Igf-1 Lr3 Dosing Protocol Post Your Opinon\experience
- 09-05-2007, 09:52 PM
Igf-1 Lr3 Dosing Protocol Post Your Opinon\experience
I'm Trying to distinguish between the Every Day, Every Other Day, or Every 3rd Day injection protocols for IGF-1. The theories are all sound that argue for one way or another but I would like to hear peoples results. If you have tried one or more of these methods please say:
2.) which method
3.) what dose
4.) how long on
5.) with anabolics?
- 09-05-2007, 10:45 PM
1.) WHY - To avoid permagut and continue dosing indefinitely
2.) which method - bilateral IM EOD
3.) what dose - 50mcg
4.) how long on - 2 months
5.) with anabolics? - No
6.) results - Have not taken any measurements, but results are plainly visible. Fat lost and lean muscle gained.
- 09-05-2007, 11:07 PM
I am about to start a 14 week injectable cycle. I was planning on using IGF-1 for the first 4 weeks and then again in post cycle therapy. I will be training 5 days a week while on my cycle. How should EOD be incorporated into a 5 day split? Did you adjust your workout schedule to accommodate the IGF-1
On the same token if EOD dosing is to maximize the amount of time on while minimizing the side effects, would ED dosing (every workout day) for say 4 weeks at a clip be ideal?
09-05-2007, 11:36 PM
bump. i've been wondering this myself. after reading around it seems that the general consensus for an ED dosing protocol for IGF is to cycle 25 days on, then 25 off, followed by 25 on again. in your case this would work very well, as the first 25 days would cover almost the first month of your cycle, and the next 25 day run would be almost near post cycle therapy time.
still, i'm curious as to how people have dosed IGF-1 in this context and what the results were.
09-05-2007, 11:50 PM
ED is best for noticeable gains. i've done quite a few cycles and EOD or E3D is fine and dandy, but i don't believe it's the way to go. 80--120mcg ED is where it's at in my opinion... 4-5 weeks max. i didn't see squat until i hit the 80mcg mark... and e3d was a waste of my time. eod was marginal AT BEST.
gains also come down the road as new cells mature. it's noticeable that gains are easier a few months after IGF. not dramatic, but very steady. stack with test and gh if possible. if not, just test baby!
09-06-2007, 12:00 AM
there are pros and cons to both. rh IGF-1 may be localized, but at the same time it will only affect the area where you pin it, so if you were to pin it in your upper chest it will only affect that area of your upper pec, not your total pec. whereas if you were to pin long IGF-1, you will essentially cover the entire area of the muscle... however, won't the residual long IGF just spill over into your system til it finds another receptor... which may possibly be your intestines? that's the only thing i'm afraid of.
09-06-2007, 08:00 AM
In a few weeks Im going to run a Mon/Wed/Fri split for 6 weeks.....3 weeks superdrol & 3 weeks P.C.T. @ 50mcg (25 bi-lateral)
While Im on Im going to pin chest, shoulders, and bi's
P.C.T. will be Quads, Calves, tri's.
I've gatherd from searching a few boards and old threads, I think this will be most benifical as the first 3 are my lagging parts and the P.C.T are my stronger areas.
Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
09-06-2007, 08:19 AM
09-06-2007, 08:25 AM
Every 3rd Day
1.) I've heard IGF will activate the receptor for 72 hours. I've done it 2x per week and 4x per week and didn't notice any difference with the results. Might as well just use less and save yourself a third of the cost (IGF is expensive)
2.) Bilaterally, every 3rd day, immediately post workout
3.) 20mcg x 2 shots
4.) 6 weeks
5.) It was done during PCT
6.) Leaner. Continuing to grow between cycles. Faster Recovery during PCT.
Athletic Xtreme Rep
Ask me about the Athletic Xtreme Product Line
09-06-2007, 10:15 AM
it seems a lot of guys think of IGF1 as something you should notice like an anabolic steroids cycle. but i feel it is much more subtle and long term as far as far as impact and results.
i agree a lot w/Sinner's point of view.
if you use a high dose and frequency it will feel more like its working because you get more of the hypo sides and pumps and such, but at the same time you risk a greater degree of negative sides. also, i believe at a high dose you will be wasting a lot of it since it only takes a very small amount to hit the muscle receptors you want to hit. it seems with peptides - more isn't always better even though it may feel like it is. this stuff is new and in research phase for a reason - we don't really know what it can do long term to the body. i think it would be safer to take too little than too much.
i didn't feel or notice much during a low dose E3D cycle and after 4 weeks i thought i wasted my money. but now 2 months later i am seeing results i can't explain. pinned bis, tris, and delts. they are all bigger and i'm lighter!
btw. i did change my workout routine around to make sure i was able to pin the muscles i wanted to hit.
09-06-2007, 05:05 PM
09-06-2007, 05:11 PM
My other question was that I will be doing a 16 week injectable while using IGF. see cycle plans in thread "Possible Safe-ish cycle ideas." My thoughts were to use it at 40mcg PWO Every Training Day (4-5, probably 5) days a week. for 4 weeks, then off again for four weeks, then on again from weeks 8-12(maybe) then off again for weeks 12-16 and then on again for the first 4 weeks of post cycle therapy.
This was all outlined using the theory that if using IGF that many timesweek then the cycles should be kept to 4 week lengths to avoid growing organssevere downregulationgh shutdown etc.
Now ON paper and in reality thats alot of IGF. If people like the sinner would recommend only using 40mcg EOD or E3D then using it 5 daysweek is quantitatively ALOT more IGF floating around in the body.
Maybe it would be best to use less of a dose like 20-30 mcg Every Training Day for these 4 week cycles.
What do you suppose the best way to get maximum results from IGF-1 while ON cycle and Post cycle in my particular situation is??.
09-06-2007, 06:30 PM
Except for AM.com, most of the other user feedback I have read is done at much higher dosage (100mcg ED or even more) and the feedback has been pretty good with little complaints of sides. Its sort of a "use it to see how you react to it" kind of thing.
I know that Jomi was only using something like 30mcg and experienced some intestinal growth. I have seen other guys post logs of 100mcg+ with no reports of GH gut. Granted I trust the AM.com members a hellava lot more than I do members on other boards.
09-06-2007, 07:13 PM
09-06-2007, 08:49 PM
as said before lrIGF stays active and floating around in your system for up to 72hrs. so it's not necessary to pin daily.
seems that every day users of igf have reported diminishing returns after only a few weeks as receptor sites become resistant.
eod or e3d users have reported being able to prolong their use for a month or longer with continued benefit.
but i'm primarily an advocate of lower dose - longer use due to the cost alone. i can't afford to run the higher every day doses that some experiment with.
one other thing - i think gh gut is irreversible. once you grow your intestines they are your large intestines for life. let me know if i'm wrong here.
09-06-2007, 08:53 PM
09-06-2007, 09:02 PM
09-06-2007, 10:47 PM
09-06-2007, 10:48 PM
09-07-2007, 01:37 PM
1.) WHY- to catch up on lagging body parts
2.) which method- mon, wed, fri (worked out mon-fri)
3.) what dose- 30/30
4.) how long on- 4 weeks
5.) with anabolics?- during pct
6.) results- no change in weight or body fat, but seemed to have kept my gains better than usual
09-08-2007, 10:20 PM
hypothetically, if you were to run IGF-1 as a separate cycle, or as a pre-cycle to PH or steroid cycle, what's the likelihood that those new baby myoblast cells will survive and mature into adult muscle cells? i know this is why IGF is typically run in conjunction with an anabolic steroid cycle, b/c the steroids will mature the cells at an even faster rate
09-08-2007, 10:47 PM
"also i can tell you from firsthand knowledge that many pros never even used GH except for breifly precontest until ~ 99 or so, when the serostim kits started popping up all over the place so guys could start using an effective dose without going broke.
i had a friend who supplied alot of pros with their hGH back during the serostim boom and you would be amazed at the names of guys who had no idea how to even use the stuff because it was their first time and they never had a chance to run it before because it was simply cost prohibitive.
remember, to those guys who are pros, its a business, and why spend $4iu humatrope and increase the cost of their contest prep by 3-400% for a very small increase in results.
does anyone have any studies linking increased igf and intestinal growth???? i would think that would mean permanent growth that would remain even when they stop training... and from what ive seen that just is not the case....
when guys quit competing and get smaller, their "gh gut" usually shrinks in proportion as well and they end up looking like your bigger than average guy, like dorian.
that seems to support my theory that you can only get so big and pack so much muscle on your frame especially for guys like ronnie, markus etc.... your gonna add thickness everywhere including your midsection.... and the reason why ronnie still looks like he has a gut even though he is "lean" is due to the fact he is cramming so much size on his frame regardless of bodyfat.
basically, you have to draw your personal line in the sand as far as aesthetics/mass goes..... if you dont want the "gh gut" look, then dont do the things that are closely related to it or if you are, stop them.
one thing ive noticed is that gaining large amounts of mass over a few short blasts seems to cause GH gut as compared to gaining the same amount of muscle mass slowly over a longperiod"
10-02-2007, 06:11 PM
very interesting. thanks for sharing NBE.
coming from a very knowledgeable vet it means something as i'm sure he has much more experience than i w/this stuff.
however, it is still just pure bro science.
fact is, there isn't much scientific data on the long term impact of igf supplementation use in humans. the real answer is "we don't know".
10-21-2007, 06:39 PM
I take like 80-100 mcg bi lat after training then 40 mcg eod, i take with large doses of anabolic steroids and get outstanding size gains, last time i was on it i got 11 lbs every 2 weeks, i did 2 on 2 off with great success.
10-21-2007, 07:20 PM
10-23-2007, 06:14 PM
10-24-2007, 07:42 AM
Bump. Lots of good stuff here. I've dosed at 20mcg post workout, 3days a week and noticed better gains down the road after about a month or two. Going for 40mcg post workout soon.
Feel better all around though while on, strange. Anyone else have this effect?
10-24-2007, 10:42 AM
10-31-2007, 12:48 AM
1.) WHY: Because I've tried it in almost every combination/dose you can think of!
2.) which method: 3X week
3.) what dose: 60 mcgs divided into 3 separate shots. 20 mcgs PWO, 20 mcgs following morning, 20 mcgs mid day!
4.) how long on: I've done 4 weeks; 6 weeks; 4 on 2 off 4 on; 3 months non-stop. 4 on 2 off worked best FOR ME!
5.) with anabolics: With AAS, HGH Insulin; w/ HGH & insulin and w/ Clomid; HCG, proviron PCT!
6.) results: Most noticeable results came when used in conjunction w/ AAS, GH, Slin! I was able to increase calories significantly w/out gaining any bodyfat!
11-01-2007, 11:35 PM
12-25-2007, 01:50 AM
Can some one tell me the shelf life of un mixed/un opened sealed package of 7 vials of serono Serostim 6mg. The expiration date on the box is 04/02 but I was wondering if it was still potent enough to use since still sealed in box? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
12-25-2007, 09:02 PM
igf is meant to be used post workout no more than 3x a week. you should not expect to gain immediate muscle mass off igf. i read so many threads where people claim igf did nothing for them in their 4 week cycle. this is not true as it takes time for the cells you created to mature. all in all i feel it takes 6-9 months of proper eating and training for one to realize igf's full potential. the longer you are on the juice the faster easier it is for this to take place.
i came to this conclusion because after a cycle i used to drop down to about 220-224 after being around 235 "on". i did a igf lr3 cycle ( 4 weeker 40 mcg bi laterally on body part trained) and ran a long cycle which i got as high as 247. Now when i am off or cruising on low hrt doses i weigh around 230-233. i feel the igf is what add the permanent weight gain. i will know for sure as i plan to do this again soon.
12-26-2007, 04:40 PM
i typically use 20mcg PWO with a combination of EOD or E3D (i have only run 1mg so far total and i weigh about 180-190lbs) depending on my workout schedule that week, i definately get noticable effects from this, subtle but noticable, one thing i recenlty noticed is that i was forced to take about a month straight off from the gym where i was working 14+ hours a day and eating garbage, and surprisingly i kept my size much much better then i ever have before during gaps in my training. it just seems that after running igf my bodies base weight that it is comfortable with is higher since i usually drop weight quite rapidly, i also find it great in that i can eat almost whatever i want when on IGF and it doesn't seem to go to fat. this next IGF cycle i'm going to run it with GHRP6 then take a few weeks break and run it with tren/test. so should be awesome
also seems like you should be able to take igf here and there whenever you want, as opposed to steroids where you obviously cant just take a shot whenever you want.
12-26-2007, 07:51 PM
12-27-2007, 01:08 PM
yeah, thats why i only use 20-40mcg split up between 2 or four muscle groups, would rather go on the lower dose side with these experimental peptides.
i have been noticing lately that my sleep isn't as fulfilling/resting lately since i've been on IGF this time. i'm wondering if the IGF is suppressing my normal GH and messing with my sleep patterns, i'm still dreaming and all, it just seems like it takes later in my sleep to start dreaming (i wake up from dreams now after 7+ hours of sleep) and i dont feel very rested when i wake up. could be because i'm training harder now, but i thought it was interesting, i guess i'll find out when i throw some GHRP6 in the mix!
the stuff is great between cycles too, i hate that feeling that i'm "wasting my time" between cycles since progress goes back to normal, IGF helps deal with the mental ups and downs of cycles for me, even if i only pin twice a week at 20mcg it just makes it easier between cycles.
01-22-2008, 01:25 AM
01-22-2008, 07:35 AM
01-22-2008, 11:06 AM
01-22-2008, 07:41 PM
I think years ago Bobo felt he would get just as much out of 20mcg as 40mcg & said 20mcg would be his dosing scheme.
Dave Palumbo talks about 11mcg per day for 30 days w/ 2 weeks off then back on for 30days , off for 2 weeks and 30days on again.
The only downside is you will have to buy a box of 100 pins.
But seriously think about it...even 10mcg per day is going to more than double your normal IGF output. If you more than double your levels of IGF for 3 months it will have a consistent positive effect in building strength & some muscle or even preserving muscle on a diet.
People spend a lot of money on supplements just to get a small increase in IGF...they do heavy stretches under load, D.C. stretches etc. hoping to trigger a little more IGF release. So a vial of IGF-1 & a box of insulin pins is cost effective when you figure you will be able to maintain a higher level of IGF for a quarter of the year.
I've been using 10mcg IGF per day for the last 7 weeks. I've used small doses of Nettle Root (250mg taken 3 times per day) to slightly increase my free test. Plenty of BCCAs...but nothing hormonal. I've made very good gains in strength over that time (50+ pounds on my deadlift) and I've been lifting for 20+ years so there are no longer "easy" gains to be had.
So I give low dosing schemes
01-27-2008, 03:50 PM
I agree with DatBtrue. I think that less over a longer period of time is not only 'healthier', but considerably more efficient and will yield a better net result.
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