IGF-1 concerns

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    IGF-1 concerns


    Hey boys! Some of you may know me from around the board. Anyways, I'm currently looking to try IGF-1, but not during PCT of my current cycle. I was looking to run it solo afterwards. I have been researching IGF-1 & have read the stickies. I just have a few quesitons. I am aware that hardly any long term IGF-1 studies have been done on humans & that this is a risk, like everything else, that I would be taking out of my own free will. I read that IGF-1 affects all cells in the body, mainly skeletal. muscle, liver, kidney, adipose, and some other cells. One question I have is its effect on the heart? Could it also cause hyperplasia/hypertrophy for heart cells? I'm concerned about an enlarged heart/organs. I read a study where IGF-1 plays an important role in the development of cardiac hypertrophy. I read another where IGF-1 helps with heart failure. I also had been reading & found a few studies where IGF-1 was thought to contribute to certain cancers, such as breast and pancreatic cancer? Anyways, these are just some of the concerns I have considering IGF-1. Looking at it realistically, I understand that running a low dose (40mcg/day) for a short period (28 or so days) probably wouldn't have such an adverse affect on the human body. In some studies, tiny rats are getting around 180mcg/day with hardly any adverse sides. So as far as its effects on the body, what can you guys tell me? Lake? Anyone? I'm just a little confused as I've been running into contradicting research information.

    Another question I had was dose & pinning. I plan on getting 1 vial of 1mg/1ml & running at 40mcg/ed. Would I be covered? I suck at the conversions. I'm assuming that 1mg=10^6mcg? So dividing 10^6 by 40 should tell me? As far as pinning, I will be pinning IM & I'm thinking about bilaterally. I have read that IGF-1 causes & doesn't cause localized growth? I'm not sure which the best or most effective pinning method would be? Also, this would be my first pinning experience, so as far as pins, if I get 3/10cc 29g slin pins, how would this work? I know with 1cc slin pins its 2 tick marks (to the 2nd IU). Anyways, guys thanks for the help! Sorry if these are newb questions.

    Also Lake, I saw you guys are out of IGF-1 LR3? I checked IBE & couldn't find any? Any idea where I could maybe get my hands on some or when you guys will be getting more in?

    Thanks again.

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    I am not to sure what you are asking.
    I believe you are asking if the igf will enlarge your heart, however you running 40 mcg/ed for 28 days, there really is nothing you should be worried about. Im not to sure what your goals are either. Are you looking for localized growth or just to keep your gains in pct?

    If you are looking for localized growth i would suggest pinning bilaterally into the muscle worked that day IMMEDIATLY after your last set ( and i mean within 2-5 mins). However if you are looking for a steady increase in protein synthesis over the course of the day ( which would have a much greater systemic effect, if you were worried about the cardiac hypertrophy) Then i would suggest trying it the Lake way 2x a day, maybe tossing in some MGF if your wallet will afford it but, this isnt necessary.

    Also you may just want to try out 20mcg / day at first. I have seen numerous people get great results with these low doses which are still MUCH more than your body produces daily. Either way good luck bro and there are many logs in this forum about different dosing methods so check em out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dertynasty
    I am not to sure what you are asking.
    I believe you are asking if the igf will enlarge your heart, however you running 40 mcg/ed for 28 days, there really is nothing you should be worried about. Im not to sure what your goals are either. Are you looking for localized growth or just to keep your gains in pct?

    If you are looking for localized growth i would suggest pinning bilaterally into the muscle worked that day IMMEDIATLY after your last set ( and i mean within 2-5 mins). However if you are looking for a steady increase in protein synthesis over the course of the day ( which would have a much greater systemic effect, if you were worried about the cardiac hypertrophy) Then i would suggest trying it the Lake way 2x a day, maybe tossing in some MGF if your wallet will afford it but, this isnt necessary.

    Also you may just want to try out 20mcg / day at first. I have seen numerous people get great results with these low doses which are still MUCH more than your body produces daily. Either way good luck bro and there are many logs in this forum about different dosing methods so check em out.
    Well I just had general concerns about using IGF-1. I was basically asking if these were things I should be worried about or if this was just a longshot? Also, I will be taking the IGF-1 probably after PCT is over (I have a 6 week PCT which begins next week, but I don't think I can get IGF-1 in time to incorporate it). In other words, I would be running IGF-1 as a stand-alone. I really wouldn't want a localized effect. I think I could push for a more systemic effect. I'm just looking for some recomp effects/cell division. From what I've read, IGF-1 would cause cell division & give me some new muscle cells to work with. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me? Also I will be coming off a long oral cycle (PP/SD/M-TRN for 6 weeks).

    Should I even bother running this if I can't run it during PCT? I know even less about MGF, just that it's relatively recent I believe? I think an IGF-1/MGF cycle would be too advanced for me. As far as pinning 2-5mins after workout, that would be almost impossible for me. I could probably squeeze it within the first 20-30mins, but definitely not 2-5.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxtruxx1
    Well I just had general concerns about using IGF-1. I was basically asking if these were things I should be worried about or if this was just a longshot? Also, I will be taking the IGF-1 probably after PCT is over (I have a 6 week PCT which begins next week, but I don't think I can get IGF-1 in time to incorporate it). In other words, I would be running IGF-1 as a stand-alone. I really wouldn't want a localized effect. I think I could push for a more systemic effect. I'm just looking for some recomp effects/cell division. From what I've read, IGF-1 would cause cell division & give me some new muscle cells to work with. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me? Also I will be coming off a long oral cycle (PP/SD/M-TRN for 6 weeks).

    Should I even bother running this if I can't run it during PCT? I know even less about MGF, just that it's relatively recent I believe? I think an IGF-1/MGF cycle would be too advanced for me. As far as pinning 2-5mins after workout, that would be almost impossible for me. I could probably squeeze it within the first 20-30mins, but definitely not 2-5.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxtruxx1
    Well I just had general concerns about using IGF-1. I was basically asking if these were things I should be worried about or if this was just a longshot? Also, I will be taking the IGF-1 probably after PCT is over (I have a 6 week PCT which begins next week, but I don't think I can get IGF-1 in time to incorporate it). In other words, I would be running IGF-1 as a stand-alone. I really wouldn't want a localized effect. I think I could push for a more systemic effect. I'm just looking for some recomp effects/cell division. From what I've read, IGF-1 would cause cell division & give me some new muscle cells to work with. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me? Also I will be coming off a long oral cycle (PP/SD/M-TRN for 6 weeks).

    Should I even bother running this if I can't run it during PCT? I know even less about MGF, just that it's relatively recent I believe? I think an IGF-1/MGF cycle would be too advanced for me. As far as pinning 2-5mins after workout, that would be almost impossible for me. I could probably squeeze it within the first 20-30mins, but definitely not 2-5.
    It doesnt matter when you run the igf. The benefits of it will be the same no matter if your coming off cycle or you are running it by itself. If your going for a systematic effect (thats what i would suggest) then you dont have to worry about pinning immediately after your workout. You would just be pinning twice a day, once in the morning and then again later on in the day, with your doses divided up equally. I know a few have gotten localized growth, but I think those people are few and far between. The majority of users that I have talked to, and read about, the effects were much more systematic than anything. So, if your interested, continue to read up, and once your ready to go for it Good Luck! IMO, its a great product and if taken properly you can have some pretty good gains with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by idunk42
    It doesnt matter when you run the igf. The benefits of it will be the same no matter if your coming off cycle or you are running it by itself. If your going for a systematic effect (thats what i would suggest) then you dont have to worry about pinning immediately after your workout. You would just be pinning twice a day, once in the morning and then again later on in the day, with your doses divided up equally. I know a few have gotten localized growth, but I think those people are few and far between. The majority of users that I have talked to, and read about, the effects were much more systematic than anything. So, if your interested, continue to read up, and once your ready to go for it Good Luck! IMO, its a great product and if taken properly you can have some pretty good gains with it.
    Agreed. If your not going for local (which no one is sure about yet, which is why I am testing it) I would definately run it 2x a day for about 30 days with a 2 week break in between.

    The stuff changes ur body comp bro, it will allow you to eat and eat and take in massive amounts of nutrients while ur body takes on a totally different shape; for the better. Remember to keep ur protein above what it normally is, the PTOR is much greater while on igf-1. Good luck which ever way you choose to run it.

    Btw,,, how did that cycle go? hit me on aim brotha
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxtruxx1
    Hey boys! Some of you may know me from around the board. Anyways, I'm currently looking to try IGF-1, but not during PCT of my current cycle. I was looking to run it solo afterwards. I have been researching IGF-1 & have read the stickies. I just have a few quesitons. I am aware that hardly any long term IGF-1 studies have been done on humans & that this is a risk, like everything else, that I would be taking out of my own free will. I read that IGF-1 affects all cells in the body, mainly skeletal. muscle, liver, kidney, adipose, and some other cells. One question I have is its effect on the heart? Could it also cause hyperplasia/hypertrophy for heart cells? I'm concerned about an enlarged heart/organs. I read a study where IGF-1 plays an important role in the development of cardiac hypertrophy. I read another where IGF-1 helps with heart failure. I also had been reading & found a few studies where IGF-1 was thought to contribute to certain cancers, such as breast and pancreatic cancer? Anyways, these are just some of the concerns I have considering IGF-1. Looking at it realistically, I understand that running a low dose (40mcg/day) for a short period (28 or so days) probably wouldn't have such an adverse affect on the human body. In some studies, tiny rats are getting around 180mcg/day with hardly any adverse sides. So as far as its effects on the body, what can you guys tell me? Lake? Anyone? I'm just a little confused as I've been running into contradicting research information.

    Another question I had was dose & pinning. I plan on getting 1 vial of 1mg/1ml & running at 40mcg/ed. Would I be covered? I suck at the conversions. I'm assuming that 1mg=10^6mcg? So dividing 10^6 by 40 should tell me? As far as pinning, I will be pinning IM & I'm thinking about bilaterally. I have read that IGF-1 causes & doesn't cause localized growth? I'm not sure which the best or most effective pinning method would be? Also, this would be my first pinning experience, so as far as pins, if I get 3/10cc 29g slin pins, how would this work? I know with 1cc slin pins its 2 tick marks (to the 2nd IU). Anyways, guys thanks for the help! Sorry if these are newb questions.

    Also Lake, I saw you guys are out of IGF-1 LR3? I checked IBE & couldn't find any? Any idea where I could maybe get my hands on some or when you guys will be getting more in?

    Thanks again.
    Glad to see that you have attempted to research as much as possible.

    Agromegaly (sp?) is of little concern when using IGF, you usually see that more with large doses of HGH. If I'm not mistaken, IGF can increase the growth rate of existing cancer but has not been shown to cause the growth of new cancer cells, so that is not really a concern in my opinion.

    When dosing with a 1cc slin pin each tick mark will be 20mcg (for 1mg/1ml) because only every other tick is actually marked. For 3/10 and 1/2 cc pins each tick mark would be 10 mcg.

    IGF is great for PCT...Any reason you don't want to use it for that purpose?

    As far as dosing, people are doing a lot of different things...most common seems to be 20-40 mcg bilaterally 5days on and 2days off for 30 days, this dosing protocol has worked fine for me...I would say start with 20mcg and increase if needed. Some of the guys on here are doing some more interesting regimines..I am curious to see how this works out too.

    Don't worry about pinning either, It's a piece of cake
    Especially with slin pins...
    Last edited by myfathersboy; 04-27-2006 at 07:54 PM.
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    Derty..I can't find your AIM on here. Mine is xxtruxx1, just hit me up whenever I'm on. If I don't respond, I'm probably studying cause it's finals time. EDIT: Derty, I have a log on here in the anabolics section for my cycle if you want to check it out.

    myfathersboy, I have seen that IGF is amazing for PCT, but I will be doing some traveling in the midst of my PCT and I don't want to worry about lugging that stuff around with me, etc. So, I figure that either towards the last week or two of my PCT or right after would be a good time to run it.

    Thanks for the help boys, you guys have rocked!
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxtruxx1
    Derty..I can't find your AIM on here. Mine is xxtruxx1, just hit me up whenever I'm on. If I don't respond, I'm probably studying cause it's finals time. EDIT: Derty, I have a log on here in the anabolics section for my cycle if you want to check it out.

    myfathersboy, I have seen that IGF is amazing for PCT, but I will be doing some traveling in the midst of my PCT and I don't want to worry about lugging that stuff around with me, etc. So, I figure that either towards the last week or two of my PCT or right after would be a good time to run it.

    Thanks for the help boys, you guys have rocked!
    I don't blame you there, I'm scared to take my friggin multi vitamin on a plane anymore....
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    Ok so I ordered my IGF-1...

    This will be my first pinning experience, so I want to make sure I will be doing this correctly. These are the sites I was considering: bis, quads, delts, & glutes. Anybody see a problem with any of these?

    Now for the procedure behind IM injections (I've been searching this but just want to be sure before I try pinning myself & poke holes all over the place). I backload the 3/10cc 29g slin pin (meaning I poke the IGF-1 & pull the plunger back to the desired dosage, 20mcg for now). Then I make sure the meniscus is at the right tick mark & there is no air in the pin (which there shouldn't be if done correctly). From here, I pin the chosen spot. Now, should I jab in or go in slow? Once in, should I pull the plunger back a little to make sure I didn't hit a blood vessel? The last thing I want is to shoot IGF-1 directly into my bloodstream. Then push the plunger down & voila! Wait a few seconds to make sure it's all in, & pull out.

    So, am I missing anything? Any pointers from experienced pinners? Sorry, I'm just nervous as heck about pinning.

    Also one last question, would it be dumb to also supp things like Powerfull, CEE, maybe some Camphibolic, Lipo-Ultra/Clen etc. while shooting the IGF-1? I'm planning on running regular support supps while on IGF-1. I was just wondering whether I should hold out on any other supps while on IGF-1 & wait until after to attack the new muscle cells by surprise?

    I plan on running the cycle for about 28 days (so a month). Last question, is the IGF-1 ran for a month straight or is it days on/off type of deal? I remember reading it shouldn't be run for more than about a month & then I read somewhere else something along the lines of 3 on 2 off, but I've seen logs where people shoot ed? Thanks bro's.
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    With IGF, I usually pin bi's, pecs, and calves. These are the easiest with slin pins, because the skin is pretty thin in these areas.

    Your steps towards pinning look pretty good. And its always good practice to aspirate, no matter what your injecting.

    The only advice I can give you when pinning, is to make sure that you are relaxed and try not to flex the muscle that you are injecting.Also, if there is a little bit of air in the syringe, its not that big of a deal. When dealing with such small amounts, it can be hard to get rid of the small air pocket without wasting the IGF. So if there is a small one, it shouldnt be a problem.

    As far as running other supps with it, thats your personal choice. You might not want to, just to see what kind of effects you can get with the igf alone, but I dont see any problems with running other stuff with it.
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    I think I'm going to end up pinning bi's, pecs, & delts. I'm worreid about pinning calves & having them get sore & not be able to walk or something.

    I don't think I will be running other supps along with the IGF-1 simply because I want to train the new cells naturally, then I'll try CEE & Powerfull, then anabolics in the winter.

    Anybody know about the routine?
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    Oh yeah, forgot about that one. So far, from the info we got, the best way to go about it, is ED 2x a day. Some try pinning PWO, in hopes of localized growth, but I dont know of anyone who really saw much of a difference. My personal opinion, is to go one dose in the morning and then another later on in the day.
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    Yeah, that's what I was planning on doing. It's a long branch (70 peptide I believe) which is supposed to circulate for around 24hrs. I figure 10mcg in the am & 10mcg in the pm to start should work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxtruxx1
    Yeah, that's what I was planning on doing. It's a long branch (70 peptide I believe) which is supposed to circulate for around 24hrs. I figure 10mcg in the am & 10mcg in the pm to start should work.
    I think its 83 peptide, but no biggie . Im not sure though, but I thought the half life was somewhere around 12-13 hours, but either way, as long as your dosing one AM, and one PM your good to go. Good luck man, and keep us updated on how everything is going!
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    Hi guys
    I have a question when you say pin immediately after the workout. My question is if I am doing chest and back. Are you saying pin the pecs as soon as my chest workout is done? Then train back and pin my lats? Or do I work chest and back and then pin. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by endless
    Hi guys
    I have a question when you say pin immediately after the workout. My question is if I am doing chest and back. Are you saying pin the pecs as soon as my chest workout is done? Then train back and pin my lats? Or do I work chest and back and then pin. Thanks.
    You would pin after your entire workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by endless
    Hi guys
    I have a question when you say pin immediately after the workout. My question is if I am doing chest and back. Are you saying pin the pecs as soon as my chest workout is done? Then train back and pin my lats? Or do I work chest and back and then pin. Thanks.
    Depends on what you plan on pinning. If your going to pin chest, end with chest and pin directly after ur last set. Same goes for back.
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    Is the fridge really the best place to store IGF-1 or would any indoor situation be ok (like a closet drawer)? I'm going out of town for a week or 2 & I have my IGF-1 in the fridge in one of the little droors. I figured it's cool because it was shipped to me in a coldpack. I did research this, I just want to know what the BEST place to store it would be. I plan on using it within the month.
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    Ok, forget that last question. I was being a retard as usual. Anyways, here's a math question:

    If I have 1mg/1ml IGF-1 it's 1000mcg/1ml. Now, if I have 3/10cc pins, each tick is 10mcg correct? So to pin 20mcg I would hit 2 units, 30mcg 3, 40mcg, 4 & so on?

    Also this is what I'm considering running, so critque away:

    I plan on running 40mcg ed pinned bilaterally & split into am/pm doses. I'm going more for it's systemic recomp effects than for localized growth. I've read that 5 on 2 off seems to be the best way to run it, so I'm pretty sure I'd follow that protocol. Any suggestions or anything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxtruxx1
    Ok, forget that last question. I was being a retard as usual. Anyways, here's a math question:

    If I have 1mg/1ml IGF-1 it's 1000mcg/1ml. Now, if I have 3/10cc pins, each tick is 10mcg correct? So to pin 20mcg I would hit 2 units, 30mcg 3, 40mcg, 4 & so on?

    Also this is what I'm considering running, so critque away:

    I plan on running 40mcg ed pinned bilaterally & split into am/pm doses. I'm going more for it's systemic recomp effects than for localized growth. I've read that 5 on 2 off seems to be the best way to run it, so I'm pretty sure I'd follow that protocol. Any suggestions or anything?

    You got it right...I would personnaly dilute the IGF to 1mg/2ml with AA...so each tick would be 5mcg then backload with BW...the increased volume really helps me measure accurately and waste as little IGF as possible...

    Dosing looks good....My only suggestion would be to start with 20mcg, see if you get results from that and adjust accordingly....It will save you money and as you know, it's always better to use the smallest amount that you can get results from.

    Good luck with your cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by myfathersboy
    You got it right...I would personnaly dilute the IGF to 1mg/2ml with AA...so each tick would be 5mcg then backload with BW...the increased volume really helps me measure accurately and waste as little IGF as possible...

    Dosing looks good....My only suggestion would be to start with 20mcg, see if you get results from that and adjust accordingly....It will save you money and as you know, it's always better to use the smallest amount that you can get results from.

    Good luck with your cycle.
    Is there a reason to use the BW besides accurate dosing, such as less sting? I've never pinned this stuff so I have no clue how much it stings, but if it hurts as much as LipoUltra+Cap HP, I figure I'd rather dish out the cash & get the BW. Also I know not to mix the IGF-1 with BW until I am actually going to shoot it so I don't kill the IGF-1. Do I really have to backload the pin all the way? It just seems like a lot of liquid to be shooting into my muscles. I was thinking about starting at 20mcg, but I'm scared about not seeing results & having to up the dose, then buy another vial. I've read between 20-40 mcg would be good. I'll do the math & see if I can run it at 20 for a week & around 30-35 or even 40 for the remainder of the time. What do you think?
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    You definitely dont need to fill the rest of the syringe with BW. I usually only fill up to about 200mcg's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxtruxx1
    Is there a reason to use the BW besides accurate dosing, such as less sting? I've never pinned this stuff so I have no clue how much it stings, but if it hurts as much as LipoUltra+Cap HP, I figure I'd rather dish out the cash & get the BW. Also I know not to mix the IGF-1 with BW until I am actually going to shoot it so I don't kill the IGF-1. Do I really have to backload the pin all the way? It just seems like a lot of liquid to be shooting into my muscles. I was thinking about starting at 20mcg, but I'm scared about not seeing results & having to up the dose, then buy another vial. I've read between 20-40 mcg would be good. I'll do the math & see if I can run it at 20 for a week & around 30-35 or even 40 for the remainder of the time. What do you think?
    Yeah, AA can sting a little, and yes BW can help that a little, but the sting is not bad enough to add BW just for that purpose IMO. No, you don't have to backload the pin all the way...I usually do 200mcg just cause I like to have plenty of volume to work with.....and it's really not as much liquid as you might think

    That sounds good...If I'm not mistaken 20mcg for the first week and 40mcg for the three following weeks (if necissary) would give you 27 days worth...If you are following a 5on/2off protocol that should give you more than enough...you wanna check my math though...not my strongest subject...
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