MGF/IGF which is better alone/stacked etc.

[TheGame46]

To optimize the effects of both compounds they should be taken together but not on the same days. Here is why: MGF increases the number of myoblast, which are basically the building blocks for adult muscle cells, myotubules. IGF also has this effect but not to the degree MGF does. The other effect of IGF is to actually utilize the myoblast into fusing with the myotubules so that More muscle is created and the potential for further growth increased. B/c of this we can use MGF to increase the myoblast, b/c it is the best at doing this, and IGF to actually use the high levels of myoblast created by the IGF. IGF can not do both things at once. So by using MGF before hand we are maximizing the effects we want out of the IGF.

If you can't tell from the above. If you are going to take any of these peptides alone. IGF is the better choice. It can do both increase/use the myoblast. Where as MGF will just increase the myoblast, but this does not mean you will use them for new muscle. Many people report a pump for a few days while on MGF and then it subsides. This is liekly do to increased myoblast, but they are not all fusing and are just dying off when the MGF is discontinued so not as much muscle is gained compared to using MGF and IGF.

These two compounds however should not be taken the same day b/c MGF actually inhibits the effect of IGF as far as using the myoblast. Ideally a person would take MGF the day before a workout, and the IGF post workout.

This information is brought to you by IBE if references are desired.

 

[Beowulf]

Very nice post :thumbsup:

 

[Grunt76]

Isn't the IGF-1 responsible for myoblast fusion and inclusion of the myonucleus from the myoblast into the actual muscle cell the autocrine IGF-1? Isn't it very different from what we use which is essentially a synthetic paracrine?

Just wondering here, you're the expert...

 

[TheGame46]

Isn't the IGF-1 responsible for myoblast fusion and inclusion of the myonucleus from the myoblast into the actual muscle cell the autocrine IGF-1? Isn't it very different from what we use which is essentially a synthetic paracrine?

Just wondering here, you're the expert...

IGF-I that is produced by the liver still has its prolifer/differentiation effects at the PI3K and MAPK in myoblast. If you are refering to IGF-IEa, then yes this is a key factor in the fusing of the myoblast and increased protein synthesis. This is VERY similar to the IGF-I produced via the liver. Whether or not there is mutual action of both peptides at the same receptros I don't know but it appears that while IGF-I systemically by be produced via GH stimulating the liver, and IGF-IEa in the muscle due to stress, they may have the same overall effect in muscle tissue, but are just made in two different places.

More research is needed, I know that was beyond your ?, but I could just see another one coming lol.

 

[Grunt76]

I guess I'll just HAVE TO start playing with MGF then...

 

[gten79]

Great Post Game. I'm new to the whole peptide scene here and I was wondering what would be the best time to use a cycle like this.

During a cycle, post cycle or on its own?

Also what would be a good dosage scheme utilizing each one?

I'm assuming a 2ml purchase from IBE would be enough for a cycle but I could be wrong. It seems to me by reading here you are the most knowledgable concerning these matters.

 

[TheGame46]

Great Post Game. I'm new to the whole peptide scene here and I was wondering what would be the best time to use a cycle like this.

During a cycle, post cycle or on its own?

Also what would be a good dosage scheme utilizing each one?

I'm assuming a 2ml purchase from IBE would be enough for a cycle but I could be wrong. It seems to me by reading here you are the most knowledgable concerning these matters.

You are most likely right, you came to the right place, but the answer to your question depends on what you want out of it. IGF used PCT greatly increases the gains retained, and should serve as a good primer for future cycles, and IGF during before a cycle will do the same. I think the overall benefit is found in taking it at one of these two points b/c IGF is limited to only performing one of its mechanisms at a time and the AAS will likely interfere somewhat but still yeild good results, just not as good in the long run, but people are usually clouded by the idea of instant gratification.

As far as dosing goes let me know how much you would plan to use/ how long, and then I can give you a better answer.

 

[Beowulf]

instant gratification.

Ooooohhhhh, instant gratification...where can I get some of that :run:

 

[gten79]

You are most likely right, you came to the right place, but the answer to your question depends on what you want out of it. IGF used post cycle therapy greatly increases the gains retained, and should serve as a good primer for future cycles, and IGF during before a cycle will do the same. I think the overall benefit is found in taking it at one of these two points b/c IGF is limited to only performing one of its mechanisms at a time and the anabolic steroids will likely interfere somewhat but still yeild good results, just not as good in the long run, but people are usually clouded by the idea of instant gratification.

As far as dosing goes let me know how much you would plan to use/ how long, and then I can give you a better answer.

I'm going to take you up on utilizing these chems pct. I'm currently running a trans test, halodrol, and M-TST so I'm hoping this would aid in retaining my gains. For PCT I'm using Dr. D's protocol tailered to my cycle length.

Fareston wks 2-5
Clomid wks 1-2
retain wks 1-3
rebound reloaded wks 1-5
Activate wks 2-5
fenugreek wks 1-4

I'm not sure when during PCT to utilize your suggested scheme? And since this is my first time using a substance such as these I'm not sure how much is too much and how long is safe to use them? You really have me sold on the idea of slow permanent gains. I'll be looking forward to your proposed cycle:twisted:

 

[TheGame46]

I'm going to take you up on utilizing these chems post cycle therapy. I'm currently running a trans test, halodrol, and M-TST so I'm hoping this would aid in retaining my gains. For PCT I'm using Dr. D's protocol tailered to my cycle length.

Fareston wks 2-5
Clomid wks 1-2
retain wks 1-3
rebound reloaded wks 1-5
Activate wks 2-5
fenugreek wks 1-4

I'm not sure when during PCT to utilize your suggested scheme? And since this is my first time using a substance such as these I'm not sure how much is too much and how long is safe to use them? You really have me sold on the idea of slow permanent gains. I'll be looking forward to your proposed cycle:twisted:

IF I understand this right you are planning on using both IGF and MGF, I would start 1-2 weeks after your last shots of AAS. If you are doing an HST type program take MGF in the muscles you want to emphasize the day before the workout, and the IGF post workout. If you are training via anothe method.
I have suggested to someone else doing the same thing to do MGF in the day off, then IGF for 4 days straight take 2 days off and repeat. This also ressolve the IGF-I receptor degredation so it can be used for long cycles. The only issue here is getting it in every muscle before a workout. But he is going to change his workouts frequently to make up for that. For you however lets make it more flexible.

So if you are using regular MGF, doing MGF and IGF the same day is not that bad, as long as you are injecting the MGF in the muscles you are going to be using the following day. This is ok b/c MGF can not go systemic and will not effect differentiation in the muscles worked that day if you dont inject into them.

 

[gten79]

IF I understand this right you are planning on using both IGF and MGF, I would start 1-2 weeks after your last shots of anabolic steroids. If you are doing an HST type program take MGF in the muscles you want to emphasize the day before the workout, and the IGF post workout. If you are training via anothe method.
I have suggested to someone else doing the same thing to do MGF in the day off, then IGF for 4 days straight take 2 days off and repeat. This also ressolve the IGF-I receptor degredation so it can be used for long cycles. The only issue here is getting it in every muscle before a workout. But he is going to change his workouts frequently to make up for that. For you however lets make it more flexible.

So if you are using regular MGF, doing MGF and IGF the same day is not that bad, as long as you are injecting the MGF in the muscles you are going to be using the following day. This is ok b/c MGF can not go systemic and will not effect differentiation in the muscles worked that day if you dont inject into them.

I'll probably take the MGF on my days off and take teh IGF for 4 days straight take two off and repeat.

IBE happens to have a sale right now, so will 2 2ml vials of MGF be enough?

And which one is IGF you are speaking off on the IBE site? Is it the HGH or the IGF-1LR3? Also how much will I need to run a successfull cycle and how long should I run it during PCT after I take my last oral? Appreciate the help.

 

[TheGame46]

i am speeking of the LR3, you could prob make a decent cycle with 2 bottles of MGF and 1 IGF

 

[gten79]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMD
MGF + LR3 IGF-1 Dosage Scheme (following intense loading of lagging muscle group)

Day 1
Pre Workout (~1.5 hours)- 75-200mcg total MGF (half dosage in each side)
Post Workout- 50-100mcg x 2 MGF (left and right sides of lagging muscle) following workout

Day 2
Morning- 20mcg LR3 IGF-1
50-100mcg x 2 in lagging muscle group MGF
Afternoon-50-100mcg x 2 in lagging muscle group MGF
Late afternoon (at least 10 hours after first injection optimally)- 20mcg LR3 IGF-1

Day 3
Morning- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1
Late Afternoon- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1

Day 4
Morning- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1
Late Afternoon- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1

Day 5
Morning- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1
Late Afternoon- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1

Day 6+7 (optional)
Morning- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1
Late Afternoon- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1

After further research I am going to go with a plan of dosing similar to this one. Since this is my first time injecting I'm still new to conversions and pin sizes needed. Thus far I've gathered that Injecting:

23 Gauge, 1.5 Inch is ideal for injections into the glutes.

25 Gauge, 1.0 inch is ideal for injections into the quads and can be used for all spot injections.

25 Gauge, 5/8 inch is often used for tricep/bicep/delts

Now I'm assuming this is correct for MGF and IGF-1 solutions as well? If not any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also unclear on the initial mixing of the solution. I understand it comes with a liquid and based how its mixed initially could determine how painfull the injections are.

Thanks again LMD and Game for all your considerable efforts and insightful contributions to this board!

 

[gten79]

After further research I've seen others using 1cc 1/2" slin pins for IM. Is this correct? Especially for injecting into quades, and glutes? If so I suppose I can pick these up at any local pharmacy correct?

I'm also not quite clear on the reconstituting of the IGF and MGF? My purchase from IBE constituted of Bacteriostatic Water 1000 mcg/mL 30mL and another vial of clear solution which had no labeling what so ever.

I understand its recommended to be mixed at .06% but how exactly does one come up w/ that. I'm extremely new to this so any feedback would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime I will continue to research.

 

[TheGame46]

I just made a thread on resconstituting. The slin pins are whats used, if you have a lot of fat in areas then 1/2" might not be enough. I know some places sell 1" 29G needles, but you might wanna just stick with muscle you know you can hit. The AA solution provided is fine for keeping the IGf stable for months if refridgerated

 

[LakeMountD]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMD
MGF + LR3 IGF-1 Dosage Scheme (following intense loading of lagging muscle group)

Day 1
Pre Workout (~1.5 hours)- 75-200mcg total MGF (half dosage in each side)
Post Workout- 50-100mcg x 2 MGF (left and right sides of lagging muscle) following workout

Day 2
Morning- 20mcg LR3 IGF-1
50-100mcg x 2 in lagging muscle group MGF
Afternoon-50-100mcg x 2 in lagging muscle group MGF
Late afternoon (at least 10 hours after first injection optimally)- 20mcg LR3 IGF-1

Day 3
Morning- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1
Late Afternoon- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1

Day 4
Morning- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1
Late Afternoon- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1

Day 5
Morning- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1
Late Afternoon- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1

Day 6+7 (optional)
Morning- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1
Late Afternoon- 10-20mcg LR3 IGF-1

After further research I am going to go with a plan of dosing similar to this one. Since this is my first time injecting I'm still new to conversions and pin sizes needed. Thus far I've gathered that Injecting:

23 Gauge, 1.5 Inch is ideal for injections into the glutes.

25 Gauge, 1.0 inch is ideal for injections into the quads and can be used for all spot injections.

25 Gauge, 5/8 inch is often used for tricep/bicep/delts

Now I'm assuming this is correct for MGF and IGF-1 solutions as well? If not any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also unclear on the initial mixing of the solution. I understand it comes with a liquid and based how its mixed initially could determine how painfull the injections are.

Thanks again LMD and Game for all your considerable efforts and insightful contributions to this board!

Depending on how long you plan on running it should determined your dosage scheme. Newer studies (one of which I posted) shows how receptors become downregulated and about their recovery time, etc. If you are using IGF-1 in PCT I suggest you use the above protocol for the IGF-1. However, if you plan on using LR3 IGF-1 for the longest possible time I suggest E3-4D injections or so. Check out the thread in this forum on it and you can see results by people like Dr.D and others who are having great success with it and are able to push past the 4 week sticking point.

 

[I-Vtec]

so them mgf is worthless unless u f have igf1 then correct

 

[Grunt76]

so them mgf is worthless unless u f have igf1 then correct

Correct. Your body does produce IGF-1 naturally though so that will never ever happen.

 

[I-Vtec]

yeah but enough igf to deal with the extra mgf?

 

[Grunt76]

yeah but enough igf to deal with the extra mgf?

Over time, yes. Once MGF's work is done, it's done. I am not aware of any set time limit for IGF-1 to be administered. There might be one, but if there is, it must be well beyond a month, so the point is kinda moot.

Am I stating you don't need exogenous IGF-1 when dosing MGF? Not by a mile. I'm saying you will still get something out of your MGF if you don't add IGF-1.

 

[TheGame46]

test increase IGF and differentiation