Herniated Disc ~ Young unknowledgable Individual

[OCCFan023]

Preface : Need help and advice
Posted that in the general section and it goes over all whats going on, and luckily made my way over here thanks to Crunch.

I was doing a little research on some other threads and came across this (back injury IGF-1?)
Werewolf I wanted to point out this part of your post: "What this says is combination of HGH (or booster) (for platelet-derived growth factor) and IGF-1R3 would be strong choice to help heal disks. I have more, but this is the easiest to understand."

I am completly novice in this area and never thought I would have to be looking into this but it appears this could help me with my goal (as seen in the preface.)

Is IGF-1 or IGF-1R3 (never even heard of this one) a possiblity for myself, would it be safe? Any information on the possibility of aiding in my recovery would be much appreciated (both regarding IGF and the like substances or supplements more common such as BCAAs)

I really appreciate any help you guys can offer, Id rather discuss it here and see some quality information than wondering if what Im reading of google is legit.

[PHWSSJ]

first, a herniated disc is a mechanical problem. Only therapy or surgery can fix that. Second igf does not do anything for discs.
Pretty much nohing can help your discs except the above.
the only other thing i can think of i stem cell.. but thats still being researched and experimented.

[OCCFan023]

Well it is a mechanical problem as the physical touching of the jelly is putting pressuring on the nerve, but the rupture in the disc's cartilage is what I was seeking information on IGF for. Im already undergoing physical therapy (so hands on stretching, electircal treatment, traction) and am going to start epirdural injections to get the jelly back inside the disc. The disc rupture site though needs to heal and could be benefited by the use of IGF-1R3 and potentialy HGH with it (as seen in the link above). This is what I interpreted from the reading I did in some other threads and why Im so curiouse as to its effectivness, Im not sure if IGF would have no impact on healing.

[OCCFan023]

BUT GRUNT WHAT ABOUT GROWTH FACTORS!?!?!?

Ah, ye good olde growth factors. Yes, they can play a very major role in such a situation. As a matter of fact, so can AAS.

GH: Injected either sub-Q or, even better, LOCALLY, it will help regenerate the disc more quickly.
IGF-1: Pretty much the same as with GH, only it is reconstituted in acetic acid, which makes injecting it near your spine a problem
Oxandrolone: Is a potent collagen synthesis and cross-linking (up)regulator
Nandrolone: Same as Oxandrolone
Boldenone: Ditto
Testosterone: As with all other AAS, it WILL inhibit the effects you are looking for, even at what we consider small doses, so I say forgo them entirely during this rehab cycle unless you want to be at it forever.

Now, let me be very clear on this, as I cannot insist on this too much:


The disc must go back to its original place and shape, and it is now like an open tennnis ball, very soft. It cannot take any pressure at all, it just collapses on itself. It can only regenerate if it keeps its original shape and place for long enough for healing to happen.

Avoid *ALL* pressure on your spine for 2 months, do the exercises as described here and take the growth factors and hormones, you will do great.

Found this while searching old threads and it has alot if not everything to do with what I am looking for. The only real question I have is if this is a feasible approach for someone like myself and also do I need to wait until I know that the jelly has gone back into the disc before I even think about taking any growth factors or would taking it now still be benficial (I was worried the disc would heal without the jelly returning back into the disc?)

[PHWSSJ]

discs dont regrow that is fact ask ans spine specialist or neurologist.
If you have a rupture your screwed unless you plan on being sedentary, but if you play any contact sports or lift weights then you will have the same problem again IF you can fix the original rupture....i dont recomend the steroid injections because they actually make your disc weaker. The only way to really fix it is either spinal fusion or artificial disc replacement.

[PHWSSJ]

you can give this a try it has worked wonders for me, i have degenerative discs.. its pricey but worth every penny.

DRX9000 Spinal Decompression
Prior to the recent advances in Spinal Decompression technology NO curative treatment was available for Degenerative Disc Disease. Treatments aimed at symptomatic relief only include physical therapy, anti-inflammatory medication, chiropractic care, home exercises, bed rest, narcotic pain medication, muscle relaxant medication, anti-depressant medication, epidural steroid injections and nerve blocks. The main surgical intervention has been to eliminate the disc entirely and fuse the bones above and below the disc together – cervical fusion or lumbar fusion surgery. Unfortunately, the success rate of this surgery is notoriously poor and repeat surgery rates approach 100% approximately 7 years following the initial surgery. Disc Replacement Surgery is still several years away from general use and initial results have been less-than-favorable.

DRX9000 Spinal Decompression reverses the ravages of Degenerative Disc Disease by slowly and methodically separating the bones of the spine thereby reducing pressure within the spinal discs. During treatment pressure within the disc is reduced from approximately 25 millimeters of mercury (25 mmHg) to approximately 200 millimeters of mercury BELOW ZERO (-200 mmHg). This negative pressure forces water, oxygen and nutrients to diffuse INTO the disc thereby rehydrating the degenerated disc. Repeated spinal decompression treatments retract the gelatinous core (Nucleus Pulposus) back to the center of the disc. Recentering the nucleus pulposus relieves direct pressure on the nerve caused by the disc degeneration.

The Spinal Decompression treatment motion is computer controlled to provide gentle and painless decompression of the injured spinal discs. The DRX9000 Spinal Decompression Unit incorporates an advanced treatment technique that slowly separates the bones of the spine while preventing protective muscle spasm from hindering the treatment. This decompression motion cycles between brief moments of separation and relaxation, known as oscillation, creating the pumping action necessary to re-hydrate the disc. The decompression is targeted to a specific disc level unlike outdated “traction” techniques that merely “pulled” the entire spine. This is accomplished by changed the Angle of Distraction. The natural curvature of the cervical spine and lumbar spine makes it possible to direct the decompressive distraction exactly perpendicular to the targeted disc by changing this Distraction Angle. This DRX9000 innovation makes the treatment far more effective than other existing techniques AND more comfortable at the same time. In fact, the DRX9000 Spinal Decompression treatment is so comfortable that patients often fall asleep during the treatment!

[Grunt76]

Found this while searching old threads and it has alot if not everything to do with what I am looking for. The only real question I have is if this is a feasible approach for someone like myself and also do I need to wait until I know that the jelly has gone back into the disc before I even think about taking any growth factors or would taking it now still be benficial (I was worried the disc would heal without the jelly returning back into the disc?)

There was more to that post than what you quoted, the rest of it has to do with what you must do before doing this, and how to get the disc back to good. Read the whole post and apply it unwaveringly, it is solid gold.

[OCCFan023]

Thanks for the reply grunt, and Im sorry for making the post seem smaller than it was but I did read and take from the entire post. I am currently doing the McKenzie stretch at home, and tommorow I am going to instigate your ball on a flat bench technique when I go to the gym to do a calves, long walk, and your stretch workout (I like you exercise selections but I figure since I need to be going heavy Id rather stay away from lifting completly (except sitting calves) and just let it heal completly. Question about the stretch though, how long do you stay on the ball, do you do sets for a certain amount of time? Also do you move your legs up and down or just let them bend down?

Also had a a quick question regarding disc regeneration. Am I correct to understand that the fluid that has come out of the disc goes back in, and then they rupture in the disc itself mends? That was what I thought happened but then got a little confused.

As I said before Im starting the epdidural injections shortly so I may even try some Super Cicuss Rx to help with pain/healing propertries in the short term and then in a few weeks attempt IGF potentialy (thats the main reason I wanted to do research on it now instead of later)

I appreciate the threads and posts in various threads the info has been quite helpful in my outlook and how to get better.

[Grunt76]

At first, just remain on the ball as long as feels comfortable. Then SLOWLY, GENTLY put the weight back on your spine. If you get off the ball too quickly, you will get some pain, and if you do it gently enough, you will get no pain. That's when you know your disc is back in its proper position.

At first, don't move the legs up and down, but you can very slowly roll forward and back on the ball, to change the apex of the stretch. Only begin to move legs up and down once you are pain-free.

And then a couple weeks later you can start lifting light and gentle again.

[PHWSSJ]

OMG!!!

some people just dont listen.
do you even know what those steroid injections do???

have fun wasting your money and further weakening your disks.
i just gave you the best and only method that works to reverse the herniation...

just because i dont have 5,000 posts doesnt mean i dont know what im talking about

we will be hearing back from you in about a year with the same problem.

[OCCFan023]

Its not a matter of not listening its a matter of being told one thing by my doctor and physical therapist and another here. I dont know what these steroid injections due other than that they shrink the size of the disc or something to pull it back in. It was also my understanding that removing the disc should be the last option (but in all honesty if thats what its going to take to get back into the gym and preparing for football than maybe I should just ask about that.

I'll ask my physical therapist today about the removal of the disc but have seen people on here and other patients that have had herniated discs before and through other means of treatment have gotten better.

Your post count has nothing to do with what I take from this board its a matter or not seeing why my doctor would tell me to do something thats going to make my disc weaker?

Ill ask about the deal at physical therapy today

[OCCFan023]

I talked to my physical therapist about it and agreed that instead of the injections I would be better off going for a removal of the fluid ooutside of the disc (and yes the cartildge that tore open does heal and repair itself.) I will discuss that with the neuroseurgen on Monday. Therapist agreed this would be the quicker solution and give me a better chance at football training in the nearer future

[Grunt76]

It's all ugly. Doctors simply don't know how to repair these injuries. It is a sad state of affairs.

[OCCFan023]

It's all ugly. Doctors simply don't know how to repair these injuries. It is a sad state of affairs.

So really theres really no clear choice favorite? To be honest the whole thing has my mind spinning. I have my doctor telling me to get the epidural before surgery, then I hear surgery would be a solid plan for a faster recovery (not the removal of the disc neccesserily maybe just part of it,) now it seems theres no winner anyway really? I'm going in for a consult on Monday and at the moment I dont know what to go in rather doing (the epidural or the surgery.)

I guess I have to assume its case by case (the MRI stated Large disc protrustion to the right side) and the severity is what is pushing me away from just physical therapy healing it (although the two other bulges will benefit from it.)

I dont what to expect on Monday, I guess Ill report back on what happens and what the neurosurgeon suggests becuase despite P/T and non-activity it feels like its getting worse rather than better.

[PHWSSJ]

Its not a matter of not listening its a matter of being told one thing by my doctor and physical therapist and another here. I dont know what these steroid injections due other than that they shrink the size of the disc or something to pull it back in. It was also my understanding that removing the disc should be the last option (but in all honesty if thats what its going to take to get back into the gym and preparing for football than maybe I should just ask about that.

I'll ask my physical therapist today about the removal of the disc but have seen people on here and other patients that have had herniated discs before and through other means of treatment have gotten better.

Your post count has nothing to do with what I take from this board its a matter or not seeing why my doctor would tell me to do something thats going to make my disc weaker?

Ill ask about the deal at physical therapy today

you will come to find out that most doctors are scumbags that just want your money and will talk down to you and not listen to anything you have to say. They call it the god complex.

what level is your herniation?

the problem with a spinal fusion (thats when they take out the disc and fuse the two vertebre dogether) is that it compounds the pressure in the other discs because you eliminate that joint.

and no discs do not heal! I had a ruptured disc. I got a laminectomy (take out the nucleus pulpus that is sticking out)after all kinds of therapy didnt work. A year and a half later that same disc gave me problems again. WHY do you ask... because the disc does not heal. I my surgeon was one of the best neurosurgions in the world. He doesnt believe in fusions because he is an old cranky bastard. SO i asked him what am i supposed to do about this disc... he said keep having laminecomties. I gave him the finger and walked out. Goes to show you how doctors are scumbags and only care about $$$. Saw another top specialist in the country and got a spinal fusion.
I am fine now. And i am a pro fighter i train every day and have no problems.

i separated my shoulder once and my doc at the time wanted to give me cortizone... i asked him "doesnt cortizone weaken your joints?" he avoided my question. So i told him to go fck himself and said a bunch of other mean things and walked out.
They tried to make me pay for my visit and i threatened to sue their asses so they STFU and let me go.

I bet you if you go to 5 different doctors they are each going to tell you something different. That is why they call it a "practice" they are practicing at the expense of our well being and making us pay for it.

Doctors are like cops... most of them are scumbags, few of them actually do their job right and honestly.

[PHWSSJ]

and even IF igf could heal discs it would take forever because there is verry little blood supply that goes to discs. But it doesnt so it doesnt matter.

[PHWSSJ]

So really theres really no clear choice favorite? To be honest the whole thing has my mind spinning. I have my doctor telling me to get the epidural before surgery, then I hear surgery would be a solid plan for a faster recovery (not the removal of the disc neccesserily maybe just part of it,) now it seems theres no winner anyway really? I'm going in for a consult on Monday and at the moment I dont know what to go in rather doing (the epidural or the surgery.)

I guess I have to assume its case by case (the MRI stated Large disc protrustion to the right side) and the severity is what is pushing me away from just physical therapy healing it (although the two other bulges will benefit from it.)

I dont what to expect on Monday, I guess Ill report back on what happens and what the neurosurgeon suggests becuase despite P/T and non-activity it feels like its getting worse rather than better.

find a place that has the DRX9000 Spinal Decompression and go there.. its better than surgery and its better than injections.
However if you have a rupture you may need to end up having surgery. if its in the lumbar ot thorasic spine i think artificial disc replacement has been researched and experimented enough.. but you need to find out and do some reaserch yourself.
The other route would be fusion.

If you play football... and you dont eliminate that disc i will bet my house you will have more problems with that disc again in the near future 1-5 years if not sooner.

[Grunt76]

find a place that has the DRX9000 Spinal Decompression and go there.. its better than surgery and its better than injections.
However if you have a rupture you may need to end up having surgery. if its in the lumbar ot thorasic spine i think artificial disc replacement has been researched and experimented enough.. but you need to find out and do some reaserch yourself.
The other route would be fusion.

If you play football... and you dont eliminate that disc i will bet my house you will have more problems with that disc again in the near future 1-5 years if not sooner.

That spinal decompression machine works, no doubt about it.

My method imitates that very well and it is available for free in every gym out there.

[PHWSSJ]

That spinal decompression machine works, no doubt about it.

My method imitates that very well and it is available for free in every gym out there.

i would like to give it a try....

can you give me a link please Grunt76?

[Grunt76]

Herniated disks, GH, and IGF-1...