Injuries and hGH

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  1. Injuries and hGH


    Ive had a couple of shoulder surgeries in the past (bicept tendon, labrum tear, rotator cuff tear, decompresssion etc....) The most recent rehab was for a yr....I built my stabilizers and gradually went back to normal excercises...

    I reinjured it again....Torn labrum....

    So my doc and my PT tell me that I'm gonna have to accept a life as would a "non athletic male"....WTF!!!

    Granted, I probably overdid it....I wanted to fight again and was hitting the heavy bag daily.....I started slow, and gradually increased until I was hiitting as if I never had an injury....Practicing my hooks and then 3 days later, It was pain and I knew it was torn...Arthrogram confirmed it...

    So my question...Is there anyway around it...? HGH? I been readin about baseball pitchers and labrum tears...Omly 1 has ever made a comeback....

    I just dont undersatnd why it tore...after a yr...and I rehabbed it non stop....My knees give me trouble too....I'm 37 and my body is fallin apart....I'm not ready to hang up my athletics or outdoor activities....And why go thru the surgery if its gonna rip/tear again..?

    Anyone got any advice, much appreciated...


  2. If it's a tear, it'll need surgery to reattach it. They won't just grow back on their own. If your doc won't do it, try another one.

    GH and IGF-1 will drastically speed up the recovery after surgery though. Or heal it quickly if it's just a strain or pull.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    If it's a tear, it'll need surgery to reattach it. They won't just grow back on their own. If your doc won't do it, try another one.

    GH and IGF-1 will drastically speed up the recovery after surgery though. Or heal it quickly if it's just a strain or pull.
    The arthrogram says "FOCAL DEFECT IN THE ANTERIOR AND SUPERIOR LABRUM FROM APPROXIMATELY THE 1 O'CLOCK TO 3 O'CLOCK POSITION WHICH IS HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS OF A FOCAL TEAR"""

    My doc will do the surgery, I just dont know if I can handle another rehAb and the down time.....I had my first one in May 05, the ripped it again and had surgery in Feb 06....now I tore the labrum...in a different spot than before....

    Dont wanna go thru it if its gonna rip again....and, if I'm gonna have to live and be restricted, why do it...? I still want to box, golf, play football etc.....Its my throwing (right)arm....

    My pt told me to accept it, that you cant polish ****....I'm not ready to accept it...there has got to be alternatives....I researched on labrum tears and major league pitchers, and ever called the doc that did John Rockers surgery...Dont know if the "best" surgeon, or the one with the most hype/rep, makes a difference, or if the hGH, brand and dose makes a difference either....

    I dont wanna just jump into surgery and realize it could have been avoided, or could have healed quicker/stronger w/supplementation....

    BTW, my IGF-1 was 173...

  4. Hmmm... you could always hit the IGF-1 hard, do therapy and see how it goes. If it is a pull or bad strain, you'll know in a couple weeks as it starts to heal up and get stronger.

    If it doesn't really get better, that's probably a good indication it is torn. If you end up getting the surgery, the IGF-1 will heal you back up very quickly.

    Grunt will be able to give you better advice as to a dosing schedule for either option. If he hasn't seen this already, he will soon.

    After all is said and done, you'll need to figure out why it keeps tearing. Most likely that can be due to antogonist muscles being weak.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    Hmmm... you could always hit the IGF-1 hard, do therapy and see how it goes. If it is a pull or bad strain, you'll know in a couple weeks as it starts to heal up and get stronger.

    If it doesn't really get better, that's probably a good indication it is torn. If you end up getting the surgery, the IGF-1 will heal you back up very quickly.

    Grunt will be able to give you better advice as to a dosing schedule for either option. If he hasn't seen this already, he will soon.

    After all is said and done, you'll need to figure out why it keeps tearing. Most likely that can be due to antogonist muscles being weak.
    got an appt w/my surgeon and also my PT scheduled for Monday morning...I m gettin the results from the '05 arthrogram to compare the labrum images....

    I emailed Grunt earlier....

    And you hit it dead on...I need to know why its tearing....I rehabbed my stabilizers hard, and my strenght was back to a 5 in both arms....I worked up to hitting the bag hard over a period of time (2 mos) and injured it practicing my hooks...Kinda dumb..I shouldve bought a softer bag, but nooooooooo......

    Thankx for the replies....Im considering flying to calif. to see Dr Marianco....
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  6. Any pushing (punching) exercises will keep working the anterior muscles, or agonists to the labrum. You need to work the opposite muscles hard. Your rear delts big time, and all upper back, and mid-trap muscles. Lot's of reverse fly's and wide grip rowing exercises.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    Any pushing (punching) exercises will keep working the anterior muscles, or agonists to the labrum. You need to work the opposite muscles hard. Your rear delts big time, and all upper back, and mid-trap muscles. Lot's of reverse fly's and wide grip rowing exercises.
    Concentrating on training the large or small (stAbilizer) muscles...?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by christopher View Post
    Concentrating on training the large or small (stAbilizer) muscles...?
    Both. The rear rotator cuff muscles, the rear delt (huge!) and upper back, mainly mid and upper traps. These are are muscles that support (stabilize) your arm so it can do it's task. If these are weak, they can't support the punching/throwing movements...especially it they're fast movements, which I suspect they are.

    Always do MORE pulling exercises that you do pushing. The posterior part of your entire body is extremely important for the anterior part to do it's job well.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    Hmmm... you could always hit the IGF-1 hard, do therapy and see how it goes. If it is a pull or bad strain, you'll know in a couple weeks as it starts to heal up and get stronger.

    If it doesn't really get better, that's probably a good indication it is torn. If you end up getting the surgery, the IGF-1 will heal you back up very quickly.

    Grunt will be able to give you better advice as to a dosing schedule for either option. If he hasn't seen this already, he will soon.

    After all is said and done, you'll need to figure out why it keeps tearing. Most likely that can be due to antogonist muscles being weak.

    Got an appt w/my orthepedic doc and my PT in the am.....

    bump for Grunts opinion....

  10. Something else you may want to look into is prolotherapy. Don't know if it'd help, but you never know.

    Prolotherapy-Overview

  11. I'll give credit to the prolotherapy and to the IGF.

    I used the prolotherapy and got my injury in my arm back to 80-85% and the IGF got me to 100%.

    Give a bump to Werewolf also here on the boards, the guy knows his stuff and is nothing but helpful.

    Any questions on the prolotherapy feel free to give me a PM and I'll answer any questions you got on it.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by firefighter2032 View Post
    I'll give credit to the prolotherapy and to the IGF.

    I used the prolotherapy and got my injury in my arm back to 80-85% and the IGF got me to 100%.

    Give a bump to Werewolf also here on the boards, the guy knows his stuff and is nothing but helpful.

    Any questions on the prolotherapy feel free to give me a PM and I'll answer any questions you got on it.
    He needs both IGF-1R3 and HGH or booster. Unfortunely with the Oratrophin gone, I don't know best way to dose IGF-1R3 and it means injections.

    This kind of injury needs both IGF-R3 and HGH to heal completely. Hexatrophin or PGH-T boost HGH, but with having to inject IGF-1R3 then GHRP-6 is probably HGH booster to look at.

    You probably should have your natural HGH and IGF-1 levels tested to make sure that aren't down serverly which could explain the re-injury.

    Hopefully Grunt will come by shortly.

  13. Thankx for the replies...Gotta admit, I 'm not real clear about them though, as I just started researching hGH ....I just learned that IGF and HGH were different, lol....

    Saw my doc yesterday, and he said that I need surgery, as it wont ever get any better....My shoulder is rolled forward considerably, and I'm gettin pain in my neck/shoulderblade....

    My PT told me not to rush into surgery....I still have 5 strenght and full range of motion....Because of my strenght, he coulndt feel the shoulder "engage"/"disengage" during manipulation....

    My surgeon referred me to a specialist, or should I say a guy w/more experience at fixing multiple injuries....Got an appt w/him Thursday...He said I need SLAP surgery....

    Patient Guide to SLAP Tears - The Orthopedic Center of St. Louis

    Already had rotator cuff tear.....
    labrum tear to the alternate portion of labrum....
    bicept tendon had to be reattached and is now 100%...
    Sub acromial Impingement ....

    He said that basically, I have had everyting done to this shoulder but this injury....No reinjuries to date....

    Dont wanna go thru all of this if I cant go back to my normal activities....I've been told that I cant hit a heavy bag anymore????, have to slow my golf swing speed, and limit my throwing....

    Why do the surgery then...? I can just do that now....


    AS far as it healing on its own, its torn clear thru....the arthrogram shows it rather clearly.....I wonder if its from the added tension of the bicept tendon reattachment...

    Like I said, I rehabbed for a LONG time...MY PT told me yesterday that they havent had another that rehabbed as thoroughly and to the strenght level that I did....Lucky for me, my labrum tore again....Faced w/missing another summer (this will be 3 in a row)....

    If I,m gonna go down again, I wanna come back faster(less rehab time) and stronger and be able to resume normal (for me) activities w/out risk of reinjury....I'm really wondering if thats possible....My surgeon told me I was in the clear this time....

  14. If it was me, I'd get the surgery, at least there's hope there. The IGF and GH won't do anything for a tear, nothing will help it grow back. If you do the surgery, then use the IGF and GH, as it will speed up the recovery a great deal. Then do what you need to keep for doing any more damage. Lots of upper back work!!

  15. Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    If it was me, I'd get the surgery, at least there's hope there. The IGF and GH won't do anything for a tear, nothing will help it grow back. If you do the surgery, then use the IGF and GH, as it will speed up the recovery a great deal. Then do what you need to keep for doing any more damage. Lots of upper back work!!
    You really want to get the IGF-1R3 in within 2 hours of surgery if possible for fastest recovery. Having surgery while on it would scare me, but I have no real reason behind that fear.

    Using it within 2 hours of a heart attack in animal studies has shown that it can prevent all heart muscle damage from the heart attack. I think you would need a partner to pull this off.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    You really want to get the IGF-1R3 in within 2 hours of surgery if possible for fastest recovery. Having surgery while on it would scare me, but I have no real reason behind that fear.

    Using it within 2 hours of a heart attack in animal studies has shown that it can prevent all heart muscle damage from the heart attack. I think you would need a partner to pull this off.
    Two hours post-op...?

    What kind of improvement in recovery time can I expect...? The down time is listed as 3-6 mos, so w/IGF and/or hGH, what can I expect realistically...?

    Another thing that concerns me about the surgery is "Starting Over" again at the gym....Will IGK/HGH help me keep my strenght/size gains....? Dont wanna be all atrophied for summer....

    And thankx for all the replies, I appreciate it...

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    Using it within 2 hours of a heart attack in animal studies has shown that it can prevent all heart muscle damage from the heart attack. I think you would need a partner to pull this off.
    THAT is fascinating as hell!

  18. Quote Originally Posted by christopher View Post
    Two hours post-op...?

    What kind of improvement in recovery time can I expect...? The down time is listed as 3-6 mos, so w/IGF and/or hGH, what can I expect realistically...?

    Another thing that concerns me about the surgery is "Starting Over" again at the gym....Will IGK/HGH help me keep my strenght/size gains....? Dont wanna be all atrophied for summer....

    And thankx for all the replies, I appreciate it...
    For tendons in rats, it supposed to 3 times as fast. For nerves it can close gaps 6 times as wide in rats. The idea of getting in quick is to reduce intial injury so I don't have a way of guessing.

    Here is an interesting thread.

    Post Surgery IGF-1 Results. Shocking.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    For tendons in rats, it supposed to 3 times as fast. For nerves it can close gaps 6 times as wide in rats. The idea of getting in quick is to reduce intial injury so I don't have a way of guessing.

    Here is an interesting thread.

    Post Surgery IGF-1 Results. Shocking.
    Can you give me a case specific routine....?

    My knees are givin me alot of trouble also....

    I've never injected anything before, in fact I'm scared of needles, but more afraid of not gettin back in the game....

    Thankx in advance...

  20. Quote Originally Posted by christopher View Post
    Can you give me a case specific routine....?

    My knees are givin me alot of trouble also....

    I've never injected anything before, in fact I'm scared of needles, but more afraid of not gettin back in the game....

    Thankx in advance...
    Those little insulin needles are nothing, not much thicker than one of the hairs on your head. I remember being 23 (14 yrs ago) and using an 18 g the first couple times! Those things are like McDonalds straws!

  21. Whoa SUPER DUPER thread here guys, this is a great read!

    Incredible quality of advice!!!

  22. Well Grunt, anything I had to say about IGF was 100% learned from you.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    Whoa SUPER DUPER thread here guys, this is a great read!

    Incredible quality of advice!!!
    Grunt, we actually need some input for dosing for IFG-1R3 and GHRP-6 along where to inject. etc

    I have stayed away from the needles so far. Though my time maybe coming.

    Can the GHRP-6 and IGF-1R3 be mixed together so only one shot?

    Three times a day?

    Amounts?

    Where is best injection site?

    Sub-Q?

  24. This was my "eductated guess" to Christopher for after surgery. We'll see how far off I was when Grunt gets a look:

    "Post surgery rehab, I'm not too sure on. I would guess everyday injects though. Shoot it as close to where the surgery was as you can, even kind of rotate around the site from one day to the next. Maybe 30-40 mcgs per day. I am not positive about this. Dosing is probably done differently for rehab than it is for building. You'd do this for 4-5 weeks. Dosing for building is done every other day at 40 mcgs bilaterally into the muscles just worked. At this dose you can run it indefinitly."

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    Grunt, we actually need some input for dosing for IFG-1R3 and GHRP-6 along where to inject. etc

    I have stayed away from the needles so far. Though my time maybe coming.

    Can the GHRP-6 and IGF-1R3 be mixed together so only one shot?

    Three times a day?

    Amounts?

    Where is best injection site?

    Sub-Q?
    Read my sticky at the top of this section.
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