first run of IGF-1 - double check my stuff?
- 07-21-2006, 01:57 PM
first run of IGF-1 - minilog by Buzz
Alright, I've decided to run my first cycle of long r3 IGF, and have purchased a 1mg vial from a research company (I hope it's legit) and will run it for 25 days at 40mcg/day post workout. As my workouts feature a lot of compound movements, I think it will be better to inject sub-q as to try and distribute it more systemicly (sp?). Plus, I have a friend who's a diabetic who's gonna help me with the first few injections. I might switch to IM if i feel it's not working, but honestly prefer more systemic results. Anyways, I've also got 2ml of AA (comes with the kit), and some bacteriostatic water. Purchased 30 BD 29ga 1/2' 1cc pins from my friend the diabetic ( he says they're good). Post injection I will consume my normal post workout drink consisting of 54g protein, 60g carbs (about 20 simple, 40 complex) and 10g fat. Then 1.5 hours later I will consume a small protein drink with 23g protein, 20carbs (5 simple, 15 complex) and 5g EFA's. Am I missing anything here? Also, is 40mcg enough or too much for a first time user? Thanks in advance.
PS - im not 100% clear on the rules for source posting IGF, since it's not ilegal, and would like to get my source verified, but I'd rather err on the side of caution and not post it untill I know the rules. Thanks.
Last edited by BuzzSting29; 07-27-2006 at 08:31 PM. Reason: thread's changing/ cycle started
- 07-21-2006, 07:34 PM
Why you would think you would prefer systemic results is beyond my meager ability to understand things. If you are looking for hyperplasia, and you should, then you want to pin intramuscular immediately postworkout in the trained muscle.
07-21-2006, 07:36 PM
ah well you see my workouts dont focus around any one body part - it's a push pull routine and pinning the muscles worked would mean pinning half the muscles in my body - not something i really want to do. And I am looking for hyperplasia, but i would like hyperplasia in all the muscles i work and i just can't seem to choose certain bodyparts i want to grow (i very much like my porportions as they are now and don't want certain muscles to grow faster than others.). If it so happenes that sub-q will not work for hyperplasia, then I guess i could rotate im injection sites every day, but would like to avoid that if necessary.
07-21-2006, 09:43 PM
Peptides are more absorbable through muscle tissue and shouldnt really be injecting sub q. 40 micrograms is fine for a first run but you can expect your results to taper off near the end of your igf cycle with an ED injection procedure. you may want to try an EOD injection schedule. It will last you twice as long and you will in all likelihood continue to see results past 25 days.
an intramuscular injection with a slin pin is the most painless thing youll ever do. if you do a lot of compound movements, simply inject in the muscle you feel is the most lagging post workout.
07-22-2006, 12:43 AM
If peptides are better absorbed through muscles, then why is insulin always injected sub-q, as well as hgh? anyways, it's not that im scared of im injections - i've done im before, but never sub-q - but rather that i don't feel i have "lagging bodyparts" per se. I mean sure I could use a little more rear delt and inner calf, but i'd rather increase all my muscles equally. However, if im is a must, then I guess I'll figure a schedule to rotate injection sites/ body parts, it's no big deal really. Im honestly trying to AVOID localized growth in favor of all around growth. And as for EOD injections - ill have to look in to those a little more to see if i feel it's worth it or not. I haven't seen any definitive results in favor of it, but i'm always willing to try something new.
On a side note - isn't it funny how one cn search for hours and not find any bad notes on a particular company untill after one has placed an order with said company. ugh. anyways, does anyone know if the LR3 IGF-1 from "CO" research is legit? I'm starting to worry that I might have wasted my money...
07-22-2006, 12:55 AM
I know a place with those initials that has a good rep, from what I've seen. What makes you think it isn't legit? IGF effects aren't truly seen for many until long after the cycle, b/c it takes time for the new cells to grow.
Just stick with the rotation of pinning.
07-22-2006, 01:04 AM
It could also be initialed "C1" Research, but I swear after I ordered it i found a couple threads on several other forums bashing it's products and saying that many of them dont work for sh!t. Anyways, The EOD injections sound like a good idea (less downregulation and the bottle lasts 2x as long), but does anyone have any real world experience with it? Also, since my workout (modified HST - i almost dont want to say HST b/c it is very much altered from the normal, but has given me incredible gains) works muscle groups mwf for push, and tts for pull, would eod injections mean that i'd get stuck pinning on the same workout days that i last pinned (make sense?). What about a 2on-1off-2on-2off (i.e. mon teus thurs fri)? Would that have the same benefits of eod injections while still pinning 2x/week on each workout? Sry if this is all very confusing sounding but im very tired and my damn cat keeps trying to rub against my hands while im typing.
07-22-2006, 01:03 PM
I would have to say that insulin is injected sub q because its easier. most people that use slin for diabetes are quite fat althought there are exceptions. a sub q injection is the quickest and easiest.Originally Posted by BuzzSting29
Hgh is injected sub q because it will have site specific results e.g.; if you inject in stomach fat, you will lose more fat in that area. there are people that us HGH in intramuscular injections but why would anyone want to pass up site specific fat loss?
07-22-2006, 01:42 PM
07-27-2006, 12:14 PM
07-27-2006, 01:09 PM
well i just got my stuff today and reconstituted the igf with 2ml acetic acid (100mM). I also recieved a vial of NaCl and Bacteriostatic water. Which should I use as a dilutent (ill be doing IM after all)? Thanks for the help.
07-27-2006, 02:06 PM
07-27-2006, 05:52 PM
alright, im gonna turn this into a mini log of sorts. Currently I am 205 with about 8 - 9% BF. I've been on Jungle Warfare for 7 days and am just sbeginning to feel the effects (increased energy, pumps, and acne). This is my second cycle (30 days gained 8lbs and leaned out A LOT :-) so i know what to expect from the JW. Today was the first day of IGF. Pinned it 20mins after working out after my PWO shake. Honestly that was the least painful shot i have ever heard. I didnt even dilute it, just 8IU's straight into the delt. I dont know what you guys are talking about it stinging, but it didnt even sting. Double check my math, but 1000mcg into 2mL AA (200IU) = 5mcg/IU. Will be running 40 mcg ed and see how it goes. Also, I think it's normal, but after injecting (i aspirated dont worry) the smallest drop of blood came out, and I assume thats just some blood from puncturing the skin. Either way i feel fine, and i really dont think 8iu's is gonna do much, even if it does get into a vein.
07-27-2006, 06:27 PM
You dont need site injections for IGF-1. It was a bunch of hype when IGF-1 first came on the scene but since has been disproved. Once you inject the muscle the IGF enters the blood and has a half life of ~12 hours. Personally I pin twice daily, 30 in the AM after breakfast and 30 mcg one hour pre-workout with hi carbs. Results speak for themselves. I tried spot injections one cycle and got the same results as just rotating quads. The muscles that undergo great stress will up-regulate their IGF-1 receptors post workout so post-workout injections are ok, but no need for site jabs is what i'm saying.
07-27-2006, 08:15 PM
thank you man, thats what i thought would happen and i will be rotating delts (easy to shoot and if it can do anything to fix my shoulders it will be worth it). i dont know why everyone seems to think it has great local effects when it has such a profound effect on blood sugar? But IM it will be. Ill keep you posted.
07-28-2006, 11:16 AM
That is a BS post. Quoting the half-life of IGF-1 is the first sign of someone who doesn't understand how it works. Pinning twice daily is the second.Originally Posted by Rocky82
Although I agree that site pinning is not NECESSARY, it is far from USELESS.
07-28-2006, 12:20 PM
Woah easy there. I've been taught to respect my elders so I'll be civil here. My reasoning for twice daily is a result of personal preference and 6 cycles of use with varying degrees of success, and this is what works for me. I pin 20-30 in the AM with breakfast (100-120 grams carbs and 60 g protein), and the same 1 hour pre-workout with a similar hi carb meal. I do this to take advantage of the pumps that IGF-1 induces via nitric oxide pathways. I did not get anywhere near as good a pump pinning post-workout during my first go around. Also, I personally get too hypoglycemic from 40-50 mcg at one time, therefore I break it up.Originally Posted by Grunt76
And yes, Grunt, I know that IGF-1 receptors are up-regulated in muscles that undergo strenuous exercise, but site injections will offer no measurable advantage. The IGF-1 gets in your systemic circulation and travels to the sites where the receptors are up-regulated. It's basic physiology.
I'm not gonna argue with you man, but in the future you really should relax a bit. Dont bite someone's head off for whatever reason you have.
07-28-2006, 12:24 PM
I will not be pinning twice daily, only post workout. And I have decided to run IM as it is the least painful thing I have ever done in my life. On a second note, has anyone noticed a diuretic effect from IGF? I pinned yesterday at about 5pm ( i usually workout at 1, will pin at 2) and when I woke up this morning i noticed that I looked VERY dry and full at the same time (never works like that for me - either i look dry and cut, or full and soft) either way Ill keep you updated. As for the EOD principle, im gonna just pin ED, as I havent yet seen enough support saying that it works so much better, whereas ED is tried and true.
07-28-2006, 08:24 PM
Well little update on my second day on. Second shot went easy as hell, though im glad i aspirated as i hit a vein or something cause it sucked up blood real quick, so i chose a new location aspirated, bubbles, and injected. This time i diluted with NaCl (ive heard not diluting might cause tissue necrosis) and i can definately tell the difference in terms of needle sharpness. Anyways, I hurt my back today (damn old football injuries) and im hoping this will help it heal faster. Anyways, im leaning out like crazy - it's almost freaking me out - im 5lbs lighter than last week. JW givin me some mad acne too, anyways untill next time
07-30-2006, 11:25 PM
got a quick question for anyone who cares to answer. The last two times ive tried diluting with either NaCl or BW, and i've found i does nothign in terms of pain or anything, only dulls the needle. Is it even necessary? if not ill jus shoot it straight - it doesnt hurt at all. Thanks
07-30-2006, 11:30 PM
The AA from the IGF may sting a little, but the biggest thing is being able to minimize the amount of IGF left in the syringe by backloading with NaCl or BW.
07-31-2006, 10:40 AM
I agree. On top of that, it is possible that the AA be concentrated enough to heavily damage or even kill some cells next to the injection site...Originally Posted by idunk42
07-31-2006, 11:10 AM
hmm well site necrosis would be bad, i guess ill just stick to NaClas my dilutent s the BW did nothing but make my shoulder sore for a day. I guess 8IU's of IGF with 12IU's of NaCl is enough? My slin pine have nodiscernable backspace, only the stuff that is left in the actual needle
BTW, is it normal for appetite to GREATLY increase after about 8 hours after the inj? cause i normally follow a doggcrapp diet - no carbs after 6 o clock- but damn since i started igf i been wakin up in the middle of the night hungry, eating a bowl of pasta and chicken till i puke it seems lol
07-31-2006, 08:11 PM
Dude you should be stuffing yourself with carbs during your time on IGF-1 (of course with a balanced amount of protein and low fat). And yes, IGF-1 greatly increases appetite. That's why its bitter sweet...everyone gets leaner on IGF but its counterproductive to use in a cutting cycle because it boost your appetite so much. But if you ask me, being able to eat 200 g carbs more than maintenace and losing fat sounds damn good to me. Just keep it clean.Originally Posted by BuzzSting29
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