- 09-13-2007, 11:21 AM
I would like to hear some people's opinion on the use of Insulin as an anabolic aid.
1.) have you used it (which type)? If so provide overall description of use (w\gear, standalone etc.)
2.) Length of use
3.) doses used. (when, how often, etc)
5.) side effects or worries
6.) would you use it again?
- 09-13-2007, 02:31 PM
I use Humalin-R (fast acting.)
I've used it for 19 years.
I use about 125 iu's a day.
Everyone says I gain better because I can keep my bloodsugar lower when needed.
Im a diabetic sorry I just had to do it!
Honestly though if you dont have to do it like I do I wouldnt mess around with it.
- 09-13-2007, 03:31 PM
09-18-2007, 02:38 PM
Just placed an order for a vial of Humalog. Will be starting my first trial with it later this week. I'll be running Hexatropin (1 syringe ED for 5 days, then 2 days off) and IGF concurrently. Granted the Hex won't be as effective as real GH, but it's all I can afford at the moment.
I'll only be taking the slin 3 days a week PWO. Starting out low at 3 iu's and gradually increasing to 10 iu.
09-26-2007, 01:33 AM
My take on slin for non-diabetics is that if you are not on gear then dont bother. Yes it is anabolic but that goes as much for adipose tissue as well as muscle. If you are chemically enhanced it makes some sense that you have to enhance your body's energy uptake abilities as well. If you are natural, your own slin output should be more than adequate for the task - IMO taking it under natural circumstances entails risk for little reward.
09-26-2007, 11:38 AM
09-26-2007, 12:53 PM
IMO insulin is a much more complicated hormone than what the BB community gives it credit for. Its purpose is not so much blood glucose regulation, though that is a effect that it has. More so it is the body's energy uptake throttle.
At basal levels, insulin simply maintains basic energy functions. At intermediate levels in the absence of substantial circulating fatty acids (ie after a low fat meal) it tends to encourage glycogen uptake and protein synthesis. At a certain point the body's capability for this gets maxed out. At higher insulin levels and/or there are high levels of fatty acids it encourages progressively more body fat storage.
If you are non diabetic then you should have no problem achieving those intermediate levels with your natural production. If you want to maximize muscle and strength naturally without consideration for body fat I would just eat more at every meal instead of taking exo slin PWO with a giant, high GI meal. After all the body builds muscle round the clock, not just PWO.
If you are on a heavy gear cycle then it is possible that your protein synthesis capacity is increased to the point where your natural slin production cannot keep up the erquired energy supply. In that case, there is now room for exo slin to contribute to LEAN gains.
09-26-2007, 04:13 PM
I've never used insulin but i intend to try it in the future, but i wouldn't use it without gh or igf-1 to help keep the fat at bay. Also if your considering using insulin i'd atleast try something liek a Anabolic Pump+P-slin stack first. I have buddies who do run insulin and many are finding the above stack quite comparable.
09-26-2007, 05:02 PM
Yea Im not going to mess with insulin just yet.This thread was just out of curiousity. I've started my cycle. Im at the end of day three. I will be making a log\journal thread once I get around to it. I am still just trying to get used to everything.
Question: I workout at night around 8:15. I finish training around 9:15 and at that point have shot my IGF-1 50mcg bilat into muscles just worked. I immediately follow that up with 75-85g dex\malto, 5g glutamine and 10g creatine. Ever since I have started my cycle Ive felt run down and weird. I think it has someting to do with the IGF, its not really like genuine "andro-flu" symtoms. I spurts of tiredness, overheating, neausea, and a headache. I think it could be becuase my blood sugar levels are fluctuating. This occurs during the day as well. Is it safe for me to be taking IGF at night when I go to sleep around 12. The last thing I would want to do is go hypo in my sleep.
09-26-2007, 10:10 PM
09-27-2007, 09:21 AM
I've definately noticed the same thing. I eat a bit more carbs per meal and also sip on juice or gatorade or someting like that between meals becuase I feel ****ty and the sugars help.
10-16-2007, 01:20 PM
This is my third week using 10 iu's after every workout, but I'm not juicing and only hit the gym three days a week. Gains? So far I'm a lot hungrier and have gained 3 lbs. Not great, but at least I'm certain to keep it all. I rarely feel hypo taking 10, so I'm considering upping the ante and taking 10 the morning after my workout too.
I don't know about other slin's, but it is recommended to throw out Humalog 28 days after it's been opened. This includes puncturing the top with a needle. That sucks! I won't even use 1/6 of the vial, probably even less. The expiration date is like 12/08. Does anyone think it would still be ok to use after a month? I paid ~$50 bucks for it, I hate to waste it.
10-16-2007, 01:24 PM
no clue about throwin it.... but if those gains are lean than thats definitely sick man
10-16-2007, 02:41 PM
Yep, very lean. I used the calipers to measure my abdominal fat last night and there was no change since the last time I used them about a month ago. I do make sure my PWO meal has the least amount of fat possible though. Insulin is just effective at shuttling fat as protein and other nutrients.
10-16-2007, 04:48 PM
10-16-2007, 08:23 PM
"The storage of insulin is a complex, highly regulated process. Eli Lilly and Company must comply with standards imposed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), as well as standards established by other regulatory agencies, such as The United States Pharmacopeia (USP), both in the U.S. and abroad. The USPDI (United States Pharmacopeia Dispensing Information) states that an insulin bottle in use may be kept at room temperature for up to one month. The CPMP recommends an in-use vial of any aqueous preserved sterile product, which includes insulin, be used within 28 days. The reason is that the risk of germs getting into your insulin can never be fully eliminated. Lilly believes that storage recommendations should be the same no matter where you are in the world. Therefore, Lilly suggests that you throw away an in-use vial after 28 days."
Ok, so I guess my question has been answered, but I still hate to waste the sh1t!
10-16-2007, 10:39 PM
So it is a possible contamination issue not an expiry of the insulin itself. Probably just Eli Lilly being overly cautious to avoid liability...
10-17-2007, 07:09 AM
Yeah, you're right. I'm going to keep using my vial for at least another month.
10-23-2007, 08:54 AM
10-23-2007, 12:50 PM
I am planning on using it for the very first time in my November-December bulking cycle, which will go like this:
Weeks 1-3 Dbol, 60mg ED
Weeks 1-8 Test, 1,400mg/week (Prop and Cyp at first, then just cyp)
Weeks 1-8 Nandrolone, 700mg/week (NPP)
MAYBE - Weeks 1-8 Boldenone, 1,400mg/week (Transdermal, probably not available to me)
Weeks 6-8 Superdrol, 30mg ED
GH, 10iu immediately postworkout *IM* in muscle trained (3x week)
Humalog, 10iu immediately postworkout *IM* in muscle trained (3x week)
With about 5,000 to 6,000 calories a day, we'll see how it all goes. I think I should be good for a few pounds, with my insane training and rest...
Actually I am about to start a thread on turning my scrawny 215lb body into a very much behemoth-like icon of shredded massiveness that makes his way into the professional ranks. Yes.
10-23-2007, 05:10 PM
10-23-2007, 05:17 PM
10-25-2007, 12:12 PM
I do love the IGF-1 between cycles and currently my money situation encourages me to save the IGF-1 for "post cycle" which will be a 6-week, 350mg Test cruise with 6iu ED of GH. And a good deal of IGF-1. YUM.
After that, it will be another short but intense blast. Maybe a cut if the bulk doesn't end up being fairly clean, or a recomp, or even another bulk depending on my condition when I get there.
The boldenone was attempted in there to help appetite and RBC although I feel it does very little for me. I still entertain some hope that 1,400mg of the stuff will do SOMETHING. It was to be added to the cycle but it's no biggie if I don't get to use it, since its effects are SO mild in me anyway.
Thread should be up by about November 2-3 or so, I will link this thread.
10-25-2007, 12:22 PM
not to throw the thread.. but what about pslin/AP with igf? anyone tried it?
10-25-2007, 04:34 PM
10-27-2007, 08:12 PM
grunt. Im trying to send you a PM but your inbox is full
10-29-2007, 01:02 PM
Well my objective is turning pro before 2009 is done with. Lofty for sure, yet I feel there is a possibility of my making that happen in 2008, although slim.
I need HRT anyway, but it is interestingly hard to get here when your T levels are 190 or so as in my case. At T = 50 no problem, but when you are below the minimum normal range, but only so by a slim-ish margin, they don't prescribe it, or at least resist doing so as much as they can. My doc said to me "no wonder you feel like ****" and when asked what we will do about it he replied "another test in 6 months" ... And then 6 months later, when my T levels were a bit lower again, he said the same thing. So I self-prescribe HRT and am done with it.
Although I may attempt a real PCT after my major cycling of 2007-2008. I have been on since early March and intend on being on until late 2008 (November or so). Yeah so that is a bit more than 18 months of blast & cruise. I am 40 now, so of course if I will turn pro, NOW is the time and no dicking around doing time on + pct = time off, which is the safest route, but I have no time for that, and very little HPTA reason for doing so anyway.
So my plan is to compete in late 2008 at above 230lbs shredded to the bone. This means I must add about 35lbs of LBM (Maybe just 25 actually but let's be conservative) and of course cut it down to shrink-wrap definition levels.
I feel that insulin MAY be able to help me reach this goal although I personally don't see the rationale behind using exogenous insulin. I still believe that FOOD is the limiting factor of AAS effectiveness and that extra insulin is only a substitute for more food, with the dangers that obviously ensue. Still, I am willing to explore its virtues although theoretically if you eat 15,000 calories, your body should be able to make enough insulin to deal with that much food, so exogenous supplementation SHOULD theoretically not be needed at all.
I feel I can easily take in 7,500 calories, no problem. Either way, I will experiment with insulin and we will see.
10-29-2007, 01:58 PM
10-29-2007, 02:30 PM
So take your time and instead of having to up the ante after turning pro, you will already be doing serious damage upon stepping on your first pro stage. Otherwise you will be slowing yourself down, overall. I feel that anyone only has so many competitions in them, and actually total hold-able LBM and number of competitions are sort of the same thing. The more competing you do, the more you lower your ceiling and vice-versa. That is just a theory of course.
10-29-2007, 05:00 PM
On the other hand. I feel that constant fluctuation between gaining weight and loosing weight (off season, and contest prep ) Is a learning experience both for the mind and body. It takes time to know what my body can do, or how to do it (cut or gain.) The fact that alot of guys start competing young could give them an edge because they are that much closer to having their plan figured out. Also a theory of mine is. It may make it easier to gain weight and to cut fat when the body is used to doing so and thereby being tricked up often. For someone like me, who has trained consistently for about 5 years, always within the same bf% margin (give or take 3-5%) my body is now used to that, making it much harder to cut fat, and gain muscle. If I were to go through phases of cutting and then bulking, It would trick my body up and possibly make it more responsive to the actions I place upon it. I dont know how true that is, but just throwin it out there. I do wish to wait until I feel confident in my physique, and have my first comp be a high level comp, but I dont want to wait forever. I'll see how things go I suppose
10-29-2007, 05:02 PM
Grunt and others:
what do you think of taking a 5-10IU (depending on tolerance; once assessed) . PWO, intramuscularly in the muscle worked? I kno w there are now known significant site specific properties, but slin would hit faster IM, and would therefore clear faster. I only want it to be working PWO and up to an hour or so thereafter when I eat another meal. After that, endogenous insulin production should replace the exo.
10-29-2007, 07:08 PM
10-29-2007, 07:09 PM
10-29-2007, 08:53 PM
Only thing I've heard against IM injects are that the uptake isnt quite as linear. I don't see why, I would think it depends on the blood flow to the muscle, if the muscle was just worked, its pumped, and it should hit FAST. I suppose thats why people go sub-Q stomach, not nearly as much blood-flow. what do you advise? my first 2 shots or so will probably be sub-q just to test initial tolerance.
(without first hand experience, and going by theory), I would think, the faster it hits and clears, the better off I would be in preventing delayed onset hypo, excessive fat storage, endogenous suppression-overhyped I believe, etc)---all assuming I don't wait to get carbs in me PWO...
would it be better to drink half the shake first, shoot IM then finish the shake? or would that mess up my natural insulin spike and-or production cycle.
11-09-2007, 03:19 PM
okay. I got my humalog in the mail today. I will be starting it tomorrow after my arm workout. I will start with 2IU. Debating between starting IM or going sub-Q until I'm more comfortable with it. IF going IM I will either pin shoulders all the the time, or pin IM in the muscle worked (not becuase I believe it has site enhancing properties) but just to rotate sites.
Any thoughts on the IM vs subQ. I want it to hit hard for the purpose of PWO and the meal 1 hour later, but after that I'd like it to be clearing. SO to me this means the faster it hits the faster it will clear...therefore IM may be best. I do not know from experience though...
11-09-2007, 03:51 PM
Many experienced slin users report that it does clear more quickly when used IM. Is there any reason to believe that insulin does NOT have any local effects?
11-09-2007, 04:30 PM
11-16-2007, 07:36 PM
first week with slin is done. I went 2.5IU the first day, then a day off, then 5IU the third day, then 8IU the fourth day, and today I shot 10IU. I progressively increased my protein and carb intake with the shot. Today I had about 120g carbs in a 1 part malto- 2 parts dextrose ratio with about 65g protein. Slin sucks this right UP!!!. (15g creatine too). If I ate that normally PWO I'd be soo bloated and fat within a day. I am taking HCA with the slin and no fat after the slin until I go to sleep. I workout around 5 and shoot around 6:15. So I make sure not to go to sleep until about 12 or 12:30. (just to be safe). I monitor any symptom of hypo, and occasionally I chew on a glucose tab or sip on some Jones Root beer (sweetened with pure cane sugar not HFCS).
I can literally see myself getting slightly bigger and more full by the day.
I have heard that one should not take slin more than 3-4 times per week, and in cycles of about 4 weeks. I am only using 10IU PWO once a day. Would it be safe to shoot it 5 times per week (I train 5 days out of 7) M T Th F S.... so its not like 5 consecutive slin shots. Just wondering...I'd rather take less risk if the one day is going to make that much of a difference.
11-18-2007, 11:12 AM
I think 3 times a week is the right spot in terms of risks/benefit ratio. 5 times a week seems to be just asking for diabetes...
11-18-2007, 02:28 PM
I wonder if dependence would really be an issue even at 4 times per week though...my thoughts are its only one insulin response out of many in the day.....on the other hand, the body may get accustomed to not having to secrete as much insulin when x amount of food is taken at y time each day... (PWO-since I workout at about the same time everday)...Ill play it safe with 3 days per week.
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