Lion IGF test results

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    Exclamation lion exposed yet again


    for those of you that use lion products, here's another warning to stay away.

    posted by liftsiron:

    Lion's IGF-1 http://www.premiermuscle.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=5957

    It was tested by a ph.d chemist at an indepedant lab, here is what was found.


    The test is conclusive. There is BSA in the IGF-1 and a buttload of it! The lighter signal for HSA may come from the cross-reactivity I mentioned (very likely).

    We also tested it to see if it was

    1. receptor grade
    2. human IGF-1.

    There was initially some ambiguity as to whether some of the IGF was porcine (pig) because of some slight cross reactivities. The diluted experiment clarified that. It is human and it is receptor grade. unfortunately, we ran out of sample before we could do the diluted run to determine if the HSA signal was just cross reactivity related or if there is actually a little HSA in there along with the gobs of BSA. I am 99% certain there is no HSA and here is why:

    Pharmaceutical preps of IGF-1 do exist but they are the whole intact protein, not just the binding region (receptor grade). No receptor grade IGF or other receptor grade protein was ever developed for human use or even animal use. Receptor grade proteins are strictly used to determine binding constants and stuff like that in a petre dish. Since receptor grade was never intended for human use, it is produced in growth medium that contains BSA as a stabilizer (BSA is cheap). There would be no incentive to use more expensive HSA to stabilize something not intended for human use. When it was lyophylized (freeze dried), the BSA was included to stabilize the LR3 IGF-1. Without it, the IGF-1 would just fall apart in storage.

    Lion does not make this stuff. There are only a handful of places that do make it (5 to be exact). He has to buy it from one of those companies. They all likely use BSA to stabilize their product.

    This stuff isn't fit to inject into an animal, little lone a human being.

    I will try to be more clear in my expanation here: Lion's stuff was applied to a plate with BSA antibodies in one column and HSA antibodies in another separate column. When Lion's stuff was applied to antibodies for BSA they lit up like Chernobyl! Definite positive for BSA. There was also a lighter reaction with the HSA antibodies. This was caused by our overloading the sample and causing a little cross reactivity. BSA and HSA are very similar proteins after all.

    Just for argument's sake, let's say that it was HSA and no BSA was present. What we would have seen is the opposite. The HSA antibodies would have lit up brightly and the BSA antibodies would have had a fainter reaction (due to cross-reactivity).

    DO you see what I am saying here? There is absolutely no doubt that Lion's LR3 IGF-1 contains BSA and a LOT of it. 100% sure; stake my life and reputation on it!

    There is some slight chance that there is ALSO a little HSA in it. Since we couldn't do the diluted run, we can't rule that out completely. I really doubt that is the case though. Ultimately though, it doesn't matter. The fact that there are high levels of BSA in it make this product dangerous to life and health. Any small amounts of HSA present won't change that.

    Lion has lied to you and everyone else about nearly every aspect of this product.

    LION SAYS: receptor grade stuff incorporates the whole sequence for IGF-1 with a 13 amino acid side chain to prolong biological half life. It was developed for human use and is the cleanest, best stuff to use for maximum results. (paraphrasing of course)

    THE TRUTH: Receptor grade IGF-1 is not the whole intact protein and was never intended to use in live animals or humans. It does not possess the same biological activity of native IGF-1 and in fact, may actually hinder one from utilizing their own IGF-1. It can only be detrimental to growth; not helpful to it.

    LION SAYS: The diluent he sells is the best one because it contains the binding protein neccesary for stabilizing the IGF-1 (thus the BP in the name). All other diluents are inferior.

    THE TRUTH: The diluent he sells contains no protein of any kind. It is just salt water. The BP in the name simply refers to the grade of saline. Fisher Scientific sells no less than five different grades including USP and BP grades. BP refers to British Pharmacopeia (USP stands for US Pharmacopeia).

    LION SAYS: The product is completely human grade and contains no BSA (as per PM's to Skyefire and myself on Superior Muscle).

    THE TRUTH: The product, in fact, contains an enormous amount of BSA and even if it didn't, it could not be considered "human grade" since receptor grade proteins were not developed for use in ANY living thing, little lone humans.

    Something to keep in mind from one of my earlier posts on this subject. These growth mediums stabilized with BSA contain many more bovine proteins and hormones than just BSA. What they do is just add plain old bovine serum (or fetal bovine calf serum). The serum contains all the proteins and hormones you would expect to find in cow blood. Albumin is just the major protein fraction found in blood so there is more of that than any of the others. There is still going to be things like bovine insulin, bovine growth hormone, etc. A similar danger of immune response exists for all of these bovine proteins; not just the BSA.

    Remember, mice injected with HSA DIE WITHIN 4 OR 5 DAYS due to massive hemmorages in their kidneys. This is due to an immune response where they begin forming antibodies to mouse serum albumin. This causes their blood to start clotting all over the place. Apparently, this first happens in their kidneys and the blood clots rupture blood vessels and they bleed to death before further immune response can clot the rest of their blood up. Looks pretty damn painful actually.....
    __________________


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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    as always, go with the trusted! Thanks, Beelz.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Who is lion?

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    I had a hunch those guys were not right. THANK YOU BEELZE!

    I do pity those guys paying up to 300$ /mg for "True receptor grade" Ugh...

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    What the hell does all that mean? Other than Lion is a bad dealer....

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    What the hell does all that mean? Other than Lion is a bad dealer....
    Stop it bro, we'll start thinking it's really you in the avy...

    Seriously bro, I don't get all of the details either, but the gist of it is... Lion's a bad dealer, just like you said.

    Gawd I like this editing feature.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    I wish I had a chest that big.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    from SB:

    Prions are suspected in Alzheimers, MadCow, and the like as brain destroying materials. The problem is that the body can be exposed to them, they lay dormant, and when you are 50 BAMMMM...dementia.

  9. Pax
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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    So is the IGF-1 LR3 we bought from board sponsors going to **** us when we're 50?

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    lion isn't a board sponsor

    used to be though, couple years back.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    lion isn't a board sponsor

    used to be though, couple years back.
    Even back then he wasn't a sponsor..

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    lion isn't a board sponsor

    used to be though, couple years back.
    I think I remember when their products were sold by some of the board sponsors here.

    And damn Beelz... I hope I never piss you off and meet you in a dark alley....

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    lion is the rizzer of research chems.

    *to be fair, I never had any hideous probs at Smi2le (aside from some extremely lethargic shipping), but I know of the horror stories...

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    If taste is any indication, their Nolva is WAAAY underdosed, if dosed at all.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    hmm hows their nolva? I used it for a pct + atd and recovery seemed oftly slow.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrownedOne
    If taste is any indication, their Nolva is WAAAY underdosed, if dosed at all.
    Any research chem you need to squirt 10x in your mouth isn't worth buying IMO..

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    okay, this is beginning to make sense now...no wonder why my pct seemed useless.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    their is nolva is hit or miss. out of 3 bottles, 2 were bad.

    bigpete, my bad. was it PN that carried their products for a while? it's been a while.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Their nolva sucks, it was the first nolva I ever ran after a M1T cycle... Peppermint flavored must have meant no nolva at all, because I was still screwed up after that bottle.

    Hey beelz I posted a nice review on lionnutrion website since I still had my account there regarding the igf

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    lol, doesn't change much. their bad practices have already given them a horrible rep. i don't see any way possible they can ever bounce back.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    lol, doesn't change much. their bad practices have already given them a horrible rep. i don't see any way possible they can ever bounce back.
    hey here is an idea!! GO TO SLEEP!!!

    How is that chest going to heal if your up all the time!!

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    dude, it's 7:45am here. i'm leaving for school in 10 mins. i'm doing rehab on it with 5lbs disks in the gym. it's barely sore anymore, but it won't be ready for any serious weight any time soon.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Ok BSA bad

    HSA good? Me got that right I thunk

    I am confused about the receptor vs. media grade...

    Receptor grade is not fit for humans?

    And your comment on prions ... Is that referring to mad cow disease..or that igflr3 is not good.

    What is HSA and BSA?

    If only 5 pharmas are making this stuff and only using BSA? Where is the stuff fit for Humans?

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    I think that means that the so-called "receptor grade IGF-1" isn't actually IGF-1, but just the part of IGF-1 that connects to the receptors... Wait... I think these are insulin receptors... Not sure... Anyways... So it isn't even the complete IGF-1 amino acid sequence.

    The media grade Long R3 IGF-1 isn't made for humans either, but it IS the whole IGF-1 sequence, elongated and modified so as to avoid being neutralized by IGFBP, giving is a much longer half-life. I do believe this is heavily used in animals and thus generally considered theoretically safe to use in humans although obviously no one in their right mind would inject a veterinary product in a human being.

    So finally, media grade is good, receptor grade is bad. Because so-called "receptor grade" isn't IGF-1 in the first place. That it contains prions is immaterial once you know that, as you should throw any "real receptor grade" IGF-1 in the toilet, given that it isn't IGF-1. Or better yet, get your money back. With apologies.

    Of course prions are BAD for you and there are prions in all of the so-called receptor grade IGF-1, as per this article.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Thanks again grunt your da man. Looks like I have some reading to do on prions.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    lion products = LIAR products

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Quote Originally Posted by brandozzz
    lion products = LIAR products
    My first exp w clen/T3 was with Lion...I was always wondering why I wasnt experiencing some the sides I was supposed too...Like uhh I dont know ....maybe weight loss.

    I have also tried the tamox...never again..

    Overpriced and underdosed

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    lion= PWN3D

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    What in the **** does this "PWN3D" mean?

    I keep seeing that but have no ****ing clue.

    This damn internet talk.
    (I feel like my grandfather....)

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    i think it's owned with that little dude getting smashed with a hammer. smiley thing

    i'm probably out of the loop though. took me a while to figure out that 'my bag' had switched to 'my bad'.

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    What in the **** does this "PWN3D" mean?
    PWN3D=owned, where P=O, 3=E.

    also, popular is

    lol!!!!!!1!11!1one

  32. Registered User
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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    pn carried it and thelegal gear guy's before they started there company had a online store that sold there stuff,i believe they sold the store to lion when they went full steeam ahead with legal gear brand

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    moral of the story

    don't buy lion products.

  34. Senior Member
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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    this didn't take long to get out

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    this didn't take long to get out

    thats a good thing

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    I still get emails from them trying to sell me their wares...half to put a stop to that.

  37. VES
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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    OK- everytime I go to a site, it seems like they give big props to their sponsors. You have IBE here, lion there, ag-g**s there, and everyone has something negative to say about the other. Check it out if you want- but they all talk about IBE that way- except for the few disputed standouts- how serious a difference is there between these research companies? They act like the other places seriously underdose their chems...is this B.S. or what- because I was getting ready to order from IBE...just before they stopped their sale, and now I'm wondering how much of this is rhetoric and how much is actually different?

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    Re: lion exposed yet again


    I have seen what you speak of, firsthand. You won't go wrong with the sponsors HERE. This is Anabolicminds after all, the place where everything gets dissected at least twice with all the possible angles double-checked.

    IBE is one of the only so-called "research chem" houses that has developed its own, innovative, unique products. They are at the forefront of bodybuilding science. Where else will you get the tropins? Go to their board and you will see that these guys care about the science, and putting CARE into things is a lot more difficult than putting *FLAVOR* in chems, then calling yourself the best and charging double price. For the SAME chems you can get everywhere else.

  39. Senior Member
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    Lion IGF test results


    For anyone that hasn't seen this. if its a problem let me know


    Here is the report:

    The purpose of this study was to determine the existence of bovine serum albumin (BSA) in a preparation of Long R3 IGF-1 marketed as a kit, including “1 mg Lyophilized Long R3 IGF-1 Receptor Grade” by Superior-Research.com. Secondarily, the presence of a “binding/stabilizing” protein in the supplied diluent was in question and was therefore evaluated as well. The kit, as received, included a 10 ml plastic package (vial) of saline (Sodium Chloride Injection BP), a small glass vial containing a white, powdery substance labeled as coming from ”Research Unlimited” and an empty glass vial for mixing the two. This product is also offered on lionnutrition.com, research-4life.com, musclesci-research.com, ironcorpsresearch.com and anabolicreview-research.com.

    The name “Long™ R3 IGF-1” is registered and trademarked, with the “Long” referring to the clone, not the added amino acid chain on the N-terminus. Additionally, this protein is created from an immature pre-cursor of IGF-1 and is not completely identical to the native protein (the R3 substitution is not withstanding). The fact that this product is provided in one glass vial and intended to be transferred to another on reconstitution would indicate the need for significant protein content to prevent considerable loss of product through nonspecific binding to the glass and syringes (since the provided diluent is intended for intravenous or intramuscular injection, one would assume the final diluted product itself is intended for administration in a similar fashion). When asked how this non-specific binding was avoided, Superior-Research.com provided documentation that strongly implied the presence of BSA. When confronted with the potential immunogenicity of this approach, the response was to back-pedal and substitute a “proprietary mix of human-grade proteins” for “BSA” in the explanation.

    Upon receipt from Superior-research.com, the kit was prepared using 4 ml of the provided diluent to give a final IGF-1 concentration of 250 ug/ml and will herein be referred to as the test solution. The test solution and the diluent were colorimetrically evaluated for the presence of protein using the Bicinchoninic acid/Copper II protein assay (BCA Protein Assay Kit by Pierce). Briefly, the presence of protein is indicated by a color change to purple from green. The format of the assay was positive/negative with no quantitation. The test solution was a very strong positive while the diluent was completely negative. The conclusion drawn from this result is that the supplied diluent does not contain any protein whatsoever.

    The presence of BSA was determined using a modified dot-blot process. The test solution (200 ul per spot, 8 spot grid pattern) was bound to nitrocellulose membranes held within a dot-blot apparatus under vacuum. Positive control spots (200 ul each) of 1 mg/ml of BSA (Sigma-Aldrich) and 1 mg/ml of human serum albumin (HSA, Sigma-Aldrich) were also placed on the membrane. Any protein applied would be bound to the nitrocellulose membrane. After application of the test spots, the membranes were blocked in goat serum. (This methodology uses the goat serum albumin to “fill in” the rest of the space on the membrane, preventing the antibodies from background staining the entire membranes.) After blocking, one membrane was probed with monoclonal antibodies for BSA (mouse anti-BSA unconjugated monoclonal Ab-1, LabVision) and one was probed with monoclonal antibodies for HSA (mouse anti-HSA monoclonal Ab, Biodesign). Both were specific and not cross-reactive with goat serum albumin. The monoclonal antibodies will bind to the BSA or the HSA, if present. The membranes were washed three times and probed with HRP-conjugated rabbit anti-mouse antibodies (ProteoQwest Chemiluminescent Western Blotting Kit, Sigma-Aldrich) and washed three times. The chemiluminescent substrate (same ProteoQwest kit) is then added and the horseradish peroxidase (HRP) enzymatically activates luminol, producing light emissions which are recorded on Kodak film. The presence of a light signal, indicated by the dark blots on the film, indicate the presence of BSA or HSA.

    The test for BSA was conclusive. The BSA film showed nine significant, in fact, over-loaded, signals corresponding to the eight test solution spots and the 1 mg/ml BSA spot, as well as one lighter spot at the HSA position on that blot. The HSA film was negative except for the one spot corresponding to the HSA spot. The lighter signal detected for HSA on the BSA blot likely comes from non-specific binding and cross-reactivity. The greatly reduced intensity of the spot as compared to the same spot on the HSA blot would support that supposition. This laboratory cannot confirm the source of the BSA found in the test solution, only that it was present in the sample we received.

    Given the positive result for BSA, the identity of the protein as IGF-1 also fell into question. To begin with, authentic receptor grade Long™ R3 IGF-1 protein (DSLaboratories) was evaluated by dot blot (as described above) to choose the antibody (mouse anti-human IGF-1 MoAb or mouse anti-human IGF-1 polyclonal Ab, both from DSLaboratories) which could also identify that version of the protein. Results were questionable with the monoclonal, so a polyclonal antibody to human IGF-1 was chosen to ensure adequate signal. With suitable standards available, polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis, followed by Western Blot was used to evaluate the identity of the protein in the test solution. Besides probing for human versions of the protein, as an additional control, antibodies to sheep, porcine, bovine, murine rabbit and rat IGF-1 were also used. The signal was strong for human IGF-1, but there was some signal from the porcine IGF-1 antibody. This spurious signal was eliminated by diluting the test solution to 100 ug/ml (sample overloading artifact). The results would indicate the protein is, in fact, human IGF-1. However, no definitive statement can be made about Long™ R3 IGF-1 as compared to mature, native recombinant human IGF-1.

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    here is the "documentation" that was refered to

    Quote Originally Posted by buyb12
    ok lets set the record straight. Any IGF-1 that comes pre diluted is dead and worthless. the Peptide is too fragil to survive shipping.

    Research unlimited's ( sold@superior-research )IGF-1 is a Lyophilized power it is stable. once it is diluted it must be refrigerated just above freezing. Is good 9 -10 weeks.

    Every kit will now ship with 1 vial of 1mg powder igf-1 , 1 10 ml amp of sodium Chloride and a sealed sterile 10 ml vial for storing the mixed igf-1

    Note: I'm using this for the first time. I'm in week 2 . I haven't been trainning for months. I will start back after the first of the year. I have noticed a loss in body fat and a hardening of my muscles..... I will keep you posted.
    was further question and answered

    His reply
    Quote Originally Posted by buyb12
    LongTMR³IGF-I has been demonstrated to be stable in culture medium at the working concentration of 10-50 ng/ml in the presence of 0.01-1 mg/ml carrier protein (bovine serum albumin) for up to eight days at 37°C. Losses in biological activity will occur in the absence of carrier protein, presumably due to absorption of peptide to glass or plastic surfaces. We recommend that a carrier protein be included in working solutions of LongTMR³IGF-I if the peptide is to be used in serum-free media.


    the info above comes from Gropep ...

    We ship Sodium Chloride injection Bp ( binding protien ) the real issue is the temp .....It really needs to be cold. Ba has no binding protein. Without the protein it binds to the glass. Get what you pay for.

    more info is avalable for anyone interested.

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    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-24-2003, 04:26 PM

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