Herniated disks, GH, and IGF-1...
- 05-07-2007, 10:29 AM
- 05-07-2007, 08:19 PM
I've got an L5 herniation from years ago and can't say that the gh/igf is helping that area since it's so effected by compression and heavy lifting does so much to compress the spine, and I'm lifting more because the rest of me is feeling so good.
What type of lifting do you do?
- 05-07-2007, 08:25 PM
05-07-2007, 08:29 PM
What do you guy's do as therapy to keep it from getting bad?
I'm usung Inversion Therapy where I hang from the hips to decompress the spine, this works better than anything.
I'm only 3 weeks into igf/gh so maybe someting will happen, but my other injuries are already feeling better and may back is not,
05-07-2007, 10:17 PM
That's a bummer the GH/IGF isn't helping you. What did you do to injure it?
05-07-2007, 10:20 PM
05-07-2007, 10:40 PM
One the severe inflamation is down, I would highly recomend you getting going on this inversion stuff. Not now, wait untill the inflamation subsides.
I did mine 20 years ago deadlifting and I really havent DL'ed since. I can still squat ok I'm messing around with Olympic Lifting now
Those Strongman comps can be murder since the weights you pick up are ackward & uneven.
I can't say I believe that gh /igf promotes heling, but I must believe it a bit, because I am injecting my gh IM in the front delt where I strained it!
05-08-2007, 10:36 AM
You might try the IGF locally, after you've worked shoulders, or done what you can with them. It has more of an affect that way. I don't think the GH does anything locally, so that can just be shot in the stomach skin. Give that a try.
05-08-2007, 10:47 AM
I'm putting my am gh in the front delt & the pm igf there
now if I could just reach that inflamation above the iliac crest maybe I could work on that low back problem
How are you feeling today?
as much as I hate corto(sp) steriods, a shot of depo-something as helped when the inflamation is sky high
05-08-2007, 10:53 AM
I'd say about 50% better today (thnaks for asking), which is encouraging. As I'm typing, I'm using my lifting belt to hold an ice pack against my lower back. Brrr!
Something else I did when this first happened you might want to try. Get some DMSO and crush up some aspirin in it. That works extremely well for inflamation. But your boyfriend or husband won't like it too much as you'll smell like garlic and oysters. Amazing stuff though. You will be able to taste it a little within minutes of putting it on your skin.
I'll be doing the DMSO/aspirin tomorrow if it's not 50% better again.
05-08-2007, 11:05 AM
haha................dmso does stink!
I use it all the time. I even used it for my first cycle (transdermal) a few years ago. I just used it to help heal a sprained ankle
Sitting is one of the worst things to do for a compression injury and L5 is even the worst for sitting at the computer. that is why may back is bad....i can spend 3 hours a day on the boards.
and I live alone so no one smells my stinky dmso breath!
05-08-2007, 11:35 AM
LOL! Then your free to DMSO away!! Just don't bring anyone home that your attracted to! Or put some DMSO on him. If you both stink, nobody will notice!
My wife will complain a little when I have it on, but not too bad. Sex is out of the question! Oh well, it's not like I can move arond much with my back like this anyway.
Yes, sitting is the freaking worst!! I get to move around a lot at work so I'm not sitting for too long.
After my first competition when I did this, I had a 3 1/2 hour plane ride home. Thought I was going to die! At least this was bofore 911. The flight attendant could tell something was wrong with me. After I told her, she let me stand near the plane door and brace myself against the walls to keep steady. That was a lifesaver!!
05-08-2007, 11:41 AM
I always stand in the back by the bathrooms whn I fly, I tell the stewardess before the flight takes off. I haven't flown much since 9/11. That would suck if they made you go sit down
If I was a guy thy would for think I was a perv!
Seriously look into that inversion tables
google these words: spine inversion
it will keep you in your game!
05-08-2007, 11:41 AM
05-08-2007, 11:51 AM
I've been doing the IGF for about three months now. Was doing GH also, but switched to GHRP-6 for the appetite stim.
I was hoping Grunt might have some answers or a different protocol for using the IGF with the disk injury. Haven't heard yet about that.
Somebody here at work just told me the local PT clinic has one of the inversion tables. I know all the PT's there pretty well, might see if they would let me come in and just try it out. Can't hurt to ask.
05-08-2007, 02:36 PM
Anyway, you keep talking about the inversion table. You said yours hangs you from your hips. My mom is offering one to me that hangs you from your ankles. Will that make any negative differences (aka should I take her up on her offer?).
Thanks in advance,
RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
05-08-2007, 03:38 PM
05-08-2007, 03:40 PM
Thanks for the input. I'll rep you when I can (I guess I was a rep whore last night and have none left to give out!)
RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
05-08-2007, 04:05 PM
05-08-2007, 04:11 PM
05-08-2007, 04:15 PM
05-08-2007, 04:25 PM
Yeah, mine too Maybe blow a kiss, but don't bend forward when doing it, keep your back straight!
05-08-2007, 04:30 PM
05-08-2007, 08:23 PM
Here is Grunt's herniated disc rehab procedure:
Back in my first year of lifting weights, while I was very inexperienced, I had a terrible L4/L5 disc hernia. It occured on one of the first times that I squatted 135. At the end of the set, because of inexperience, I did not expect what happened: the only way to unbend my legs was by allowing my back to bend forward. That is a pretty bad situation, which I tried to correct by arching my back. This resulted in a herniated disc that prompted my very reputable orthopaedic surgeon to state:GULP!Originally Posted by Reputable Orthopaedic Surgeon
After 3 weeks of intense pain, I was finally able to tie my shoes myself. Good because the wife had been *****ing every single time I asked her to do it for me, unable to bend down. Even though I wasn't in terrible pain anymore, I was still getting some major discomfort. No, even 2 months after the injury, the back was still quite far from feeling good. I felt handicapped all the time.
I did some research on the injury and tried to understand what could help and what not to do. With this information, I decided to go back to the gym. The main key was to NOT put ANY pressure on the injured disc. As a matter of fact, the rehab revolves around taking the pressure OFF the disc as much as possible, in order to let it regain its normal shape and place. This is easier said than done though, because there are just about no normal stretches that allow this. Moreover, finding a good stretch was KEY to my rehab, as even without any exercise at all, my bodyweight does put pressure on the disc, just sitting down or standing up.
Arms exercises remained pretty much unchanged because I was weak at the time, curling 25's doesn't put much pressure on the spine.
Chest exercises, ditto.
Abs exercises were mostly difficult and too painful so I avoided them.
Leg exercises were very difficult. The leg press, squat, hack and sissy squats were obviously out of the question, leaving some very light leg curls and extensions. My leg development suffered. I was ready to accept this for the moment though, just to make sure that my back would eventually let me get back at it full bore.
Shoulder exercises suffered greatly. No overheads, and no upright rows. There remained some front, bent-over and lateral raises. No pressing. Oh well, so be it.
Back exercises were mostly fine with some exceptions: pulldowns better than chinups thanks to greater stability, cable rows better than dumbell rows for the same reason and of course no rack pulls, bent-overs, T-Bars or deadlifts.
The gym I was at had some gravity inversion boots that allow you to hang from your ankles attached by the boots to a chin-up bar. I found out that this was the only way in which I was able to do crunches. The inverted crunches were the most effective abdominal exercise that I had EVER tried, and on top of that they gave my back a good rest. Oh joy! What a relief! For the first time ever, after doing those, I went home pain-free. Only for the pain to return in the morning, but hell, I had had a full evening without the crippling lower back pain! It was a happy moment.
After a bit, though, I had to change gyms and the new one did not have the gravity inversion apparatus, which had me searching for another stretch or exercise that I would be able to do with more standard gym equipment. And did I find it. I called it the ball-atop-bench lower back stretch and later the ball-atop-bench lower back stretch and reverse hyperextension. Hey shoot me, I'm bad with names.
You basically grab an exercise ball and put it atop a flat bench, then, putting the lower chest on the ball, reach over it to the underside of the bench. Plant the elbows into the exercise ball for good balance. You aim to put the injury at the top of the ball, and let gravity gently pull both ends of your body apart at a mild angle, giving the most optimal of stretches. Eventually I was pain-free enough that I turned the stretch into a hyperextension and even with a dumbell between my feet.
This stretch and exercise is superior to other hyperextensions for two reasons:
1. You have a wide angle in the stretch where both ends of the stretched part are supported
2. You can roll on the ball to change the point of greatest stretch very easily and comfortably.
You cannot do this on a normal reverse or normal hyperextension.
I hope reading this can help someone else rehab from the terrible injuries that are herniated discs. Here is an image of the stretch/exercise:
BUT GRUNT WHAT ABOUT GROWTH FACTORS!?!?!?
Ah, ye good olde growth factors. Yes, they can play a very major role in such a situation. As a matter of fact, so can AAS.
GH: Injected either sub-Q or, even better, LOCALLY, it will help regenerate the disc more quickly.
IGF-1: Pretty much the same as with GH, only it is reconstituted in acetic acid, which makes injecting it near your spine a problem
Oxandrolone: Is a potent collagen synthesis and cross-linking (up)regulator
Nandrolone: Same as Oxandrolone
Testosterone: As with all other AAS, it WILL inhibit the effects you are looking for, even at what we consider small doses, so I say forgo them entirely during this rehab cycle unless you want to be at it forever.
Now, let me be very clear on this, as I cannot insist on this too much:
The disc must go back to its original place and shape, and it is now like an open tennnis ball, very soft. It cannot take any pressure at all, it just collapses on itself. It can only regenerate if it keeps its original shape and place for long enough for healing to happen.If you do not AVOID ALL PRESSURE on the spine, you WILL NOT heal, no matter how much GH or whatever else you take.
Avoid *ALL* pressure on your spine for 2 months, do the exercises as described here and take the growth factors and hormones, you will do great.
05-08-2007, 08:32 PM
are you injecting into the spinal erectors close to the site as possible?
what if you use the igf that comes in 100mch vals & is reconstituted with BW, can you inject that locally?
05-08-2007, 08:36 PM
05-08-2007, 08:44 PM
so I can't just poke around back there....ok
maybe I better keep my pins away from there since there is no one here to do it for me
05-08-2007, 08:55 PM
I hit ya as promised AD...but now I can't rep Grunt!
Thanks for taking all that time to post that Grunt. It is much appreciated.
RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
05-08-2007, 09:05 PM
05-08-2007, 09:09 PM
05-08-2007, 09:15 PM
05-08-2007, 09:17 PM
05-08-2007, 09:37 PM
Good stuff, thanks Grunt.
Right now I'm doing one main stretch taught to me the first time I hurt it. It's called the McKenzie (sp?) stretch. Due to the way the herniation goes, think of mine as pointing toward my stomach. The stretch has me laying on my stomach and pushing my upper body upward. So basically I'm in a hyperextension position. This opens up the disk where it herniated and allows fluid to move back into the disk itself. That, plus LOTS of ice packs and some good chiro adjustments. It was about 50% better today than it was yesterday, and I'm hoping for another 50% tomorrow. I'm not going to do any lifting this week at all, just don't what to chance it.
Not sure I'll be able to do any site injections, as my wife will never put a needle in me. I won't be expectijng a lot of help from that direction. I do still have some GH left though, and the GHRP-6, so I'll be starting that up again tonight.
Amazon, how is your back feeling today??
05-08-2007, 09:38 PM
05-08-2007, 09:46 PM
RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
05-08-2007, 10:01 PM
05-08-2007, 10:16 PM
Okay, while I wasn't horney or amused by Grunts reply I was enlightened. It actually is something I have been looking for to help my recovery process...My reps were not wasted. I'm relieved
05-08-2007, 10:22 PM
05-08-2007, 10:25 PM
my hands aren't that large
do you know that we have managed to totally corrupt your thread!
my back is killing me and my OL coach is going to put me thru the paces tomorrow. I wish I had on of thos balls Grunt mentioned. That would feel great. I'll get one tomorrow!
05-08-2007, 10:45 PM
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