TSA (Trichostatin A) mystatin inhibitor
- 04-16-2007, 08:40 AM
TSA (Trichostatin A) mystatin inhibitor
In the May issue of MD TSA commercially known as Trichostatin A is said to markedly increase follistatin which is a internal myostatin blocker. Patrick Arnold states that a 220 lbs man would need around 60mg of this compound a day. I did a search and was able to find the Trichostatin on a couple of research chem. site for $84.00 for 1mg, $352 for 5mg and $616.00 for 10mg (expensive but interresting).
- 04-16-2007, 09:16 AM
- 04-16-2007, 09:57 AM
This would be a good project for LMD!!
04-16-2007, 11:27 AM
04-16-2007, 11:33 AM
SCIENTISTS SHOW DRUG CAN COUNTERACT MUSCULAR DYSTROPHY IN MICE
Scientists at the National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and
Skin Diseases (NIAMS) and other institutions have demonstrated for the
first time that a single drug can rebuild damaged muscle in two strains of
mice that develop diseases comparable to two human forms of muscular
dystrophy. This advance, which is reported online in "Nature Medicine", is
the latest from a research collaboration that began several years ago by
the teams of Vittorio Sartorelli, M.D., at NIAMS and Pier Lorenzo Puri,
M.D., Ph.D., now at Dulbecco Telethon Institute (DTI) in Rome, Italy and
The Burnham Institute in La Jolla, Calif.
The scientists tested trichostatin A (TSA), an inhibitor of the enzyme
deacetylase, in two mouse models of muscular dystrophy (MD): one that
naturally develops a disease similar to Duchenne muscular dystrophy in
humans, the other genetically altered to develop a form of dystrophy
similar to the human limb-girdle muscular dystrophy. At 45 to 90 days of
age, the muscles of the MD mice showed much fibrous tissue and
infiltration of inflammatory cells. Unlike healthy mice, the mice with MD
were unable to either run on a treadmill or swim. MD mice given TSA daily
for two to three months, however, were virtually indistinguishable from
healthy mice, and biophysical studies showed virtually no difference
between the muscle strength of the mice with MD given the deacetylase
inhibitor and healthy mice.
"This is the first example of using a drug to counteract muscular
dystrophy in mouse models," says Dr. Sartorelli. Yet he points out that
the drug is only promoting muscle regeneration - it is not curing the
defect that causes muscle deterioration. Further studies are needed to
determine how long the drug works and if it works in larger animals with
bigger muscles, such as dogs, before such drugs can be tested in people.
The finding has its roots in several of the group's earlier advances, the
first of which was reported in 2002 in the "Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences"1. The scientists found that treating muscle cells
with deacetylase inhibitors caused the cells to grow larger and
differentiate better, says Dr. Sartorelli, the group leader of the Muscle
Gene Expression Group in NIAMS' Laboratory of Muscle Biology. The next
advance, published two years later in the journal "Developmental Cell"2,
was the discovery that the inhibitor worked by changing gene expression,
causing some genes to be upregulated, or make more protein, and others to
be downregulated, or make less protein. Among the genes positively
regulated by the inhibitors was a gene for a key protein called
"It was known that follistatin had a role in muscle development, so by
understanding normal muscle development we knew that follistatin would
block the activity of another protein called myostatin," says Dr.
Sartorelli. "If you block myostatin, you get big muscles."
One way of inactivating myostatin is to upregulate follistatin. Basically,
what follistatin does is to prevent myostatin from working, says Dr.
Sartorelli. When his group treated the cells with deacetylase inhibitors,
they saw that the cells became large and that follistatin was
overexpressed. However, when the group treated the cells with the
inhibitors and then used other agents to block follistatin, the cells
didn't become bigger, showing that one of the most important pathways the
inhibitors use to create bigger muscles involves the activation of
follistatin. "If you didn't have follistatin anymore, these drugs didn't
work," he says.
Moreover, Drs. Sartorelli's and Puri's groups were able to show that in
normal animals, follistatin is upregulated when muscle is damaged. When
the researchers induced muscle damage and then gave the inhibitors,
follistatin was even more expressed, as were two proteins that reflect
increased muscle regeneration.
Other Italian groups contributed to the present study, including the
Istituto Dermatologico dell' Immacolata of Rome; the Department of
Experimental Medicine, Human Physiology Unit, University of Pavia; and the
Laboratory of Vascular Biology and Genetic Therapy, Centro Cardiologico
This study was supported in part by the Intramural Research Program of the
National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases of
the National Institutes of Health. Other support was provided by Telethon
(Italy), the Muscular Dystrophy Association and the Parent Project
The mission of the National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and
Skin Diseases (NIAMS), a part of the Department of Health and Human
Services' National Institutes of Health, is to support research into the
causes, treatment, and prevention of arthritis and musculoskeletal and
skin diseases; the training of basic and clinical scientists to carry out
this research; and the dissemination of information on research progress
in these diseases. For more information about NIAMS, call the information
Clearinghouse at (301) 495-4484 or (877) 22-NIAMS (free call) or visit the
NIAMS Web site at
The National Institutes of Health (NIH) -- "The Nation's Medical Research
Agency" -- includes 27 Institutes and Centers and is a component of the
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. It is the primary federal
agency for conducting and supporting basic, clinical and translational
medical research, and it investigates the causes, treatments, and cures
for both common and rare diseases. For more information about NIH and its
04-16-2007, 11:47 AM
Any data on the specificity of this effect to skeletal muscle though?
04-17-2007, 10:15 PM
I'm a bit skeptical that these results can be replicated in humans..... Don't get me wrong though because im all for new Beast Makers....hope this pans out in humans. It also sounds promising for people who suffer from MD.
04-21-2007, 02:22 PM
i would imagine its possible that this stuff could be manufactured cheaply enough if some company would have the incentive to invest in the research and development
however this is an endeavor far beyond the technical and financial capabilities of a supplement company. I suppose a chinese pharmaceutical manufacturer could pull it off though
04-21-2007, 02:25 PM
04-29-2007, 03:13 PM
Sodium butyrate may have similar effects via histone hyperacetylation. It is also cheap and well tolerated orally.
04-29-2007, 04:15 PM
its not cheap and its also supposed to give a pretty ****ed up smell to people that use it
it also depletes glutamine among other not so desirable things.
i looked into it and came to the conclusion it was not a good idea, but if anyone scores some and tries it i would like to know the results.
BTW, it can be made cheaply from gamma-butyrolactone (GBL). GBL used to be cheap and readily available but now is a controlled substance of course cuz its a GHB analog
bTW, it can be made
04-30-2007, 09:22 AM
No Sir, I am indeed speaking of Sodium butyrate, NOT Sodium phenylbutyrate.
I just grabbed the below because it was the first of many, many studies concerning NaBu and TSA (I really wasn't concerned with the study it self or the outcome). I just wanted to illustrate that NaBu does hypoeracetylate histone and that it is often studied with TSA.
I realise NaBu is a shot gun approach to a specific problem, but it may be the best cheap and readily available dietary supplement that we currently have to try and raise follistatin through modification of histone acetylation.
Effects of the histone deacetylases inhibitors sodium butyrate and trichostatin A on the inhibition of gap junctional intercellular communication by H2O2- and 12-O-tetradecanoylphorbol-13-acetate in rat liver epithelial cells.
Department of Veterinary Public Health, College of Veterinary Medicine, Seoul National University, San 56-1, Sillim-dong, Gwanakgu, Seoul 151-742, South Korea.
The histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitors, trichostatin A (TSA) and sodium butyrate (NaBu) are considered as potent therapeutic agents for cancer treatment presenting therapeutic benefits with less risk of side effects. The microbial metabolite, TSA is a potent reversible and highly specific inhibitor of mammalian histone deacetylases. NaBu causes hyperacetylation of core histones with effects similar to TSA but it is not a specific inhibitor of HDACs. The gap junction is a channel in the plasma membrane of most cell types which allows direct communication (gap junctional intercellular communication; GJIC) of small molecules and ions. Modulation of GJIC is a known cellular event associated with tumor promotion. The effects of NaBu and TSA on the H(2)O(2)- and 12-O-tetradecanoylphorbol-13-acetate (TPA)-induced GJIC inhibition of WB cells and the mechanisms involved in the process were assessed. TSA and NaBu exerted differential preventive effects on the H(2)O(2) and TPA-induced inhibition of GJIC as well as hyperphosphorylation of connexin43 (Cx43) in WB-F344 rat liver epithelial cells (WB cells). NaBu prevented the TPA-induced GJIC inhibition via ERK1/2 inactivation whilst TSA restored the H(2)O(2)-induced GJIC inhibition and Cx43 hyperphosphorylation by preventing p38 MAP kinase. The inhibition of tyrosine phosphorylation and down-regulation of src protein observed may also contribute to Connexin 43 dephosphorylation and GJIC restoration by TSA and NaBu partly through depletion of src protein pool. Thus, TSA and NaBu exert differential effects on chemically induced GJIC inhibition via modulation of MAP kinases and partly, tyrosine kinases.
04-30-2007, 09:52 AM
I am guessing that you would need to consume alot of sodium butyrate to acheive the desired effect (the doses of sodium phenylbutyrate are already high and i am assuming that this is stronger than butyrate).
If you are familiar with the smell of butyric acid (rancid butter) then you can see what the likely problems with this stuff would be. You would stink incredibly badly
05-02-2007, 10:47 PM
PA- Can't remember where I read it, I wrote it down, but somewhere somebody was talking about how you were going to release some info on an antibiotic that inhibits myostatin, something about G148/geneticin? Are you still planning on doing that?
Also are you ever planning on doing anything with that carrageenan product you wrote about a while ago?
05-03-2007, 06:29 AM
05-03-2007, 08:11 AM
05-03-2007, 08:12 AM
05-03-2007, 08:24 AM
05-05-2007, 12:01 AM
05-05-2007, 12:21 AM
05-05-2007, 01:56 PM
05-05-2007, 02:12 PM
Pat - I interned at a little chemical company that used butyric anhydride in one of it's plants to make pharm. coatings. (Basically react the anhydride with cellulose - wood chips - in a CSTR.)
I worked across the street - and dear GOD did that place smell awful. Forget rancid butter - it was week old moldy baby sh*t.
The operators that worked in that plant came home smelling like it. Worst was playing basketball with one of them - when he'd sweat that crap would start seeping out of his pores.
Anyway - yeah anything butyric is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.
05-05-2007, 02:22 PM
the carrageenan solution is over 99% water so the stuff should mix and be fine. the carrageenan solution hangs on to water and keeps it from diffusing out really quickly, so i can see the possibility of it keeping the IGF-1 in the muscle longer. which of course would lead to much greater potential for interaction with IGF-1 receptors there
05-05-2007, 02:25 PM
the guy that used to be our production manager worked at a plant that worked with buytric acid before he got a job with us. he said that it would linger and linger and was impossible to get rid of. he had to endure being treated like a pariah anywhere he went (gym, supermarket, etc)
yes it is one of the strongest and most vile stenches i know of
05-06-2007, 12:22 AM
05-06-2007, 09:31 AM
05-06-2007, 10:08 AM
05-06-2007, 10:37 AM
05-06-2007, 10:54 AM
Yeah - that's what I meant: add one C to prop to get vile (but).
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