Mechano Growth Factor for a noob??

[monkeyfriend]

Hi, new to the forum, I'm 24 years old, and have been working out for around a year and a half.

My diet is gpretty good, and since starting have gained around 2.5 stone.

Started at around 10.5st and am currently around 12.5-13 st.

Never used any kind of AS - started to notice very slight hairloss around 2 years ago, so stared using Finasteride - this is working wonders, I have manged to maintain a ful head of hair through out. The thought of loosing it freeks me out, so thats my reasoning against using anything androgenic.

I really want to add more bulk, but as I said don't want to introduce any AS into my routiene.

I've been thinking of using IGF-1, but can't really stack it with GH because of costs, and I'm not really sure if it will have any real benifit on builing 'bulk' with out adding an AS.

Mechano Growth Factor looks good to me - based upon what I have read so far, (only been reading up on it for a few days though), maybe a little expensive, but doen't seem anymore expensive than GH on it's own.

I suppose if I was to stack it with IGF-1 it would be, but to me it seems to be a little more of the same.

So.. would it be worth my while to buy, say, around 10mg of this stuff? How long would it last, and would it be benificial to do use on it's own?

Sorry for being a bit of a noob!!

Thanks!!

 

[LakeMountD]

Geeeez 10mg, you must have some deep ass pockets! For that you might as well save up for some hGH bro until we get this stuff figured out. More people will be using this stuff in the near future including myself, who is planning on conducting a bunch of controlled experiments to test effectiveness at various dosages etc. Honestly research it more before you make a decision. Read the article I put together (it is the first sticky at the top of the forum) and then decide.

 

[idunk42]

Yeah, definitely take a look at the article that Lake and Xflossy wrote, that should help. Also, if your worried about the costs of igf, take a look at chemistry labs site, they got a great deal going on for that.

 

[LakeMountD]

take a look at chemistry labs site, they got a great deal going on for that.

agreed

IBE has a great deal going on with MGF as well
www.innovative-research.net

 

[same_old]

Hi, new to the forum, I'm 24 years old, and have been working out for around a year and a half.

My diet is gpretty good, and since starting have gained around 2.5 stone.

Started at around 10.5st and am currently around 12.5-13 st.

Never used any kind of AS - started to notice very slight hairloss around 2 years ago, so stared using Finasteride - this is working wonders, I have manged to maintain a ful head of hair through out. The thought of loosing it freeks me out, so thats my reasoning against using anything androgenic.

I really want to add more bulk, but as I said don't want to introduce any AS into my routiene.

I've been thinking of using IGF-1, but can't really stack it with GH because of costs, and I'm not really sure if it will have any real benifit on builing 'bulk' with out adding an AS.

Mechano Growth Factor looks good to me - based upon what I have read so far, (only been reading up on it for a few days though), maybe a little expensive, but doen't seem anymore expensive than GH on it's own.

I suppose if I was to stack it with IGF-1 it would be, but to me it seems to be a little more of the same.

So.. would it be worth my while to buy, say, around 10mg of this stuff? How long would it last, and would it be benificial to do use on it's own?

Sorry for being a bit of a noob!!

Thanks!!

you've never used AS, you want to keep your hair but gain some size? just run a nice test cycle and you'll grow like a weed. the finasteride will take care of the DHT so there shouldnt be any issues. if you want to mix it up, include any (1) of the following: var, tbol, equipoise...some would say superdrol, but i think it has more androgenic properties than advertised...

dont bother with IGF/MGF until you stop growing with regular doses of juice, IMHO.

 

[monkeyfriend]

Thanks for the replies guys!!!

I've read the article on MGF\IGF - found it just after I posted this. REALLY useful, thanks Lake!!!

I know, 10 vials! Maybe a little too much.

I'm trying to find out as much as I can about GH, IGF, MGF, before I make the decision - and plan to start using in around a month or so.

I was thinking of using Test, and using either topical Spironolactone, or maybe Flutamide, and adding 2 pills (0.5mg each) of Avodart (Dutasteride) every week to keep the hair issue under control.

I have very powerful genetics for hair loss - my Dad started loosing hair around the same age as I was (22) and lost it all around 5 years later, so it is really important to me that I don't jeopardize any chances of keeping my hair!

At the moment Finasteride is an absolute God send!

Thanks for the input, and sources!!

 

[pyro264jb]

Thanks for the replies guys!!!

I've read the article on MGF\IGF - found it just after I posted this. REALLY useful, thanks Lake!!!

I know, 10 vials! Maybe a little too much.

I'm trying to find out as much as I can about GH, IGF, MGF, before I make the decision - and plan to start using in around a month or so.

I was thinking of using Test, and using either topical Spironolactone, or maybe Flutamide, and adding 2 pills (0.5mg each) of Avodart (Dutasteride) every week to keep the hair issue under control.

I have very powerful genetics for hair loss - my Dad started loosing hair around the same age as I was (22) and lost it all around 5 years later, so it is really important to me that I don't jeopardize any chances of keeping my hair!

At the moment Finasteride is an absolute God send!

Thanks for the input, and sources!!

Proscar is going to kill your erections also lower your strength in the gym alot. Dht is one of the main hormones behind strength in the body. Also the Proscar will negate the effects of EQ if you ever take it.

 

[LakeMountD]

Yeah DHT is definitely the shiat. I wouldn't let it go either. If you are going to lose it you are going to lose it. This just accelerates the process it doesn't create it. Not only that but if your dad lost it that early than why care about a couple years?

 

[same_old]

Proscar is going to kill your erections also lower your strength in the gym alot. Dht is one of the main hormones behind strength in the body. Also the Proscar will negate the effects of EQ if you ever take it.

i hate it when someone passes off opinions as facts.

1) not everyone encounters libido problems with 5AR inhibitors. in fact, i think the majority do not.

2) loss of strength based on lower DHT concentrations is a myth, and not backed up by empirical evidence. i can toss up 315 on the bench twice as many times now as when my cycle started (10 vs. 5) and i STARTED dutasteride when my cycle began. so you can still make great strength gains with no DHT.

3) EQ has very low affinity for 5AR (ie. only a small percentage is converted to dihydroboldenone aka 1-Test), which means that finasteride or dutasteride will do virtually nothing to the effects of the steroid. i'm on test, dutasteride and EQ right now and i am getting strong, hard and vascular.

and to anyone who says - "fcuk it! you're gonna lose it anyway, why fight it??" - try that same argument with your physique - you'll probably be saggy, weak and fat by 50 - why bother working out? it's just as ridiculous as the argument against hairloss prevention...you want to look as good as you can, WHILE you can.

 

[monkeyfriend]

I haven't noticed any bad side effects of DHT inhibition either.

No loss of libido, or strength. In fact I remember first taking proscar, and seeing a rather significant INCREASE in strength. I put this down to the increased Testosterone that comes with it, but I have no scientific knowledge to back this up, so I'm not really gonna argue - just give my opinion.

If you had told me 2 years ago, (when I first started loosing my hair) that 2 years later I'd still have a full thick head of hair then I'd just think you were completely NUTS, seriously, I think Finasteride is great and really don't think that I'll loose a hell of a lot of hair within 5 years time.

I dont want to be overly optimistic about it, because I don't know what will happen within the next 5 years or so, but, no problems as of yet.

 

[pyro264jb]

i hate it when someone passes off opinions as facts.

1) not everyone encounters libido problems with 5AR inhibitors. in fact, i think the majority do not.

2) loss of strength based on lower DHT concentrations is a myth, and not backed up by empirical evidence. i can toss up 315 on the bench twice as many times now as when my cycle started (10 vs. 5) and i STARTED dutasteride when my cycle began. so you can still make great strength gains with no DHT.

3) EQ has very low affinity for 5AR (ie. only a small percentage is converted to dihydroboldenone aka 1-Test), which means that finasteride or dutasteride will do virtually nothing to the effects of the steroid. i'm on test, dutasteride and EQ right now and i am getting strong, hard and vascular.

and to anyone who says - "fcuk it! you're gonna lose it anyway, why fight it??" - try that same argument with your physique - you'll probably be saggy, weak and fat by 50 - why bother working out? it's just as ridiculous as the argument against hairloss prevention...you want to look as good as you can, WHILE you can.

This was my experiance on it. Im sure everyone is different. It killed my erections and also my gains while I was on that cycle. I did feel weak while I took the proscar, but I must state that it was a homebrew version that my have been overdosed. Also I was using rogaine while on the cycle at a very high dosage. My hair is fine now that im off cycle I think it was the winny I was taking.

good luck kid !

 

[pyro264jb]

i hate it when someone passes off opinions .

3) EQ has very low affinity for 5AR (ie. only a small percentage is converted to dihydroboldenone aka 1-Test), which means that finasteride or dutasteride will do virtually nothing to the effects of the steroid. i'm on test, dutasteride and EQ right now and i am getting strong, hard and vascular.

Your wrong about this. I'll post some articles when I have some free time.

 

[pyro264jb]

w w. bodybuilding.com/fun/catproh2.htm

2) loss of strength based on lower DHT concentrations is a myth, and not backed up by empirical evidence. i can toss up 315 on the bench twice as many times now as when my cycle started (10 vs. 5) and i STARTED dutasteride when my cycle began. so you can still make great strength gains with no DHT.
.

Dihydrotestosterone

Name: 5-alpha-androstene-3-one,17b-ol
Precursors: 5-alpha-androstane-3 17 diol, 5-alpha-androstane-3,17-dione
Forms: None




The word DHT must be running shivers down the spines of some experienced prohormone users. And I must say I wasn't too pleased with the invention of a prohormone that directly converts to DHT either. This is after all the stuff that was named as the main culprit in accelerated male pattern baldness, prostate hypertrophy, acne and increased facial and body hair growth. So why would anyone want to use straight DHT ? Well androgen related side-effects do not occur in everyone, usually only a percentage of people suffer from the severest side-effects. And other prohormones do exert these androgenic effects themselves to some extent as well. Either by converting to DHT or by stimulating androgen receptors in other ways. So the increased risk of using DHT isn't that much greater, unless of course you really have male pattern baldness (MPB), in which case using this product will leave you permanently bald after prolonged use. But the increased risk between this and a precursor to 1-testosterone or even testosterone is really not that great.

So what are the benefits of using DHT ? Are there any ? Well there are some, but I agree, not many. DHT and its derivatives do play an important role in the success of testosterone based products. Mainly in the neuromuscular department. Many of the strength related effects of testosterone and other steroids are due to neuromuscular stimulation by way of DHT. It will allow for dramatic strength increases over a short period of time. Combined with the fact that it is already 5-alpha reduced and cannot aromatise that makes DHT a winner for weight-lifters trying to make a weight class. The weight gain is minimal, and all of it muscle, and your strength shoots through the roof.

Another benefit of using DHT and the like is that it promotes muscle hardness to a large point, making it a possible favorite for pre-contest bodybuilders. This could however be a problem as DHT does stimulate acne and skin impurities, and as mentioned before, if you have MPB the risk is considerable. But nonetheless the increased hardness, striations and vascularity can pay off.

................................

 

[Ronn38]

Though I fear we're hijacking this thread...
Doesn’t Finasteride block the action of 5-Alpha Reductase (which is produced in the skin—hence acne and hair-loss), which is responsible for converting testosterone to DHT. I’ve never read anything about Finasteride blocking the systemic use/uptake of DHT—5AR is the conversion enzyme, not the uptake modulator—isn’t it? Therefore, any compound that is already 5AR reduced would be unaffected by Finasteride because...well, it's already reduced. Clearly, if one was on Test E and Dbol, Finasteride would interfere with DHT production—but not with a 5AR reduced AAS. Do you have any articles that directly state that Finasteride actually blocks the effects of DHT systemically? If I've been wrong about this, I want to know, but everything I've read says Finasteride blocks conversion not the actual hormones.
Thanks for helping us clarify this.
Ronn

 

[phasar]

and to anyone who says - "fcuk it! you're gonna lose it anyway, why fight it??" - try that same argument with your physique - you'll probably be saggy, weak and fat by 50 - why bother working out? it's just as ridiculous as the argument against hairloss prevention...you want to look as good as you can, WHILE you can.

:clap2: well said

 

[same_old]

w w. bodybuilding.com/fun/catproh2.htm



................................

BWAHAHAHAHA....

how do you think myths get started? ask anyone who's taken it and see if they noticed "dramatic decreases in strength". LOL

oh, man - a Big Cat spiel as proof of something. that's classic!

 

[LakeMountD]

Although I can't comment on the strength benefits of DHT as I have never attempted to block it. I will see it is a good hormone to have circulating if you want all the help you can get out of something. Same thing with estrogen, although it isn't something we usually aim for, it is nice to have in a cycle as it increases strength and keeps joints feeling lubricated, etc.

I am not advocating this either way but I must agree with some_old on the fact that Big Cat doesn't know everything as I have recently found as he attempted to tell me he knew everything about IGF-1 basically, although he seemed to be quieted some in that thread after making some comments that made no sense.

He even attempted to switch my words around a little (as some_old also seems to like to do sometimes for some reason) and say they were wrong, when in actuality he truly didn't understand the science behind it. He thought a lot of what I was saying wasn't scientifically based, until I provided him with the studies. He hasn't responded since.

I will say this some_old. Just because someone is 190 lbs at 9% b/f with 16% arms or near there, doesn't mean they aren't entitled to run AAS or growth factors. Some people don't have a high genetic limit to push past this, especially hardcore ecto's, etc. So leave that out of it. You seem to only tout the guys are are 225, etc. Not everyone can make it there.

 

[same_old]

Though I fear we're hijacking this thread...
Doesn’t Finasteride block the action of 5-Alpha Reductase (which is produced in the skin—hence acne and hair-loss), which is responsible for converting testosterone to DHT. I’ve never read anything about Finasteride blocking the systemic use/uptake of DHT—5AR is the conversion enzyme, not the uptake modulator—isn’t it? Therefore, any compound that is already 5AR reduced would be unaffected by Finasteride because...well, it's already reduced. Clearly, if one was on Test E and Dbol, Finasteride would interfere with DHT production—but not with a 5AR reduced AAS. Do you have any articles that directly state that Finasteride actually blocks the effects of DHT systemically? If I've been wrong about this, I want to know, but everything I've read says Finasteride blocks conversion not the actual hormones.
Thanks for helping us clarify this.
Ronn

yes, 5A-reduced steroids (primo, proviron, winny, masteron, anavar, etc) will not be affected by 5AR inhibitors and will be bind to the AR in their original form. steroids not 5A-reduced will undergo reduction and will bind to the AR in (at least) 2 forms: test/DHT, deca/DHN, EQ/1-test, dbol/M1T (i think)

i'm not really sure on the activity of reductase enzyme in different tissue. obviously there is some expression in skin and prostate, but i dont know the systemic details.

 

[same_old]

He even attempted to switch my words around a little (as some_old also seems to like to do sometimes for some reason) and say they were wrong, when in actuality he truly didn't understand the science behind it. He thought a lot of what I was saying wasn't scientifically based, until I provided him with the studies. He hasn't responded since.

I will say this some_old. Just because someone is 190 lbs at 9% b/f with 16% arms or near there, doesn't mean they aren't entitled to run AAS or growth factors. Some people don't have a high genetic limit to push past this, especially hardcore ecto's, etc. So leave that out of it. You seem to only tout the guys are are 225, etc. Not everyone can make it there.

my name is "same_old" damn you!

speaking of twisting words around - i NEVER told the guy he wasnt entitled to use AAS or growth factors. sh1t, i told him to run a nice test cycle to get started.

now, if a person was dead set against using hormones to increase muscle, but wanted an edge... i would certainly advise them to look into IGF if their incomes allowed it.

i just hate to see someone rushing into advanced techniques before they are done growing naturally. i know not every enthusiast is 280lbs w/ 20" arms (and some who are much smaller display their mass better than us monsters)

LMD i am not ENTIRELY convinced that you didnt come into this thread with mildly combative intentions :stick: i dont want any bad blood - we are all here to foster understanding and share experiences. if i call out something you say as incorrect or misleading, dont take it personally. i am not antagonizing, just trying to keep the information as accurate as possible. i would expect you to do the same.

 

[pyro264jb]

DHT is responsible for repairing smooth muscle in the body. The d1ck is a smooth muscle. I did some research on this and found alot of men actually having damage to there d1cks through prolonged use of proscar.

 

[same_old]

DHT is responsible for repairing smooth muscle in the body. The d1ck is a smooth muscle. I did some research on this and found alot of men actually having damage to there d1cks through prolonged use of proscar.

PLEASE post some studies or SOMETHING. you have established NO credibility thus far with your misinformation. i'm not calling you sh1t, just asking for some data to back up your strong claims.

 

[Ronn38]

Yeah, I have to call foul on the "d1ck is smooth muscle" statement too. See the following: (Ops, can't post links yet). Surely there are muscles (2) at the base—but that doesn’t sound like what your implying. I am still interested in the DHT repairing smooth muscle--if you've got a study to support the assurtion. Ronn

 

[pyro264jb]

w w.asiaandro.com/1008-682X/5/33.htm

 

[LCSULLA]

Proscar is going to kill your erections also lower your strength in the gym alot. Dht is one of the main hormones behind strength in the body. Also the Proscar will negate the effects of EQ if you ever take it.

Bull. I have been on proscar and Avodart and I don't have any trouble getting stronger...now cutting is a different animal.

 

[LCSULLA]

Your study is on rats. Not humans. All you have is conjecture and baseless facts.

 

[same_old]

w w.asiaandro.com/1008-682X/5/33.htm

important things to note:

1) we are all (supposedly) fully developed males. if you were to restrict DHT in a pubescent male, that will likely have much more detrimental effects as DHT is one of the primary factors responsible for genital growth. once your junk is grown, though, is a different story. these rats would be considered young or teenage - NOT applicable to our needs as adults.

2) notice that free Testosterone increased with DHT inhibition.

this might throw the thread for a loop, but i am one of the minority persons who DO experience libido loss with 5AR inhibitors, OFF-cycle. (most i have talked to do not, which is why i made that very clear earlier) i also notice that within days, my seminal volume decreases ALOT. note that i do not take 5AR inhibitors off-cycle, on account of these problems. for me, it appears that a DHT reduction has a significant impact. do i think it's damaging my wang? no. i'm pretty sure it's just a hormonal thing. but if i shedded more when i wasnt on test cycles, i would be forced to make a decision about whether or not to use finast/dutast and it wouldnt be an easy one.

wow, what a random detour for this thread. sorry.

 

[xtraflossy]

Yes, a very random turn for the thred.
However, until now, I have never considered DHT inhibition, to promote free test. Makes sence.
Interesting..........

 

[pyro264jb]

important things to note:


2) notice that free Testosterone increased with DHT inhibition.

this might throw the thread for a loop, but i am one of the minority persons who DO experience libido loss with 5AR inhibitors, OFF-cycle. (most i have talked to do not, which is why i made that very clear earlier) i also notice that within days, my seminal volume decreases ALOT. note that i do not take 5AR inhibitors off-cycle, on account of these problems. for me, it appears that a DHT reduction has a significant impact. do i think it's damaging my wang? no. i'm pretty sure it's just a hormonal thing. but if i shedded more when i wasnt on test cycles, i would be forced to make a decision about whether or not to use finast/dutast and it wouldnt be an easy one.

wow, what a random detour for this thread. sorry.

Ok so your argument is only based on the theory, not the reality

gotcha...



Now back to reality. You had the same problem I had on this drug. I am aware it doesn’t happen to all people. That is not what I am arguing here. All im saying is that it happened to me and there must be a reason for it. I found that report on the rats but the rest of the info I have found is circumstantial. Regardless I do believe it has a negative effect on a mans libido over time.

 

[same_old]

Ok so your argument is only based on the theory, not the reality

gotcha...

Now back to reality. You had the same problem I had on this drug. I am aware it doesn’t happen to all people. That is not what I am arguing here. All im saying is that it happened to me and there must be a reason for it. I found that report on the rats but the rest of the info I have found is circumstantial. Regardless I do believe it has a negative effect on a mans libido over time.

you:

"Proscar is going to kill your erections also lower your strength in the gym alot. Dht is one of the main hormones behind strength in the body. Also the Proscar will negate the effects of EQ if you ever take it."

that is NOT what a person says when they want to share their experiences. you told him what was GOING to happen to HIM, not what DID happen to you.

i hate making people look bad, but sometimes it doesnt take any work at all.

and the evidence remains - there are at least as many men do not experience libido problems on 5AR inhibitors as there are men who do.

bottom line is - try it, and if you get sides that bother you, find another method.

 

[pyro264jb]

you:


bottom line is - try it, and if you get sides that bother you, find another method.

at least we agree on one thing

 

[slammer420]

Subscribing.

 

[mywetnightmares]

Subscribing.

To a thread that's 8 months old?

 

[Tom 185]

i hate it when someone passes off opinions as facts.

1) not everyone encounters libido problems with 5AR inhibitors. in fact, i think the majority do not.

2) loss of strength based on lower DHT concentrations is a myth, and not backed up by empirical evidence. i can toss up 315 on the bench twice as many times now as when my cycle started (10 vs. 5) and i STARTED dutasteride when my cycle began. so you can still make great strength gains with no DHT.

3) EQ has very low affinity for 5AR (ie. only a small percentage is converted to dihydroboldenone aka 1-Test), which means that finasteride or dutasteride will do virtually nothing to the effects of the steroid. i'm on test, dutasteride and EQ right now and i am getting strong, hard and vascular.

and to anyone who says - "fcuk it! you're gonna lose it anyway, why fight it??" - try that same argument with your physique - you'll probably be saggy, weak and fat by 50 - why bother working out? it's just as ridiculous as the argument against hairloss prevention...you want to look as good as you can, WHILE you can.

great post