IGF-1 effects on diet????
- 04-10-2006, 04:18 PM
IGF-1 effects on diet????
Im kinda unsure about this one. If i am using IGF-1 LR3 at 40mcg AM/PM, what kind of effect does this have on my diet and how my body processes nutrients. I remember reading you can eat whatever you want on it and get leaner.... why is that? If im looking to get SHREADED, and taking an EC type stack along with it and cardio, how do i adjust my diet???
- 04-10-2006, 05:21 PM
The reason for the leanness that you are going to see has to do with decreased insulin production. In studies using IGF-1, they have seen as much as a 1/12th decrease in insulin production, which also means the possibility of going hypo. Although this probably won't happen in someone who is healthy and not diabetic. Either way, keep the post injection food low glycemic and slightly higher. If you are trying to lean you can keep them leaner just dont do a super low carb diet with it. IGF-1 is also fairly anabolic so it will also increase protein synthesis, make sure your protein ratio is high. If you are used to a super high carb diet you can lower the carbs and increase the protein and equal amount to keep calories the same (since 1g carb is~=1g protein). The slightest change in carbs (dropping some) will lean you out a little more. IGF-1 does bloat you a little bit from what a few others and I noticed so remember that too. But by no means can you "eat whatever you want" and look lean. Or not in my case.PharmD
04-10-2006, 07:38 PM
LMD - please explain how LESS insulin could cause LOWER blood sugar.Originally Posted by LakeMountD
04-10-2006, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by same_old
What i think he meant to say was HYPERglycemic.
All good though broskis
04-10-2006, 08:32 PM
Hypoglycemic effects of insulin-like growth factor-1 in experimental uremia: can concomitant growth hormone administration prevent this effect?
Kovacs GT, Worgall S, Schwalbach P, Steichele T, Mehls O, Rosivall L.
2nd Department of Pediatrics and Institute of Patophysiology and International Nephrological Research and Training Center, Semmelweis University, Budapest, Hungary. [email protected]
The risk of hypoglycemia limits the clinical application of insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1). Our studies aimed to evaluate the mode of occurrence as well as the prevention of this side effect. Acute administration (i.v. infusion) of IGF-1 in subtotal nephrectomized uremic (U), sham-operated ad libitum fed control (C) and sham-operated pair-fed control (P) rats led to hypoglycemia, though more expressed in P. Serum glucose levels decreased within 60 min after the IGF-1 administration by 40% in U, by 45% in C and by 52% in P (p < 0.05, U vs. P). Chronic administration (7 days) of 1, 4 and 8 mg/kg/day IGF-1 in U rats led to hypoglycemia in an increasing manner as the dose of IGF-1 increased. On the first day, 2 h after injection, serum glucose levels were 116.5 +/- 8.6, 110.4 +/- 12.4, 60,3 +/- 19.2 and 50.6 +/- 18.3 mg/dl, respectively (p < 0. 01). One week later, IGF-1 therapy proved to be less hypoglycemic in all the groups. On day 7, 2 h after injection the serum glucose levels were 118.9 +/- 23.8, 89.0 +/- 23.9 and 66.0 +/- 32.0, respectively (in comparison to day 1 for 4 and 8 mg/kg/day IGF-1 p < 0.05). The combined effect of 4 mg/kg/day IGF-1 and 10 IU/kg/day growth hormone (GH) was also studied in U and P animals. Two hours after the first injections of IGF-1 serum glucose levels decreased in U from 120.0 +/- 11.3 to 49.2 +/- 21.6 mg/dl, while IGF-1 plus GH decreased the glucose level from 122.0 +/- 15.5 to 81.3 +/- 24.7 mg/dl (p < 0.05 IGF-1 vs. IGF-1 + GH). The hypoglycemic effect of IGF-1 was less expressed by long-term treatment and simultaneous administration of GH overcame the glucose-lowering effect of IGF-1 (serum glucose levels on day 11 one hour after the injections: 73.7 +/- 15.3 mg/dl with IGF-1, and 111.0 +/- 7.8 mg/dl with IGF-1 + GH). Methylprednisolone (MP) did not significantly alter the former effects of IGF-1 and GH. In summary, IGF-1 leads to hypoglycemia in control and uremic rats in a dose-dependent manner. This effect becomes less expressed after prolonged administration. GH attenuates the hypoglycemic effect of IGF-1. This suggests that the combined GH and IGF-1 treatment is more effective and less dangerous in correcting uremic growth failure.
04-10-2006, 08:59 PM
I really hope our convo on aim sums up what i was saying. You didnt need a study to show how igf can make you go hypo ( i never said it didnt).
I was saying that when there isnt enough slin present and u have alot of carbs in you, you go hyper, not hypo.
04-10-2006, 09:56 PM
I knew what I was saying and I said it right. I wasn't saying that decreased insulin caused you to go hypo. But those are the effects of IGF-1. Speak to the body, I didn't make the rule up!
04-10-2006, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by LakeMountD
Well as far as im concerned, you saying...
meant that the decrease in slin production causes you to go hypo, which in that case you are wrong. A decrease in slin production alone would lead you to become hyperglycemic... if you were consuming carbs that is.Originally Posted by Lakemountd
04-11-2006, 01:09 PM
thank you for seeing my point.Originally Posted by dertynasty
i never asserted that IGF doesnt cause a drop in blood sugar (it does), just that what LMD stated isnt the mode of action.
04-11-2006, 01:29 PM
Ok so a drop in blood sugar would mean a better fat burning effect as your body would need to use bodyfat when at rest for its fuel source.
This would also mean a good amount of carbs is needed before and during your workouts, as well as post workout, in order to provide a suffecient energy source and replenish glycogen to prevent cababolism correct? I understand its anabolic, but attending to this issue could make it that much more effective right?
04-11-2006, 08:19 PM
I know you are anti-LMD and attempt to scour every part of what I say in an attempt to find the slightest bit of misinformation but you should have known what I meant or else you wouldn't have brought up that fact. I think I know what hypo and hyper glycemia and you would have to believe I am quite the idiot to not think that. But anyways, now that you guys got this cleared up lets move on.Originally Posted by same_old
04-12-2006, 02:59 AM
Hmm, I am glad I read this. I have been testing the waters with IGF and have been taking a large dose of carb/pro after shooting. I usually take a high pro/carb shake, shoot, work out and shoot again along with a high pro/carb shake post w/o. I will switch to less carbs/more pro when I do my shooting. I have noticed some days I shoot I get the shakes and really need food if I don't eat soon after shooting.
LMD do you have PM's? I want to run a few q's by you.
04-12-2006, 08:17 AM
04-12-2006, 01:13 PM
haha - "how dare you correct me! you MUST know i knew what i meant!"Originally Posted by LakeMountD
some people on this board put a lot of stock in what you say. do you want those people do go around thinking that decreased insulin production causes bouts of hyperglycemia?
04-12-2006, 01:20 PM
Because the way you said it made me sound like an idiot instead of saying "did you mean to say this" you said it as a smartass.
There isn't any bad blood, and I understand why you guys THOUGHT that is what I meant, even though I never stated lower insulin always = lower blood sugar, but in the case of IGF-1 this is what occurs. The blood sugars just aren't lowered BECAUSE of the lowered insulin.
Lets just keep the threads going with the same flow and keep the topics to what they are. As you known its more benefical that way.
Truce both ways.
04-12-2006, 06:12 PM
04-12-2006, 06:30 PM
What about them? They are winning against (not blowing out) the Royals.Originally Posted by dertynasty
04-12-2006, 09:37 PM
lol jeeze im learnin. I would figure Insulin LIKE growth factor would be LIKE insulin somewhat lol. So your saying it actually decreases insulin production. How does IGF-1 become so anabolic if it is lowering the most anabolic hormone in the body???????? If your tryin to add muscle (while dieting lol, dont ask), would it be a good idea to add a small amount of slin post workout (humalog of course) in order to replenish some of the decreased insulin output and create a MORE anabolic effect? Would this make a difference?
Now after what was stated above, while dieting and not tryin to overdo the slin, what would be a good PWO dose of LOG along with IGF-1 and in what order should they be administered (maybe in the same pin?)
Im curious HOW IGF-1 actually lowers blood sugar levels (which would explain why everyone leans out on IGF) if it lowers insulin release which would be the most obvious culprit for lowering blood sugar levels? Its obviously through a different mechanism.. just curious what it is. (im in NO way being a smartass, just tryin to educate myself)
04-14-2006, 12:04 PM
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