NEW hgh,igf and slin protocol? What do you all think??
- 08-28-2006, 01:35 AM
NEW hgh,igf and slin protocol? What do you all think??
This was from another board from a very educated expierenced bodybuilder. What do you all think of his theory.
edit: read the rules
Question and Answer with Gavin Kane (formerly known as Almost Pro)
In this section, I will take some of the more commonly asked questions by way of Private Mail and bring them online for everyone to benefit from.
I have read all your articles on growth hormone, insulin, and finally igf, but I am still having a hard time putting all three together in a protocol for bulking. Can you outline a simple program for me, something that lists dosages, timing, and optimal use? I have done many cycles of anabolics, as well as insulin and gh, but now I am looking forward to adding in some igf to the mix. Thanks in advance for helping a guy out.
I am happy to help you out bro as it is critical to get the timing sequence down for optimal growth. I have been personally testing different protocols with igf use, having done over 20 different cycles and timing schedules. I also have a few competitive bodybuilders and test subjects off-season testing my new protocols. I have nailed down what I feel is the best protocol at this time, though everything is subject to change as I keep researching.
For now I have found that less is more. I highly recommend using a minimal schedule for all short chain sequence peptides, which include igf, insulin and even gh. I recommend using no more than 3 days per week, 2 days is fine, but no more than 3. The reason for this is that we are trying to prevent cell over-saturation and closure. All three products should be used in a similar manner.
The protocol is as follows; inject all products post workout, preferably after training large muscle groups which cause the most glycogen depletion, hence providing faster uptake of peptides. A sample layout is to inject Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
Immediately post-workout inject 10-15iu of growth hormone IM, using a insulin pin and inject in any small muscle group such as delts, triceps, or biceps. Wait 20 minutes for the half-life clearance and conversion to igf to begin its sequence from the growth hormone and then inject a small dose of igf to create a synergistic super charge of the conversion process. I would recommend no more than 30mcg at this time. 10 minutes later you will take Humalog insulin only, and inject 5iu. I recommend starting with 5iu because Humalog has a very rapid onset and is easy to control with sugar. In conjunction with igf, you will be hyper-sensitive to insulin so start small and slowly work your way up to a maximum dose of 12iu post-workout. You will want to have around 80-100 grams of simple sugars such as dextrose and grape juice and an additional 60 grams of whey protein at the same time as your insulin. You will then eat another moderate glycemic index meal one hour after your high glycemic shake.
The reason for the high dose growth hormone is to take what would normally be your one week intake of gh and spread it out into 3 equal doses, injected pwo. This will create a truly anabolic rich environment and you will also benefit from full uptake due to your pwo depleted state.
So there is our post-workout regime, 3 days per week. Certainly you should take more than this, shouldn’t you? For most lifters, this protocol will be sufficient for growth. For someone with at least 6 months of gh use, 5 or more cycles of insulin and who no longer responds to typical igf protocols, the following regime may be followed: In addition to the above outline post-workout method, you may add additional doses of igf as well as insulin on the same day as your post-workout injection.
I would highly recommend you take 15mcg igf an additional two times per day. By taking less igf more often you will prevent cell over-saturation as well as receptor down-regulation. Creating a cell rich environment that saturates the cells infrequently will target massive cell proliferation. In addition you will take insulin 20 minutes after the igf on those 2 additional injections creating an anabolic rich environment that will last all day, 3 days per week.
For a sample protocol for someone that works out after work, I would recommend you do the following: Take 15mcg upon rising in the morning, followed by 10iu Humulin R or Humalog 20 minutes later. Immediately eat a carbohydrate rich meal with quality protein and low fat such as bananas, oatmeal and egg whites.
For lunch, take another 15mcg igf with 10iu insulin and have another moderate glycemic carbohydrate meal and protein with minimal fats. Follow the above listed pwo protocol to complete your three time injection schedule which will be used three times per week.
If you follow the outline laid out for you above to the letter, you will put on a massive amount of lean mass with a minimal amount of fat. You will need an anabolic and androgen rich environment to complete the schedule such as testosterone and tren in addition to the peptide products. T3 and T4 will not be necessary on this schedule as your thyroid levels will not be affected.
- 08-29-2006, 09:51 AM
I've been following this guys research for a couple of years now. All through trial and error. This guy def knows what works best.
- 08-29-2006, 10:21 AM
well, it does sound interesting. i may give it a try 2x/wk, as 3x/wk doesn't mix well with my schedule (but he says that's ok). that's a lot of slin in one day, 30iu's total? i suppose that ain't sh!t compared to what the big boys take though. intrigued.......kinda goes along with LMD was rapping about in another thread.
08-29-2006, 10:46 AM
mix r with log with first 2 then 10iu log after workout if you workout later in the day
08-29-2006, 10:46 AM
08-29-2006, 10:48 AM
I've seen his pic. He really is almost pro. or should be proOriginally Posted by curqleez
08-29-2006, 10:49 AM
lol, everyday is high carb dayOriginally Posted by curqleez
08-29-2006, 11:47 AM
Yea your right as I chomp on food right now but I guess I should say a SUPER DUPER HIGH CARB DAY especially if you mix log with R.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
08-29-2006, 11:51 AM
08-29-2006, 05:44 PM
This is gonna be my first round with slin, so im only doing 10iu's PWO 3x per week. Starting with 5iu's working my way up.
08-30-2006, 09:12 AM
yeah, be careful with that ****. keep some honey nearby all the time. if you start feeling funny, down it. slin ain't the thing to be messing with. 5iu's is a good starting point though. i'm going with the 2x/wk protocol, mon/fri.
08-30-2006, 09:31 AM
I totally agree. 10grams of sugar per iu MINIMUM. Keep a sugary drink nearby for about 3-4 hours after you take the log. Honey will work but if you start feeling hypo. then honey is so thick it would be hard to get alot down verry quickly. Grape juice or even soda will work verry quickly.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
08-30-2006, 09:57 AM
i just like honey. what's that? a trickle of sweat, a slight bit of nausea? time to down some honey
09-10-2006, 10:25 PM
Does AP recommend 4 weeks on this cycle, 2 off, then repeat?
09-11-2006, 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by jediclampet
No, this is for long term use. You dont wanna do 4on/2off with HGH. It takes a long time to build up. I recommened a minium 4-6months for a first cycle. A year is best.
09-11-2006, 09:45 PM
Oops, sorry. I meant to ask about IGF and slin. Does AP recommend using IGF and slin 6-12 months straight?Originally Posted by FullyBuilt
09-11-2006, 09:50 PM
Not sure. I don't think you gotta take time off with this protocol. He said slin is fine for 4months at this protocol. I wouldnt go any higher than 4months though.Originally Posted by jediclampet
09-19-2006, 06:34 PM
This seems like a good way to conserve on HGH. Am I missing something or are you only taking 30 iu's of hgh a week tops with this protocol? If so, and it works, then that beats the hell out of taking 4-6 or more iu's of day like most people reccomend.
09-19-2006, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by wideguy
I actually planned on originally doing 6iu's 6days on/1off but not im gonna do 12iu's 3x per week. So im not really saving on GH.
09-20-2006, 05:22 PM
Uh yeah I don't know wtf I was thinking when I wrote that but it's really not going to save you that much on HGH unless you where going to run more then 6 iu's ed. F'in A! I tell you the price of hgh is coming down but it still ain't friggin cheap.
09-20-2006, 06:27 PM
I think the way AP recommends to do it is to take your weekly HGH dose and divide it up into 3 post WO shots instead of doing it everyday. Therefore you still do the same amount of HGH per week. He does 15 iu 3 times per week. I don't do that much HGH in a week myself though.
09-22-2006, 05:45 AM
FullyBuilt,, can I ask Gavin a few GH questions?
09-22-2006, 02:34 PM
I don't even know who gavin is. I got this thread from another board.Originally Posted by sidnee
10-07-2006, 06:53 PM
interesting protocol.. I'll try this out.. but I'm starting out with 2iu's as I feel I'm sensitive to slin as it is, especially with IGF.
10-08-2006, 01:31 PM
my question is, is this as effective in regards to fat loss as the standard 5day on/2off protocal? i would think not. however, at teh same time i remember reading a posted study awhile back done over 10 years on kids showing GH was more effective if given eod as opposed to daily because of some type of antibody build up or something.
10-08-2006, 08:49 PM
I did read somewhere that Everyother day actualy promotes more growth. It also mimics the ccle your body goes through.
But real question is how about the sides on this protocol?
10-11-2006, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by getsum27
The same guy who wrote the article says that HGH is best for fatloss when run ED.
10-14-2006, 02:13 AM
so let me get this straight, for muscle building potential, which is low already without aas, it is best to use it eod. but for fat loss as the main goal, plus i'm hoping anticatabolism too, it would be best to run daily?
10-16-2006, 02:09 AM
Anybody got any time under their belt with using gh this way? I was thinking of switching from my current 8ius 5on/2off to 12ius pwo 4 times a week. I hate to possibly not get the most out of the **** though...too expensive!
I wonder though if it would be better to do multiple smaller doses throughout those "on" days.
10-16-2006, 11:04 AM
I'm about to get a gh/slin/test/tren cycle going. I've got everything, just fine tuning the diet before I start.
Is this protocol still ok for JUST the gh and slin without IGF?
Was I reading correct about the gh being shot IM? But still do the slin sub-q? I've done both in the past, but always sub-q for both.
He says to do the gh immediately after your wo, then 20 min later the IGF, another 10 and do the slin. I'm thinking of just doing the slin 20 min after the gh?
Fatloss is NOT the goal, muscle gain is.
10-16-2006, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by CRUNCH
This was written by the same guy:
6iu ed injected sub-q, preferably in the stomach (IM for certain brands)
3iu injected upon rising, 3iu injected immediately post-workout
10iu insulin taken 30 minutes after GH injection
25mcg cytomel ed
use of androgens such as testosterone
The timing of GH and insulin injections is critical. If insulin is injected before the GH, your pancreas will stop release of insulin monitoring due to the exogenous source. GH when injected will mobilize stored glycogen release which will turn into glucose for energy. This will cause a rapid rise in blood sugar levels that will not shut down or stop rising due to the feedback loop being momentarily cut off. You will go hyperglycemic and end up in the hospital. You must first inject your GH, then the insulin; this will cause a rise in glucose release by the GH and will be controlled and shuttled into muscle tissue for repair by the later injection of insulin.
Use of cytomel or some type of T3 hormone is critical since GH use will severely lower thyroid levels. Small exogenous sources are necessary to maintain normal levels and 25 mcg ed is sufficient. This will also aid in body fat loss by maintaining proper thyroid functioning.
Use of androgens is also necessary due to the promotion of anabolism by increasing muscle size that benefits the new cell number increase by the GH. Remember GH will not directly cause muscle cell size increase, just the number of cells, therefore, androgens are necessary to increase size. Testosterone or trenbolone are both highly androgenic and perfect for out stack.
10-16-2006, 03:44 PM
This is different that what the original article said. Here he's got 6 ius ed instead of the eod mentioned?? And he's splitting the injects rather than just post wo?Originally Posted by FullyBuilt
Now I'm confused.
10-16-2006, 06:33 PM
This was an older article. At the top, it says take slin 30min after GH. That was the ? you asked. Im also confused on the GH protocol. First he posts then but then posts the 3x per week method. I think the 3x per week method is for bulking only for GH and this method is for dieting.
10-16-2006, 07:44 PM
Bulking is what I'm looking for! Thanks!
11-19-2006, 12:29 AM
definitely keep this one on the backburner... or the frontburner...
11-19-2006, 02:25 PM
I forgot about this post...This is a great way of cycling each and everything. I did this (or somewhat) close to it this past year and have had my best gains from it. I have never tried it with cytomel...I always used synthroid...might have to buck up and do a bit more research this up and coming year. My research now consists of gh/slin/igf/and peg mgf with sus and NPP. I think the craziest part is the 10 grams of creatine with the slin and igf...something about taking peg mgf, getting that initial pump and then using igf with slin the next day with creatine...the pumps are a muther trucker...I can barely walk after doing deads...oh and this is all mixed with IM injects of gh. Crazy, stuff. I do like the fact that I am eating right at 5800+ calories per day (clean), and still have somewhat of a six pack. The NO2 pathways from the igf are making me totally veiny. I always stay shaved throughout the year...vanity at it's finest...anyways, shaving my legs actually hurts cause of the veins that have protuded out. AP hit it on the head with this way of cycling. Oh how I need to add tren to this mix....hmmmm.
11-21-2006, 04:18 PM
Hey drum you think you could chime in on my post where some of the boys here are discussing short cycles and layering, ALRI BTPB style of cycling ect? I pm'ed you but that feature is turned off.
12-04-2006, 05:14 PM
Can you still make muscle gains off of HGH using it 3x awk without IGF and Slin?
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