pGH (specifically the GABOB) and cortisol?!

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  1. pGH (specifically the GABOB) and cortisol?!


    GABOB has been shown to elevate not only HGH, but prolactin and cortisol....this cant be beneficial..Others studies conclude that it 'improves' amounts of HGH, prolactin, and cortisol...whatever that means.

    GABOB is one of the ingredients in pGH


  2. Some people say that gh gives them prolactin related-sides. I would use 7-Keto DHEA and perhaps melatonan at night. That should control the cortisol.

    Then perhaps add vit B-6 to address prolactin.

    bb
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    GABOB has been shown to elevate not only HGH, but prolactin and cortisol....this cant be beneficial..Others studies conclude that it 'improves' amounts of HGH, prolactin, and cortisol...whatever that means.

    GABOB is one of the ingredients in pGH
    virtually every GH-related product will cause this, including GH. check the pubmed studies. you can use high-dose B6 to help with prolactin, but the cortisol bump will be harder to manage. i honestly doubt any OTC supplement will be able to abate it - the two pathways seem linked (GH and cortisol) although i'm not clear on the specifics.

    i retain lots of water on GH, and many others do too...pretty much a sure sign of cortisol/corticosteroid action, in the absence of other water-related factors (salt increase, estrogen, etc)...

  4. good ideas. I use p-5-p as a safer alternative to high doses of B6, and I usually use Relora for cortisol control and (retain 2 in pct).

  5. I am a fan of DHEA and I believe there is probably additional benefits to 7-Keto beyond cortisol control. But I think whatever potential problems you might have are easily controllable.

    Keep us posted.

    bb
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by babyblu View Post
    I am a fan of DHEA and I believe there is probably additional benefits to 7-Keto beyond cortisol control. But I think whatever potential problems you might have are easily controllable.

    Keep us posted.

    bb
    I know that retain-2 should not be run indefinitely, HOWEVER i believe that a combination of Relora, 7-keto DHEA/ DHEA and lots of Vit.c CAN be run all year. I would resort to something like Retain 2 for after suppressive cycle when cortisol would likely skyrocket.

    could 7-keto be used with DHEA? or should one or the other be used

  7. Eric from primordial performance seems to think that phosphatylserine is the best cortisol support you can get

  8. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Eric from primordial performance seems to think that phosphatylserine is the best cortisol support you can get
    except in the doses needed it=$$$$$$$$$$$$$ up the wazooo

  9. he has said thru his supplier I think it was 800mg of active a day for $50 a month kind of range

  10. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    he has said thru his supplier I think it was 800mg of active a day for $50 a month kind of range
    yea thats not ridiculous. Wish I knew his supplier.

  11. I dont know why you couldnt run 7-keto w/regular DHEA

    bb

  12. check out the debate on supplement section regarding 11beta hydoxysteroid dehydrogenase

    i think the water bloat is from messing with that enzyme either 11bHSD1 or 11bHSD2 in kidneys, kinda like how if you take lots of licorice you get water retention because mineralcorticoids get over abundant

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineralcorticoid

    "Aldosterone and cortisol have similar affinity for the mineralocorticoid receptor however, glucocorticoids circulate at roughly 100 times the level of mineralocorticoids. An enzyme exists in mineralocorticoid target tissues to prevent overstimulation by glucocorticoids. This enzyme, 11-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type II (Protein:HSD11B2), catalyzes the deactivation of glucocorticoids to 11-dehydro metabolites. Licorice is known to be an inhibitor of this enzyme and chronic consumption can result in a condition known as pseudohyperaldosteronism." from that link

    GH reduces cortisol through inhibiting 11bHSD1 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ractPlusDrugs1

    another
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

    i actually dont hear alot of people suffereing from prolactin sides and water retention and fat from GH use, ive always heard about fat loss and all the good stuff

    so what solarus is saying is news to me. that kinda sucks, i was looking for sides free alternatives to androgens.

    however i haven't searched pubmed for GH and prolactin yet, nor have i seen any studies where they looked at GH and 11bHSD2 in other organs (kidneys).




    oh man not this enzyme discussion again.....

  13. Quote Originally Posted by comacho View Post
    i actually dont hear alot of people suffereing from prolactin sides and water retention and fat from GH use, ive always heard about fat loss and all the good stuff

    so what solarus is saying is news to me. that kinda sucks, i was looking for sides free alternatives to androgens.

    however i haven't searched pubmed for GH and prolactin yet, nor have i seen any studies where they looked at GH and 11bHSD2 in other organs (kidneys)......
    water retention on GH is actually really common. check on more "conventional" boards, you'll see it reported very often.

  14. Solarus, i checked out outlaw, intersting stuff, so it has to be mineralcorticoids related sides since there is no other hormones involved (test to estro etc)

    pudzian, you are on pGH currently aren't you? how do you like it so far? any sides? any gains?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by comacho View Post
    so what solarus is saying is news to me. that kinda sucks, i was looking for sides free alternatives to androgens.
    for what it's worth, i think IGF-LR3 is just that. it aint anadrol, but it's got virtually nil drawbacks, if you can afford it. i sure wish there was a precursor/potentiator to IGF like there are so many to GH (arginine, gaba, ghb, baclofen, clonidine, etc etc)...

  16. Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    for what it's worth, i think IGF-LR3 is just that. it aint anadrol, but it's got virtually nil drawbacks, if you can afford it. i sure wish there was a precursor/potentiator to IGF like there are so many to GH (arginine, gaba, ghb, baclofen, clonidine, etc etc)...
    GH is a precursor to IGF-1 in the sense that increased GH usually leads to increased IGF-1

    and no I am not currently on pGH. I start once I fine tune my diet. So 1 or 2 weeks. I have used it before, and DID notice water retention. however, upon cessation the water came off and I was DEFINITELY leaner.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    GH is a precursor to IGF-1 in the sense that increased GH usually leads to increased IGF-1
    i know. perhaps you missed my point.

    GH increases (whether exogenous or otherwise) tend to bring with them undesirable ancillary effects....forearm pain, uneasy sleep (not everyone), water retention...aside from the muscular effects that are likely mediated by IGF-1...what i was getting at was it would be nice to be able to isolate the IGF-1 effects, without the other stuff.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by SOLARUS View Post
    i know. perhaps you missed my point.

    GH increases (whether exogenous or otherwise) tend to bring with them undesirable ancillary effects....forearm pain, uneasy sleep (not everyone), water retention...aside from the muscular effects that are likely mediated by IGF-1...what i was getting at was it would be nice to be able to isolate the IGF-1 effects, without the other stuff.
    yea, but in the long run GH seems to work better than just IGF-1. (even if just looking at it from a muslce-gain standpoint) From what I have seen, read etc

  19. Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    yea, but in the long run GH seems to work better than just IGF-1. (even if just looking at it from a muslce-gain standpoint) From what I have seen, read etc
    Agreed 100%. You can run a mg of igf a week and you wont see your skin smoothen & soften as the wrinkles run away and you look 5-10yrs younger. I have heard of guys having their gray hair darken on gh. GH also supports natural test production. Improves bone density. Fat loss. Etc. Does a lot that igf doesnt do.

    bb

  20. time for me to buy some GH then

  21. Quote Originally Posted by babyblu View Post
    Agreed 100%. You can run a mg of igf a week and you wont see your skin smoothen & soften as the wrinkles run away and you look 5-10yrs younger. I have heard of guys having their gray hair darken on gh. GH also supports natural test production. Improves bone density. Fat loss. Etc. Does a lot that igf doesnt do.

    bb
    which is a great reason to keep it highly elevated with the use of secretagogues * (spelling)....unless one can afford synthetic GH $$$$

  22. Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    which is a great reason to keep it highly elevated with the use of secretagogues * (spelling)....unless one can afford synthetic GH $$$$
    Agreed.

    bb

  23. Actually GABOB's action on cortisol should be beneficial since too low cortisol (as induced by high GH levels) can lead to tendonitis and such. Really low cortisol should be considered only in contest preparation.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    Actually GABOB's action on cortisol should be beneficial since too low cortisol (as induced by high GH levels) can lead to tendonitis and such. Really low cortisol should be considered only in contest preparation.
    good point.

    Speaking to cortisol...I would like to hear more about phosphotydylserine....maybe we could get primordial over here to comment

  25. Quote Originally Posted by babyblu View Post
    Agreed 100%. You can run a mg of igf a week and you wont see your skin smoothen & soften as the wrinkles run away and you look 5-10yrs younger. I have heard of guys having their gray hair darken on gh. GH also supports natural test production. Improves bone density. Fat loss. Etc. Does a lot that igf doesnt do.

    bb
    no offense, but if i want an opinion about automotive engineering, i dont ask a car salesman.

    i respect your viewpoint, bb, but i take all of your comments with a grain of salt, given your professional position.

    not that many guys dont love GH...they do...but it's far from perfect. i can't do it long-term because i like to be lean and hard whenever humanly possible...plus i retain gobs of water on GH and my forearms just ache 24/7. obviously it's working, but i cant handle the sides.
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