Injuries and hGH
- 03-15-2007, 02:34 PM
Injuries and hGH
Ive had a couple of shoulder surgeries in the past (bicept tendon, labrum tear, rotator cuff tear, decompresssion etc....) The most recent rehab was for a yr....I built my stabilizers and gradually went back to normal excercises...
I reinjured it again....Torn labrum....
So my doc and my PT tell me that I'm gonna have to accept a life as would a "non athletic male"....WTF!!!
Granted, I probably overdid it....I wanted to fight again and was hitting the heavy bag daily.....I started slow, and gradually increased until I was hiitting as if I never had an injury....Practicing my hooks and then 3 days later, It was pain and I knew it was torn...Arthrogram confirmed it...
So my question...Is there anyway around it...? HGH? I been readin about baseball pitchers and labrum tears...Omly 1 has ever made a comeback....
I just dont undersatnd why it tore...after a yr...and I rehabbed it non stop....My knees give me trouble too....I'm 37 and my body is fallin apart....I'm not ready to hang up my athletics or outdoor activities....And why go thru the surgery if its gonna rip/tear again..?
Anyone got any advice, much appreciated...
- 03-15-2007, 02:42 PM
If it's a tear, it'll need surgery to reattach it. They won't just grow back on their own. If your doc won't do it, try another one.
GH and IGF-1 will drastically speed up the recovery after surgery though. Or heal it quickly if it's just a strain or pull.
03-15-2007, 02:56 PM
My doc will do the surgery, I just dont know if I can handle another rehAb and the down time.....I had my first one in May 05, the ripped it again and had surgery in Feb 06....now I tore the labrum...in a different spot than before....
Dont wanna go thru it if its gonna rip again....and, if I'm gonna have to live and be restricted, why do it...? I still want to box, golf, play football etc.....Its my throwing (right)arm....
My pt told me to accept it, that you cant polish ****....I'm not ready to accept it...there has got to be alternatives....I researched on labrum tears and major league pitchers, and ever called the doc that did John Rockers surgery...Dont know if the "best" surgeon, or the one with the most hype/rep, makes a difference, or if the hGH, brand and dose makes a difference either....
I dont wanna just jump into surgery and realize it could have been avoided, or could have healed quicker/stronger w/supplementation....
BTW, my IGF-1 was 173...
03-15-2007, 03:21 PM
Hmmm... you could always hit the IGF-1 hard, do therapy and see how it goes. If it is a pull or bad strain, you'll know in a couple weeks as it starts to heal up and get stronger.
If it doesn't really get better, that's probably a good indication it is torn. If you end up getting the surgery, the IGF-1 will heal you back up very quickly.
Grunt will be able to give you better advice as to a dosing schedule for either option. If he hasn't seen this already, he will soon.
After all is said and done, you'll need to figure out why it keeps tearing. Most likely that can be due to antogonist muscles being weak.
03-15-2007, 03:40 PM
I emailed Grunt earlier....
And you hit it dead on...I need to know why its tearing....I rehabbed my stabilizers hard, and my strenght was back to a 5 in both arms....I worked up to hitting the bag hard over a period of time (2 mos) and injured it practicing my hooks...Kinda dumb..I shouldve bought a softer bag, but nooooooooo......
Thankx for the replies....Im considering flying to calif. to see Dr Marianco....
03-15-2007, 03:59 PM
Any pushing (punching) exercises will keep working the anterior muscles, or agonists to the labrum. You need to work the opposite muscles hard. Your rear delts big time, and all upper back, and mid-trap muscles. Lot's of reverse fly's and wide grip rowing exercises.
03-15-2007, 09:55 PM
03-16-2007, 12:55 AM
Always do MORE pulling exercises that you do pushing. The posterior part of your entire body is extremely important for the anterior part to do it's job well.
03-18-2007, 10:06 PM
03-19-2007, 02:40 PM
03-20-2007, 01:18 AM
I'll give credit to the prolotherapy and to the IGF.
I used the prolotherapy and got my injury in my arm back to 80-85% and the IGF got me to 100%.
Give a bump to Werewolf also here on the boards, the guy knows his stuff and is nothing but helpful.
Any questions on the prolotherapy feel free to give me a PM and I'll answer any questions you got on it.
03-20-2007, 02:29 AM
This kind of injury needs both IGF-R3 and HGH to heal completely. Hexatrophin or PGH-T boost HGH, but with having to inject IGF-1R3 then GHRP-6 is probably HGH booster to look at.
You probably should have your natural HGH and IGF-1 levels tested to make sure that aren't down serverly which could explain the re-injury.
Hopefully Grunt will come by shortly.
03-20-2007, 09:39 AM
Thankx for the replies...Gotta admit, I 'm not real clear about them though, as I just started researching hGH ....I just learned that IGF and HGH were different, lol....
Saw my doc yesterday, and he said that I need surgery, as it wont ever get any better....My shoulder is rolled forward considerably, and I'm gettin pain in my neck/shoulderblade....
My PT told me not to rush into surgery....I still have 5 strenght and full range of motion....Because of my strenght, he coulndt feel the shoulder "engage"/"disengage" during manipulation....
My surgeon referred me to a specialist, or should I say a guy w/more experience at fixing multiple injuries....Got an appt w/him Thursday...He said I need SLAP surgery....
Patient Guide to SLAP Tears - The Orthopedic Center of St. Louis
Already had rotator cuff tear.....
labrum tear to the alternate portion of labrum....
bicept tendon had to be reattached and is now 100%...
Sub acromial Impingement ....
He said that basically, I have had everyting done to this shoulder but this injury....No reinjuries to date....
Dont wanna go thru all of this if I cant go back to my normal activities....I've been told that I cant hit a heavy bag anymore????, have to slow my golf swing speed, and limit my throwing....
Why do the surgery then...? I can just do that now....
AS far as it healing on its own, its torn clear thru....the arthrogram shows it rather clearly.....I wonder if its from the added tension of the bicept tendon reattachment...
Like I said, I rehabbed for a LONG time...MY PT told me yesterday that they havent had another that rehabbed as thoroughly and to the strenght level that I did....Lucky for me, my labrum tore again....Faced w/missing another summer (this will be 3 in a row)....
If I,m gonna go down again, I wanna come back faster(less rehab time) and stronger and be able to resume normal (for me) activities w/out risk of reinjury....I'm really wondering if thats possible....My surgeon told me I was in the clear this time....
03-20-2007, 10:26 AM
If it was me, I'd get the surgery, at least there's hope there. The IGF and GH won't do anything for a tear, nothing will help it grow back. If you do the surgery, then use the IGF and GH, as it will speed up the recovery a great deal. Then do what you need to keep for doing any more damage. Lots of upper back work!!
03-20-2007, 11:56 PM
Using it within 2 hours of a heart attack in animal studies has shown that it can prevent all heart muscle damage from the heart attack. I think you would need a partner to pull this off.
03-21-2007, 09:27 AM
What kind of improvement in recovery time can I expect...? The down time is listed as 3-6 mos, so w/IGF and/or hGH, what can I expect realistically...?
Another thing that concerns me about the surgery is "Starting Over" again at the gym....Will IGK/HGH help me keep my strenght/size gains....? Dont wanna be all atrophied for summer....
And thankx for all the replies, I appreciate it...
03-21-2007, 10:22 AM
03-21-2007, 12:29 PM
Here is an interesting thread.
Post Surgery IGF-1 Results. Shocking.
03-23-2007, 10:58 AM
03-23-2007, 11:20 AM
03-23-2007, 01:20 PM
03-23-2007, 01:41 PM
03-24-2007, 12:40 AM
I have stayed away from the needles so far. Though my time maybe coming.
Can the GHRP-6 and IGF-1R3 be mixed together so only one shot?
Three times a day?
Where is best injection site?
03-24-2007, 09:15 AM
This was my "eductated guess" to Christopher for after surgery. We'll see how far off I was when Grunt gets a look:
"Post surgery rehab, I'm not too sure on. I would guess everyday injects though. Shoot it as close to where the surgery was as you can, even kind of rotate around the site from one day to the next. Maybe 30-40 mcgs per day. I am not positive about this. Dosing is probably done differently for rehab than it is for building. You'd do this for 4-5 weeks. Dosing for building is done every other day at 40 mcgs bilaterally into the muscles just worked. At this dose you can run it indefinitly."
03-24-2007, 01:18 PM
03-24-2007, 05:03 PM
Well Grunt, I have read it at least once and some of it multiple times, but I will go back through it again, it wouldn't hurt me. I definitely recommend that you Christopher read it. It is mostly oriented toward muscle growth and I was wondering if Grunt had any different ideas for injury repair.
I know Grunt hates Sub-Q because it tends to grow intestines, but I was trying to get time release for a short period of time. I drop that idea for now. With Oratrophin gone now I have to rethink how I would approach this.
This is my recommendation at this time, but I definitely still thinking about this. Since GHRP-6 needs three times a day dosing and it appears that IGF-1R3 probably doesn’t, this is direction I headed below.
I would have you start HexaTropin-6 roughly 36 hours before the operation every 24 hours until you drop IGF-1R3 to every 72 hours and then have you start taking the Hexatrophin every 72 on same day as IGF-1R3.
I would recommend you inject 40 to 50 mcg of IGF-1R3 IM (inter muscle) in the upper tricept on the side of the shoulder being operated on which is probably as close as you can get the injury site. The closer to the injury site the better. Anywhere in the tricept or bicept will work. Normal dosing would more like 20 mcg, but you definitely want some to go systematic and get up to the shoulder. Definitely trying to get the first shot within 2 hours of surgery, but as soon as possible after the operation. Some caution about with going into low blood sugar should be taken. Maybe even going a little lower on first shot, they usually have you on a glucose drip, but having glucose tablet available or taken one might be wise considering you probably haven‘t eaten for a while. Probably going to need a helper to pull this off. Your helper having a glucose meter might be wise.
Continue daily IGF-1R3 shots for total of 5 days and then drop both IGF-1R3 and Hexatrophin to every 72 hours.
With almost every tissue repair there is growth facture that works together IGF-1R3 to heal even faster than just IGF-1R3, but nothing seems to beat the pure healing power of IGF-1R3 (except on ligaments which only HGH works on, another good reason). When taking IGF-1R3, it does suppress HGH output when you most want it elevated for healing. This why I am such a big proponent of needing both for healing injuries.
03-25-2007, 11:16 AM
REad 9 pages of Grunts sticky last night....All new to me...I had to google most of the terms, lol.... AS I stated, never injected before....Hope I'm doin the right thing here...
I read your posts w/IBE about splitting the kits and urgin them to keep ORA available...
Ill post again after I get a chance to read some more and process the info...
Thankx for the help man...
03-25-2007, 08:07 PM
03-25-2007, 09:40 PM
Christopher, I am delibrately double dosing the Hexatrophin for the first 7 days. There may be a slight waste, but appears as a time release the pituitary can handle this much. I'm try to jack your HGH levels as high as I can without going to HGH injections. This may result in joint swelling, if it really gets to be too much then drop to every 2 or 3 day dosing sooner.
You can probably drop to PGH-T after the Hexatrophin is gone, it is much cheaper but probably a weaker of HGH booster. For PGH-T, it would be once or twice a day for day of IGF-1 injection and next day after. I wanted the time release for during the operation itself that Hexatrophin brings with as high of HGH and IGF-1 as possible. Notice it isn't IGF-1R3. Hexatrophin doesn't scare me use during the operation.
You probably want to do a test IGF-1R3 injection before the operation for practise. I would.
03-26-2007, 10:41 AM
I'll be on painkillers after surgery, and wont notice symptoms....I ignore 'em....My Dads a diabetic, so I got a meter...What level is danger level, and what do to for me if I get there? Any of this protocol have negative interaction w/painkillers..? As far as tolerating the HGH boost, I'll deal if its gonna give me benefit w/out long term damage....
I read on another board that its essential to not become accustomed to a high level of hgh....the mental feeling that is....for, when it isnt duplicated, the lesser mood feels even more intensified....I equate it to bieng Rich and losing your cash, or never having any cash, so you dont know the difference....
Like I said, never pinned B4, so dont know that I can do it....I went to Wikipedia to find out the difference in the injection methods...Sad, I know...
I figured out most of the abbreviations in Grunts Sticky, except for the AA, BW & NACL preloads....?
I joined the IBE forum...thats where I order right..?
I reread your protocol.....You want only the initial shot to be @ 50mcg's correct...?
You guys think I should tell the surgeon, or just do it w/out his knowledge...?
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