IGF1LR3 vs IGF1 RH...Yea...You know kids are on 12000mcgs of IGF1 RH a day... - AnabolicMinds.com

IGF1LR3 vs IGF1 RH...Yea...You know kids are on 12000mcgs of IGF1 RH a day...

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    IGF1LR3 vs IGF1 RH...Yea...You know kids are on 12000mcgs of IGF1 RH a day...


    The max dose of Increlex and Iplex (Recombiant Human IGF1) for kids with IGF1 deficiency is 120mcgs per kg twice daily, for a 50 KG kid, 12000mcg a day.

    Whereas we take 120mcgs(100 times less) max of IGF1LR3 which is supposedly around 2-3x more potent(we dont even know this for sure)...

    Even accounting for this, we're only taking about 300mcgs of IGF, no where near replacement levels...

    On another note I for one would really like to know how much this Iplex Increlex costs, if they can afford to run doses that by comparison to current standards are huge.

    I can pickup IGF1 RH for 50 dollars per mg, running their doses would cost me
    600 dollars a day, so if the prices of Iplex are in that range then year round treatment would cost 216000 dollars a year.

    I'm thinking Iplex is probably cheaper than this, else noone could afford treatment, meaning theirs cheap IGF avaiilible on prescription,i'mfaily sure at 10 dollars per mg, they sell this stuff in 1mg/ml 10ml bottles.

    Can anyone find out the price of Increlex/Iplex, which is a legal prescription medication which i am looking at purchasing for a small orphaned chinese boy i recently adopted who happens to have IGF1 defeciency(winks).

    Peace,

    Smileyguy

    P.S

    Orginally posted by me here:

    http:

    forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=329674

    Yea.. You know kids are on 12000mcgs of IGF1 a day... - Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com / Anabolic Review Forums[/url]

    I might have answered some objections and questions already.

    So is IGF1LR3 1000x as potent as IGF RH?

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    Quote Originally Posted by smileyguy View Post
    The max dose of Increlex and Iplex (Recombiant Human IGF1) for kids with IGF1 deficiency is 120mcgs per kg twice daily, for a 50 KG kid, 12000mcg a day.

    Whereas we take 120mcgs(100 times less) max of IGF1LR3 which is supposedly around 2-3x more potent(we dont even know this for sure)...

    Even accounting for this, we're only taking about 300mcgs of IGF, no where near replacement levels...

    On another note I for one would really like to know how much this Iplex Increlex costs, if they can afford to run doses that by comparison to current standards are huge.

    I can pickup IGF1 RH for 50 dollars per mg, running their doses would cost me
    600 dollars a day, so if the prices of Iplex are in that range then year round treatment would cost 216000 dollars a year.

    I'm thinking Iplex is probably cheaper than this, else noone could afford treatment, meaning theirs cheap IGF avaiilible on prescription,i'mfaily sure at 10 dollars per mg, they sell this stuff in 1mg/ml 10ml bottles.

    Can anyone find out the price of Increlex/Iplex, which is a legal prescription medication which i am looking at purchasing for a small orphaned chinese boy i recently adopted who happens to have IGF1 defeciency(winks).

    Peace,

    Smileyguy

    P.S

    Orginally posted by me here:

    http:

    forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=329674

    Yea.. You know kids are on 12000mcgs of IGF1 a day... - Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com / Anabolic Review Forums[/url]

    I might have answered some objections and questions already.

    So is IGF1LR3 1000x as potent as IGF RH?
    Very interesting. Can I have a link to the exact studies regarding the use of 12000mcgs of IGF-1 (mecasermin) a day for Increlex (Iplex is no longer sold)? The only information I can find for Increlex dosage is Increlex should be given in doses of 40 to 80 mcg/kg for children under 2, and then increased until the child is about 132 pounds.

    However, in clinical studies, the mean total IGF-1 (ng/ml) for these children after mecasermin administration (shown on the Increlex website) only reaches about 238 and then drops slowly over about an eight hour period or so, making the product ineffective compared to 2 iu's of rHGH. I know you are looking for information on IGF-1 lr3 and not rHGH, but if 1mg of rHGH equals 2.7 iu's of HGH, almost double the HGH of a healthy 16 year old boy who has about 400 ng/ml IGF-1 levels on average, then how can 12mg of pure rhIGF-1 be less effective at raising serum IGF-1 levels then 1mg of rHGH which converts to IGF-1? Could it be that Increlex contains a total of 5 different ingredients per dosage, making the IGF-1 concentration low? I have no idea, so I would really like to see the 12000mcgs study.


    Also, this was taken from another forum regarding how much the prescription costs:
    Increlex is generally available for approximately $550 per 40 mg vial (the vials can be extracted from more than once, unlike Iplex). The resultant cost for each month at full (maintenance) dosage for the example above (a 132-pound, or 60 Kg, person) at the usage rate of 11 vials monthly minimum, is $6000. It is very important, therefore, to successfully negotiate with your insurance carrier. We have done so, as I have already mentioned.

    Edit:
    Here is a link with someone still relevant prices for Increlex:
    Tercica - Investors - Tercica, Inc. - Tercica's Increlex Pricing Provides a Significant Competitive Advantage

    Also, the mega-doses of IGF-1 were used with patients that have ALS and GH deficiency problems, and not healthy adults; healthy adults respond differently to treatments than the sick. 40mcg of IGF-1 lr3 in a healthy adult could be sufficient for noticeable change, whereas a hypothetical 12mg dose of IGF-1 could be the bare minimum required for change in ALS and GH deficient individuals. What we need are studies comparing the results of IGF-1 lr3 at a 40mcg or so dose in healthy individuals to have something to look at instead of more anecdotal evidence.
    Last edited by shamank; 02-04-2008 at 07:29 PM. Reason: More information
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamank View Post
    Very interesting. Can I have a link to the exact studies regarding the use of 12000mcgs of IGF-1 (mecasermin) a day for Increlex (Iplex is no longer sold)? The only information I can find for Increlex dosage is Increlex should be given in doses of 40 to 80 mcg/kg for children under 2, and then increased until the child is about 132 pounds.

    However, in clinical studies, the mean total IGF-1 (ng/ml) for these children after mecasermin administration (shown on the Increlex website) only reaches about 238 and then drops slowly over about an eight hour period or so, making the product ineffective compared to 2 iu's of rHGH. I know you are looking for information on IGF-1 lr3 and not rHGH, but if 1mg of rHGH equals 2.7 iu's of HGH, almost double the HGH of a healthy 16 year old boy who has about 400 ng/ml IGF-1 levels on average, then how can 12mg of pure rhIGF-1 be less effective at raising serum IGF-1 levels then 1mg of rHGH which converts to IGF-1? Could it be that Increlex contains a total of 5 different ingredients per dosage, making the IGF-1 concentration low? I have no idea, so I would really like to see the 12000mcgs study.


    Also, this was taken from another forum regarding how much the prescription costs:
    Increlex is generally available for approximately $550 per 40 mg vial (the vials can be extracted from more than once, unlike Iplex). The resultant cost for each month at full (maintenance) dosage for the example above (a 132-pound, or 60 Kg, person) at the usage rate of 11 vials monthly minimum, is $6000. It is very important, therefore, to successfully negotiate with your insurance carrier. We have done so, as I have already mentioned.

    Edit:
    Here is a link with someone still relevant prices for Increlex:
    Tercica - Investors - Tercica, Inc. - Tercica's Increlex Pricing Provides a Significant Competitive Advantage

    Also, the mega-doses of IGF-1 were used with patients that have ALS and GH deficiency problems, and not healthy adults; healthy adults respond differently to treatments than the sick. 40mcg of IGF-1 lr3 in a healthy adult could be sufficient for noticeable change, whereas a hypothetical 12mg dose of IGF-1 could be the bare minimum required for change in ALS and GH deficient individuals. What we need are studies comparing the results of IGF-1 lr3 at a 40mcg or so dose in healthy individuals to have something to look at instead of more anecdotal evidence.
    Good post.

    As far as i know there are no studies that have been performed with 12000mcgs of IGF1.

    I only know that 120mcg/kg is the highest dose recommended by Tercica.

    Thus for a bodybuilder of 100 kg his dose would be 12,000 mg.

    I was just using the figure to drive home the relatively massive quantities of IGF that are being used.

    However according to your post, in biological terms it seems the amount of IGF being used is not particularily potent, raising IGF to less than half what 2.7 i.us of HGH would do.

    (any idea what 12.i.us of jintropin would do for IGF? any studies with higher doses of HGH showing how much they increase IGF levels?)

    I thought that HGH triggered the production of IGF from the liver, rather than directly converting

    I was not aware Increlex contained other ingredients, but if it is dosed at 1mg/ml, here must be 1 mg of rh IGF per ml, i doubt tercica would ad ingredients that make the IGF less effective, do you know what these ingredients are?

    Going by the above evidence there is much to suggest an inferiority of rh IGF1 by comparison to HGH.

    I would not think that having ALS could possibly effect the physiological dynamics of exogenous IGF compared to a person without ALS.

    However exogenous IGF may effect IGF deficient individuals differently as their illness already lies within this system.

    IGF1LR3 would have to be very very much more potent than rh IGF, in the magnitude of hundreds if not thousands and i don't see how it could be.

    Sadly there have been no in vivo experiments on IGF1LR3, that could be compared to IGF, all we have in anecdotal evidence, with many claiming good and many claiming no results and everything in between.

    For systemically raising IGF levels i say IGF1LR3 is bunk atth doses used, but i'm open for evidence of site specific effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smileyguy View Post
    Good post.

    As far as i know there are no studies that have been performed with 12000mcgs of IGF1.

    I only know that 120mcg/kg is the highest dose recommended by Tercica.

    Thus for a bodybuilder of 100 kg his dose would be 12,000 mg.

    I was just using the figure to drive home the relatively massive quantities of IGF that are being used.

    However according to your post, in biological terms it seems the amount of IGF being used is not particularily potent, raising IGF to less than half what 2.7 i.us of HGH would do.

    (any idea what 12.i.us of jintropin would do for IGF? any studies with higher doses of HGH showing how much they increase IGF levels?)
    The highest amount of rHGH used at once I've ever heard about was 10 i.u.'s bursts after work out along with AAS, and supposedly it was amazing. However, most people can't handle anything more than 6 i.u.'s a day due to the side-effects, so I can't imagine anyone being able to double the dose for more than a week because of joint pain.

    I regards to what 12 i.u.'s of jintropin would do for IGF-1, it would do nothing since the owners have been arrested, and the company shut down, making whatever you can find now being sold as jintropin, junk.

    I thought that HGH triggered the production of IGF from the liver, rather than directly converting
    That's right. Since I can ramble on when I write, I tried to simplify the statement that IGF-1 production by the liver is dose dependent on the amount of HGH by using the word "convert," sacrificing accuracy for brevity. This sloppy linguistic error aside, the math is still correct, which is what matters.

    I was not aware Increlex contained other ingredients, but if it is dosed at 1mg/ml, here must be 1 mg of rh IGF per ml, i doubt tercica would ad ingredients that make the IGF less effective, do you know what these ingredients are?
    It could be less effective due to the purity of the rhIGF-1 since a higher purity means a lot more money. Plus, they're allowing parents at home to inject their children with rhIGF-1 so they might be erring on the side of caution. What's important to me is that in their own studies, the serum IGF-1 levels still remained low right after treatment despite what sounds like a large dose of IGF-1 being administered.

    Increlex is an aqueous solution comprising of:

    Mecasermin
    benzyl alcohol
    sodium chloride
    polysorbate
    acetate


    Going by the above evidence there is much to suggest an inferiority of rh IGF1 by comparison to HGH.

    I would not think that having ALS could possibly effect the physiological dynamics of exogenous IGF compared to a person without ALS.

    However exogenous IGF may effect IGF deficient individuals differently as their illness already lies within this system.
    Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis is a neurodegenerative disease that is exasperated by immune system and DNA defects and enzyme abnormalities which greatly hinder the bodies ability to heal and maintain itself, which is what IGF-1 helps do.

    Basically, if your body has a problem using IGF-1, you're going to need repeated mega-doses just to try and get back to a bare minimum normal.


    IGF1LR3 would have to be very very much more potent than rh IGF, in the magnitude of hundreds if not thousands and i don't see how it could be.
    This assumes that ALS and GH deficient patients who genetically have difficulty utilizing rhIGF-1, use absorb rhIGF-1 the same as healthy people do, therefore the 12mg of rhIGF-1 is a reasonable dose, and that's a faulty comparison. Healthy people with no genetic abnormalities have absolutely no need for 12mg of rhIGF-1 to just to survive. Healthy people can and do survive on a lot less, making the amount of IGF-1 lr3 used a lot less than 12mg.

    Sadly there have been no in vivo experiments on IGF1LR3, that could be compared to IGF, all we have in anecdotal evidence, with many claiming good and many claiming no results and everything in between.

    For systemically raising IGF levels i say IGF1LR3 is bunk atth doses used, but i'm open for evidence of site specific effect.
    All we have right now is brosearch on the use of IGF-1 lr3 which is muddled by dosage and the quality from the supplier, and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

    As for me, just to muddle it some more, I've run a couple of IGF-1 lr3 cycles and I noticed the site specific change in STRENGTH towards the end of the cycle and into the next month. It was ok, nothing to write home about. I may try a low 10 to 20 mcg a day cycle since the people who do that uniformly say fantastic things, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I'm just willing to experiment a bit since I'm too curious for my own good.

    However, I got to say, if you really want to raise serum IGF-1 levels, don't bother with Increlex of IGF-1 lr3; just get rHGH. 4 i.u.'s a day for 6 months always bring anti-aging, healing, and some muscle building results for every one. It's probably cheaper too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamank View Post
    The highest amount of rHGH used at once I've ever heard about was 10 i.u.'s bursts after work out along with anabolic steroids, and supposedly it was amazing. However, most people can't handle anything more than 6 i.u.'s a day due to the side-effects, so I can't imagine anyone being able to double the dose for more than a week because of joint pain.

    I regards to what 12 i.u.'s of jintropin would do for IGF-1, it would do nothing since the owners have been arrested, and the company shut down, making whatever you can find now being sold as jintropin, junk.



    That's right. Since I can ramble on when I write, I tried to simplify the statement that IGF-1 production by the liver is dose dependent on the amount of HGH by using the word "convert," sacrificing accuracy for brevity. This sloppy linguistic error aside, the math is still correct, which is what matters.



    It could be less effective due to the purity of the rhIGF-1 since a higher purity means a lot more money. Plus, they're allowing parents at home to inject their children with rhIGF-1 so they might be erring on the side of caution. What's important to me is that in their own studies, the serum IGF-1 levels still remained low right after treatment despite what sounds like a large dose of IGF-1 being administered.

    Increlex is an aqueous solution comprising of:

    Mecasermin
    benzyl alcohol
    sodium chloride
    polysorbate
    acetate




    Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis is a neurodegenerative disease that is exasperated by immune system and DNA defects and enzyme abnormalities which greatly hinder the bodies ability to heal and maintain itself, which is what IGF-1 helps do.

    Basically, if your body has a problem using IGF-1, you're going to need repeated mega-doses just to try and get back to a bare minimum normal.




    This assumes that ALS and GH deficient patients who genetically have difficulty utilizing rhIGF-1, use absorb rhIGF-1 the same as healthy people do, therefore the 12mg of rhIGF-1 is a reasonable dose, and that's a faulty comparison. Healthy people with no genetic abnormalities have absolutely no need for 12mg of rhIGF-1 to just to survive. Healthy people can and do survive on a lot less, making the amount of IGF-1 lr3 used a lot less than 12mg.



    All we have right now is brosearch on the use of IGF-1 lr3 which is muddled by dosage and the quality from the supplier, and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

    As for me, just to muddle it some more, I've run a couple of IGF-1 lr3 cycles and I noticed the site specific change in STRENGTH towards the end of the cycle and into the next month. It was ok, nothing to write home about. I may try a low 10 to 20 mcg a day cycle since the people who do that uniformly say fantastic things, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I'm just willing to experiment a bit since I'm too curious for my own good.

    However, I got to say, if you really want to raise serum IGF-1 levels, don't bother with Increlex of IGF-1 lr3; just get rHGH. 4 i.u.'s a day for 6 months always bring anti-aging, healing, and some muscle building results for every one. It's probably cheaper too.

    I'm on 10 i.u (not 12. i.u) ED Jin, i live the UK, they are still shipping here, the US is attempting to indict some members of Gensci however, but still up an running, just no shipping to the US, as far as i know...

    I'm confident my stuff is real, as i am starting to get carpel tunnel, i am thinking of reducing dose to 4 I.U's however and running long term as you suggested, i concluded 4 I.U's may be the most cost effective dosage.

    I generally agree with your conclusions.

    I however have a predictament, i am running HGH, but am trying to decide between adding rh IGF 1 or IGF1LR3.

    I can purchase 3 times the amount of rh IGF for the cost of LR3 and i don't know which would be better for the money.

    Any ideas on which would be the most effective?
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    Quote Originally Posted by smileyguy View Post
    I'm on 10 i.u (not 12. i.u) ED Jin, i live the UK, they are still shipping here, the US is attempting to indict some members of Gensci however, but still up an running, just no shipping to the US, as far as i know...

    I'm confident my stuff is real, as i am starting to get carpel tunnel, i am thinking of reducing dose to 4 I.U's however and running long term as you suggested, i concluded 4 I.U's may be the most cost effective dosage.

    I generally agree with your conclusions.

    I however have a predictament, i am running HGH, but am trying to decide between adding rh IGF 1 or IGF1LR3.

    I can purchase 3 times the amount of rh IGF for the cost of LR3 and i don't know which would be better for the money.

    Any ideas on which would be the most effective?
    I'm glad to hear that it sounds like you got some of the good stuff, and 4 to a max of 8 i.u.'s will be plenty depending on age and what you're taking it for, as long as you give yourself 6 months at least for the rHGH to do it's work.

    I think someone on this forum has the .PDF's of the U.S. indictments against Gensci that have come out recently. From what I understand, China is allowing the U.S. to take a hard-line stance on the importation of HGH, steroid powders, etc. . ., to help clean up their image before the Olympics, and the U.S. knows that after the Olympics the Chinese government is going to go back to their "what? huh?" foreign trade policy, so they're trying to get whoever they can now while they can still get them. After the Olympics it's probably going to be back to business as usual, but hey, seriously, good for you man on getting some jintropin.

    Anyways. . .I know exactly the place you're considering getting your IGF-1 from, and they're good people, so the source being bad isn't a problem. However, I would still recommend the IGF-1 lr3 because, despite being 3 times more expensive, you know exactly how it works in your system and you have a lot more community support regarding its use. With the rhIGF-1, I don't know if it binds with IGFBP3 like the IGF-1 you naturally produce does, because if it doesn't, it only lasts about 20 minutes making it fairly useless. If it does bind with IGFBP3, then it's a great deal and you just have to take double the amount you would with IGF-1 lr3, which means you save money. With me though, I'm not going to inject myself with anything unless I know exactly how it's going to work, so I would go with the IGF-1 lr3.

    For my edification, how long will you take your current dosage of 4 i.u.'s of rHGH, will you take the IGF-1 along with the rHGH, and how much IGF-1 do you plan on taking?

    Oh, and where abouts in the UK are you? I am considering moving to Scotland because it looks gorgeous unlike the endless, flat, concrete skies of Chicago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamank View Post
    I'm glad to hear that it sounds like you got some of the good stuff, and 4 to a max of 8 i.u.'s will be plenty depending on age and what you're taking it for, as long as you give yourself 6 months at least for the rHGH to do it's work.

    I think someone on this forum has the .PDF's of the U.S. indictments against Gensci that have come out recently. From what I understand, China is allowing the U.S. to take a hard-line stance on the importation of HGH, steroid powders, etc. . ., to help clean up their image before the Olympics, and the U.S. knows that after the Olympics the Chinese government is going to go back to their "what? huh?" foreign trade policy, so they're trying to get whoever they can now while they can still get them. After the Olympics it's probably going to be back to business as usual, but hey, seriously, good for you man on getting some jintropin.

    Anyways. . .I know exactly the place you're considering getting your IGF-1 from, and they're good people, so the source being bad isn't a problem. However, I would still recommend the IGF-1 lr3 because, despite being 3 times more expensive, you know exactly how it works in your system and you have a lot more community support regarding its use. With the rhIGF-1, I don't know if it binds with IGFBP3 like the IGF-1 you naturally produce does, because if it doesn't, it only lasts about 20 minutes making it fairly useless. If it does bind with IGFBP3, then it's a great deal and you just have to take double the amount you would with IGF-1 lr3, which means you save money. With me though, I'm not going to inject myself with anything unless I know exactly how it's going to work, so I would go with the IGF-1 lr3.

    For my edification, how long will you take your current dosage of 4 i.u.'s of rHGH, will you take the IGF-1 along with the rHGH, and how much IGF-1 do you plan on taking?

    Oh, and where abouts in the UK are you? I am considering moving to Scotland because it looks gorgeous unlike the endless, flat, concrete skies of Chicago.
    My friend i live in England, but i also have wished to move to scotland, the times i visited it seemed a special place, it's certainly beautiful.

    If if it the case that exogenous rh Igf does bind to igfbp's then this would make something like increlex a remarkably cheap alternative to IGFLR3, working out at $13.75 per mg.

    We're also assuming here that the reasons for Increlex ineffectiveness was that the patients were ill and not the medications being ineffective in healthy individuals.

    In anycase, i may go for IGFLR3 in conjunction with rh IGF, running equal amounts of both.

    I have been running 10 i.u's 6/1 for a month now and i expect i will run 4 I.Us of GH for as long as i have access to affordable GH and i will run 100-200 mcg of IGF(rh or lr3 or both) in 20-30 day cycles.

    SG
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    Quote Originally Posted by smileyguy View Post
    My friend i live in England, but i also have wished to move to scotland, the times i visited it seemed a special place, it's certainly beautiful.

    If if it the case that exogenous rh Igf does bind to igfbp's then this would make something like increlex a remarkably cheap alternative to IGFLR3, working out at $13.75 per mg.

    We're also assuming here that the reasons for Increlex ineffectiveness was that the patients were ill and not the medications being ineffective in healthy individuals.

    In anycase, i may go for IGFLR3 in conjunction with rh IGF, running equal amounts of both.

    I have been running 10 i.u's 6/1 for a month now and i expect i will run 4 I.Us of GH for as long as i have access to affordable GH and i will run 100-200 mcg of IGF(rh or lr3 or both) in 20-30 day cycles.

    SG
    Sorry about taking so long to reply, but can I offer a word of advice regarding the IGF-1 cycle you are planning? I don't want to come off as a know-it-all, but it looks like, from a cost effective standpoint at least, that you're going to be using too much rh or lr3 IGF-1. Your IGF-1 receptors can only use so much IGF-1, and after the activation of the tyrosine kinanse receptor, the resulting phosphorylation that causes the cytoplasmic end of the receptor to open up takes time and also requires a little time to recover fully, thus the degradation of IGF-1 receptors caused by ED use with high dosages and IGF-1 (rh or lr3) eventually going unused in the body. In my opinion if you want to use a large dose of IGF-1, and I'm not the end-all-be-all of this subject, would be to finish your rHGH cycle and then take up to 120mcg E3D of IGF-1 lr3 (50 x3 E3D of rhIGF-1) at the absolute max, or, preferably, take 20 to 40 ED of IGF-1 lr3 (30 x3 ED of rhIGF-1) for an absolute max ED protocol. I personally think you should use lower dosages PWO for a longer period of time to make sure there are no sides and your IGF-1 receptors stay healthy, but if you want to go for the max, I would say those dosages are the limits. Also, you're not wasting any money on IGF-1 that won't be used by your body. But that's just me and you don't have to follow a single thing I say. I'll get off my high horse now.

    Also, just FYI in case you didn't know, the source you plan on getting your IGF-1 sends their IGF-1 already reconstituted in acetic acid. Most people don't have a problem with that since the peptide should remain stable as long as shipping doesn't encounter any major problems, but some people refuse to research anything that doesn't come in a powder ready to be reconstituted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamank View Post
    Sorry about taking so long to reply, but can I offer a word of advice regarding the IGF-1 cycle you are planning? I don't want to come off as a know-it-all, but it looks like, from a cost effective standpoint at least, that you're going to be using too much rh or lr3 IGF-1. Your IGF-1 receptors can only use so much IGF-1, and after the activation of the tyrosine kinanse receptor, the resulting phosphorylation that causes the cytoplasmic end of the receptor to open up takes time and also requires a little time to recover fully, thus the degradation of IGF-1 receptors caused by ED use with high dosages and IGF-1 (rh or lr3) eventually going unused in the body. In my opinion if you want to use a large dose of IGF-1, and I'm not the end-all-be-all of this subject, would be to finish your rHGH cycle and then take up to 120mcg E3D of IGF-1 lr3 (50 x3 E3D of rhIGF-1) at the absolute max, or, preferably, take 20 to 40 ED of IGF-1 lr3 (30 x3 ED of rhIGF-1) for an absolute max ED protocol. I personally think you should use lower dosages PWO for a longer period of time to make sure there are no sides and your IGF-1 receptors stay healthy, but if you want to go for the max, I would say those dosages are the limits. Also, you're not wasting any money on IGF-1 that won't be used by your body. But that's just me and you don't have to follow a single thing I say. I'll get off my high horse now.

    Also, just FYI in case you didn't know, the source you plan on getting your IGF-1 sends their IGF-1 already reconstituted in acetic acid. Most people don't have a problem with that since the peptide should remain stable as long as shipping doesn't encounter any major problems, but some people refuse to research anything that doesn't come in a powder ready to be reconstituted.

    Sounds like you know what your talking about, i'll do day on day on day off at the most.

    Thanks again,

    SG.
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    My son is 13 and is on Increlex. He is about 4'9"" and weighs 75 lbs soaking wet.

    When he was about 8 he participated in a study using HGH and grew at a great clip. Once off, he fell back to his 1/2" to 3/4" per year.

    On Increlex he is not growing much better than when not on therapy. However, his Growth Hormone levels are not low enough to get approved for HGH by the insurance company. He only qualifies for Increlex because his body doesn't produce enough IGF-1 from this supposedly adequate supply of HGH.

    It's very strange/frustrating that using HGH works, but using a replacement dose of the very substance that the body creates from HGH, or IGF-1, doesn't work for him.

    It's also dissapointing to my son because he is quite an athlete, but doesn't see the fruits of his skills because he's 1/2 the size (literally) of most of his teammates.

    Wish I knew the solution...Doc has even said that HGH might be the better choice for him but won't prescribe due to the insurance issue...even if we agree to go outside of the isnurance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheje View Post
    My son is 13 and is on Increlex. He is about 4'9"" and weighs 75 lbs soaking wet.

    When he was about 8 he participated in a study using HGH and grew at a great clip. Once off, he fell back to his 1/2" to 3/4" per year.

    On Increlex he is not growing much better than when not on therapy. However, his Growth Hormone levels are not low enough to get approved for HGH by the insurance company. He only qualifies for Increlex because his body doesn't produce enough IGF-1 from this supposedly adequate supply of HGH.

    It's very strange/frustrating that using HGH works, but using a replacement dose of the very substance that the body creates from HGH, or IGF-1, doesn't work for him.

    It's also dissapointing to my son because he is quite an athlete, but doesn't see the fruits of his skills because he's 1/2 the size (literally) of most of his teammates.

    Wish I knew the solution...Doc has even said that HGH might be the better choice for him but won't prescribe due to the insurance issue...even if we agree to go outside of the isnurance.
    Coadministration of rIGF-1 + IGFBP appears to create more growth than IGF-1 alone.

    In addition rIGF-1+GH appears to work as well because GH "provides" the binding protein concurrently.

    "Co-administration of IGF-I with either GH (Kupfer et al., 1993) or IGFBP-3 (Bagi et al., 1995) can, in certain circumstances, enhance IGF-I activity."
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Coadministration of rIGF-1 + IGFBP appears to create more growth than IGF-1 alone.

    In addition rIGF-1+GH appears to work as well because GH "provides" the binding protein concurrently.

    "Co-administration of IGF-I with either GH (Kupfer et al., 1993) or IGFBP-3 (Bagi et al., 1995) can, in certain circumstances, enhance IGF-I activity."
    hmmm...b-b-b-b-b-b-lack m-m-m-m-m-arket?
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheje View Post
    hmmm...b-b-b-b-b-b-lack m-m-m-m-m-arket?
    Insmed's IPLEX (Mecasermin rinfabate) is a complexed rhIGF-1/IGF1BP3. Tercica's Increlex (Mecasermin) is just rhIGF-1 alone.

    Mecasermin rinfabate: rhIGF-I/rhIGFBP-3 complex: iPLEX
    Authors: Williams, Rachel M1; McDonald, Anna1; O'Savage, Martin2; Dunger, David B1

    Source: Expert Opinion on Drug Metabolism and Toxicology, Volume 4, Number 3, March 2008 , pp. 311-324(14)

    Abstract:

    Background: Mecasermin rinfabate (iPLEX), comprising rhIGF-I complexed to rhIGFBP-3, was developed in an attempt to prolong the half-life of IGF-I and potentially reduce side effects. It is administered as a once-daily subcutaneous injection. Treatment with rhIGF-I has been explored in a number of growth and endocrine disorders. Objective: To review the published literature regarding the pharmacokinetics, safety profile and clinical efficacy of Mecasermin rinfabate. Methods: A comprehensive search via the NCBI PubMed portal was performed using the search terms rhIGF-I/rhIGFBP-3 complex, iPLEX and Somatokine. Results: The effects of Mecasermin rinfabate have been explored in a number of clinical situations including diabetes, severe insulin resistance, osteopaenia, burns and growth hormone insensitivity syndrome, with outcomes similar to those of rhIGF-I alone. Conclusions: The biological effects of Mecasermin rinfabate are largely similar to those previously reported with rhIGF-I. There are little published data pertaining to pharmacokinetic properties in human subjects, and the side effect profile appears similar to that of rhIGF-I alone.
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