Certain Someon's IGF & BassKiller's exclusive.
- 05-11-2006, 10:47 PM
Certain Someon's IGF & BassKiller's exclusive.
LIONS IGF-1 IS potentially dangerous
S******* over as SM took up a collection from a few of us because we all felt this crap was snake oil ... We bought a bottle from him and ********** tested it .... WE we're right ....
The test is conclusive. There is BSA in the IGF-1 and a buttload of it! The lighter signal for HSA may come from the cross-reactivity I mentioned (very likely).
We also tested it to see if it was
1. receptor grade
2. human IGF-1.
There was initially some ambiguity as to whether some of the IGF was porcine (pig) because of some slight cross reactivities. The diluted experiment clarified that. It is human and it is receptor grade. unfortunately, we ran out of sample before we could do the diluted run to determine if the HSA signal was just cross reactivity related or if there is actually a little HSA in there along with the gobs of BSA. I am 99% certain there is no HSA and here is why:
Pharmaceutical preps of IGF-1 do exist but they are the whole intact protein, not just the binding region (receptor grade). No receptor grade IGF or other receptor grade protein was ever developed for human use or even animal use. Receptor grade proteins are strictly used to determine binding constants and stuff like that in a petre dish. Since receptor grade was never intended for human use, it is produced in growth medium that contains BSA as a stabilizer (BSA is cheap). There would be no incentive to use more expensive HSA to stabilize something not intended for human use. When it was lyophylized (freeze dried), the BSA was included to stabilize the LR3 IGF-1. Without it, the IGF-1 would just fall apart in storage.
Lion does not make this stuff. There are only a handful of places that do make it (5 to be exact). He has to buy it from one of those companies. They all likely use BSA to stabilize their product.
This stuff isn't fit to inject into an animal, little lone a human being.
I will try to be more clear in my expanation here: Lion's stuff was applied to a plate with BSA antibodies in one column and HSA antibodies in another separate column. When Lion's stuff was applied to antibodies for BSA they lit up like Chernobyl! Definite positive for BSA. There was also a lighter reaction with the HSA antibodies. This was caused by our overloading the sample and causing a little cross reactivity. BSA and HSA are very similar proteins after all.
Just for argument's sake, let's say that it was HSA and no BSA was present. What we would have seen is the opposite. The HSA antibodies would have lit up brightly and the BSA antibodies would have had a fainter reaction (due to cross-reactivity).
DO you see what I am saying here? There is absolutely no doubt that Lion's LR3 IGF-1 contains BSA and a LOT of it. 100% sure; stake my life and reputation on it!
There is some slight chance that there is ALSO a little HSA in it. Since we couldn't do the diluted run, we can't rule that out completely. I really doubt that is the case though. Ultimately though, it doesn't matter. The fact that there are high levels of BSA in it make this product dangerous to life and health. Any small amounts of HSA present won't change that.
Lion has lied to you and everyone else about nearly every aspect of this product.
LION SAYS: receptor grade stuff incorporates the whole sequence for IGF-1 with a 13 amino acid side chain to prolong biological half life. It was developed for human use and is the cleanest, best stuff to use for maximum results. (paraphrasing of course)
THE TRUTH: Receptor grade IGF-1 is not the whole intact protein and was never intended to use in live animals or humans. It does not possess the same biological activity of native IGF-1 and in fact, may actually hinder one from utilizing their own IGF-1. It can only be detrimental to growth; not helpful to it.
LION SAYS: The diluent he sells is the best one because it contains the binding protein neccesary for stabilizing the IGF-1 (thus the BP in the name). All other diluents are inferior.
THE TRUTH: The diluent he sells contains no protein of any kind. It is just salt water. The BP in the name simply refers to the grade of saline. Fisher Scientific sells no less than five different grades including USP and BP grades. BP refers to British Pharmacopeia (USP stands for US Pharmacopeia).
LION SAYS: The product is completely human grade and contains no BSA (as per PM's to Skyefire and myself on Superior Muscle).
THE TRUTH: The product, in fact, contains an enormous amount of BSA and even if it didn't, it could not be considered "human grade" since receptor grade proteins were not developed for use in ANY living thing, little lone humans.
Something to keep in mind from one of my earlier posts on this subject. These growth mediums stabilized with BSA contain many more bovine proteins and hormones than just BSA. What they do is just add plain old bovine serum (or fetal bovine calf serum). The serum contains all the proteins and hormones you would expect to find in cow blood. Albumin is just the major protein fraction found in blood so there is more of that than any of the others. There is still going to be things like bovine insulin, bovine growth hormone, etc. A similar danger of immune response exists for all of these bovine proteins; not just the BSA.
Remember, mice injected with HSA DIE WITHIN 4 OR 5 DAYS due to massive hemmorages in their kidneys. This is due to an immune response where they begin forming antibodies to mouse serum albumin. This causes their blood to start clotting all over the place. Apparently, this first happens in their kidneys and the blood clots rupture blood vessels and they bleed to death before further immune response can clot the rest of their blood up. Looks pretty damn painful actually.....
To cap it all off, Lion could well be in legal peril for trademark and patent infringement. The "Long" in Long R3 IGF-1 does not refer to the extra amino acid chain. "Long" is a trademarked name associated with the developers of the derivitization process for attaching the extra amino acid chain. By using the name "Long R3-IGF-1" to make a profit without a specific marketing agreement and permission, he is commiting trademark infringement. If he is having it made independant of the 5 companies liscensed to make it and selling it for profit, he is committing patent infringement.
This is kind of ****ed up but I can't even warn people at SM about this yet because I don't have conclusive evidence yet and he brings in about 80% of that board's funding. I don't think IT has that problem so......
He has let slip in PMs to another mod at SM that he includes Bovine Serum Albumin in the diluent of his IGF-1 product that he is selling to people.
Now, it is true that he needs some type of protein in the diluent to take up the binding sites on the glass or the IGF-1 (itself a protein) will bind to the glass vial it is in and a significant portion of it will be lost and not available in solution. This makes sense. Using BSA as that "carrier protein" however is a really bad idea and demonstrates a profound ignorance of biology. Especially in light of the fact that Human Serum Albumin is commercially available (albeit a bit more expensive).
There are a number of serious risks to injecting BSA:
1) Any bovine derived protein carries the risk of prion infection (mad cow disease). Prion infections are not only incurable and invariably fatal, they are in fact UNTREATABLE.
2. I would expect a severe immune response to BSA if injected into a human. It is similar enough to Human Serum Albumin to get overlap in antibody production. It would be a sensitizer. That is, more antibodies to BSA and HSA would be produced with every injection until a serious (possibly lethal) immune reaction is produced. If you start producing antibodies to HSA, you will DIE quickly and painfully. I have heard of similar immune responses in other mammals to another species’ serum albumin. Mice, for instance, only live 4 or 5 days after being injected with human serum albumin before massive hemorrhages of the kidneys kill them. I expect responses in humans to BSA may take a few months to present but they will include anaphalaxis, kidney damage, and possible death.
3. Unless you shell out the money for the top grade column purified BSA (unlikely as it would be prohibitively expensive), the solutions are not a single protein but just a lyopholized fraction with a mixture of proteins, hormones, etc. Many of these proteins and hormones are similar (although not identicle) to human proteins. Now you have a similar possibility of immune response as the above. If a human began developing antibodies to these bovine proteins, they might also develop antibodies to the human equivalents. In short, the person may develop a kind of autoimmune disease where they are developing defensive antibodies to their own proteins and hormones. Depending of what proteins we are talking about, this could be quite serious indeed. If you develop antibodies to bovine insulin, chances are high you will develop antibodies to human insulin as well. Now, you are extremely insulin resistent. You have a form of nearly untreatable type II diabetes.
4. With all the risks I have listed above (and undoubtedly many more I am not thinking of), I fail to see why anyone would take the chance. Especially when HUMAN SERUM ALBUMIN is commercially available. He could use HSA and eliminate most of the risk (though I hesitate to say ALL the risk).
I am being completely serious when I say that if his product contains BSA, he could be responsible for seriously hurting or killing someone.
Avoid this product at all costs until the ingredients can be verified.
If someone has already bought some, please consider donating a drop or two to me so I can test it for BSA. A very sensitive and specific test exists for BSA. All I need is 50 microliters....
- 05-11-2006, 10:49 PM
The purpose of this study was to determine the existence of bovine serum albumin (BSA) in a preparation of Long R3 IGF-1 marketed as a kit, including “1 mg Lyophilized Long R3 IGF-1 Receptor Grade” by Superior-Research.com. Secondarily, the presence of a “binding/stabilizing” protein in the supplied diluent was in question and was therefore evaluated as well. The kit, as received, included a 10 ml plastic package (vial) of saline (Sodium Chloride Injection BP), a small glass vial containing a white, powdery substance labeled as coming from ”Research Unlimited” and an empty glass vial for mixing the two. This product is also offered on lionnutrition.com, research-4life.com, superior-research.com/, ironcorpsresearch.com and anabolicreview-research.com.
The name “Long™ R3 IGF-1” is registered and trademarked, with the “Long” referring to the clone, not the added amino acid chain on the N-terminus. Additionally, this protein is created from an immature pre-cursor of IGF-1 and is not completely identical to the native protein (the R3 substitution is not withstanding). The fact that this product is provided in one glass vial and intended to be transferred to another on reconstitution would indicate the need for significant protein content to prevent considerable loss of product through nonspecific binding to the glass and syringes (since the provided diluent is intended for intravenous or intramuscular injection, one would assume the final diluted product itself is intended for administration in a similar fashion). When asked how this non-specific binding was avoided, Superior-Research.com provided documentation that strongly implied the presence of BSA. When confronted with the potential immunogenicity of this approach, the response was to back-pedal and substitute a “proprietary mix of human-grade proteins” for “BSA” in the explanation.
Upon receipt from Superior-research.com, the kit was prepared using 4 ml of the provided diluent to give a final IGF-1 concentration of 250 ug/ml and will herein be referred to as the test solution. The test solution and the diluent were colorimetrically evaluated for the presence of protein using the Bicinchoninic acid/Copper II protein assay (BCA Protein Assay Kit by Pierce). Briefly, the presence of protein is indicated by a color change to purple from green. The format of the assay was positive/negative with no quantitation. The test solution was a very strong positive while the diluent was completely negative. The conclusion drawn from this result is that the supplied diluent does not contain any protein whatsoever.
The presence of BSA was determined using a modified dot-blot process. The test solution (200 ul per spot, 8 spot grid pattern) was bound to nitrocellulose membranes held within a dot-blot apparatus under vacuum. Positive control spots (200 ul each) of 1 mg/ml of BSA (Sigma-Aldrich) and 1 mg/ml of human serum albumin (HSA, Sigma-Aldrich) were also placed on the membrane. Any protein applied would be bound to the nitrocellulose membrane. After application of the test spots, the membranes were blocked in goat serum. (This methodology uses the goat serum albumin to “fill in” the rest of the space on the membrane, preventing the antibodies from background staining the entire membranes.) After blocking, one membrane was probed with monoclonal antibodies for BSA (mouse anti-BSA unconjugated monoclonal Ab-1, LabVision) and one was probed with monoclonal antibodies for HSA (mouse anti-HSA monoclonal Ab, Biodesign). Both were specific and not cross-reactive with goat serum albumin. The monoclonal antibodies will bind to the BSA or the HSA, if present. The membranes were washed three times and probed with HRP-conjugated rabbit anti-mouse antibodies (ProteoQwest Chemiluminescent Western Blotting Kit, Sigma-Aldrich) and washed three times. The chemiluminescent substrate (same ProteoQwest kit) is then added and the horseradish peroxidase (HRP) enzymatically activates luminol, producing light emissions which are recorded on Kodak film. The presence of a light signal, indicated by the dark blots on the film, indicate the presence of BSA or HSA.
The test for BSA was conclusive. The BSA film showed nine significant, in fact, over-loaded, signals corresponding to the eight test solution spots and the 1 mg/ml BSA spot, as well as one lighter spot at the HSA position on that blot. The HSA film was negative except for the one spot corresponding to the HSA spot. The lighter signal detected for HSA on the BSA blot likely comes from non-specific binding and cross-reactivity. The greatly reduced intensity of the spot as compared to the same spot on the HSA blot would support that supposition. This laboratory cannot confirm the source of the BSA found in the test solution, only that it was present in the sample we received.
Given the positive result for BSA, the identity of the protein as IGF-1 also fell into question. To begin with, authentic receptor grade Long™ R3 IGF-1 protein (DSLaboratories) was evaluated by dot blot (as described above) to choose the antibody (mouse anti-human IGF-1 MoAb or mouse anti-human IGF-1 polyclonal Ab, both from DSLaboratories) which could also identify that version of the protein. Results were questionable with the monoclonal, so a polyclonal antibody to human IGF-1 was chosen to ensure adequate signal. With suitable standards available, polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis, followed by Western Blot was used to evaluate the identity of the protein in the test solution. Besides probing for human versions of the protein, as an additional control, antibodies to sheep, porcine, bovine, murine rabbit and rat IGF-1 were also used. The signal was strong for human IGF-1, but there was some signal from the porcine IGF-1 antibody. This spurious signal was eliminated by diluting the test solution to 100 ug/ml (sample overloading artifact). The results would indicate the protein is, in fact, human IGF-1. However, no definitive statement can be made about Long™ R3 IGF-1 as compared to mature, native recombinant human IGF-1.
AS reported by others
Read for yourself:
- 05-11-2006, 11:17 PM
Hate to bust your chops, but this is old news. Lion has been very sketchy overall and this proves it. The guys on this board that offer IGF are class acts and no one should have any worries about purchasing from them.
05-12-2006, 12:33 AM
No worries ...Originally Posted by idunk42
It was the first time I ran a crossed it. I found interestingly shocking.
05-12-2006, 01:04 AM
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