Injuries and hGH

[christopher]

Ive had a couple of shoulder surgeries in the past (bicept tendon, labrum tear, rotator cuff tear, decompresssion etc....) The most recent rehab was for a yr....I built my stabilizers and gradually went back to normal excercises...

I reinjured it again....Torn labrum....

So my doc and my PT tell me that I'm gonna have to accept a life as would a "non athletic male"....WTF!!!

Granted, I probably overdid it....I wanted to fight again and was hitting the heavy bag daily.....I started slow, and gradually increased until I was hiitting as if I never had an injury....Practicing my hooks and then 3 days later, It was pain and I knew it was torn...Arthrogram confirmed it...

So my question...Is there anyway around it...? HGH? I been readin about baseball pitchers and labrum tears...Omly 1 has ever made a comeback....

I just dont undersatnd why it tore...after a yr...and I rehabbed it non stop....My knees give me trouble too....I'm 37 and my body is fallin apart....I'm not ready to hang up my athletics or outdoor activities....And why go thru the surgery if its gonna rip/tear again..?

Anyone got any advice, much appreciated...

 

[CRUNCH]

If it's a tear, it'll need surgery to reattach it. They won't just grow back on their own. If your doc won't do it, try another one.

GH and IGF-1 will drastically speed up the recovery after surgery though. Or heal it quickly if it's just a strain or pull.

 

[christopher]

If it's a tear, it'll need surgery to reattach it. They won't just grow back on their own. If your doc won't do it, try another one.

GH and IGF-1 will drastically speed up the recovery after surgery though. Or heal it quickly if it's just a strain or pull.

The arthrogram says "FOCAL DEFECT IN THE ANTERIOR AND SUPERIOR LABRUM FROM APPROXIMATELY THE 1 O'CLOCK TO 3 O'CLOCK POSITION WHICH IS HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS OF A FOCAL TEAR"""

My doc will do the surgery, I just dont know if I can handle another rehAb and the down time.....I had my first one in May 05, the ripped it again and had surgery in Feb 06....now I tore the labrum...in a different spot than before....

Dont wanna go thru it if its gonna rip again....and, if I'm gonna have to live and be restricted, why do it...? I still want to box, golf, play football etc.....Its my throwing (right)arm....

My pt told me to accept it, that you cant polish ****....I'm not ready to accept it...there has got to be alternatives....I researched on labrum tears and major league pitchers, and ever called the doc that did John Rockers surgery...Dont know if the "best" surgeon, or the one with the most hype/rep, makes a difference, or if the hGH, brand and dose makes a difference either....

I dont wanna just jump into surgery and realize it could have been avoided, or could have healed quicker/stronger w/supplementation....

BTW, my IGF-1 was 173...

 

[CRUNCH]

Hmmm... you could always hit the IGF-1 hard, do therapy and see how it goes. If it is a pull or bad strain, you'll know in a couple weeks as it starts to heal up and get stronger.

If it doesn't really get better, that's probably a good indication it is torn. If you end up getting the surgery, the IGF-1 will heal you back up very quickly.

Grunt will be able to give you better advice as to a dosing schedule for either option. If he hasn't seen this already, he will soon.

After all is said and done, you'll need to figure out why it keeps tearing. Most likely that can be due to antogonist muscles being weak.

 

[christopher]

Hmmm... you could always hit the IGF-1 hard, do therapy and see how it goes. If it is a pull or bad strain, you'll know in a couple weeks as it starts to heal up and get stronger.

If it doesn't really get better, that's probably a good indication it is torn. If you end up getting the surgery, the IGF-1 will heal you back up very quickly.

Grunt will be able to give you better advice as to a dosing schedule for either option. If he hasn't seen this already, he will soon.

After all is said and done, you'll need to figure out why it keeps tearing. Most likely that can be due to antogonist muscles being weak.

got an appt w/my surgeon and also my PT scheduled for Monday morning...I m gettin the results from the '05 arthrogram to compare the labrum images....

I emailed Grunt earlier....

And you hit it dead on...I need to know why its tearing....I rehabbed my stabilizers hard, and my strenght was back to a 5 in both arms....I worked up to hitting the bag hard over a period of time (2 mos) and injured it practicing my hooks...Kinda dumb..I shouldve bought a softer bag, but nooooooooo......

Thankx for the replies....Im considering flying to calif. to see Dr Marianco....

 

[CRUNCH]

Any pushing (punching) exercises will keep working the anterior muscles, or agonists to the labrum. You need to work the opposite muscles hard. Your rear delts big time, and all upper back, and mid-trap muscles. Lot's of reverse fly's and wide grip rowing exercises.

 

[christopher]

Any pushing (punching) exercises will keep working the anterior muscles, or agonists to the labrum. You need to work the opposite muscles hard. Your rear delts big time, and all upper back, and mid-trap muscles. Lot's of reverse fly's and wide grip rowing exercises.

Concentrating on training the large or small (stAbilizer) muscles...?

 

[CRUNCH]

Concentrating on training the large or small (stAbilizer) muscles...?

Both. The rear rotator cuff muscles, the rear delt (huge!) and upper back, mainly mid and upper traps. These are are muscles that support (stabilize) your arm so it can do it's task. If these are weak, they can't support the punching/throwing movements...especially it they're fast movements, which I suspect they are.

Always do MORE pulling exercises that you do pushing. The posterior part of your entire body is extremely important for the anterior part to do it's job well.

 

[christopher]

Hmmm... you could always hit the IGF-1 hard, do therapy and see how it goes. If it is a pull or bad strain, you'll know in a couple weeks as it starts to heal up and get stronger.

If it doesn't really get better, that's probably a good indication it is torn. If you end up getting the surgery, the IGF-1 will heal you back up very quickly.

Grunt will be able to give you better advice as to a dosing schedule for either option. If he hasn't seen this already, he will soon.

After all is said and done, you'll need to figure out why it keeps tearing. Most likely that can be due to antogonist muscles being weak.

Got an appt w/my orthepedic doc and my PT in the am.....

bump for Grunts opinion....

 

[djl]

Something else you may want to look into is prolotherapy. Don't know if it'd help, but you never know.

Prolotherapy-Overview

 

[firefighter2032]

I'll give credit to the prolotherapy and to the IGF.

I used the prolotherapy and got my injury in my arm back to 80-85% and the IGF got me to 100%.

Give a bump to Werewolf also here on the boards, the guy knows his stuff and is nothing but helpful.

Any questions on the prolotherapy feel free to give me a PM and I'll answer any questions you got on it.

 

[Werewolf]

I'll give credit to the prolotherapy and to the IGF.

I used the prolotherapy and got my injury in my arm back to 80-85% and the IGF got me to 100%.

Give a bump to Werewolf also here on the boards, the guy knows his stuff and is nothing but helpful.

Any questions on the prolotherapy feel free to give me a PM and I'll answer any questions you got on it.

He needs both IGF-1R3 and HGH or booster. Unfortunely with the Oratrophin gone, I don't know best way to dose IGF-1R3 and it means injections.

This kind of injury needs both IGF-R3 and HGH to heal completely. Hexatrophin or PGH-T boost HGH, but with having to inject IGF-1R3 then GHRP-6 is probably HGH booster to look at.

You probably should have your natural HGH and IGF-1 levels tested to make sure that aren't down serverly which could explain the re-injury.

Hopefully Grunt will come by shortly.

 

[christopher]

Thankx for the replies...Gotta admit, I 'm not real clear about them though, as I just started researching hGH ....I just learned that IGF and HGH were different, lol....

Saw my doc yesterday, and he said that I need surgery, as it wont ever get any better....My shoulder is rolled forward considerably, and I'm gettin pain in my neck/shoulderblade....

My PT told me not to rush into surgery....I still have 5 strenght and full range of motion....Because of my strenght, he coulndt feel the shoulder "engage"/"disengage" during manipulation....

My surgeon referred me to a specialist, or should I say a guy w/more experience at fixing multiple injuries....Got an appt w/him Thursday...He said I need SLAP surgery....

Patient Guide to SLAP Tears - The Orthopedic Center of St. Louis

Already had rotator cuff tear.....
labrum tear to the alternate portion of labrum....
bicept tendon had to be reattached and is now 100%...
Sub acromial Impingement ....

He said that basically, I have had everyting done to this shoulder but this injury....No reinjuries to date....

Dont wanna go thru all of this if I cant go back to my normal activities....I've been told that I cant hit a heavy bag anymore????, have to slow my golf swing speed, and limit my throwing....

Why do the surgery then...? I can just do that now....


AS far as it healing on its own, its torn clear thru....the arthrogram shows it rather clearly.....I wonder if its from the added tension of the bicept tendon reattachment...

Like I said, I rehabbed for a LONG time...MY PT told me yesterday that they havent had another that rehabbed as thoroughly and to the strenght level that I did....Lucky for me, my labrum tore again....Faced w/missing another summer (this will be 3 in a row)....

If I,m gonna go down again, I wanna come back faster(less rehab time) and stronger and be able to resume normal (for me) activities w/out risk of reinjury....I'm really wondering if thats possible....My surgeon told me I was in the clear this time....

 

[CRUNCH]

If it was me, I'd get the surgery, at least there's hope there. The IGF and GH won't do anything for a tear, nothing will help it grow back. If you do the surgery, then use the IGF and GH, as it will speed up the recovery a great deal. Then do what you need to keep for doing any more damage. Lots of upper back work!!

 

[Werewolf]

If it was me, I'd get the surgery, at least there's hope there. The IGF and GH won't do anything for a tear, nothing will help it grow back. If you do the surgery, then use the IGF and GH, as it will speed up the recovery a great deal. Then do what you need to keep for doing any more damage. Lots of upper back work!!

You really want to get the IGF-1R3 in within 2 hours of surgery if possible for fastest recovery. Having surgery while on it would scare me, but I have no real reason behind that fear.

Using it within 2 hours of a heart attack in animal studies has shown that it can prevent all heart muscle damage from the heart attack. I think you would need a partner to pull this off.

 

[christopher]

You really want to get the IGF-1R3 in within 2 hours of surgery if possible for fastest recovery. Having surgery while on it would scare me, but I have no real reason behind that fear.

Using it within 2 hours of a heart attack in animal studies has shown that it can prevent all heart muscle damage from the heart attack. I think you would need a partner to pull this off.

Two hours post-op...?

What kind of improvement in recovery time can I expect...? The down time is listed as 3-6 mos, so w/IGF and/or hGH, what can I expect realistically...?

Another thing that concerns me about the surgery is "Starting Over" again at the gym....Will IGK/HGH help me keep my strenght/size gains....? Dont wanna be all atrophied for summer....

And thankx for all the replies, I appreciate it...

 

[CRUNCH]

Using it within 2 hours of a heart attack in animal studies has shown that it can prevent all heart muscle damage from the heart attack. I think you would need a partner to pull this off.

THAT is fascinating as hell!

 

[Werewolf]

Two hours post-op...?

What kind of improvement in recovery time can I expect...? The down time is listed as 3-6 mos, so w/IGF and/or hGH, what can I expect realistically...?

Another thing that concerns me about the surgery is "Starting Over" again at the gym....Will IGK/HGH help me keep my strenght/size gains....? Dont wanna be all atrophied for summer....

And thankx for all the replies, I appreciate it...

For tendons in rats, it supposed to 3 times as fast. For nerves it can close gaps 6 times as wide in rats. The idea of getting in quick is to reduce intial injury so I don't have a way of guessing.

Here is an interesting thread.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/48232-post-surgery-igf.html

 

[christopher]

For tendons in rats, it supposed to 3 times as fast. For nerves it can close gaps 6 times as wide in rats. The idea of getting in quick is to reduce intial injury so I don't have a way of guessing.

Here is an interesting thread.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/48232-post-surgery-igf.html

Can you give me a case specific routine....?

My knees are givin me alot of trouble also....

I've never injected anything before, in fact I'm scared of needles, but more afraid of not gettin back in the game....

Thankx in advance...

 

[CRUNCH]

Can you give me a case specific routine....?

My knees are givin me alot of trouble also....

I've never injected anything before, in fact I'm scared of needles, but more afraid of not gettin back in the game....

Thankx in advance...

Those little insulin needles are nothing, not much thicker than one of the hairs on your head. I remember being 23 (14 yrs ago) and using an 18 g the first couple times! Those things are like McDonalds straws!

 

[Grunt76]

Whoa SUPER DUPER thread here guys, this is a great read!

Incredible quality of advice!!!

 

[CRUNCH]

Well Grunt, anything I had to say about IGF was 100% learned from you.

 

[Werewolf]

Whoa SUPER DUPER thread here guys, this is a great read!

Incredible quality of advice!!!

Grunt, we actually need some input for dosing for IFG-1R3 and GHRP-6 along where to inject. etc

I have stayed away from the needles so far. Though my time maybe coming.

Can the GHRP-6 and IGF-1R3 be mixed together so only one shot?

Three times a day?

Amounts?

Where is best injection site?

Sub-Q?

 

[CRUNCH]

This was my "eductated guess" to Christopher for after surgery. We'll see how far off I was when Grunt gets a look:

"Post surgery rehab, I'm not too sure on. I would guess everyday injects though. Shoot it as close to where the surgery was as you can, even kind of rotate around the site from one day to the next. Maybe 30-40 mcgs per day. I am not positive about this. Dosing is probably done differently for rehab than it is for building. You'd do this for 4-5 weeks. Dosing for building is done every other day at 40 mcgs bilaterally into the muscles just worked. At this dose you can run it indefinitly."

 

[Grunt76]

Grunt, we actually need some input for dosing for IFG-1R3 and GHRP-6 along where to inject. etc

I have stayed away from the needles so far. Though my time maybe coming.

Can the GHRP-6 and IGF-1R3 be mixed together so only one shot?

Three times a day?

Amounts?

Where is best injection site?

Sub-Q?

Read my sticky at the top of this section.

 

[Werewolf]

Well Grunt, I have read it at least once and some of it multiple times, but I will go back through it again, it wouldn't hurt me. I definitely recommend that you Christopher read it. It is mostly oriented toward muscle growth and I was wondering if Grunt had any different ideas for injury repair.

I know Grunt hates Sub-Q because it tends to grow intestines, but I was trying to get time release for a short period of time. I drop that idea for now. With Oratrophin gone now I have to rethink how I would approach this.

This is my recommendation at this time, but I definitely still thinking about this. Since GHRP-6 needs three times a day dosing and it appears that IGF-1R3 probably doesn’t, this is direction I headed below.

I would have you start HexaTropin-6 roughly 36 hours before the operation every 24 hours until you drop IGF-1R3 to every 72 hours and then have you start taking the Hexatrophin every 72 on same day as IGF-1R3.

I would recommend you inject 40 to 50 mcg of IGF-1R3 IM (inter muscle) in the upper tricept on the side of the shoulder being operated on which is probably as close as you can get the injury site. The closer to the injury site the better. Anywhere in the tricept or bicept will work. Normal dosing would more like 20 mcg, but you definitely want some to go systematic and get up to the shoulder. Definitely trying to get the first shot within 2 hours of surgery, but as soon as possible after the operation. Some caution about with going into low blood sugar should be taken. Maybe even going a little lower on first shot, they usually have you on a glucose drip, but having glucose tablet available or taken one might be wise considering you probably haven‘t eaten for a while. Probably going to need a helper to pull this off. Your helper having a glucose meter might be wise.

Continue daily IGF-1R3 shots for total of 5 days and then drop both IGF-1R3 and Hexatrophin to every 72 hours.

With almost every tissue repair there is growth facture that works together IGF-1R3 to heal even faster than just IGF-1R3, but nothing seems to beat the pure healing power of IGF-1R3 (except on ligaments which only HGH works on, another good reason). When taking IGF-1R3, it does suppress HGH output when you most want it elevated for healing. This why I am such a big proponent of needing both for healing injuries.

 

[christopher]

Well Grunt, I have read it at least once and some of it multiple times, but I will go back through it again, it would hurt me. I definitely recommend that you Christopher read it. It is mostly oriented toward muscle growth and I was wondering if you had any different ideas for injury repair.

I know Grunt hates Sub-Q because it tends to grow intestines, but I was trying to get time release for a short period of time. I drop that idea for now. With Oratrophin gone now I have to rethink how I would approach this.

This is my recommendation at this time, but I definitely still thinking about this. Since GHRP-6 needs three times a day dosing and it appears that IGF-1R3 probably doesn’t this is direction I headed.

I would have you start HexaTropin-6 roughly 36 hours before the operation every 24 hours until you drop IGF-1R3 to every 72 hours and then have you start taking the Hexatrophin every 72 on same day as IGF-1R3.

I would recommend you inject 40 to 50 mcg of IGF-1R3 IM (inter muscle) in the upper tricept on the side of the shoulder being operated on which is probably as close as you can get the injury site. The closer to the injury site the better. Anywhere in the tricept or bicept will work. Normal dosing would more like 20 mcg, but you definitely want some to go systematic and get up to the shoulder. Definitely trying to get the first shot within 2 hours of surgery, but as soon as possible after the operation. Some caution about with going into low blood sugar should be taken. Maybe even going a little lower on first shot, they usually have you on a glucose drip, but having glucose tablet available or taken one might be wise considering you probably haven‘t eaten for a while. Probably going to need a helper to pull this off. Your helper having a glucose meter might be wise.

Continue daily IGF-1R3 shots for total of 5 days and then drop both IGF-1R3 and Hexatrophin to every 72 hours.

With almost every tissue repair there is growth facture that works together IGF-1R3 to heal even faster than just IGF-1R3, but nothing seems to beat the pure healing power of IGF-1R3 (except on ligaments which only HGH works on, another good reason). When taking IGF-1R3, it does suppress HGH output when you most want it elevated for healing. This why I am such a big proponent of needing both for healing injuries.

Got my appt. w/new surgeon on Tues....

REad 9 pages of Grunts sticky last night....All new to me...I had to google most of the terms, lol.... AS I stated, never injected before....Hope I'm doin the right thing here...

I read your posts w/IBE about splitting the kits and urgin them to keep ORA available...

Ill post again after I get a chance to read some more and process the info...

Thankx for the help man...

 

[Grunt76]

Well Grunt, I have read it at least once and some of it multiple times, but I will go back through it again, it would hurt me. I definitely recommend that you Christopher read it. It is mostly oriented toward muscle growth and I was wondering if you had any different ideas for injury repair.

I know Grunt hates Sub-Q because it tends to grow intestines, but I was trying to get time release for a short period of time. I drop that idea for now. With Oratrophin gone now I have to rethink how I would approach this.

This is my recommendation at this time, but I definitely still thinking about this. Since GHRP-6 needs three times a day dosing and it appears that IGF-1R3 probably doesn’t this is direction I headed.

I would have you start HexaTropin-6 roughly 36 hours before the operation every 24 hours until you drop IGF-1R3 to every 72 hours and then have you start taking the Hexatrophin every 72 on same day as IGF-1R3.

I would recommend you inject 40 to 50 mcg of IGF-1R3 IM (inter muscle) in the upper tricept on the side of the shoulder being operated on which is probably as close as you can get the injury site. The closer to the injury site the better. Anywhere in the tricept or bicept will work. Normal dosing would more like 20 mcg, but you definitely want some to go systematic and get up to the shoulder. Definitely trying to get the first shot within 2 hours of surgery, but as soon as possible after the operation. Some caution about with going into low blood sugar should be taken. Maybe even going a little lower on first shot, they usually have you on a glucose drip, but having glucose tablet available or taken one might be wise considering you probably haven‘t eaten for a while. Probably going to need a helper to pull this off. Your helper having a glucose meter might be wise.

Continue daily IGF-1R3 shots for total of 5 days and then drop both IGF-1R3 and Hexatrophin to every 72 hours.

With almost every tissue repair there is growth facture that works together IGF-1R3 to heal even faster than just IGF-1R3, but nothing seems to beat the pure healing power of IGF-1R3 (except on ligaments which only HGH works on, another good reason). When taking IGF-1R3, it does suppress HGH output when you most want it elevated for healing. This why I am such a big proponent of needing both for healing injuries.

Ah, this is a beautiful example of someone posting after doing their homework. :hammer: I'd rep you but it seems I did so too recently.

 

[Werewolf]

Got my appt. w/new surgeon on Tues....

REad 9 pages of Grunts sticky last night....All new to me...I had to google most of the terms, lol.... AS I stated, never injected before....Hope I'm doin the right thing here...

I read your posts w/IBE about splitting the kits and urgin them to keep ORA available...

Ill post again after I get a chance to read some more and process the info...

Thankx for the help man...

Thanks for the compliment Grunt. I assume this means I got the IGF-1R3 dosing amount close enough, which is where I am not as sure about.

Christopher, I am delibrately double dosing the Hexatrophin for the first 7 days. There may be a slight waste, but appears as a time release the pituitary can handle this much. I'm try to jack your HGH levels as high as I can without going to HGH injections. This may result in joint swelling, if it really gets to be too much then drop to every 2 or 3 day dosing sooner.

You can probably drop to PGH-T after the Hexatrophin is gone, it is much cheaper but probably a weaker of HGH booster. For PGH-T, it would be once or twice a day for day of IGF-1 injection and next day after. I wanted the time release for during the operation itself that Hexatrophin brings with as high of HGH and IGF-1 as possible. Notice it isn't IGF-1R3. Hexatrophin doesn't scare me use during the operation.

You probably want to do a test IGF-1R3 injection before the operation for practise. I would.

 

[christopher]

Thanks for the compliment Grunt. I assume this means I got the IGF-1R3 dosing amount close enough, which is where I am not as sure about.

Christopher, I am delibrately double dosing the Hexatrophin for the first 7 days. There may be a slight waste, but appears as a time release the pituitary can handle this much. I'm try to jack your HGH levels as high as I can without going to HGH injections. This may result in joint swelling, if it really gets to be too much then drop to every 2 or 3 day dosing sooner.

You can probably drop to PGH-T after the Hexatrophin is gone, it is much cheaper but probably a weaker of HGH booster. For PGH-T, it would be once or twice a day for day of IGF-1 injection and next day after. I wanted the time release for during the operation itself that Hexatrophin brings with as high of HGH and IGF-1 as possible. Notice it isn't IGF-1R3. Hexatrophin doesn't scare me use during the operation.

You probably want to do a test IGF-1R3 injection before the operation for practise. I would.

I'll be on painkillers after surgery, and wont notice symptoms....I ignore 'em....My Dads a diabetic, so I got a meter...What level is danger level, and what do to for me if I get there? Any of this protocol have negative interaction w/painkillers..? As far as tolerating the HGH boost, I'll deal if its gonna give me benefit w/out long term damage....

I read on another board that its essential to not become accustomed to a high level of hgh....the mental feeling that is....for, when it isnt duplicated, the lesser mood feels even more intensified....I equate it to bieng Rich and losing your cash, or never having any cash, so you dont know the difference....

Like I said, never pinned B4, so dont know that I can do it....I went to Wikipedia to find out the difference in the injection methods...Sad, I know...

I figured out most of the abbreviations in Grunts Sticky, except for the AA, BW & NACL preloads....?

I joined the IBE forum...thats where I order right..?

I reread your protocol.....You want only the initial shot to be @ 50mcg's correct...?

You guys think I should tell the surgeon, or just do it w/out his knowledge...?

Thankx

 

[CRUNCH]

The chances of your surgeon knowing anything about it is probably slim. If it was me, I wouldn't tell him.

He'll probably tell you some doomsday scenario about how your nuts will fall off.

 

[christopher]

The chances of your surgeon knowing anything about it is probably slim. If it was me, I wouldn't tell him.

He'll probably tell you some doomsday scenario about how your nuts will fall off.

exactly what I was thinkin....

Will my nuts fall off...? :think:

 

[jonesboy]

exactly what I was thinkin....

Will my nuts fall off...? :think:

lol... some great info and advice on this thread. christopher man i hope everything works out for you.. The info on the igf and rats.. have to rep you for that one... greatness...

 

[christopher]

lol... some great info and advice on this thread. christopher man i hope everything works out for you.. The info on the igf and rats.. have to rep you for that one... greatness...

Man, I went back thru the thread thinkin "what did I say about rats", only to realize.... :nutkick:

 

[CRUNCH]

exactly what I was thinkin....

Will my nuts fall off...? :think:

Nah...but keep some duct tape around just in case!

 

[jonesboy]

lmao

 

[Werewolf]

I'll be on painkillers after surgery, and wont notice symptoms....I ignore 'em....My Dads a diabetic, so I got a meter...What level is danger level, and what do to for me if I get there? Any of this protocol have negative interaction w/painkillers..? As far as tolerating the HGH boost, I'll deal if its gonna give me benefit w/out long term damage....

I read on another board that its essential to not become accustomed to a high level of hgh....the mental feeling that is....for, when it isnt duplicated, the lesser mood feels even more intensified....I equate it to bieng Rich and losing your cash, or never having any cash, so you dont know the difference....

Like I said, never pinned B4, so dont know that I can do it....I went to Wikipedia to find out the difference in the injection methods...Sad, I know...

I figured out most of the abbreviations in Grunts Sticky, except for the AA, BW & NACL preloads....?

I joined the IBE forum...thats where I order right..?

I reread your protocol.....You want only the initial shot to be @ 50mcg's correct...?

You guys think I should tell the surgeon, or just do it w/out his knowledge...?

Thankx

Actually you may want to keep first shot smaller so you don't have to worry about going hypo. I think rather than go small on the first shot the best course is to prepared so you can deal with it if hypo occures. Sounds like you have someone who can check you sugar levels. The nurse would probably do it if you ask too. 40 to 50 mcg is what I recommend for the other shots.

I doubt the surgeon will even know about IGF-1R3, but he might know affect of HGH. Unlikely he will understand IGF-1R3. Since neither are approved by FDA for this application he really can't tell you that you can use it.

 

[Grunt76]

Yeah bro use it without your surgeon's knowledge. Maybe have your dad pin you, at least he has some idea how. Even subQ will work well until you can do it yourself. 40 to 50 mcg will certainly NOT put you in any danger zone in terms of hypoglycemia. As others have suggested, do a test shot, maybe on an empty stomach, and measure your glucose levels on the meter.

Should be totally fine, as IGF's hypoglycemic drive isn't enough to put you into a coma, even less kill you. It is NOT insulin after all.

 

[christopher]

Had my doc appt this afternoon....

After reviewing the Arthrogram, he said that the rotator cuff and bicept tendon look good...

The labrum, where the radiologist and my doc that did my surgeries said there was a tear, perhaps isnt a tear....

He analyzed my strenght (all 5's) and ROM and everything is normal....

The rt shoulder is low by approx 2 inches, and also rolled forward....he had me to wall pushups to observe...

What was called a focal defect (labral tear) he used a term which i cant remember....Saying that it wasnt in fact a tear, but a genetic thing that any person would have if they had an MRI....From 1-3 oclock theer is a seperation...

Also, there is a bone fragment floating just above my bicepts tendon causing pain and possibly more....

So, his diagnosis was a 6 week stint at PT, w/no overhead lifting and rest other than PT , to be performed 3x weekly, focusing on strenghtening the scapular stabilizers & shoulder...If its not better by then, then its definately a tear....

So, thats good and bad...good if its not torn, but bad if it is cause it sets me back 6 more weeks....But, I can strenghten and use some supps to hopefully make post op rehab easier if its necessary...

Called my doc that did the surgeries, and he said its 60/40....but agreed that we'd know in 6 weeks....The thing that troubles me is that my shoulder dropped and rolled forward, exactly as it did when my labrum was torn initially...Asked doc about this, and he said that it could just be a response to injury, not necessarily a response to a tear....

So now im thinkin inflammation and controlling it, yet Im allergic to asprin and ibeuprophen.....Anybody got any suggestions...?Im using glucosamine sulfate right now.....

As for the IGF-1R3/HGH, Im still gonna do it..... (unless somehow I can get Oratrophin) its gonna be -1r3 and Hexatrophin.....

Thinkin of addin a test booster, as per Werewolf, to bump that up also...Since I cant really train and have to rest, I really dont wanna atrophy for summer....

Thoughts..?

 

[Werewolf]

Out of this:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-nutrition/59211-oratropin-tendonosis.html

1) I get my Harp. Proc. liquid extract at kalyx.com it is a natural anti-inflammatory without any side-effects, very potent, and used for the last 10,000 years very successfully.

2) I like Oratropin better because it is much faster acting.

3) Ask Bioman about it. I'll tell you my experience, After taking it for a few days any joint, or inflmmatory pain vanished for a couple months. It is great stuff. It induces a state of calm awareness in most people also.

There is more info in the thread.

 

[firefighter2032]

For the inflammation you can try out Naproxen if you want to use a prescription or if you want to stay with something natural you can go to your local health food store and get some Bromelain. It's the enzyme in pineapple and pineapple is one of the things that I've heard Dr's recommend prior to surgery.

Bromelain is one of the things I took and I think it did a fairly good job. And you can use it in conjunction with the glucosamine.

Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[Werewolf]

Had my doc appt this afternoon....

After reviewing the Arthrogram, he said that the rotator cuff and bicept tendon look good...

The labrum, where the radiologist and my doc that did my surgeries said there was a tear, perhaps isnt a tear....

He analyzed my strenght (all 5's) and ROM and everything is normal....

The rt shoulder is low by approx 2 inches, and also rolled forward....he had me to wall pushups to observe...

What was called a focal defect (labral tear) he used a term which i cant remember....Saying that it wasnt in fact a tear, but a genetic thing that any person would have if they had an MRI....From 1-3 oclock theer is a seperation...

Also, there is a bone fragment floating just above my bicepts tendon causing pain and possibly more....

So, his diagnosis was a 6 week stint at PT, w/no overhead lifting and rest other than PT , to be performed 3x weekly, focusing on strenghtening the scapular stabilizers & shoulder...If its not better by then, then its definately a tear....

So, thats good and bad...good if its not torn, but bad if it is cause it sets me back 6 more weeks....But, I can strenghten and use some supps to hopefully make post op rehab easier if its necessary...

Called my doc that did the surgeries, and he said its 60/40....but agreed that we'd know in 6 weeks....The thing that troubles me is that my shoulder dropped and rolled forward, exactly as it did when my labrum was torn initially...Asked doc about this, and he said that it could just be a response to injury, not necessarily a response to a tear....

So now im thinkin inflammation and controlling it, yet Im allergic to asprin and ibeuprophen.....Anybody got any suggestions...?Im using glucosamine sulfate right now.....

As for the IGF-1R3/HGH, Im still gonna do it..... (unless somehow I can get Oratrophin) its gonna be -1r3 and Hexatrophin.....

Thinkin of addin a test booster, as per Werewolf, to bump that up also...Since I cant really train and have to rest, I really dont wanna atrophy for summer....

Thoughts..?

For test booster you want something that raises estrogen like Testosterone itself. Estrogen is good for joints and helps IGF-1R3 work better, just don't get carried away and get gyno. There are other choices. Not sure which to recommend, most of the good ones right now lower estrogen.

 

[bioman]

IGF, Celadrin, Cissus and whatever other anti-inflammatories mentioned like Bromelain, devil's Claw et cetera will work well. The IGF will take care of the bulk of the injury in record time...the rate of healing is quite shocking.

 

[christopher]

How does this sound :
order kit of IGF-1R3 and a kit of Hexatrophin...

I'm taking gluc. Sul caps (2000mg daily divided 2x daily) ....


Which would be better for inflammation....Gluc sulfate + bromelain dosed 4xdaily x 500mg each....

or

Cissus and devils claw liquid for 4 weeks at 3x recommended and then drop to 1x dose

or combine the two and/or add Harp Procumbers to either...?

After readin the injury threads and protocols, Im confused as to my approach/diagnosis...

The doc said he didnt think it was a tear, but a response to injury (that my shoulder rolled forward and dropped)...and reccomended the scapular exercises for 6 weeks...If hes right, then inflammation needs reduced as well a strenghtening...But isnt rest as or more important than strenghtening in healing in this case..?

Another concern...say I go the 6 weeks and its not better and its decided that I need surgery....That has to influence my hex/igf dosing protocol for this initail period....or whether or not to use the igf at all...the load phase of the hex would be ok going into surgery.. But, would the same be true for the IGF..?

Im pretty sure I can run the Hex for long enough, and can adjust the igf dosing the same...

for an HGH booster , do the same dosing instruction apply (multiple times daily for injury repair, 1x daily for muscle mass) as HGH injections..?

And for the igf, can I dose to gain mass in legs while maintaining / strenghtening my shoulder /upper body...? Hopefully, the inflammation protocol will work on my knees also....

Thankx to all who have given me advice, I appreciate it...

 

[firefighter2032]

I tried taking Glucosamine split throughout the day but found I had better luck taking it in conjunction with Chrondroitin and taking the dose all at once 1500mg Glucosamine / 1200mg Chrondroitin. I also took in conjunction with bromelain and Cissus and I really liked the results. I've never tried Devil's Claw but it's been around for centuries so I don't doubt it's ability.

IMO...Letting an injury rest too much is a bad idea. The area needs to receive as much blood supply to the area as possible in order to feed the injury nutrients.

Listen to you body during the PT and it will tell you what is too much and when you can push harder. The hardest part is learning how to listen to your body.