IGF-1 and T4

[testodan]

who's posting with my user name

 

[Tom 185]

I'm on IGF-1 LR-3 at 25-50mcg EOD and I'm wondering if i need to supplement with T4 or T3 like when doing GH.
Thanks.

you dont "need" to....but i've heard some talk of it possibly being synergistic....not sure of the truth behind it.....

 

[testodan]

you dont "need" to....but i've heard some talk of it possibly being synergistic....not sure of the truth behind it.....

Ha,I see,i thought it lowers thyroid hormones like GH and you must take exogenous.

 

[Marc-Antony]

you dont "need" to....but i've heard some talk of it possibly being synergistic....not sure of the truth behind it.....

Same here, I've read that T3 (remember T4/T3 conversion via 1 and 2 deiodinase) has the ability to stimulates IGF-I and expression in tissues that whereas GH has no such effect.

To OP: But, you should know that the idea behind supplementing T4 and hgh is to promote igf-1 production/sensitivity. So you may be looking it in the wrong direction. Yet, I can see how supplementing with T4 would have a synergistic effect on igf-1 via increased T3 production.

 

[Tom 185]

Same here, I've read that T3 (remember T4/T3 conversion via 1 and 2 deiodinase) has the ability to stimulates IGF-I and expression in tissues that whereas GH has no such effect.

To OP: But, you should know that the idea behind supplementing T4 and hgh is to promote igf-1 production/sensitivity. So you may be looking it in the wrong direction. Yet, I can see how supplementing with T4 would have a synergistic effect on igf-1 via increased T3 production.

hmm so which is the better choice here...t4 or t3?

 

[Marc-Antony]

hmm so which is the better choice here...t4 or t3?

At this point, I would say it doesn't matter. But, seeing that T4 is converted to T3 via iodinease, T4 is the better choice.

 

[Tom 185]

At this point, I would say it doesn't matter. But, seeing that T4 is converted to T3 via iodinease, T4 is the better choice.

are you saying T4 is a better choice in general? I have both but i have only used T4...i'm wondering if its worth trying
t3 or just sticking with T4

 

[Marc-Antony]

are you saying T4 is a better choice in general? I have both but i have only used T4...i'm wondering if its worth trying
t3 or just sticking with T4

Well if you are not using Gh to help in the conversion process, T4 is clearly less effective for losing fat, than T3, but bodybuilders who use T3 lose a lot of muscle if they aren’t using anabolics along with it- they’re not utilizing the enzyme that would regulate some of T3’s ability to stimulate protein synthesis, while they are simultaneously signaling the body to produce an inhibitory enzyme.

So T4 + GH, Anabolics + T3 ... it all depends really.

Now if you were to go with igf-1 plus Thyroid hormone ... I'd have to say T3 as T3 upregulates igf-1 receptors.
But seeing that 80% of T3 in the body comes from conversion of T4 ... T4 would be fine too. Seriously, I think that it doesn't matter with igf-1. But, I won't be to affirmative on that.

If someone else has anything to say about it, to confirm infirm my thoughts, that'd be nice.

I'll do some looking up, and see if I can come up with something, give you more info on igf/thyroid. But going with T3 means you'll shut down real quick, and your level of gh will drop.

 

[Tom 185]

Well if you are not using Gh to help in the conversion process, T4 is clearly less effective for losing fat, than T3, but bodybuilders who use T3 lose a lot of muscle if they aren’t using anabolics along with it- they’re not utilizing the enzyme that would regulate some of T3’s ability to stimulate protein synthesis, while they are simultaneously signaling the body to produce an inhibitory enzyme.

So T4 + GH, Anabolics + T3 ... it all depends really.

Now if you were to go with igf-1 plus Thyroid hormone ... I'd have to say T3 as T3 upregulates igf-1 receptors.
But seeing that 80% of T3 in the body comes from conversion of T4 ... T4 would be fine too. Seriously, I think that it doesn't matter with igf-1. But, I won't be to affirmative on that.

If someone else has anything to say about it, to confirm infirm my thoughts, that'd be nice.

I'll do some looking up, and see if I can come up with something, give you more info on igf/thyroid. But going with T3 means you'll shut down real quick, and your level of gh will drop.

ok just because im in pct right now with igf...i'm going to discontinue it for 3 weeks or so as this is my 5th week at 3x per week 30/30. I wanted to run a thyroid hormone with the igf-1 leading into my next anabolic cycle

 

[NattyNow]

i did t4 with an igf cycle and i thought it was counter-productive. i didn't get the same pumps or recovery that i usually get with igf.

you really shouldn't be on igf long enough to downreg the thyroid that much.

both gh and igf work great without messing with thyroid meds. if you really are concerned about your t3 and t4 levels you can get bloodwork done.

 

[testodan]

Guys i came with this question cause i've read(if i'm not mistaken from Nelson Montana) that when you are on GH your thyroid hormones are being lowered (from the administration of GH)so is Necessesary to supplement with.and wondering if the same happens with IGF-1.
So the issue here is the necessity of thyroid supplementation while on IGF-1 and not the possible synergism or anything else.
Think like you shouldn't run deca without Testosterone-if the same happens with IGF-1 and T4/T3. 'You shouldn't run IGF-1 without T4/T3'.What do you think?

 

[jonesboy]

i don't know if you shouldn't but i liked t3 with igf.. i should also say that igf can cause prolactin induced gyno so precautions should be considered..

 

[NattyNow]

imho you risk screwing with your thyroid more by adding t4 or t3. the down-regulation of t4 to t3 conversion is something that takes a while to happen. you aren't going to be on igf-1 long enough to really have to worry about this.

 

[jonesboy]

agree.. now if you are planning on staying on if for two cycles which could be 4 + mnths a dose of 25mcg of t3 wouldn't hurt a bit..

 

[testodan]

i don't know if you shouldn't but i liked t3 with igf.. i should also say that igf can cause prolactin induced gyno so precautions should be considered..

For prolactin we have dopaminergics such as bromocriptine not T3/T4 right jonesboy?bTW haven't heard before that IGF-1 can cause prolactin induced gyno.

 

[testodan]

Do you guys agree with when someone is on HGH only, is a must to supplemment with T4/T3 and in the case of IGF-1 is not a must,just optional and of course synergystic?

 

[NattyNow]

there are no definites. plenty of people use gh without thyroid and get great results. i am telling you what i see and know, and not rehashing some pseudo scientific jargon that the latest internet guru has coined as absolute truth.


you could run gh EOD if you really want to lessen the impact on your natural axis.

if you are that concerned about long term gh and your t3/t4 levels then you should get them tested. the test is part of a basic blood panel. it is not expensive. the test will answer your question much better than any poster's theorizing.

 

[jonesboy]

right there is no must with t3 and hgh.. low dose of t3 is ok you can run it for years and if it helps to lose to extra wieght then cool.

hgh can cause gyno due to increase igf. my gyno really got worse with igf. Pmgf really made it worse. T3 can help according to Dr. D .This was the first time i have ever had gyno.. Took awhile to get it under control

 

[justreading]

I remember grunt suggesting t3 could destroy the imature new cells proliferated by the IGF... Be carefull

 

[testodan]

right there is no must with t3 and hgh.. low dose of t3 is ok you can run it for years and if it helps to lose to extra wieght then cool.

hgh can cause gyno due to increase igf. my gyno really got worse with igf. Pmgf really made it worse. T3 can help according to Dr. D .This was the first time i have ever had gyno.. Took awhile to get it under control

What your Estradiol levels?

 

[umbro]

the downregulation of the thyroid wasn't the issue at all. He was wondering if it would up-regulate igf-1 receptors. i'm wondering this too. marc-anthony did you find anymore info on what increases igf-1 sensetivity?

 

[oswaldosalced]

"Quote Originally Posted by testodan
I'm on IGF-1 LR-3 at 25-50mcg EOD and I'm wondering if i need to supplement with T4 or T3 like when doing GH.
Thanks."


Insulin-like growth factor 1 alters peripheral thyroid hormone metabolism in humans: comparison with growth hormone

Insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) is considered to mediate some of the growth-promoting and metabolic effects of growth hormone (GH). Growth hormone treatment of healthy and GH-deficient subjects is accompanied by increased conversion of thyroxine (T4) to triiodothyronine (T3) in peripheral tissues. Whether these effects are mediated by IGF-I is unknown. To assess the respective roles of these hormones on thyroid hormone metabolism we have treated two groups of subjects. The first group consisted of eight healthy subjects who were treated with IGF-I 10 μg·kg−1·h−1 sc for 5 days). The second group consisted of eight subjects with combined GH and thyrotropin (TSH) deficiency due to acquired pituitary disease. They were treated with IGF-I (10 μg·kg−1·h−1 sc for 7 days), GH (2 IU m−2 sc q.i.d.) or both hormones together. The IGF-I treatment in healthy subjects led to an increase in free T3 (FT3) and a reduction in TSH levels, whereas FT4 and total T4 (TT4) levels remained unchanged. In the second group—in which all subjects were substituted with oral Lthyroxine—treatment with IGF-I led to an elevation of FT3 in the face of unchanged T4 levels. Growth hormone alone and GH plus IGF-I resulted in a more pronounced elevation in T3 level. The results suggest that IGF-I partially mediates the well-known effects of GH on peripheral conversion of T4 to T3. However, GH has more pronounced effects on thyroid hormones that apparently are not mediated by IGF-I.

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