IGF-1RL/VAR/& everything under the Sun
- 04-16-2006, 10:32 PM
IGF-1RL/VAR/& everything under the Sun
First of all I'm a complete NEWB when its comes the IGF. I also just happen to order 3 bottle of IGF-!RL from joe. I need you guys to elp me out. Steer me in the right direction. I would greatly appreciate it. So here are some questions:
1:IM or sub-Q, what the difference besides IM causing localized effects )so I've read) verses Sub-Q whish just seems to go systematic.
2: I'm using slin pins. Which muscles are perferable? bis, tris, shoulder, and...
3: Would it be wise to every once in ina while hit a Sub-Q inject or does it even matter.
4: How long will these 3 bottle last me at 40iu ED (I'm 173.2lbs) x2 ED
5: When/where doinject? I read post work out into the muscle you worked.
6: I'm running it with VAR and continuing my body recomp as planned. Do you guys running or not running any supps while on it?
7: I hear nothing but the best from joe's product and I should recieve mine tomorrow. Anyone care to share past experiences?
Those quations being asked .... My main focuse is continuing to lower BF%. The Var and IGF-1RL is to add some LBM in there because I know I'm lossing some. I have been this skinny in a while. I have abs, but because of my stubern love handles it looks sloppy. I still have DNP, Clen, Albuterol, and ECA on hand which I will continue to cycle until I get to where I want to be.
& you guys tell me if this is true, I was once told that if you shrink a fat cell down small enough it dies, per say, and will not come back. True or false.
Help me out guys, i need it:
- 04-16-2006, 10:54 PM
- 04-16-2006, 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM
I did bi's, tri's, pec's and quads. More so in my arms and they grew like mofo's. Some do calves as well as lats.
I would stay IM.
80mcgs divided into 3000 mcgs should be 37 days.
I prefered to poke when I woke and post workout the muscles I worked.
numbers 6 and 7 can't help with.
04-16-2006, 11:06 PM
I have, very briefly -- do you know how boring that is. I'm trying to create discussion. Thanks. NEXT!!Originally Posted by Eric
04-16-2006, 11:13 PM
No I'll only be doing 40iu total a day so I'll actaually have 74day of pure pin cushin fun.Originally Posted by parttimer
40iu split is 20iu. Think thats enough? Im only 173.2, down from 195. I was 207lbs and moderatly lean but I let myself go, so this is what get. 20iu ebough for my weight/size?
04-16-2006, 11:41 PM
Hey bro, From reading some of your other posts you seem like a nice enough fella...but he is right, the stickies would answer 90% of your questions with about 5 minutes of reading.Originally Posted by Eric
As for the stuff that the stickies don't address....
There is some occasional disagreement about IM or Sub-q...I prefer IM 'cause there does seem to be a bit of site specific benifit. There is going to be systemic distribution no matter which method you use, so if agromegaly (sp?) is something that worries you...well...don't use IGF (although I believe worrying about that from IGF is silly).
I book-end hormone cycles with IGF-1 (LR3), the theory is that it recruits new cells for growth before cycle and helps get the boys back in the game post-cycle (the latter I can personally attest to)
I don't know who Joe is or what company he is with so I can be of no help there.
Hope this helps and Enjoy your IGF!!!!
04-16-2006, 11:53 PM
I'm looking for experienced feed back, not repetitive wall paper. Like I said, I would like to create conversation about those stickies. So lets talk about them.
04-17-2006, 12:09 AM
Yeah, I thought that is what we were doing, I gave you a little look at my personal experiences and made a friendly suggestion...it's hard to have a discussion about anything without the base knowledge to do so...Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM
But hey, I'm not into e-arguments...people have a tendency to be a lot braver with their words than they would be if those words required any physical enforcement...so good luck trying to "create conversation" without "repetitive wallpaper" that you find "boring", without basic knowledge of the subject matter.
Feel free to PM me if you want to continue a friendly discussion without getting sensitive and defensive.
04-17-2006, 01:13 AM
The closest thin to IGF is hCG when it comes to slin pins and sub-q injections. Is it anything likwee that? I just bought a box of 100 29g needles so I hope so.
When using AAS I only hit the quads. So i dont have much experience injecting anywhere else.
74 days worth og IGF-1RL, whats that going to do for me? in terms of muscle and BF? I know diet will determine the out come, I just curious.
I'm going to go brefly read those stickeis again....
04-17-2006, 01:29 AM
Only go 30 days at a time with IGF... after 30 days it seems to lose its effect.Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM
As for gains... OBVIOUSLY that is all within yourself... every one is different.. but most will respond with only a couple pounds at tops... but remember... these are going to be new undeveloped cells... so mature them, and your golden.
The Historic PES Legend
04-17-2006, 01:37 AM
A couple meaning 5lbs? because I would gladly take 5lbs of permanant matured muscle. & bassically what your saying is i hvae 2 cycles as well at my body size. + the var. I'm looking to gain some decent size.Originally Posted by DAdams91982
04-17-2006, 02:08 AM
You equating dosage to IU is not correct.
1mg LR3IGF equals 1000mcg.
easy way of dosing:
2ml total 100mM Acetic Acid added to 1mg lr3IGF-1.
that equals: 500mcg/ml
Slin pins come in 3/10, 1/2cc, and 100iu sizes.. each type has gradiation/ticks representing 100iu on the barrel(IU is used for insulin) per CC/ML.
But when using IGF, you go by your dosage born from the dilution.
So say you added 2ml of AA to the powder... or if you already had 1ml of AA premixed, then you add 1ml AA..
500mcg/ml right? still with me? so going by the increments on the slin pins, for each gradiation (tick mark) that would equal 5mcg of IGF.
a 3/10 slin pin shows each gradiation clearly. I recommend that type, but you sound like you already bought a box of slin pins..
Ok so now to dosing.. You are toying with the idea of running it for longer than what is purported to be effective. You are going to waste a lot of it.
You are also planning on running a higher dose than needed. 40mcg will do you fine.
Run 1mg for 25 days. Break it into 40mcg per day. 20mcg per slin pin.. shoot IM into muscles trained. 20mcg on a slin pin at said dilution above is 4 ticks on the pin. Draw that into TWO pins.. boom.. 40mcg. If it stings, then you can dilute the solution in the barrel with NACL, you big baby.
to reiterate, dilute it, know the dosage, keep it to 40mcg a day split bilaterally, run it for 25 days... enjoy.
04-17-2006, 09:43 AM
04-17-2006, 02:30 PM
WOW ... I'm so lost. I was under the impression that i got a bottle of powder and a bottle of solution which i would mix and keep refrigerated until use. then draw the needed dose and stick.Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
Are you saying I have to compound the two every dose?
You make it sould easy, but I'm no here near understading it enough to use it. so I'm going to do some studying up.
04-17-2006, 02:49 PM
nah bro, you just dissolve the powder with AA and refridgerate until use.
You do not reconstitute each time.
It's really simple.. Either you get a bottle of lypholized powder and add 2ml AA or you get a bottle of 1ml/1mg already reconstituted and add one more ML of AA.. both ways give you a 500mcg/ml dilution.. you can dilute it to any dosage, but I feel 500mcg/ml is really the most efficient.
100mM AA is the key. You shouldn't dilute it with anything else. The NACL is just to dilute the solution in the PIN before pinning, if you can't handle the sting of AA.. .but I never use NACL.. I go straight up AA baby.
In your reading you will find your answers, I just wanted to expedite your learning in regards to dosing.
04-17-2006, 04:40 PM
04-17-2006, 06:57 PM
Which is exactly why you need to research more before you do this stuff. We aren't here to run your cycle for you. You have to do the research for yourself. If you have specific questions that is one thing but specifying that reading about LR3 IGF-1 is "boring" just shows your immaturity on the matter (not necessarily in general). Whether it's boring or not you have to do it.Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM
"100mM AA is the key. You shouldn't dilute it with anything else. The NACL is just to dilute the solution in the PIN before pinning, if you can't handle the sting of AA.. .but I never use NACL.. I go straight up AA baby."
100mM= 100 millimolar
NaCl= sodium chloride = salt
AA= acetic acid
What he is saying is to get 100millimolar acetic acid and put 1 milliliter of it in 1mg of LR3 IGF-1. Then he is saying once you draw the mixture out of the vial (the AA+IGF-1), pull some NaCl into the pin with the other mixture to help keep the pain down a bit. Personally if you can't handle AA by itself you are a wimp.
And saying I just want to "start discussion", you have to give more specifics. There are plenty of topics in here that have plenty of conversation on the subject in them.
I am in no way flaming or being a **** because you do seem like a nice guy but lets be realistic here.
04-17-2006, 08:23 PM
Hey hey now ... relax. You are right. I was wrong in my previous statments. I'm just here to learn; especially now that this IGF seems to be a little more difficult to grasp than I thought. Originially, I was thinking of it in terms of hCG. Mix our sh*t and pin, you know?
Will this all be included in my kits:
100mM= 100 millimolar
NaCl= sodium chloride = salt
AA= acetic acid
Essentially, if im thinking correctly now, I mix AA with/to 100mM and pin 20mcg x2 which is 40mcg ED. Anywhere close to understanding yet?
Also, How do I convert IU to MCG?
More to lear,
04-17-2006, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM
100mM isn't how much you put in. M is for molarity, m is for milli. You want to put 1mL of 100mM AA solution in with 1mg of LR3 IGF-1. You should only be given 100mM AA anyways, and usually they only give you 1mL of it anyways so if you read the vial it will probably tell you and you can probably pour the whole contents in there.
Ubiquitous already explained all of this to you but I will reiterrate once more. If you put 1mL of solution with 1mg of IGF-1 then 10IU on a slin pin will equal 100mcg of IGF-1.
04-17-2006, 08:40 PM
OK OK I think I'm understanding now. My kit should have arrived today, but hasnt. I should probably look into that.
I dont plan on using it for a while anyway. When I do though, since I have around 74 days worth @ 40mcg, how many cycle would you say that is ... 1,2, maybe 3?
04-17-2006, 11:56 PM
Ok, I have a dumb question. When you were qouting 4 ticks would be 20mcg. Were you talking about a 1/2cc pin or a 1cc pin?Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
Or are you saying it doesn't matter whether it's a 1/2cc or 1cc pin, a tick mark is a tick mark?
04-17-2006, 11:58 PM
04-17-2006, 11:58 PM
04-18-2006, 12:01 AM
Gotcha, after I made that post I reread what you had written. Thanks for the breakdown LakeMount. That has to be one of the best explanations I have ever read.Originally Posted by LakeMountD
04-18-2006, 12:03 AM
Wait, LakeMount didn't post that originally. Oops.
Ubiquitous comes through with the explanation.
04-18-2006, 12:15 AM
no problem, I try to help... between my swings of outright belligerence... which will get worse mind you, as I'm starting PCT tomorrow.
04-18-2006, 02:26 AM
I'm doing 40mcg once ED split into two doses of 20mcg. Now, I'll be hitting the the bi (maybe so other areas as well) so I will use them for example right quick.
- Do I inject 20mcg into each bi pre/post work out - or AM/PM injections?
- Also, what are some other site to stick?
04-18-2006, 02:36 AM
Post workout is the most common... I've done Pre as well. 5 runs have been post.. one Pre... same results.. good results.
You can pin any site that will allow a 1/2 inch needle to penetrate the muscle. Biceps, Delts, Pecs (if you're lean)...Traps, calves.. lats... triceps.. quads.. any site that is lean enough for an IM shot with the pin. It's rather simple bro.. and a search would turn this information up quicker than any other. It's the basics.
04-18-2006, 02:43 AM
I like how you keep urging me to google and such.
I have 40mcg right? do I inject all this at once though? so there will be severl pins post cycle??? Why do I split the dose to 20mcg? I'm ot working out 2x a day.
04-18-2006, 02:46 AM
Not google.. search the site. It's easy as pie. I'm making it too easy for you by answering everything so eloquently... lol
But I'm feeling nice today... however tomorrow I'm going to be angry.
bilateral injections... 20mcg into one Bicep.. 20mcg into another...
bilateral.. means boths sides..
Left pec, right pec..
if you want less risk of infections, and to ensure sterility, use TWO SLIN PINS EACH DAY WITH 20MCG EACH...
If you diluted the IGF with 2ml of AA.. that's 4 ticks or the 4th IU mark... if you diluted it with 1ml of AA, or it came like that and you didn't add AA.. that's 2 ticks or 2 IU's...
I dilute it to a dosage of 500mcg (2ml Acetic acid) because it's easier to read this way, (the 4 ticks/IU's) makes the dosing easier in my eyes... covered this in my above posts...
And to give credit where credit is due, Lake covered this throroughly in his many hours of writing on this particular subject. That is why people post such things, to use as a resource during a search.. hint hint
04-18-2006, 02:54 AM
Well, I certainly appreciate your help. I at least I'm getting replies - your keeping me busy. I'd normally be reading some stupid post about "how does my cycle look." lol, I guess this is what we're doing here huh?
Much apperciated anyhow,
04-18-2006, 03:12 AM
I just realized that 100 pinz isnt going to be enough for 74 doses worth of this stuff. Lukly I'm not doing it all at once. My order better get here tomorrow, it was sent last Friday I think.
Ubiquitous: what are your thoughts on T3 - short and long term pros and cons.
04-18-2006, 03:25 AM
buy another box or two of 3/10 insulin pins... you'll like 'em for IGF.. trust me.
I like T3 personally.. I like to run it with an AAS cycle as it is very synergistic.. increases protein synthesis... has quite a few benefits.. especially while bulking.. keeping fat gain to a minimum..
I just ran it for 8 weeks and never went higher than 50mcg/day. I ramped up slowly from 25mcg, maintained at 50mcg, and then tapered slowly to 12.5mcg... the taper should be the majority of the run.. There are a lot of good articles posted about optimal T3 cycles.. You can recover quite well if you taper nicely. There are also staggered on/off protocols that have some merit.
A good Thyroid PCT includes L-tyrosine, Kelp Meal, L-cysteine, Coleus Forskholin, Guggul, zinc, sellenium....
people overdo T3 I think.. guage your reaction by taking your body temp in the morning.. if it's elevated (above the normal 98.6 f) then it's working... you don't need to overdo it.. The key with anything, especially AAS or T-3.. what have you.. is to use the lowest EFFECTIVE dosage to meet your goals.... people over do sh1t and pay the price... be smart about it and take it slow.. it's not a race.
04-18-2006, 03:41 AM
I was thinking about trying it. I'm ust scared of the long term cons, that being what hypothyroidism or the other? You knowwhat I'm tryng to say. And your right, I dont want to be one of those men who ar all Fd up because he over did it when he was younger all to look good or but on a few pounds of LBM.
I'm going to read into it a bit more. Its might be a nice addition to progress; that bing just tryig to lean out and get back down to 10%-12%.
By what incriments do you taper? Your in reall good shape.
04-18-2006, 05:31 AM
Start Tapering ED or Eod? You would increase dose by 3mcg, 4mcg, or 5mcg incriments?? For 8 weeks. = 56 days, 28 days taper up and 28 tapering down.
Last edited by SprtNvolcoM; 04-18-2006 at 12:45 PM.
04-18-2006, 01:27 PM
I actually increased by 12.5mcg increments. I have 25mcg tabs and cracked them in half with my thumbs. I took them immediately in the morning upon waking. I didn't ingest anything for an hour afterwards.
Of the three "chapters" of your T3 cycle... the Taper DOWN should be the longer of the three.. I forget the recommended ratio, but Try like 30% ramp up, 30% maintenence, and 40% taper down... search around and read a little. t3 isn't supposed to permanently shut down your thyroid.. but your thyroid is slow to react to anything.. including recovery.. so treat it nicely.. it is a moderater of quite a few delicate processes in the body.. treat it nicely as you would anything else.
I actually would only run it once you are fully experienced in how your body acts to certain compounds, and when you "feel" ready... Nothing we discuss here are for beginners... that's been proven just by the amount of knowledge you need to do it safely.. you won't have someone like me holding your hand.. you know?
04-18-2006, 02:15 PM
I appreciate you taking the time to converse with me over these issues. You've been a big help.
You seem to knowa lot, let me ask you. Have you ever hear of someone becoming estro sensitive from AAS use, after which they put on large emounts of fat dring PCT even without a diet change?
04-18-2006, 04:47 PM
04-18-2006, 05:29 PM
04-18-2006, 05:33 PM
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