back injury IGF-1?
- 03-30-2007, 05:45 PM
back injury IGF-1?
Sorry but this may be a little long winded--any help would be greatly appreciated
injured my back about a year ago doing snatch grip deads..pulled the weight about 6 inches off the floor then bam (didnt pull my shoulders back quick enough--also finally acknowledged the fact that my body is not made for conventional deadlifting (more sumo), with my very short arms yet long torso)
went to a chiro he said i did not have disc damage as my referred pain was only sharp pain in my glute med and some tingling down my calf and foot, it didnt radiate all the way down. My pain only occurred only with flexion type stuff---driving with poor posture allowing my spine to flex for extended periods--i would get a shooting pain in my glute when i got out of my car.
I continued lifting and within 6 weeks i was back doing everything heavy and hard with the only pain being some pain in my left glute.
Reinjured the back a few months later doing RDL's. Went to a different chiro and he said i had a some disc damage and had me do extension only type exercises for a month and worked slowly back into flexion. Went to a ortho got an mri---had a few mild bulges, and a mild herniation at l5-s1 with some mild stenosis. The only thing was the herniation pushed to the right-yet all my nerve irriatation is on the left leg.
Got back into training---never too heavy put limits on most lifts and did a lot of single leg movements to lessen compression----had another episode doing good mornings (not very heavy) nothing sharp but a very strong stiffness type feeling that can not be worked out or loosened and reirritated the nerve
been getting epidural shots since---they have helped some but i am no longer able to train at all and have problems at work (I am a strength and conditioning coach)
I have decided to start physical therapy to get some traction, have been taking cissus, celadrin and fish oil...perhaps looking to see if ifg-1 can help?
Core training is not really an option right now---flexion exercises irritate that disc and stabilization type exercises (bridges) cause terrible spasms (I can do a little abductor/adductor work). Flexibility is not an issue---tremendous flexibility in my hip flexors, external rotators, hams
Would like to try ART but the closest person is 90 miles away.
Will try the PT see if it helps but part of the problem is i dont have a specific diagnosis (my herniation is on the opposite side of my symptoms and have mild stenosis). I really want to get back into training and as a strength and conditioning coach it is obviously imperative to be able to demonstrate exercises,etc.
I have some nerve irritation still but a terrible stiffness type feeling in my back that can not be worked out and some pretty good spasming. Any help would be awesome---sorry about being long winded just wanted to be detailed to see if anyone had something real similar. Thanks
- 04-03-2007, 12:37 AM
What this says is combination of HGH (or booster) (for platelet-derived growth factor) and IGF-1R3 would be strong choice to help heal disks. I have more, but this is the easiest to understand.
Anti-apoptotic effects of IGF-1 and PDGF on human intervertebral disc cells in vitro.
Gruber HE, Norton HJ, Hanley EN Jr.
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery, Carolinas Medical Center, Charlotte, North Carolina 28232, USA.
STUDY DESIGN: Human cells from the anulus were grown in tissue culture in an experimental design to study the anti-apoptotic effect of two selected cytokines. OBJECTIVES: To determine whether two selected cytokines, insulin-like growth factor-1 and platelet-derived growth factor, were effective in decreasing apoptosis in human cells from the anulus grown in culture for 10 days. SUMMARY OF THE BACKGROUND DATA: Previous studies have shown that there is a small cell population in the aging human intervertebral disc. Earlier work from the authors' laboratory suggested that apoptosis (programmed cell death) may be a major contributing factor to the decrease in cell number. A wide variety of inhibitors of apoptosis have now been identified; the present report presents findings on the actions of insulin-like growth factor-1 and platelet-derived growth factor in retarding or preventing apoptosis. METHODS: Using previously published culture methods, cells from the anulus of 25 subjects (mean age, 41.7 years) were grown in monolayer culture for 10 days and tested under the following conditions: 1) control growth in the presence of 20% fetal bovine serum; 2) positive control conditions promoting the development of apoptosis in the absence of serum; or 3) in dose-response regimes where insulin-like growth factor-1 or platelet-derived growth factor were added in the presence of only 1% fetal bovine serum (necessary for basal cell maintenance). Specimens were derived from 18 lumbar, 9 cervical, and 1 thoracic sites; the average Thompson score was III. Cells were grown on chambered slides and evaluated in situ using the TdT in situ apoptosis detection reaction to identify apoptotic cells. An average of 300 cells were counted in replicate cultures at each dose to determine the incidence of apoptosis; results were analyzed with standard statistical techniques. Cultured cells also were examined with transmission electron microscopy. RESULTS: Serum withdrawal to a 1% level was used as a positive apoptosis control in vitro and resulted in a significantly greater percentage of apoptosis compared with the 20% serum negative control (1.02% +/- 0.34 (28) versus 0.14% +/- 0. 04 (27; mean +/- SEM (n)), P < 0.0001). Exposure to 50 ng/mL insulin-like growth factor-1 significantly reduced the percentage of apoptosis (vs.- 1% serum) to 0.49% +/- 0.26 (P = 0.005); 500 ng/mL was also significantly effective (% apoptosis = 0.09% +/- 0.04 (P = 0.0001). Platelet-derived growth factor at a dose of 100 ng/mL also significantly reduced apoptosis (0.18 +/- 0.11, P = 0.0001). CONCLUSIONS: Data demonstrate a significant reduction in the percentage of apoptotic disc cells after exposure to 50-500 ng/mL insulin-like growth factor-1 or exposure to 100 ng/mL platelet-derived growth factor. These findings expand the understanding of the cell biology of the disc cell and show that selected cytokines can retard or prevent programmed cell death in vitro. The administration of these cytokines may have future therapeutic potential in the treatment of disc degeneration.
Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
PMID: 10973395 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
- 04-03-2007, 07:28 PM
thanks for the reply...do you think oratropin +Pght would be a good choice for an injury?
04-03-2007, 07:46 PM
Is that study saying that IGF-1 and GH (or a booster...GHRP6?) can slow disk degeneration? Or actually build disks back up??
Either of those would be a pretty big deal!
Any other studies with similar findings Werewolf?
04-03-2007, 10:42 PM
The cartilage can be healed too. I was doing the research for a friend with bad back, but when Oratrophin went off market I quit. I not getting this guy to use needles so I gave up.
04-04-2007, 06:24 AM
04-04-2007, 08:11 AM
i am not certain but i believe my injury is more of an injury to the annular ring of the disc (not a true herniation). From my understanding the annular is a ligamentous structure; does IGF help ligaments rebuid or only cartilage and tendons? Thanks again
04-04-2007, 11:01 AM
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