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Should I use INSULIN or not???

FullyBuilt

Member
Last cycle went awesome. 6iu's GH with test/tren/eq for about 4months. I used no inuslin or glucophage. I def have the fat gene in me. Im 5'10" about 230lbs right now roughly 11% but can get fat. I didnt get fat at all on my last cycle and I ate like a horse and not very clean. Got all my good foods,etc.. but added pizza,ice cream,etc.... Now im hearing you get such better muscle gains when using insulin. I wanted to try glucophage instead but should I use insulin? Here is the protocl i'd use or maybe I should use it the whole time. This protocol is for a 20-30week cycle, mine will be 16weeks and will cosist of 6iu's GH again and IGF-lr3 the 1st and last month of my cycle. Maybe use the insulin when im on the IGF and glucophage the rest of the time?

Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only
8IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular
*** alternatively, you could run the Humalog on 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) with your LR3 if you prefer, depending on your cycle goal***

Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following
Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose
Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 80g of whey protein in water
Injection + 60 – 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS
Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog sub-q, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
**keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. Be ready.***
 
insulin is a very dangerous substance but it seems you have done your research. if you are taking igf-1 then i would start out at simply 2iu's and then work your way up from there. igf-1 increases the effects of insulin significantly. you dont want to start too high and go hypo on your first shot.

igf-1 will also keep the slin from making you fat to a degree. i highly recommend using the two substances together.

without insulin our bodybuilders today would be 15-20 lbs lighter. i wouldnt not mind using slin myself one of these days.
 
IMO insulin is not that great and I've also heard alot of other people comment that insulin didn't do that much. I have seeen a few that like it though. For me 6 caps of glucophase(desinger supps product not to be confused with glucophage) works just as well if not better. Both seem to make me veiney and increase recovery time some what.
 
I agree with Jomi start at 2iu's and work your way up, also 55carbs isn't enough for 8iu's it's 10carbs per 1iu of slin. Also try to use Vitargo, as your carb of choice, it's good stuff. And ya load up on your creatine, glutamine and arginine because slin will help transport all of that into the muscle. Considering you'll be using igf-1 you may only need like 5iu's tops. Good choice using it with the gh and the igf-1 though, i am also capable of getting fat and when i decided it's time to use slin i'll be using at least gh. Also throw some t4 in their. Have you tried dosing your gh at 6iu's eod? It's supposed to keep your body from adaption to it, u should give it a shot.
 
Ok so hows this sound. I'll use 2iu's at first and work my way up. I usually take in 80g whey and 50g malto/50g dextrose PWO so im sure under 8iu's slin will be fine since im getting 100g carbs. Then 1hr later i'll have a no fat meal(like chicken an pasta) Then 3hrs later ill have another no fat meal and then continue meals with fat. Also since i'll be on HGH the whole time, maybe i'll beneift more using the slin the months im on the HGH and no slin while im on IGF-1 and HGH?
 
slin+gh+igf-1+t4 is the most synergistic combo, i'd say wait till your on gh AND igf-1, that way fat gains will be non existant and you'll gain a good amount of mass. How much mass are you looking for anyway?
 
Also why are you cycling for so long? Or is it just you'll be on gh for 30 weeks? Also what gear are you running?
 
I have been trying to read up on insulin but theres not much info about insulin anymore on here or logs etc.., but i would be interested if u were gonna keep a log
 
Aleady on GH now. 3iu's EOD maintaining and then i'm jumping slowly into 6iu's when I start my cycle. Cycle will be for 16weeks and will be test and NPP and some oral. I will only be on 6iu's for the 16weeks im on cycle then i'll go down to 3iu's EOD to maintain for a few more months then go off. Im on hrt so no need for PCT. OK so i'll be on GH the whole 16weeks and the 2nd and last week im gonna run IGF at 40mcg's ED. So your saying run the slin on the months im on IGF? I thought its dangerous to combine the two and IGF kinda acts like slin, so wouldnt it be more benefitial to use the slin when im on just the GH and go off it while on the Gh and IGF?
 
I say its a very good addition to your cycle. The synergy between test, gh, and slin...and then throw in some lr3 is awesome to say the least. I have been doing just that for the majority of this year and my physique has had the most drastic changes I have seen. And most are right when they say that slin isn't going to pack muscle on you, but it does seem to be doing a tremendous job at a total body recomp when used in combination with those other compounds.

I was doing lr3 for 4 weeks, then switching to slin for 4 weeks...consecutively. I found somewhere along the way that I really like using the lr3 and slin together...then taking a 4 - 6 week break using K-rala. The combo makes me full and hard nearly 24/7...and I do seem to retain some percentage of that fullness and hardness when I am off.

Definitely make sure you are confident in using slin before you start because it really isn't something to **** around with. However, when its used intelligently, the risks are very minimal and manageable. Start low and work up, especially if you are using lr3 at the same time. I found out that I really don't have too many issues with bouts of hypo by working up to my target dosage using the recommended 10g of carbs per unit of slin, then playing with my PWO carb intake to see what range of carbs I should be in. I can get by on 6g of carbs per iu of slin with absolutely no complications. I also added a morning shot before breakfast on mornings that fell after a workout day of 8iu's which seemed to help my recovery quite a bit and also kick my appetite up a notch for a good portion of the day.

So I say go for it, just be smart about it...and more isn't better in this case :)


Just my 2cc's...
 
Im still confused on how long I should run it and when. I'll be on HGH at 6iu's ED/1day off for 16weeks. Now the 2nd and last month of my 16week cycle i'll be on IGFlr3(40mcg) as well with the HGH. So here is my ?
1.) Should I run my slin the entire 16weeks
2.) Run slin on the 2nd and last month of cycle with IGF and GH
3.)Run slin on the 1st, and 3rd month of cycle when i'll just be on GH and no IGF?
 
Running gh+igf-1+slin is fine you just have to lower your dose of slin that's all because igf-1 increases insulin sensitivity. Insulin is normally run for 6 weeks on 6 weeks off max.
 
Also how are you finding the GH? I don't normally see alot of guys in their low to mid 20's using it. Alot leaner or what?
 
I've gotten better results of GH than aas. A complete body transformation in the past year and 1/2. First GH cycle was 4iu's 5on/2off then bridged for 6months or so with around 2iu's ED then my last cycle had 6iu's in it 6days on/1off and now bridging. I'll come off it eventually, just not yet :) I can basically eat whatever I want on it and not gain an ounce of fat(and I have the fat gene :) ) Also it helped a great deal in adding muscle when combined with AAS.

About the slin though, you say 6weeks on/6off, maybe i'll just run it 4on/4off and 4on/4off and thats it.
 
Do you have any numbers you could give me, like 20lbs of muscle or you dropped 10lbs of fat, i find it hard to get that info from GH users most say they stay the same weight and get leaner.
 
CHAPS said:
Do you have any numbers you could give me, like 20lbs of muscle or you dropped 10lbs of fat, i find it hard to get that info from GH users most say they stay the same weight and get leaner.
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Well its kinda hard to say b/c i've done two cycles with the Gh but I started it jan2005 and was around 215lbs %16 b/f or so and at the end of my last cycle about 3months ago I was 240lbs %12. So a 4% drop in bodyfat and added 25lbs, so thats rougly 37lbs of muscle and a big majority of this time frame was maintaining and dieting.
 
CHAPS said:
I can't wait to try GH, it's just a matter of money
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Its def worth it. Its not so much of a mass builder, but it just makes every aas you take much better which leads to much more mass. You'll stay full, hard and lean most of the time. The only thing is it takes time. My honest opinion is get enough for a year's use. Run 1iu for your first week then 2 your 2nd then 3iu's your third and start a cycle your 4th week with 4iu's 5on/2off for a few months, then bridge with HGH at 3iu's EOD. It will help your recovery and keep you lean and strong while your off and won't inhibit you hpta. Bridge for a few months and your next aas cycle use 6iu's 5or6days on/1or 2off and bridge for a little longer. I didnt start seeing really amazing results till around 5months into it and they just keep getting better and better with time. Don't waste your time dieting with it. You can diet with 3iu's EOD while your bridging, but when you add higher doses bulk with aas.
 
FullyBuilt said:
Im still confused on how long I should run it and when. I'll be on HGH at 6iu's ED/1day off for 16weeks. Now the 2nd and last month of my 16week cycle i'll be on IGFlr3(40mcg) as well with the HGH. So here is my ?
1.) Should I run my slin the entire 16weeks
2.) Run slin on the 2nd and last month of cycle with IGF and GH
3.)Run slin on the 1st, and 3rd month of cycle when i'll just be on GH and no IGF?
Click to expand...

Usually you should run slin only for about 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off. this is usually the conservative approach so alittle longer run or shorter break is accepted as well. You may want to try the slin by itself for the first time just to see how you will respond to it before you combine lr3 and slin.

Like I said earlier I really like the combo, just be mindful of your carbs. Lr3 will make you more insulin sensitive and if you're like me you won't need quite as much slin. Just work up nice and slow and use the usual 10g of carbs per unit of slin until you find your dose.
 
Ya i can't wait to try it out, I also posess the dreaded fat gene, getting lean is the hardest thing for me, so that's the main reason i'd wanna use it anyway. And from what i've been reading it's better to dose EOD then the 5 on 2 off method, the 5 on 2 off method was to make it more affordable. I have a buddy that competes on the national level that did 4 months of it and his skin got the glowing look i hear about and he was stupid lean and veiny but he didn't think it was worth the money, BUT keep inmind he's naturally lean, the bastard, lol. Also he notoriously under eats which i'm always bugging him about.
 
FullyBuilt said:
Last cycle went awesome. 6iu's GH with test/tren/eq for about 4months. I used no inuslin or glucophage. I def have the fat gene in me. Im 5'10" about 230lbs right now roughly 11% but can get fat. I didnt get fat at all on my last cycle and I ate like a horse and not very clean. Got all my good foods,etc.. but added pizza,ice cream,etc.... Now im hearing you get such better muscle gains when using insulin. I wanted to try glucophage instead but should I use insulin? Here is the protocl i'd use or maybe I should use it the whole time. This protocol is for a 20-30week cycle, mine will be 16weeks and will cosist of 6iu's GH again and IGF-lr3 the 1st and last month of my cycle. Maybe use the insulin when im on the IGF and glucophage the rest of the time?

Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only
8IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular
*** alternatively, you could run the Humalog on 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) with your LR3 if you prefer, depending on your cycle goal***

Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following
Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose
Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 80g of whey protein in water
Injection + 60 – 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS
Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog sub-q, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
**keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. Be ready.***
Click to expand...


I'm a lot like you bro. It takes a lot of cardio and a clean diet to get me lean, but I can bulk like a mofo. I'm same height as you, coming off a cutting cycle at 268 or so, 35" waist (not sure bf% - can see veins in my quads and calves, can see my abs at rest, so maybe 12%???). My post cycle therapy looks a little like your cycle. First month is the standard clomid and nolva, but I add 40-50 mcg of IGF-1 on workout days split into two shots, one in the AM and one PWO. The second month is 2 iu GH in the AM working up to 8-10 iu slin and the same pwo. The third month is the same as the first, with just the igf-1. During this time i'm also loading up on supps like creatine (will be using gaspari's SizeOn this time around, anxious to try it), lots of glutamine (which I always do anyway), amino acids, etc. The key with slin, whether you're endo, meso, or ecto, is, like you've intelligently outlined in your post, eat little to no fat in your meals surrouding the slin pins. I peronsally use Humalog, and for me, that means no fats for 3-4 hours after the pins. So basically the only time I eat fats is from 10 AM to 4 or 5 PM (i train at 5 or 6 PM).

You've got the right idea though. Load up on carbs and protein after the slin shots. The flood gates are open, shove in as much as you can. Just keep an eye on the mirror. If you are eating little to no fats surrounding your shots and adding some fat to your frame, you might be overdoing it on the calories. And remember as a rule of thumb, 1 iu slin for at least 10 g of carbs. If you use GH, IGF-1 and slin all at the same time (which is definitely overkill, at most I'd use GH WIth Slin, and IGF-1 alone), its more like 1 iu slin for 15-20 g carbs because you're increasing your slin sensitivity dramatically when you use all 3 together.

Good luck and be safe. Always carry a gatorade, banana, or a bottle of regular soda with you just in case.
 
:goodpost: I don't think Dextrose tabs cut it. I'll be doing a similar method to both of you guys in a year or two, i'll stay on gh at 2iu's eod year round, if i really like it possibly bump it up to 4iu's eod. If it can help me keep my bf down i'll absolutely love the stuff, and i'd be unstoppable in my quest for 320lbs+ :twisted:. I wanna look like a cartoon character, lol.
 
CHAPS said:
:goodpost: I don't think Dextrose tabs cut it. I'll be doing a similar method to both of you guys in a year or two, i'll stay on gh at 2iu's eod year round, if i really like it possibly bump it up to 4iu's eod. If it can help me keep my bf down i'll absolutely love the stuff, and i'd be unstoppable in my quest for 320lbs+ :twisted:. I wanna look like a cartoon character, lol.
Click to expand...


I know there's some controversy on how to dose GH, but I have to say, unless you're using Eli Lilly Humatrope (and its legit), 2 iu's EOD i dont think will do much. I know Glen was saying a while ago he heard through the grapevine that that was the best way to dose it, and if there's literature or reasonably reliable word of mouth please correct me, but personally I prefer 4-6 iu's ED on a 5 on/2 off schedule (just for $$ reasons) for at least 6 months, especially during post cycle therapy. But since the advent of IGF-1, I feel wholeheartedly that GH will become obselete. After all, the only leg up GH has on IGF-1 is site specific fat loss. Once the GH does it's thing in the immediate area it's injected, it travels to the liver and becomes IGF-1. It's the IGF-1 that actually does the magic of making new cells, increasing insulin sensitivity, etc. And when taking into account price, IGF beats GH hands down.

That being said, if you're competing in a show, GH is a MUST to get ultra ripped. But if you're not at most 10% bf when you start using it to prep for a show, it really wont matter. I tend to think of it kind of like Masteron. A great compound in its iwn right, but you have to do the hard work even before you start using it to see it's full effects.

And CHAPS, if your goal is mass, I'd go with the IGF-1 instead of the GH. You can stay lean with a semi-clean diet and a few days of cardio per week. Btw, how tall are you that your goal is 320 lbs?? I'm 5'10" and around 270 and everyone tells me i look "silly". I hope you're at least 6'2" lol!!

Good luck!
 
I'm 6'2 270 @ 14%, and the eod method i decided by reading up on it at professionalmuscle.com ifbb pro Phil Hernon uses it that way, their is research to back it up too that states that the body won't build up a tolerance like it does dosing ed. So ya maybe 2iu's eod is a little low, i'd probably end up around 4iu's eod+. And ya i'm DYING to try igf-1, but i still have TONS of gear to try, lol. I've only done 2 REAL cycles so i've got lots of time to play with new goodies, lol. I'm thinking of trying out Oratropin-1, what kept me from trying it before was the 2 week supply i didn't like that, i'd also do atleast 2 cycles of it at 40mcg. I'm also very interested in the pegylated version of MGF. I've also heard igf-1 really cuts you up fast so theirs another reason for me to go for it. I'm stilling cutting as it is, i wanna get down to atleast 250lbs and STUPID shredded, before i bulk again. Next cycle will be Test E+Tren E, i'll probably also kick start with with some Var.
 
Well the fact that IGF-1 cuts you up is sort of a misconception. It does so indirectly. It incrases your insulin sensitivity and creates new muscle cells. Basically what it allows you to do is eat more calories (especially carbs) than normal without gaining fat. This is why it's ideally suited for post cycle therapy. I'm not too familiar with the Oratropin and MGF stuff. I've tried pretty much everything and all I can say is that:

1. Test is indeed best
2. Tren is great for strength (which makes test and tren an ideal cycle, tbh you dont need more than that unless you're trying to put on crazy amounts of weight in a small period of time)
3. The only oral worth using is DBol (drol is good too but the sides are horrible; same with winstrol. Will make your muscles very hard and sharp but absolutely kills your joints, and this is coming from taking 12 g of flax oil a day while on it)
4. You dont need GH unless you're competing and trying to go from 10% to 6% bf
5. IGF-1 is the future of non-steroidal ergogenic supps. Basically re-defines post cycle therapy and believe it or not, with a proper diet, you can MAKE GAINS IN LBM DURING post cycle therapy!!!

and of course, most importantly...

DIET IS EVERYTHING! When I first started usin gear i thought I didnt need all the OTC supps I used to use (vitamins, creatine, flax oil, pre-workout supplementation, etc...), and most of all I thought I could eat anything and just get big and ripped. Big, yes; ripped, no way. I thought anabolic steroids was some magic potion (as do most younger users - this is why you dont see too many very big and very ripped guys walking around: the key to success is diet). I soon learned though that anabolic steroids really are only about 10-15% of the puzzle. Diet and supplementation, along with proper rest and recovery, are the remainder. This is why i couldnt understand all these guys that were on gear before I was were weaker strength-wise and also didnt look nearly as good as me even before I started using anabolic steroids. I was dieting like a machine and had everything dialed in. The only thing missing was anabolic steroids.

It's always important to research anything and everything new. But it's imperative not to lose sight of the most influential aspect of the way you will look, and that's diet.

Oh btw, I wouldnt waste your time with var unless you have money to burn. The test and tren will be plenty. You can throw in some OTC like MegaZol or even Halodrol. After all, Halodrol is just Turanabol anyway, a decent addition to a cutter, and you cant beat the price. Var to me has always been a waste.
 
The only thing that kept me from trying Var has been the price, but now i can get it really cheap. Also i can get T-bol for the same price as Halodrol so i'd use the T-bol. And ya my last cycle was test prop+tren ace and i loved it, i gained some muscle and dropped a good amount of fat and got stronger, Tren is AWESOME stuff. ANd ya i agree Test+Tren is really all you need in a cutter maybe i'll just use some test prop and tren ace to kick start the cycle till the Test E and Tren E kick in. I also hear ya on the diet, i mean i've only done 2 cycles so far and i'm FAR bigger and stronger than literally every guy at my gym that uses steroids, they think it's an easy way out, but without the proper diet you don't have the building blocks for growth. It's like having a car with Nos in it and not putting gas in the car for fuel, lol. Ya i've heard the same things about IGF-1, that it doesn't DIRECTLY cause fatloss but indirectly, and staying lean while bulking is VERY appealing to me. Also it's effects on joints and hyperplasia. I also agree on the winny i don't intend on ever using the stuff, the fact that it really weakens your joints doesn't impress me at all. I've also heard the same comments about drol but like Tren either you love it or hate it so we'll see. BUt EVERYBODY loves D-bol, can't wait to try it. Also can't wait to try Cycle SUpport for my next cycle, it looks top notch and i've wanted a product like that for soooooooooooooooooooooooooo long.
 
FullyBuilt said:
Last cycle went awesome. 6iu's GH with test/tren/eq for about 4months. I used no inuslin or glucophage. I def have the fat gene in me. Im 5'10" about 230lbs right now roughly 11% but can get fat. I didnt get fat at all on my last cycle and I ate like a horse and not very clean. Got all my good foods,etc.. but added pizza,ice cream,etc.... Now im hearing you get such better muscle gains when using insulin. I wanted to try glucophage instead but should I use insulin? Here is the protocl i'd use or maybe I should use it the whole time. This protocol is for a 20-30week cycle, mine will be 16weeks and will cosist of 6iu's GH again and IGF-lr3 the 1st and last month of my cycle. Maybe use the insulin when im on the IGF and glucophage the rest of the time?

Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only
8IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular
*** alternatively, you could run the Humalog on 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) with your LR3 if you prefer, depending on your cycle goal***

Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following
Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose
Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 80g of whey protein in water
Injection + 60 – 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS
Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog sub-q, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
**keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. Be ready.***
Click to expand...
Deff start low and work your way up, i would also start at 2 IU, in fact im gonna give slin a shot during my next bulk with aas/LR3.
 
sikboy said:
Deff start low and work your way up, i would also start at 2 IU, in fact im gonna give slin a shot during my next bulk with aas/LR3.
Click to expand...

Nicely played bro. Of course this thread is 2 years old and fullybuilt ain't been on the board in half a year. ;)
 
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