IGF-1--20mcg/day???

Ubiquitous

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Hmm, this would be interesting if people had good results from 20mcgs... verryyy interesting indeed.

Having said that, I'll let you know what 80mcg feels like in a month or so...I'm upping it next time.. lol.

BTW Kwycke, good to see you made it ;)
 
Ubiquitous

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LOL, of course you were. ;)

On a serious note, bump if anyone used low dose and got results.
 

DarkAngel

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My roomate and I are starting today, and after reading the posts, we're going to do 20mcg a day, and see how it works...it's both of our first experiences with igf.
 
kwyckemynd00

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LOL...No big secret...Kind of an inside joke thing.

See bry151's post above...its says "On a serious note..." <-- :lol:





anyway, big BUMP on this thread. I hope someone has some input regarding the issue.
 
Pioneer

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im waiting for bobos response, he was the last one to go ahead and say he was going to run this type of cycle.
 

DarkAngel

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Started it yesterday...see the log in this thread =D
 
kwyckemynd00

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Bumping again for anybody with information! :)
 
kwyckemynd00

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A summary of IGF-1 by a "self experimenter".

Here is an article written by a self-experimenter.

December 15, 2000

Answer: What a perfect question! You actually have talked to just the right person. I have a business associate that worked for the company that produces this in Australia. Several years ago, I ordered 10mg of Long R3 IGF-1 and used it for several months. What I found out was truly amazing.

Before I tell you about my results, let me tell you that if you are going to use IGF-1 then make sure it is the Long R3 version! Let me explain. Regular IGF-1 like what is produced in your body is transported around connected to binding proteins. There are quite a few of these and their main purpose is to grab ahold of the IGF-1 peptide and keep it from being quickly degraded. Without these binding proteins, all of the IGF-1 would be metabolized in the body within a few minutes. The problem (at least it seems like a problem but might actually be a good thing) is that these binding proteins basically prevent the IGF-1 from performing its function. As long as IGF-1 is attached to the binding protein it cannot do the cool stuff that it wants to do. Regular IGF-1 must be released from its binding protein in order to accomplish its mission. Part of the problem is that much of the IGF-1 is degraded before it is released (seems like much is wasted doesn’t it?)

With Long R3 IGF-1 this problem doesn’t exist. Understand that the Long R3 version does not bind to the various binding proteins. It is free to move throughout your body and immediately start doing all the cool stuff that it wants to do. Again, understand that the Long R3 version is several orders of magnitude stronger than regular IGF-1.

If you would happen to use regular IGF-1, you would need several milligrams per day in order to get the desired effect. With the Long R3 version, you need only microgram quantities. Long R3 is also inherently MUCH cheaper to produce. What I am saying is that for the average person, regular IGF-1 is not practical-it is too expensive and you need to use too much. With Long R3 IGF-1, the price to results ratio is pretty good!

Something else I want to explain is how I went about preparing it for injection into my body. Unfortunately, this is not easy and the average person will have a hard time doing it. At the time, I worked in a sophisticated lab which had all of the necessary equipment. I ordered 10mg of Long R3 IGF-1 and it came in a single flip-top vial. 10mg might not seem like much but believe me, when it comes to Long R3 IGF-1, it is a ton! Some people might say to just add saline to the vial, keep it in the fridge and inject it when necessary. However, this will not work well because the IGF-1 is not highly stable and will degrade in an aqueous environment. 10mg was enough for many months and I needed a way that would allow the IGF-1 to remain potent during this entire time. I did my research and developed my method. I ordered what is known as microvials and sterilized them. I then diluted the IGF-1 with sterile water and added just a tad of acid to increase stability. Although it took quite a while, I then used a micropipette and alliquotted an amount of solution that contained 50mcg into one of my microvials. I closed the microvial and then froze it in a deep freezer. When I was ready to inject, I took out one or more of my microvials, thawed it out, combined it with saline and injected it.

When I first started taking Long R3 IGF-1, I used 50mcg every other day. Amazingly, within days, I started noticing some effects in my body. I felt super hungry all of the time and just felt “anabolic�. I can’t describe this feeling except to say that it was very similar to being on anabolic steroids (I wasn’t on at the time). Within one month, I gained almost 17 pounds of fairly lean mass! After the first month, something happened though and I noticed that it didn’t seem to be working that well. I upped the dosage several times over the next month to keep up the desired effects. On the third month, I was using several hundred micrograms per day but wasn’t noticing any further gains. All in all, I gained about 20 pounds of pretty solid mass!

Please notice that almost all of my gains were within the first month of taking the Long R3 IGF-1. After this first month, my gains slowed down considerably and eventually stopped altogether even though I was taking high dosages. Why did this happen?

From all of my research, I suppose one of two things might have happened to prevent me from making further gains. What I truly suspect is that the Long R3 IGF-1 downregulated the amount of binding proteins being produced by my body (research confirms this). When I first started to inject the IGF-1, I was supplementing my own body’s IGF-1. I not only had my own IGF-1 working throughout the day but I had the potent surges of Long R3 IGF-1 that I would inject. Over time though, the binding proteins were downregulated. Of course my body continued to produce some (albeit less) IGF-1, however, because there were very little or no binding proteins it was quickly degraded. From what I can tell, I was in a state where 95% of the day my body did not have the benefits of IGF-1. Basically, it got what it got when I injected the Long R3 version.

The other possibility is that I built up antibodies to the Long R3 IGF-1 which basically sought out and destroyed what I injected. Although possible, I don’t believe this actually happened because it is not supported by research. I have seen no evidence which suggests that Long R3 IGF-1 causes antibody production.

To fix the above problem, one would have to cycle the Long R3 IGF-1. The best thing would probably be to take it every other month. This would allow your own body’s IGF-1 and binding proteins to return to normal.

Overall, I had a good experience with Long R3 IGF-1. The results were different than with steroids. I have noticed that steroids cause preferential growth of certain muscles, especially those that are stressed (as in lifting). The IGF-1 though seemed to cause my entire body to get a little thicker. I guess IGF-1 is less compensatory in nature and exerts a more whole-body anabolicity.

Would I recommend IGF-1? To the right person who is very careful and knows what he’s doing and has a good background in the sciences and has access to a good lab, YES! However, you can tell that I have listed many prerequisites to using it. For the average Joe, I believe is is just too complicated to be safe.
More evidence 20mcg/day may be all that's necessary.

I hope the results from 20mcg/day are there, because this will make IGF-1 a MUCH more affordable supplement for MANY people. And, with its many benifits (for those who respond well), it would just be a god-send.
 
kwyckemynd00

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I'm about to stop bumping :(

Has anybody used IGF-1 at 20mcg/day who can compare? :sad:
 
CROWLER

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Even if you find alot of guys had success with 20 a day of course that does not mean that another person will. So say you but the IGF because 2 guys say they had success with 20 a day.

You get it and 20 a day does nothing. SO what does that mean you are a nonresponder or does it only mean you need 30 or 40 a day. So you of course would probably increase your does.

So IMO any way you look at it you just have to do it or no. To me $175 for 1 month is WAY too much for that much you could get 5 months of cycles with AS powders.


Just my opinion.



CROWLER
 
kwyckemynd00

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Your point is well taken, CROWLER. Its just that at some point HPTA recovery and overall health "should" be important to us, and IGF-1 offers a way to make PCT bigger and better, maintain gains better while placing very little stress on our bodies, and not to mention a host of other benifits of IGF-1.

Now, I understand some people need different amounts of certain substances, but to be needing 5x more seems a bit off to me. It seems illogical that one persons body would have 5x as many receptors as another or 5x as much of an opposing binding protein. Just like most people would say taking 5 grams of test is a bit too much :D

And, side effects generally are dose-dependent, so having narrowed down a good reference point would really benifit those of us who are trying to avoid as many of the side effects as possible.

Its still damn expensive even at 20mcg/day, but no more expensive than eating mcdonalds :)
 

DarkAngel

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I guess a big question I have is, since this is my first cycle of IGF1, when should I notice results, and if I don't then should I up the dosage from 20mcg. Since I don't see anyone posting on trying it, I'm not sure when to bump the dosage if it isn't doing it for me.
 

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Going to be slow going, but hopefully I can answer a lot of these questions (at least from my standpoint) soon. About to try a run of Orotropin to see how it compares to MR's IGF-1 with equal doses. Last two runs of MR's was at 40 a dose, same as the orotropin.

Anyway, about a month after this, I plan to try it at 20 a dose. Not sure if I will go with IM or the oral yet, that depends on this next run. I do know I have had pretty much equal response at 30, 40, and 50 a day injected IM. I don't see it to be unreasonable though that 20 a day could work just as well. I know it would make my bank account happy.
 
CROWLER

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I think I wasn't clear.

If I was going to use it I would start at 20.

as you say why waste the extra 20 if you don't need to.


CROWLER
 

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I will solidify the prior info that results taper off after 21-28 days. Even trying to ramp the does from 30 to 60mcg made no difference other than greater side effects. With a 4 week off period between cycles, there appears to be no tolerence build up either. I have taken 2 months off at times, just to be safe, but the 1 month off seems to be perfect.

I started my use at 30 a day. Later runs ranged from 30 to 50 (50 consistantly, 60 at the most at the end of a ramping period). I would honestly suggest 30-40 a dose, any higher doesn't seem to offer any benefit. But that is only from prior knowledge, my upcoming run at 20 a dose might change my opinion again. I hope it does.
 

ss01

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Personally, I had greater results at 40mcg IM PWO than at 30mcg, but then again, I DECREASED the dosage to see if the 30 would work as well as 40, so this might be a totally worthless observation for someone starting at 20 or 30 and taking it up from there. Next time I'll start lower.
 

NevrEnuf

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for those of you who used 40-60mcg, did you inject one side of your body in the am and the other side later or did you guys jus get it all done in one shot im?
 

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for those of you who used 40-60mcg, did you inject one side of your body in the am and the other side later or did you guys jus get it all done in one shot im?
Have done it every way really. Split in the morning, the other side pwo, all at once PWO keeping tabs to do the other side when that day of the split rolls around, and 2 pins PWO in each side.

I would have to recommend splitting the larger dose during the day to avoid hypo, but hopefully the larger doses aren't really needed.
 

NevrEnuf

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Have done it every way really. Split in the morning, the other side pwo, all at once PWO keeping tabs to do the other side when that day of the split rolls around, and 2 pins PWO in each side.

I would have to recommend splitting the larger dose during the day to avoid hypo, but hopefully the larger doses aren't really needed.
Well i was planning on doing 40mcg a day for 25 days but as i read this thread i may only need 20. I was just trying to find the most painless preferred method of injection by yall>?
 

ss01

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I loved pinning bilateral PWO. So on chest day, 20mcg in my left pec, and 20mcg in my right pec. IMMEDIATELY PWO is how it was done. About 3 minutes after my last set, to be precise, just long enough to gulp down carbs and protein.

I didn't make a point of eating lots of carbs afterwards and did feel quite a bit of lethargy. Later on, I trained at night and pinned PWO and my lethargy happened at night. THAT might be a reason why I found lessened results with 30mcg: no food to go with the IGF.
 

NevrEnuf

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I loved pinning bilateral PWO. So on chest day, 20mcg in my left pec, and 20mcg in my right pec. IMMEDIATELY PWO is how it was done. About 3 minutes after my last set, to be precise, just long enough to gulp down carbs and protein.

I didn't make a point of eating lots of carbs afterwards and did feel quite a bit of lethargy. Later on, I trained at night and pinned PWO and my lethargy happened at night. THAT might be a reason why I found lessened results with 30mcg: no food to go with the IGF.
Couple questions for you ss,
Firstly assuming that you work out at a gym, how is it possible that you pin 3 minutes after your last set? (is this what is supposed to be done)

and i remember readin it somewhre but why can't you eat carbs for i think it was 30minutes after your shot? I usually have a huge protein shake and a baked potato immediately pwo to keep insulin levels high and prevent muscle breakdown
 

ss01

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From what information I have gathered (I first learnt of IGF-1 13 years ago when it was the newest thing, no Long R3 or anything like that) the best time to administer is IMMEDIATELY PWO as that is the point when the receptors are at their highest level of activity. How much of that activity diminishes in the first say, 15 minutes PWO I haven't a clue, so I just made a point to finish my workout, zip to the locker room, gulp down my homemade shake, grab my stuff, go to the shower room or toilet and pin there. I have it good, the showers are in separate, lockable rooms each with their own sink, mirror, etc. Like a private bathroom without the toilet. My 40mcg was pre-measured in the syringe, all I had to do was add some BW, take out the bubble and pin.

I don't understand your second question. I didn't have hypoglycemia for a while because I had a shake but eventually it would show up. Interestingly, even though the half-life or active life of Long R3 IGF-1 is short, the hypo effects can be felt for many hours afterwards if one isn't careful to keep the carbs high. I was attempting to reduce bodyfat at the time, and I thought avoiding the carbs helped. In retrospect, it probably hindered the results, which still kicked ass. LOTS of localized growth.

Maybe that has everything to do with how quickly PWO I administered it.
 

NevrEnuf

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did you pin bilaterally immediatly pwo with that 40mcg?
 

ss01

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Yes. 20mcg right side, 20mcg on the left.

Carrying a preloaded syringe to the gym was a bit of a hassle but I'll do it this same way again next time, my results were just great. I did 500mcg total, 15 injections, gained ½" on my arms. :) And kept all of it. :D

The way I did it with the syringe is after loading it with the IGF so as to avoid carrying the whole vial to the gym, I put the pin cover back on, and used a small piece of aluminum foil rolled around the plunger stick at the other end of the syringe. That way, a small amount of pressure could not press the IGF out of it. Carried the little individual wrapped alcohol swab along with the syringe in a hard eyeglass case. Maybe you can find one in which your bacteriostatic water would also fit. Nice little kit.
 

NevrEnuf

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Yes. 20mcg right side, 20mcg on the left.

Carrying a preloaded syringe to the gym was a bit of a hassle but I'll do it this same way again next time, my results were just great. I did 500mcg total, 15 injections, gained ½" on my arms. :) And kept all of it. :D

The way I did it with the syringe is after loading it with the IGF so as to avoid carrying the whole vial to the gym, I put the pin cover back on, and used a small piece of aluminum foil rolled around the plunger stick at the other end of the syringe. That way, a small amount of pressure could not press the IGF out of it. Carried the little individual wrapped alcohol swab along with the syringe in a hard eyeglass case. Maybe you can find one in which your bacteriostatic water would also fit. Nice little kit.
GOOD IDEA, i'm taking notes!!!
what would you need the bacteriostatic water for tho
 

ss01

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Well, 40mcg is a tiny amount to inject. When pushing out the air bubble, some solution will be lost, so it's best if you're not pushing the air out with the pure IGF-1. Drawing out the BW allows you to do this and lose a minimal amount of IGF-1.

Why didn't I draw the BW into the syringe prior to going to the gym? Well the small aluminum stopper thingie works nice when the plunger is drawn back ¼" to ½" but if the syringe is nearly full, then you have to have a stopper that's 2" long or so, PLUS that makes your syringe that much longer, more difficult to carry without bending/breaking, and more prone to being pushed empty by shocks/motion inside your gym bag. I know for sure that there are no eyeglass cases that long on the market, too.
 

NevrEnuf

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does it have to be kept cool when you store it in the syringe and bring it to the gym?
 

ss01

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Nah, unless you train for 3 weeks in a gym that keeps a 120°F temperature in its locker room. ;) Seriously, it won't have time to degrade in an hour or 2 at room temp.
 
Pioneer

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From what information I have gathered (I first learnt of IGF-1 13 years ago when it was the newest thing, no Long R3 or anything like that) the best time to administer is IMMEDIATELY PWO as that is the point when the receptors are at their highest level of activity. How much of that activity diminishes in the first say, 15 minutes PWO I haven't a clue, so I just made a point to finish my workout, zip to the locker room, gulp down my homemade shake, grab my stuff, go to the shower room or toilet and pin there. I have it good, the showers are in separate, lockable rooms each with their own sink, mirror, etc. Like a private bathroom without the toilet. My 40mcg was pre-measured in the syringe, all I had to do was add some BW, take out the bubble and pin.

I don't understand your second question. I didn't have hypoglycemia for a while because I had a shake but eventually it would show up. Interestingly, even though the half-life or active life of Long R3 IGF-1 is short, the hypo effects can be felt for many hours afterwards if one isn't careful to keep the carbs high. I was attempting to reduce bodyfat at the time, and I thought avoiding the carbs helped. In retrospect, it probably hindered the results, which still kicked ass. LOTS of localized growth.

Maybe that has everything to do with how quickly PWO I administered it.
you ever inject in your chest?

(only ask since mine doesn't like to grow)
 

ss01

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Yes I have and obtained nice results from that. Only injected chest, bis and front delts because those were my lagging bodyparts. Now my only lagging bodypart is upper chest, and it lags much less than before.

My next use of IGF-1 will include a lot of chest injecs. :)
 
Pioneer

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would splitting up the site injections 20 left 20 right in one day be more beneficial than just 40 left one day then 40 right the next?
 

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The only issue I had with pinning twice PWO bilaterally was scar tissue build up. The pins are tiny, but two sticks every dosing day over numerous cycles adds up fast. I've gone back to all of the dose into one side, then hit the opposite side the next time the day my split rolls around.

Personal preference on that though.

I actually moved my workout from late in the day to a few hours earlier because of the late onset of hypo symptoms that set in at times. Even at 40, with a large shake and a meal soon after, I've gotten the hypo symptoms 2-3hrs after pinning. I decided not to risk a crash while I am asleep. Better safe than sorry.
 

NevrEnuf

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The only issue I had with pinning twice PWO bilaterally was scar tissue build up. The pins are tiny, but two sticks every dosing day over numerous cycles adds up fast. I've gone back to all of the dose into one side, then hit the opposite side the next time the day my split rolls around.

Personal preference on that though.

I actually moved my workout from late in the day to a few hours earlier because of the late onset of hypo symptoms that set in at times. Even at 40, with a large shake and a meal soon after, I've gotten the hypo symptoms 2-3hrs after pinning. I decided not to risk a crash while I am asleep. Better safe than sorry.
what dose were you experiencing those symptoms?
 
Pioneer

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The only issue I had with pinning twice PWO bilaterally was scar tissue build up. The pins are tiny, but two sticks every dosing day over numerous cycles adds up fast. I've gone back to all of the dose into one side, then hit the opposite side the next time the day my split rolls around.

Personal preference on that though.

I actually moved my workout from late in the day to a few hours earlier because of the late onset of hypo symptoms that set in at times. Even at 40, with a large shake and a meal soon after, I've gotten the hypo symptoms 2-3hrs after pinning. I decided not to risk a crash while I am asleep. Better safe than sorry.
alright, i like hitting one side one day then the other the next, thanks for the reply.
 
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About two years ago I ran it alone @ 40mcg a day....no visual results.

This spring I got two vials pretty cheap so I ran it at 100mcg a day along with AAS for 20 days. Again, nothing special. I would say all the gains I made during the cycle were from test/tren.

I never went hypo at all with IGF even @ 100mcg with less then 50g of low gi carbs.

IMO humalog @ 8-10 IU PWO worked much better.
 

judge-mental

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About two years ago I ran it alone @ 40mcg a day....no visual results.

This spring I got two vials pretty cheap so I ran it at 100mcg a day along with AAS for 20 days. Again, nothing special. I would say all the gains I made during the cycle were from test/tren.

I never went hypo at all with IGF even @ 100mcg with less then 50g of low gi carbs.

IMO humalog @ 8-10 IU PWO worked much better.
I must say the variability seen WRT IGF results is uncanny... which brand did you use of I may ask?
 

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Yes I have and obtained nice results from that. Only injected chest, bis and front delts because those were my lagging bodyparts. Now my only lagging bodypart is upper chest, and it lags much less than before.

My next use of IGF-1 will include a lot of chest injecs. :)
i have done a few cycles of igf1 and never noticed site-specific growth: i will be using 1 dose am and 1 pm from now on just to make sure it is in my system 24hrs. i get good results w/ it though but i don't know if i will jump on the 20ug/day band-wagon
 

ss01

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s. norman, how much did you use? And did you pin it IM PWO? If so, how long PWO?
 

s.norman

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i used 40ug/day and inj. 20 and 20ug bilaterally into muscle just trained usually within half hour after training. next time i will do 20ug am and 20 pm b/c i do not feel that it provides site-specific growth. i want to split the doses since i'm not sure what the half-life is and i can take advantage of igf-1 ability to shuttle glucose into muscle cells.
 

judge-mental

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i used 40ug/day and inj. 20 and 20ug bilaterally into muscle just trained usually within half hour after training. next time i will do 20ug am and 20 pm b/c i do not feel that it provides site-specific growth. i want to split the doses since i'm not sure what the half-life is and i can take advantage of igf-1 ability to shuttle glucose into muscle cells.
I think its a bad idea unless you are running GH with it(and even so I would'nt, GHRH is much to important). taking IGF not after intense training, esp 8 hours before sleep could rock bottom your GHRH and GH prodcution.
 

NevrEnuf

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taking IGF not after intense training, esp 8 hours before sleep could rock bottom your GHRH and GH prodcution.
I'm not quite sure what ur saying here..... are you saying you should take igf after intense training but not 8 hours before bed?
 

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