New research suggest GH is better to be take EOD
- 05-04-2006, 10:01 PM
New research suggest GH is better to be take EOD
New research suggest GH is better to be taken EOD.
Originally posted by junk at EF. I think some of you here may be interested in reading it.
EOD GH injections are better!..... study says
A very thorough well controlled 4 year study published on
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No.8 3573-3577
clearly shows every other day (EOD) hGH injections to be much more beneficial in the long run to everyday injections. Everyday injections seems to drastically lower your body's sensitivity to it's own GH secretion. The study included children with idiopathic short stature, but can be ever casting on us, normal non-deficient hGH individuals who may use hGH periodically for bodybuilding, sports and health purposes.
The 38 children were divided into 2 groups:
Group I received daily hGH injections.
Group II received alternate day hGH injections.
It is important to note that the total weekly dosage of hGH was the same for both groups.
Both groups received the hGH therapy contiguously for 2 years.
Their natural growth was followed for an additional 2 years after hGH therapy ended. They were all measured at 3-month intervals during the 4 years period (2 years with hGH therapy and 2 years after). Their Serum GH was measured by double antibody RIA kit.
During hGH therapy, both groups accelerated their growth substantially.
Group I receiving the daily hGH injections first & second year velocity was 3.4 and 2.3 SD Group II receiving the alternate hGH inj. had 3.0 and 2.0 SD for first and second year respectively.
Over the initial 6 months after withdrawal of therapy, growth velocity decelerated to a low nadir -3.9 SD score for the daily therapy group, whereas it decelerated in the alternate day group to only -0.2 SD score.
During the 2 years off therapy, the later group (taking EOD injections)
maintained growth rates of -0.2 to -1.2 SD score, which is similar to their SD score prior to the hGH treatment. The daily group also recovered but very slowly, on the fourth semiannual evaluation off therapy. The cumulative 4-year growth velocity (2yrs on and 2 yrs off therapy) of the alternate day group was greater than that of the daily therapy group (mean, 0.9 vs. 0.3 SD score).
At the end of the 4-yr therapy period, the adult height prediction of the alternate day group was greater than that of the daily group by a mea of 6.5cm (that's over 2.5" in height, quite a lot of difference)
In even simpler English, to translate what it may mean to us is that using hGH everyday will only negligibly give better short-term results. Yet using alternate day hGH will give radically better long-term results and much better recovery. As the body may get back to homeostasis much faster.
Remember the two groups got the same weekly total hGH dosage,
so your every other day hGH injections would be twice as if you used
it every day.
The researchers said, the dose was of less impotency than the schedule of the injections. Daily hGH therapy for 3 years caused subnormal growth persisting for 1.5 years (very bad)
It may be that the problem is not enough hGH or IGF-1 secretion but rather
the body's decreased sensitivity to it. The interesting part is that the serum GH levels and serum IGF-I and IGF-binding protein remained unaffected or relatively mutely affected. Even your body's endogenous pulsatile secretion of GH resumes within just days even after long-term hGH therapy.
The researchers hypothesis is that the tolerance may be in the "GH signal transduction in selective target organs in response to the disappearance of the unique pulsatile pattern of serum GH during GH therapy". You see, hGH taken via sc injections do not imitate the your body's own GH secretion.
"Indeed, daily sc administration of GH results in an unphysiological serum GH profile, with peak levels at 4 h and a slow decline over the course of the following 12–24 h. This pattern can be regarded as continuous administration, rather than the physiological GH pulses, with a frequency of about eight per day."
"Assuming that the withdrawal syndrome is related to tolerance that might have developed toward hGH or IGF-I, we tried to prevent it by alternate day treatment. Moreover, hGH doses used in therapy often stimulate IGF-I to supraphysiological serum levels, suggesting that target tissues IGF-I may also be higher than normal. The mechanism seems, therefore, to rest with hGH and IGF-I action at their target tissues. We now show that alternate day therapy
with hGH in children with an intact GH-IGF-I axis prevents the withdrawal syndrome"
Researchers mark the analogy to another endocrine tolerance and withdrawal syndrome:
"alternate day therapy with glucocoricoids prevents tolerance to that hormone to a substantial degree, "Interestingly, glucocoricoids withdrawal syndrome can also occur while the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis is intact (8), indicating that tolerance to glucocoricoids has developed
at the target organ level (9). "
- 05-09-2006, 04:27 PM
The brain of children is totally differnet than that of adults, and results cannot be carried over unless a leap of faith is what we are looking for.
look at studies in old people and you'll see no such pattern, yet. not saying it cna't be true that EOD injection are better for adults, but syaing this study does not say **** for or against it.
05-11-2006, 07:56 PM
There are quite a few bros trying all of these different methods out as we speak. That study has been around awhile and while it may have some indication of what can be done for our purposes, as JM said they are children, far from a grown body builder.
However I have been liking the anecdotal reports from some of those guys. I have also heard that alot of pros run it similar to this. A few BIG shots a week, and guys are putting on weight faster than they would otherwise. It does bring up an intresting point, it is more like the bodies own production of gh...pulsating.
I have a feeling it is highly individualized, I have stuck with 5on/2off for the time being. Although it is tempting. All of the guys pushing this method do agree that you really should be very experienced with gh before attempting this.
05-11-2006, 08:04 PM
Yeah, its good we got these guys testing it out, cuz Im by no means experienced. Keep us updated on how everything goes with the guys you know who are trying these different methods. Also, if they are running logs of it, post them over here if its ok with them.
05-11-2006, 11:06 PM
If I get enough evidence to make me believe I am not just wasting my gh, I may try this by the end of the year.Originally Posted by idunk42
Right now, just keeping with my 6iu's 5on/2off. (Itching to push to 8iu)
Of course I can't find the damn threads...but here is one on AR.
05-24-2006, 12:38 PM
05-31-2006, 09:29 PM
I don't get much time to be on the boards anymore, but when I do I will certainly push around to see how things are going.
06-01-2006, 02:30 AM
Im not experienced either. But I am about 11 or 12 weeks into my first GH cycle. I've mostly been doing 2iu's x 2 ED. Im realizing now how much longer I could run it if I did 5on 2off or EOD w/out spending more money. But I really dont have any previous cycles to compare too.
The last couple weeks my dosing has been in limbo, cuz I cant decide weather Im trying to make what I have last as long as possible, or if Im going to bite the bullet and shell out for another kit or two. So I've been doing 2iu on non wkout days and 2iu's twice on workout days. (First it was to be inconjunction w/ my slin shot schedule wich is morning only on non wkout days and morning and post wkout on those days. But then I stopped the slin when I went on DNP and have kept that schedule of GH only because Im not sure what Im going to do.)
I have about 160IU's left and Im 11 wks into it, and some people tell me how duration is everything. But other's tell me that anything less than 4iu's/day will surely dissapoint me.
A 5on 1off schedule if taken over 20wks would end up saving like 160iu's over the ED dosing. Or using 5iu's would still use up less GH on a 5on 2off or EOD schedule than a 4iu's ED schedule. It's tough to find the right balance between effectiveness and financial stability.
EDIT: I just realized that the EOD schedule is intended to total up to the same weekly ammount. (Duh)
What about the 5on 2off? If some one takes 4iu's ED, and wants to try 5on 2off? Are they supposed to take 5-6iu's/day for 5on and 2off?
(to total up to 28iu's??? Or would I just take 4iu's/day as always except just skip 2 days every week?
06-01-2006, 11:50 AM
This study is interesting nonetheless. I would love to try IGF-1 at 40mcg EOD instead of 20ED. I would start now but I don't have enough to make a difference now.
07-04-2006, 08:49 AM
EOD dosing needs to be compared/contrasted to a 5 on/ 2 off schedule in a study for me to know that the 2 days off are not just as sufficient to maintain your body's natural GH production.
Taking breaks with EOD dosing vs non-stop daily use? Of course homeostasis will win out in the end.
Wouldn't it be grand if we could get a study on EOD vs 5/2 administration done with actual bodybuilders, that are on a diet and supplement regimen geared toward maximal endogenous GH production?
07-05-2006, 06:19 PM
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