IGF subq or IM?
- 03-06-2006, 07:40 AM
IGF subq or IM?
I am going to drop my money into the bucket for some IGF I do believe. Only if I am able to do subq instead of IM. Would I be wasting my money if I went sub q with this stuff? Also, I read that "nodules" can form under the skin. Do they go away after a while? I have no experience pinning so that was why I wanted to do sub q. Any tips?
- 03-06-2006, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by parttimer
I prefer subq because it's systemic and lasts longer. The IGF will bind to any muscle that needs repair. However I dose between 40 and 50 mcg/day I split the dose. If I used a higher dose ( let's say 100mcg or more/day) I would opt for IM injections because IGF has a tendancy to bind to intestines, and that can make your gut grow.
Either method is relatively painless. The 29 gauge slin pin is short and thin - you hardly feel it. Make sure you have some high glycemic carbs(i.e. fruit juice) on hand in case you get hypoglycemic. Also, reserve one of your injections for after your workout (within 30 minutes if you can) just before your post shake/meal.
- 03-07-2006, 05:49 AM
Thank you very much for the reply!! One last thing, did you pin the parts that were worked or just the stomach area?
03-07-2006, 08:54 AM
I pinned the stomache area. Subq is not site specific.Originally Posted by parttimer
One more thing: Buy your IGF from a reputable source. Chemistry Labs and Muscle Research are both reputable and board sponsors. It may be that the IGF source caused some of the bad effects you heard about. It's possible.
03-07-2006, 03:41 PM
What might be a reason to go sub-q?
03-07-2006, 04:10 PM
I am a sissy and don't want to go IMOriginally Posted by Grunt76
03-07-2006, 04:29 PM
It is painless both ways. Your reason doesn't count.
03-07-2006, 04:37 PM
03-07-2006, 05:09 PM
I agree that neither method is painless, but for me subq is more effective.Originally Posted by Grunt76
03-07-2006, 05:15 PM
More effective? For recomposition? Possibly, but you do know that if you are distributing the IGF systemically, then you are growing your intestines. I wonder why on earth would you possibly consider that as being positive.Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf
03-07-2006, 05:40 PM
Subq works well for bulking too. In my previous posts I explained that it should only be done in small doses (less 40 to 50 mcg/day ). Intestinal growth results from high doses.Originally Posted by Grunt76
Subq is sytemic and repairs any muscle that signals it. IM only works on the muscle you inject. Maybe it's good for biceps and pecs, but compound movements tax multiple muscles.
I've watched my workout partner grow like crazy from subq. During the summer he weighed 138, and after two short SD cycles book-ended with IGF he is a ripped 165. I did a four week cycle in conjunction with USPlabs Powerful, gained 9 punds, and lost two inches on my waist. At 6'4" I weighed in at 241 with a 49.25 chest and 37 waist. After the cycle I had a 50.5 inch chest and a 35.25 waist. Also my arms grew from 17.75 to 18.25.
As I said before, subq works for me. Of course everyone is different.
03-07-2006, 05:53 PM
i am doing sub q injections, but on biceps days i will do im, can i inject to my chest and how( because i want to help it recover fast, usualy it isrecovering at least 3 days)
03-07-2006, 06:05 PM
today i am working out my shoulders can i inject them and another thing usualy it takes for me an hour to get back from the gym is it gona be efective im injection 1 hour pas workout
03-07-2006, 09:17 PM
You can inject them directly into the front of the pecs.Originally Posted by stumbras
03-07-2006, 10:24 PM
I just worry when doing IM that you have to stick yourself, pull back the plunger and check for blood, I worry about screwing myself up.
03-07-2006, 10:40 PM
Stop worryin' bro, there ain't nothin' to it.
03-07-2006, 10:53 PM
cool , thanks guys
i will update later with my results
03-07-2006, 10:55 PM
Isn't IM injections systematic as well as SubQ? I thought once it was absorbed into the bloodstream it goes throughout the entire body, and is not site specific
As far as injections go, IM is the most pain free method for me, Sub Q leaves bruises and noodules that last for weeks, Just my preference
03-07-2006, 11:07 PM
You're right. IM shots are also systematic. They just have a shorter half life than subq and a greater effect on the site of injection.Originally Posted by mildain
I've shot both HGH and IGF subq and never had bruises or nodules.
03-07-2006, 11:41 PM
I have nodules too. I agree that IM also goes somewhat to systemic distribution, although you are loading up the local receptors preferrentially, and that IMO is a GOOD thing. It leaves less to go where it's not really needed...
03-07-2006, 11:47 PM
Are you doing two different pins if you pin two locations?
03-08-2006, 08:44 AM
I do it the Real Man (tm) way...Originally Posted by parttimer
03-08-2006, 09:32 AM
Use your slin pins for IM. It's completely painless. It doesn't even compare to a test injection with a 3CC pin. You may do a double take to make sure the needle is in.Originally Posted by parttimer
03-08-2006, 11:43 AM
But do you use two different pins if you are pinning two places at a time? I really think I am going to go subq for my pct.
03-08-2006, 11:48 AM
I use one syringe. I pin it in the igf vial, then into a bw vial, then left-side injection, then right-side injection. It is painless.
03-08-2006, 05:31 PM
I assume you're buying reconstituted IGF, which is the reason you draw BW in addition. I've read in numerous threads that AA is the preferred over BW; It supposedly keeps the IGF stable, and increases shelf life. Both Chemistry Labs and Muscle Research will include additional AA if requested. 1ML can be added to your IGF. It's more efficient than drawing solution from another vial and risking the loss of precious IGF.Originally Posted by Grunt76
Just my opinion.
03-08-2006, 06:48 PM
yes i am switching to im injections ( less pain, no bruises)
My chest and biceps muscles is hardest to recover so
i am gona do twice to biceps - after workout and next morning, twice pecs - the same,
once shoulders, and two shots sub q
and guys just buy some extra AA, if you gona add 4 ml of AA there will be no need for BW
03-08-2006, 07:04 PM
BW has BA in it, and degrades the peptide. Noone should be using BW with their IGF.Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf
slin pins have zero dead space between the barrel and the needle, so no need to "flush" to make sure you get your dose.. you'll get it.
AA at a particular PH (100mM) will keep IGF stable. Not all AA will do this.
03-08-2006, 08:22 PM
I get my IGF and AA from board sponsors who seem to have good reputations so I assume it's legit.Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
But I disagree with you on the slin pins. They can have back space. A lot depends on the vials seal. I've been using hgh for a while and normally reconstitute with a special B12 mixture. On one occasion I had to use BA. When the B12 arrived I tried to backload it. A few times the solution dripped into the other vial, and I was careful. This was apparent because I was using clear and colored solutions.
03-08-2006, 08:37 PM
i jus use one pin for both locations cuz theres SUCH as small amount of igf in that vial that i'm affraid i'll lose some if i use more than one pin, even after i dilute it with 2 extra ml's of AA its still such a small amountOriginally Posted by parttimer
03-08-2006, 11:08 PM
First off, I never said the board sponsor didn't carry 100mM AA.... I was just making sure people didn't go run out and get glacial AA and reconstitute as is...Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf
You can disagree with me, but slin pins are known to have ZERO deadspace.. quite expected when you're dealing with something that requires accurate dosing such as insulin. I don't understand how the vial's seal comes into play, but... regardless. We'll agree to disagree.
Also to reitterate for anyone else out there, please don't add BW or BA to your IGF.. If you want to dilute it, add 100mM Acetic Acid.
Also, I always use 2 pins/day.. I never share pins for different sites... it's unsanitary and irresponsible. For the cost of a box of 3/10 slin pins compared to an infection.. I'd go for shelling out more dough.. I've had an abcess.. not fun.
03-08-2006, 11:31 PM
Pardon me if I put you on the defensive. It was never my intention. I thought you were adressing me and merely stated my assumption. We can agree to disagree, but I think we agree on almost everything as it is.Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
03-09-2006, 04:16 PM
It must be pointed out that while it is true that diluting IGF with bacteriostatic water in the vial is a big no-no, it is PERFECTLY ALLRIGHT to add some BW to the syringe right before injecting. This helps many things, among which pushing out any air without losing precious IGF-1.Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
03-09-2006, 06:37 PM
Sterile Acetic Acid 100 mM 25 ml
Our Price: $8.00
I would show source, but i gues it is against forum rools
so do google........
03-09-2006, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by Grunt76
In all respect Grunt, it is completely unnnecessary in my humple opinion. Air itself will purge the liquid inside, and as I already stated regarding the zero dead space in slin pins, BW is superfluous.
I personally have ran 5 mg's of IGF with just AA as a carrier, and I honestly think it is the simplest, easiest way.. no need to add more variables into the mix... JMO.
03-09-2006, 07:26 PM
Yeh we can disagree, that's all good. But if all you have is your 1mg/ml solution in AA, don't you add BW to the syringe? I mean, doing 40mcg divided in 2 is too small an amount for these clutzy fingers to push exactly through...
03-09-2006, 07:37 PM
i hear if you do systemic route do BEFORE working out
03-09-2006, 07:49 PM
No brother, I add another ml of AA to the vial at LEAST.. and I calculate my dosing from there. I have had as low a concentration as 1mg/5ml ----200mcg/ml, so that every tick/gradiation was 2mcg...Originally Posted by Grunt76
But now I only use 500mcg/ml concentration (1 grad/tick=5mcg) and take it up to the 4th gradiation on the barrel on two syringes.
03-13-2006, 03:59 AM
i add 1 ml of aa to the powder to reconstitute. Draw back 80mcg, draw back the rest of the way with BW then do half in each muscle pwo. Works for me...BTW can't feel **** from a slin pin its a joke.
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