Just another thing to let you guys ponder.

[LakeMountD]

As you guys know MGF is a spliced variant of IGF-1. And we know MGF is greatly increased following exercise and isn't tapered off until around day 4 in mice while IGF levels begin to rise at the same time. We know MGF inhibits myotube formation but to what extent? To further back my "don't use MGF past 24-36 hours after a workout, check out these amounts that the body naturally expresses.

Day 1
IGF-Ea: 3 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.40 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA

Day 2 (
IGF-1Ea: 4 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.46 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA

Day 3
IGF-1Ea: 4.5 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.43 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA


Day 4
IGF-1Ea: 5 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.38 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA


Day 5
IGF-1Ea: 7 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.35 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA

Day 6
IGF-1Ea: 7.5 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.27 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA

Day 7
IGF-1Ea: 8 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.09 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA


Values for Days 1-7
IGF-1Ea pg/ug --------MGF pg/ug
3-----------------0.40 (~86% less)
4-----------------0.46 (~89% less)
4.5---------------0.43 (~91% less)
5-----------------0.38 (~93% less)
7-----------------0.35 (~95% less)
7.5---------------0.27 (~97% less)
8-----------------0.09 (~99% less)

Interesting trend here, MGF drops 2% per day with respect to IGF-1Ea.

This is a huge difference between systemic IGF-1 and MGF. Yet, think of the massive dosages we are taking in! We may be replenishing our satellite cell pool but if taken too long we could be severely limiting our gains due to decreased differentiation.

It is kind of hard to say how much it is being inhibited since no one has ever had bloodwork to determine MGF RNA trainscription per total RNA but our dosages of MGF aren't far behind our dosages of LR3 IGF-1.

 

[justreading]

I'm sorry but none of this mgf/igf stuff makes any sense haha. I've been around for years and considered myself to be fairly intelligent ateast from a working standpoint on performance enhancers. I am sure other people are confused to so i will man up and just flat out ask. Should mgf be added to igf cycles? Considering mgf at 100mcg a day (those are the doses ive heard) would cost 10 dollars a day or so and we can run 100mcg igf for 4-5 dollars a day is it really worth it? Im sorry Im just lost on this subject.

 

[fedaykin]

As you guys know MGF is a spliced variant of IGF-1. And we know MGF is greatly increased following exercise and isn't tapered off until around day 4 in mice while IGF levels begin to rise at the same time. We know MGF inhibits myotube formation but to what extent? To further back my "don't use MGF past 24-36 hours after a workout, check out these amounts that the body naturally expresses.

Day 1
IGF-Ea: 3 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.40 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA

Day 2 (
IGF-1Ea: 4 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.46 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA

Day 3
IGF-1Ea: 4.5 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.43 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA


Day 4
IGF-1Ea: 5 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.38 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA


Day 5
IGF-1Ea: 7 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.35 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA

Day 6
IGF-1Ea: 7.5 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.27 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA

Day 7
IGF-1Ea: 8 picograms of IGF-1Ea per microgram of RNA
MGF: 0.09 picograms of MGF per microgram of RNA


Values for Days 1-7
IGF-1Ea pg/ug --------MGF pg/ug
3-----------------0.40 (~86% less)
4-----------------0.46 (~89% less)
4.5---------------0.43 (~91% less)
5-----------------0.38 (~93% less)
7-----------------0.35 (~95% less)
7.5---------------0.27 (~97% less)
8-----------------0.09 (~99% less)

Interesting trend here, MGF drops 2% per day with respect to IGF-1Ea.

This is a huge difference between systemic IGF-1 and MGF. Yet, think of the massive dosages we are taking in! We may be replenishing our satellite cell pool but if taken too long we could be severely limiting our gains due to decreased differentiation.

It is kind of hard to say how much it is being inhibited since no one has ever had bloodwork to determine MGF RNA trainscription per total RNA but our dosages of MGF aren't far behind our dosages of LR3 IGF-1.

so, are you saying that the doses of MGF should be even lower then we are taking in right now?

Maybe something like 40mcg IGF and 5mcg MGF? or did I read that wrong.

 

[LakeMountD]

so, are you saying that the doses of MGF should be even lower then we are taking in right now?

Maybe something like 40mcg IGF and 5mcg MGF? or did I read that wrong.

Haha I knew I would stir some **** on this one. I am not saying anything. I am just posting this to show you how interestingly the body repairs itself.

Some of the reasons we can't determine dosages is because we don't know questions such as this one (and many more):

1. What is the DAMN critical dosage of MGF. Think about looking at an exponential curve on a graph, at what dosage of MGF on that graph does the graph become so flat that you are basically wasting MGF to take anymore (i have attached a graph at the bottom to give an idea of what I am tryin gto say).

I just posted this to give you an idea of how your body is doing this stuff naturally.

THE PICTURES are just examples to show why figuring out that critical dosage is so important, although it will be forever until we ever figure it out.

 

[fedaykin]

Haha I knew I would stir some **** on this one. I am not saying anything. I am just posting this to show you how interestingly the body repairs itself.

Some of the reasons we can't determine dosages is because we don't know questions such as this one (and many more):

1. What is the DAMN critical dosage of MGF. Think about looking at an exponential curve on a graph, at what dosage of MGF on that graph does the graph become so flat that you are basically wasting MGF to take anymore (i have attached a graph at the bottom to give an idea of what I am tryin gto say).

I just posted this to give you an idea of how your body is doing this stuff naturally.

THE PICTURES are just examples to show why figuring out that critical dosage is so important, although it will be forever until we ever figure it out.

ya, I understand why we need to figure out the critical doseage. I'm just curious about the ratio. At one point it seems like the MGF:IGF ratio is approximately .1:1?? or 1:10... Right? That means rediculously low MGF doses if we already have our IGF doses right(and do we really have our IGF doses right??).

:wtf:

 

[Rage (SoCal)]

Very interesting stuff. I wonder how running IGF-1 stacked w/ MGF fits into the picture. Just think about having higher IGF-1 levels and trying to figure out the efficacy of MGF dosages. It gets a lot more complicated than someone like me would thing, think of all of the variables.

Of course, this stuff is still very new and I'm sure revalations will be made as far as different protocols are concerned.

 

[xtraflossy]

Who did you have to screw to get that information!!
:jaw:



You know (remember) how many times "But we dont know natural expression levels"....
Well,.. in time all things come I guess.
(IT's on now!!,.....again)

LMD, it appears I can not rep you anymore. I am STILL being told to spread the love around more first!! -

 

[CDB]

LMD, it appears I can not rep you anymore. I am STILL being told to spread the love around more first!! -

I got him. Great contribution, especially about a new product.

 

[fedaykin]

I got him. Great contribution, especially about a new product.

I love dune...

 

[LakeMountD]

Who did you have to screw to get that information!!
:jaw:



You know (remember) how many times "But we dont know natural expression levels"....
Well,.. in time all things come I guess.
(IT's on now!!,.....again)

LMD, it appears I can not rep you anymore. I am STILL being told to spread the love around more first!! -

Haha I got that information from the graph, which you have lol. I just took what the graph said and calculated the percentages.

And yes I don't know how many times I have had to tell people that I just DONT KNOW the exact dosages lol, I know about this stuff because I research it and am pretty good at retaining info and learning it quickly, but we just wont know about all this stuff for a while.

Oh and I do have natural expression numbers for IGF and MGF. I didn't mean to say it the way I did. It just does us no good because these numbers are given in picograms of RNA. We are injecting the whole compound.

 

[CDB]

I love dune...

Never would have guessed from your name. :thumbsup:

See the special edition DVD that came out? It ain't bad. Ain't good but ain't bad either. Gives you the Smithee version and the original theatrical release. Few if any books match the original series though. I just reread the first four, thinking of rereading Heretics and Chapterhouse too, just always found those two a little dryer and not as engaging as the first four.

 

[fedaykin]

Never would have guessed from your name. :thumbsup:

See the special edition DVD that came out? It ain't bad. Ain't good but ain't bad either. Gives you the Smithee version and the original theatrical release. Few if any books match the original series though. I just reread the first four, thinking of rereading Heretics and Chapterhouse too, just always found those two a little dryer and not as engaging as the first four.

I read the first four as well, but after Dune, the others had too many names and were just, I dunno, too intelectual for a football player/powerlifter like me... lol.

I haven't seen the newly released movie. I saw the old movie and I have seen the mini-series that was on the sci-fi channel a while back though. I thought the original movie was pretty good. It doesn't do the book justice though.