Mechano Growth Factor (MGF) and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) Information Link

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    Re: Mechano Growth Factor (MGF) and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) Information


    Quote Originally Posted by joebig
    Is the MGF by IBE short acting or the LR3?
    There is no such thing as LR3 MGF. There is, however, LR3 IGF-1, which is longer acting then rhIGF-1, which is seen in the medical field.

    There is a longer version of MGF coming out too, though. It is the PEGylated version.

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    @LakeMountD

    I quote what you posted recently on b o d y b u i l d i n g . c o m :

    The most recent update was the biggest one and if you haven't downloaded it recently, definitely go get the new one. It was recently found that IGF-1Ea is the actual activation mechanism of stem cells and not MGF as in Dr. Goldspink's older results. That is a huge discovery by the way and is explained in the article.

    Do you have any additional info on this at this time??
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    Re: Mechano Growth Factor (MGF) and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) Information


    Quote Originally Posted by BassD
    @LakeMountD

    I quote what you posted recently on b o d y b u i l d i n g . c o m :




    Do you have any additional info on this at this time??
    Still the same info. The problem occurred in Dr. Goldspink's older studies. When he first began research on MGF he hypothesized that it was responsible for not only proliferation (brining in of myoblasts) but also for differentiation (activation of these myoblasts). This, however, proved to not be true in newer studies and actually it was wrong to a very large degree as it was found that not only did MGF not differentiate myoblasts but it actually inhibited myoblasts from differentiating (this is his newest hypothesis). They now say that IGF-1Ea is responsible for the differentiation, which is good for all the LR3 IGF-1 users out there. MGF still has its place as something that has a lot of potential, especially with the longer lasting PEGylated version coming out, but it will take much longer to figure out how to use it synergistically with LR3 IGF-1 since it does inhibit differentiation.

    We basically have to determine how we can dose this stuff to where we get a large influx of myoblasts without inhibiting differentiation. I also still believe LR3 IGF-1 and MGF stacked together are the best way to go. With the large amount of IGF-1 we are getting, we need the extra myoblasts and with all the myoblasts being proliferated by the MGF, you are going to want the added anabolism.
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    Re: Mechano Growth Factor (MGF) and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) Information


    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    Still the same info. The problem occurred in Dr. Goldspink's older studies. When he first began research on MGF he hypothesized that it was responsible for not only proliferation (brining in of myoblasts) but also for differentiation (activation of these myoblasts). This, however, proved to not be true in newer studies and actually it was wrong to a very large degree as it was found that not only did MGF not differentiate myoblasts but it actually inhibited myoblasts from differentiating (this is his newest hypothesis). They now say that IGF-1Ea is responsible for the differentiation, which is good for all the LR3 IGF-1 users out there. MGF still has its place as something that has a lot of potential, especially with the longer lasting PEGylated version coming out, but it will take much longer to figure out how to use it synergistically with LR3 IGF-1 since it does inhibit differentiation.

    We basically have to determine how we can dose this stuff to where we get a large influx of myoblasts without inhibiting differentiation. I also still believe LR3 IGF-1 and MGF stacked together are the best way to go. With the large amount of IGF-1 we are getting, we need the extra myoblasts and with all the myoblasts being proliferated by the MGF, you are going to want the added anabolism.
    With this in mind, what do you think of adding some Arachidonic acid (key ingredient in "X-Factor") into a stack of MGF and LR3 IGF-1 ??

    Arachidonic acid intensifies IGF-1 signaling, and supports muscle hypertrophy by increasing satellite cell (myoblast) fusion in muscle fibers.

    Or maybe an cheaper option.... replacing the LR3 IGF-1 with Arachidonic acid ??
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    Re: Mechano Growth Factor (MGF) and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) Information


    Quote Originally Posted by BassD
    With this in mind, what do you think of adding some Arachidonic acid (key ingredient in "X-Factor") into a stack of MGF and LR3 IGF-1 ??

    Arachidonic acid intensifies IGF-1 signaling, and supports muscle hypertrophy by increasing satellite cell (myoblast) fusion in muscle fibers.

    Or maybe an cheaper option.... replacing the LR3 IGF-1 with Arachidonic acid ??
    Well replacing it with the acid would be the difference between taking DHEA or injecting straight test, HUGE difference. I don't see the arachidoic acid hurting anything while taking IGF-1, so I mean obviously yea you could do that although I seriously doubt it has too profound of an effect.

    Lr3 is about 3 times as potent as regular IGF-1 and the half life is MUCH MUCH longer and will easily last you more than half the day.
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    Just a suggestion,..
    There have been many that have responded well to X-factor / AA. for a while, actually replacing LR3 with AA will be as effective as LMD stated.
    However, adding AA along with your LR3, while maybe not the cheapest thing to do, may be a good idea for gains if done like 20 some days before the end of your IGF run.
    It seems like the gains from AA come around day 25 for most, as it takes a while to build levels up.
    Oh,.. and you must consider the pumps. LR3 can cause some pretty mean pumps, and AA (in me) caused some pretty mean burning/pain in my muscles. But if your doing alright now, I dont forsee it being a showstopper.
    Basicly, adding it to LR3 would be great, but plan it to really be kicking in after 20-some days. Plan accordingly.
    I know that you can find anothe rproduct beside X-factor, the runs about $20 cheaper then actual X-factor
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    Isnt the main benefit of x-factor/AA the heightened production of prostaglandidns? And isnt the prostaglandin that's supposed to be helpful for muscle building PGF2a? And doesnt x-factor/AA cost around the same as a bottle of PGF2a? (or maybe even a little bit more?) Or is there some other benefit of x-factor that Im missing?
    Cuz I've mixed injectable PGF2a w/ LR3 IGF, and didnt notice much of an advantage over LR3 alone. And other's I've spoken to were also dissapointed in the alleged anabolic effects of PGF alone. (of course anything as overhyped as PGF2a was in the early reports is bound to dissapoint.)
    So if AA is giving people anabolic effects, then there must be another pathway through wich it benefits muscle building. It also boosts PGE-1, but thats supposed to just be an inflammatory, and as far as I know was not known for increasing skeletal muscle anabolism.

    So, what gives?
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    I beleive ther eare also claims of hormonal "balance" to AA as well. YEs, supposedly, the xtra signaling is supposed to d oas you described. I basicly thought that it was the proflamitory actions that induced the anabolic response (along with PGF2a). Now, by what pathways specificly that drives the anabolic response I am unsure of. But basicly, it was making your body think that more damage had occured.

    I do not know the price of a bottle of PGF2a, but I picked up some Hyper-H for about $30.00 a bottle.
    If you didnt notice much, and I remember like 5 injections were needed daily or something... then the "hormonal amplification" and proflamitory probably has something to do with it.
    I however, did not notice any gains, or fatloss from 50 days worth. However, that is not to say that others have not.
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    Hmmmm, you might be on to something w/ that PGE1 making the body think more damage has occured. What if we used PGE1 or AA to make better use of our MGF? Of course that would probably work even better if we added IGF. Wich would be even more expensive than just IGF and AA.Or IGF and one of the main two prostaglandins. I also dont see anyone but anti-aging/sexual disfunction clinics carrying PGE1. (Yeah they actually have dudes injecting it in their weiner's.) EEEEEYOUTCH!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnicronSpawn
    Hmmmm, you might be on to something w/ that PGE1 making the body think more damage has occured. What if we used PGE1 or AA to make better use of our MGF? Of course that would probably work even better if we added IGF. Wich would be even more expensive than just IGF and AA.Or IGF and one of the main two prostaglandins. I also dont see anyone but anti-aging/sexual disfunction clinics carrying PGE1. (Yeah they actually have dudes injecting it in their weiner's.) EEEEEYOUTCH!!!
    Im sure that is would be a GREAT inclusion to a MGF cycle. I was only able to try it some at the end of my IGF cycle, and I didnt overlap that much, so I still had kick-in times of 10+ days berfore the AA should have shown any bennifit.

    Of course, the more the merrier in response to your stacking suggestions, I actually had planned on using MGF with my AA, but the MGF fell through, and I just used the AA.
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    CORRECTION: I read a little yesterday and realized that it was PGE2, not PGE1 (wich is what I was calling it in a previous post) that was the pro inflamatory one that some guys inject in their weiners. It's also one of the ones made by AA conversion via Cox2. Turns out the real PGE1 is actually ANTI-inflamatory and is synthesized from GLA not AA. I think PGF2 is also synthesized from the AA, but the thing I was reading yesterday didnt go into PGF2a synthesis, just PGE1 and PGE2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    Im sure that is would be a GREAT inclusion to a MGF cycle. I was only able to try it some at the end of my IGF cycle, and I didnt overlap that much, so I still had kick-in times of 10+ days berfore the AA should have shown any bennifit.

    Of course, the more the merrier in response to your stacking suggestions, I actually had planned on using MGF with my AA, but the MGF fell through, and I just used the AA.
    Why not IGF-1 with the MGF instead of AA?
    I really would like to make the best profits out of my MGF-cycle, but with the IGF-1 included it would be a pain to my wallet. So if I can get good results with the AA included instead of the IGF-1 this would be great! So I'm interested in your view on this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassD
    Why not IGF-1 with the MGF instead of AA?
    I really would like to make the best profits out of my MGF-cycle, but with the IGF-1 included it would be a pain to my wallet. So if I can get good results with the AA included instead of the IGF-1 this would be great! So I'm interested in your view on this.
    Lol- I had PLANNED on all 3. I received my LR3, had my AA,.. but the MGF I was expecting never happened.
    Sorry, I wasn't tring to imply that I'd rather use MGF+AA over combining all 3.
    When the new peg. version comes out, I'm going to use that solo though. Turns out, after 2 attempts, I just dont really get anything out of AA
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    Lol- I had PLANNED on all 3. I received my LR3, had my AA,.. but the MGF I was expecting never happened.
    Sorry, I wasn't tring to imply that I'd rather use MGF+AA over combining all 3.
    When the new peg. version comes out, I'm going to use that solo though. Turns out, after 2 attempts, I just dont really get anything out of AA
    Oh misunderstood you there

    Do you think de PEGylated version will give good results on its own?
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    Re: Mechano Growth Factor (MGF) and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) Information


    Quote Originally Posted by BassD
    Oh misunderstood you there

    Do you think de PEGylated version will give good results on its own?
    It will definitely be more beneficial in the sense that the half life is going to be extended significantly. Most of the studies conducted by Dr. Goldspink use the PEGylated version due to the fact it has a longer half life, much like LR3 IGF-1 compared to hIGF-1Ea
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    Re: Mechano Growth Factor (MGF) and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) Information


    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    It will definitely be more beneficial in the sense that the half life is going to be extended significantly. Most of the studies conducted by Dr. Goldspink use the PEGylated version due to the fact it has a longer half life, much like LR3 IGF-1 compared to hIGF-1Ea
    Results should be more interesting this time around :bb:
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    PEGylated MGF Profile


    PEGylated Mechano Growth Factor (MGF)

    Quick summary: MGF is a splice variant of the IGF produced by a frame shift if the IGF gene. MGF increase the muscle stem cell count, so that more may fuse and become part of adult muscle cells. This is a process required for adult muscle cells to continue growing.

    Why PEGylate MGF?
    MGF exhibits local effects in skeletal muscle and without modification is not systemic (can’t travel through the body). The problem with synthetic MGF is that it is introduced IM and is water based so it goes into the blood stream. MGF is not stable in the blood stream for more than a matter of minutes. Biologically produced MGF is made locally and does not enter the bloodstream and is short acting so stability is not an issue. By PEGylating the MGF we can make synthetic MGF injected IM almost as efficient as local produced MGF. Clinically proven Advanced Pegylation, the technology of polyethylene glycol (PEG) conjugation, holds significant promise in maintaining effective plasma concentrations of systemically administered drugs. It does this by surrounding part of the peptide with a unique structure made of polyethylene glycol, which can be attached to a protein molecule. The result of a correct PEGylation is simlar to the protective mechanism of a turtle shell. The polyethylene glycol groups protect the peptide but don’t surround it completely. The active sites of the peptide are still free to do their biological function. In this case the shell is a negative charged shield against positively charged compounds that would affect the protein. This also provides a nice steric chamber for the peptide to reside in. So it’s a happy turtle

    Neurological research has shown that utilizing PEGylated MGF resulted in a longer more stable acting version of the MGF peptide in serum/blood.

    Bottom line
    PEGylation can improve performance and dosing convenience of peptides, proteins, antibodies, oligonucleotides and many small molecules by optimizing pharmacokinetics, increasing bioavailability, and decreasing immunogenicity and dosing frequency. PEGylation also can increase therapeutic efficacy by enabling increased drug concentration, improved biodistribution, and longer dwell time at the site of action. As a result, therapeutic drug concentrations can be achieved with less frequent dosing—a significant benefit to patients who are taking injected drugs.

    The PEG itself does not react in the body and is very safe. PEG has been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as a base or vehicle for use in foods and cosmetics and in injectable, topical, rectal and nasal pharmaceutical formulations. PEG has demonstrated little toxicity, is eliminated intact by the kidneys or in the feces and lacks immunogenicity. The risk associated with current PEGylated drugs are due to the way the drug itself acts not the PEG. MGF, as it is being currently sold, is getting a bad rep from people due to the fact they feel that they are not seeing gains from it. Many people believe that the use of MGF in their cycles or protocols just flat out won't work, however, this is far from the truth.
    More MGF information
    Complete Overview of MGF or IGF-IEc

    From its sequence, MGF is derived from the IGF-I gene by alternative splicing and has different 3' exons to the liver or systemic type (IGF-IEa). It has a 49 base pair insert in the human, and a 52 base pair insert in rodents, within the E domain of exon 5. This insert results in a reading frame shift, with a different carboxy (C) terminal sequence to that of systemic IGF-IEa. MGF and the other IGF isoforms have the same 5' exons that encode the IGF-I ligand-binding domain. Processing of pro-peptide yields a mature peptide that is involved in upregulating protein synthesis. However, there is evidence that the carboxy-terminal of the MGF peptide also acts as a separate growth factor. This stimulates division of mononucleated myoblasts or satellite (stem) cells, thereby increasing the number available for local repair

    During the early stage of skeletal muscle development, myoblasts (muscle stem cells) fuse to form syncytial myotubes, which become innervated and develop into muscle fibres. Thereafter, mitotic proliferation of nuclei within the muscle fibres ceases. However, during postnatal (after development) growth, additional nuclei are provided by satellite cells (myoblast) fusing with myotubules. Muscle damage-recovery seems to have a similar cellular mechanism, in that satellite cells become activated and fuse with the damaged muscle fibres (reviewed by Goldring et al. 2002). This is also pertinent to certain diseases such as muscular dystrophy in which muscle tissue is not maintained and which have been associated with a deficiency in active satellite (stem) cells (Megeney et al. 1996; Seale & Rudnicki, 2000) and in myogenic factors (Heslop et al. 2000). Skeletal muscle mass and regenerative capacity have also been shown to decline with age (Sadeh, 1988; Carlson et al. 2001). The reduced capacity to regenerate in older muscle seems to be due to the decreased ability to activate satellite cell proliferation (Chakravarthy et al. 2000). The markedly lower expression of MGF in older rat muscles (Owino et al. 2001) and human muscle (Hameed et al. 2003) in response to mechanical overload has been associated with the failure to activate satellite cells, leading to age-related muscle loss (Owino et al. 2001). Your muscle cels can not grow once they have reached a certain size unless they obtain more nuclei from the myoblast. MGF increases the myblast available to donate their nuclei to the adult muscle cell.
    “MGF appears to have a dual action in that, like the other IGF-I isoforms, it upregulates protein synthesis as well as activating satellite cells. However, the latter role of MGF is probably more important as most of the mature IGF-I will be derived from IGF-IEa during the second phase of repair. Nevertheless, it has been shown that MGF is a potent inducer of muscle hypertrophy in experiments in which the cDNA of MGF was inserted into a plasmid vector and introduced by intramuscular injection. This resulted in a 20 % increase in the weight of the injected muscle within 2 weeks, and the analyses showed that this was due to an increase in the size of the muscle fibres (Goldspink, 2001). Similar experiments by other groups have also been carried out using a viral construct containing the liver type of IGF-I, which resulted in a 25 % increase in muscle mass, but this took over 4 months to develop (Musaro et al. 2001). Hence, the dual role MGF plays in inducing satellite cell activation as well as protein synthesis suggests it is much more potent than the liver type or IGF-IEa for inducing rapid hypertrophy.”

    These results are based on actual transplantation of the DNA coding for the peptides. This is a permanent effect and much more potent than IM injections of the peptide itself. You will not see a 20% increase in muscle mass through IM injections as claimed above.
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    Re: PEGylated MGF Profile


    PEGylated MGF dosing Protocols

    The PEGylated version is going to be much longer lasting making a 1-2 dose per week procedure possible. I still think its best used with IGF or AAS to maximize the benefits so here are some sample protocols

    Once a week PEG MGF/ IGF
    Sunday 100-300 mcg MGF you can choose to site inject if you wish. I think splitting large doses may benefit.
    Monday –Fri IGF 50mcg e/d

    Twice a week PEG MGF / IGF
    Sunday and Wed MGF 50-150 mcg
    MT, ThF IGF 50 mcg

    These protocols are just to start as this is brand new feel free to tweak them if you like. I will update them after we have done some testing.
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    Re: PEGylated MGF Profile


    Is the Igf-1 totally necessary? Or can we just run MGF on it's on?
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    Re: PEGylated MGF Profile


    Quote Originally Posted by CHAPS
    Is the Igf-1 totally necessary? Or can we just run MGF on it's on?
    You must remember that MGF only increases the number of staelite cells for use. Naturally you body uses another form of IGF very very similar to the systemic LR3 IGF available to then differentiation these new cells into components of adult muscle cells.

    So is IGF necissary, NO I dont hink you have to have it b/c you have your own natural IGF and cna induce IGF productino through training but I think better results may be acheived using both, or using MGF in conjuction with AAS b/c they also induce differentiation
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    Re: PEGylated MGF Profile


    Since this continues on the sticky info i'm gonna copy this to the thread up there so there isn't scattered info on this all over the place.
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    Re: Mechano Growth Factor (MGF) and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) Information


    Ok just keep in mind this is unique to the PEGylated version. Could you edit the title so people know please?
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    Yeah, no foul meant Game. I've just been working hard on narrowing the info lately to make searching much easier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    Still the same info. The problem occurred in Dr. Goldspink's older studies. When he first began research on MGF he hypothesized that it was responsible for not only proliferation (brining in of myoblasts) but also for differentiation (activation of these myoblasts). This, however, proved to not be true in newer studies and actually it was wrong to a very large degree as it was found that not only did MGF not differentiate myoblasts but it actually inhibited myoblasts from differentiating (this is his newest hypothesis). They now say that IGF-1Ea is responsible for the differentiation, which is good for all the LR3 IGF-1 users out there. MGF still has its place as something that has a lot of potential, especially with the longer lasting PEGylated version coming out, but it will take much longer to figure out how to use it synergistically with LR3 IGF-1 since it does inhibit differentiation.

    We basically have to determine how we can dose this stuff to where we get a large influx of myoblasts without inhibiting differentiation. I also still believe LR3 IGF-1 and MGF stacked together are the best way to go. With the large amount of IGF-1 we are getting, we need the extra myoblasts and with all the myoblasts being proliferated by the MGF, you are going to want the added anabolism.
    You seem to be the Resident expert on IGF LR3 and MGF. This will be my first cycle of anything. Ive never been a fan of Steroids, but HGH, IGF, and MGF...interest me do to the fact they are natural functions of the body....just magnified. Any thoughts of a virgin stack of any of these or just alone? I was thinking HGH, but if the size comes for IGF LR3...maybe that is the more appropriate route....with a side of MGF? Thoughts?????
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    I like LR3 IGF-1 the best personally, but then again have never tried hGH as I could never justify the price and the fact cycles have to be run for very long periods of time. Try getting 1-2mg of LR3 IGF-1 and run it at 20mg EOD or 30mg E3D and let me know how you liked it. Hunger should be way up, increased vascularity (through nitric oxide pathways), decrease in fat, slight increase in muscle mass, but this is the foundation that will be laid for later growth. You can also add in PEG-MGF 2x per week if you'd like. Search around professional muscle . com for some dosage schemes, we had some people trying it out over there who loved it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    I like LR3 IGF-1 the best personally, but then again have never tried hGH as I could never justify the price and the fact cycles have to be run for very long periods of time. Try getting 1-2mg of LR3 IGF-1 and run it at 20mg EOD or 30mg E3D and let me know how you liked it. Hunger should be way up, increased vascularity (through nitric oxide pathways), decrease in fat, slight increase in muscle mass, but this is the foundation that will be laid for later growth. You can also add in PEG-MGF 2x per week if you'd like. Search around professional muscle . com for some dosage schemes, we had some people trying it out over there who loved it.
    Thanks.

    IM...but site specific, bilateral or just quad and glute?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    I like LR3 IGF-1 the best personally, but then again have never tried hGH as I could never justify the price and the fact cycles have to be run for very long periods of time. Try getting 1-2mg of LR3 IGF-1 and run it at 20mg EOD or 30mg E3D and let me know how you liked it. Hunger should be way up, increased vascularity (through nitric oxide pathways), decrease in fat, slight increase in muscle mass, but this is the foundation that will be laid for later growth. You can also add in PEG-MGF 2x per week if you'd like. Search around professional muscle . com for some dosage schemes, we had some people trying it out over there who loved it.

    Also, I figure ill reconstitute both with AA. Then what do I backload my slin pins with and how much?
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    Quote Originally Posted by logan22
    Also, I figure ill reconstitute both with AA. Then what do I backload my slin pins with and how much?
    PEG-MGF is water soluble, no need for AA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    PEG-MGF is water soluble, no need for AA.
    Why EOD or E3D? Why not ED?
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    Quote Originally Posted by logan22
    Why EOD or E3D? Why not ED?
    Receptor endocytosis, aka receptor down regulation . But search the IGF-1 forum for posts by me and there is a thread about why EOD-E3D injections are best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    Receptor endocytosis, aka receptor down regulation . But search the IGF-1 forum for posts by me and there is a thread about why EOD-E3D injections are best.

    Do you have a link to it? I cant find the posting. So if I pin the MGF of Sunday, (everywhere) Then should I wait one day to pin the LR3, then every other day? Would that work

    Sun MGF 250mcg
    Tues, Thurs, Sat LR3 40mcg?

    How does that sound?
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    Quote Originally Posted by logan22
    Do you have a link to it? I cant find the posting. So if I pin the MGF of Sunday, (everywhere) Then should I wait one day to pin the LR3, then every other day? Would that work

    Sun MGF 250mcg
    Tues, Thurs, Sat LR3 40mcg?

    How does that sound?
    Day one!

    Started today...20/20mcg bilateral Shoulders. So far so good.
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    i was thinking of doing a somewhat large shot of mgf (say 200mcg) on sunday, working out mon and tues, wen off and then using igf pwo on thur and fri and maybe sat

    i'd be training each bodypart about twice a week--once on the mgf and once on the igf

    i've run a low dose of igf for 3 on, 4-off before and it worked well

    has anyone tried anything similar yet?
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    I tried 250mcgs peg-MGF once a wk w/ IGF 5 on 2 off @ about 20mcgs. Didnt use IGF on the day OF or the day AFTER the PEG-MGF shot. I got some ok gains w/ it, but I cant help but think Im not getting the most out of that combo. I just felt like there HAD to be a better more effective protocol possible. Because those gains I did make were along w/ Test, tren and GH. Id been on for awhile and my gains had been slowing down more and more despite adjustments in training and diet to get the ball rolling again. The PEG MGF/IGF helped me keep from completely hitting the wall, but I just think theres got to be a better way to cycle them. Im in PCT now and thinking of getting some more IGF and possibly more PEG MGF as well if I can afford it. Still takin the GH of course. Eating clean still(cept yesterday I caved in and had some fries w/ my chicken sandwich, cuz the sandwich left me hungry.) Im thinking of trying either 125mcgs X2/wk or 250mcgs once a wk of PEG MGF with 10-20mcgs E3D of IGF. When you down regulate your IGF receptors w/ 80mcg/ED plus dosages, it just sucks cuz your spending way more money, and only getting results for a couple weeks tops, if that. I've never had the money to burn to try the super high end dosages (some of wich I've heard people say they got good results from) but I've tried 40mcg/ED a few times and up to 60mcg's/ED for short bursts and never noticed anything spectacular. Whats the answer? Taking even MORE? like 120mg's ED? or less like 10mcgs EOD or E3D? I wish I knew. I've heard cases be made for both, but Im still just trying stuff out.
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    Unicorn...
    Do you have your PM turned off?
    I tried to send you something...

    Ah hell,. .I'll just post it here.
    It's VERY rushed, so maybe I'll edit ti later,.. but I dont want to have to type it again to send it PM style to ya

    hey,.. Just a thought on your MGF/IGF question..

    It looks like you were using a really high dose of peg-mgf,.. and a really small dose of LR3 ed.

    The problem with running the two IMO is that even if you dont shoot both on the same day, there will be some overlap, and the action of IGf can hinder p-MGF.

    The p-mgf will be active for a few days,.. and I dont care what people say, you cant inject something that lives that long without it going systemic. (which is not bad)

    Plus, a 250 mcg dose will run your supply dry quick.

    Suggestion:
    Monday MORNING, take a 150 mcg dose (more is not always better)

    Wednesday NIGHT, take an effective dose of LR3 (about 40-60mcg)

    What your doing with this is allowing the prolifferation to go on for a few days, making new satalite cells that can be used in repair for a few days,... then hopefully, some of that 150 mcg of mgf has "cleared", and you have less floating around by wednesday night.. when you shoot the LR3. This means that the new cells can differentiuate better becasue the LR3 will hinder the MGF if taken too close together.

    Also, this just so happens to also be VERY cost effective, as, doing an additional shot iof either durring the week will cause an overlap of the 2, and hinder the function of the other.. meaning BOTH will be hindered by the other, and cancel out..

    Dont do cardio after working out if possible.. the increase of bloodflow that stays in the muscle will contain a higher concentration of peptide, ... just becasue a higher concentration of blood will be in that muscle. Cardio will make the pump (aka, increased bloodflow/peptide) dissapate some.

    What does this also mean??? I means that a different training protovcal might be helpfull to.
    In short, if you do squats once a week, break it into twice a week. Do them on the day you shoot the MGF, and then again the day you shoot the LR3.
    This will mean that the first time (with mgf) u train them, they get the prolifferation effects, .. and (after you shoot the LR3 ) and also a higher concentration in that group of LR3 to aid in healing with those extra cells the mgf created.
    Basicly, heres the idea:

    The first part of the week-ish (or first half):
    Dose p-MGF
    Your workout routine, try to split into to groups. A monday/Wednesday ( basicly a 2 day split of all groups)

    The second part of the week-ish:
    Dose LR3
    Repeat the same workout as you did Monday and wednesday, but on Thursday and Saturday.

    there was a thread here I read on dogcrap training.. had a link to the style and explination..
    Look into that, and kinda mold their 3 day split, into a 2 day.
    Your favorite excersise the fiorst time around, and your second fav the next.

    Disclaimer:
    Just a suggestion... as I know nothing
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    Ok, just realized there was a post on this thread (like a week later). Dont know y I didnt get email notification.

    Ok, so XtraFlossy, your saying to try taking MGF and LR3 just once per week each, spaced 2 1/2 days apart?
    I can give that a try.
    Im also taking HGH 8iu's EOD, and was wondering if the natural IGF production increase from that could have an adverse effect on the PEG-MGF's actions.
    I just got some LR3 and I accidentaly left it @ room temp for around 24hours so Im not sure if it's still good.
    Plan to get more PEG-MGF soon. But now Im might need to get more IGF as well. I dont even know how to tell if it's still good.
    (Dang, and I JUST BOUGHT it too.) DOH!!

    I posted a thread asking about how long the IGF could survive @ room temp. (Still cant believe I forgot to put it back in the fridge.)
    THanx XF.
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    Honestly, I dont know about the room temp thing. I think I remember somneone saying they kept it in a drawer for a month and it was still good. Try it and see.
    As for the hgh, I wouldnt think that would hinder, least at NORMAL level ranges. I wouldn't know at what point using GH would produce enough IGf-1 to cause any interference. BUT, I would think that it shouldn't effect it (compared to LR3). remember, IGF-1 has a very short half life, especially compared to LR3
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    Cool.

    Im still using the MGF and IGF that got left out overnight.
    It's hard to tell how well the stuff is working anyway, so I probably wont know for awhile if it's still good. But Im thinking that the LR3 should at least be good, maybe the MGF too but who knows.
    Im going to just continue my EOD GH dosing of 8IU's.
    Started humalog again recently. Im in my 3rd wk of PCT, and happened to have a few bucks around, so Im having some fun with it.
  

  
 

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