Is sleep really that important?
- 09-21-2005, 12:38 PM
Is sleep really that important?
Sounds like a stupid question... But I'm serious here.
As many of you are aware... I've been busting my ass for quite some time, beating my body into a more desirable shape. So far so good. About 7 months ago, I got involved with a gal (Who I love by the way.. sorry girls. ). Since that time, I in all honestly am lucky to get more then 5-5.5 hours of sleep a night mostly because of we need sometime at the end of the day to talk, I need to pick her kids up from baby sitters, do family like things etc.. On Week ends, I get about 7-8. It's the one area of my training that worries me, as it's a key ingredient of train/eat/sleep.
Falling asleep when I do put my head on the pillow is not a problem.. cause i'm usually light out quicker then I can say good night.
Basically they say you grow when you sleep... But do they say that, do they mean when you sleep your body releases growth hormone.. so the more sleep you get the more growth hormone your body releases? Is that a large factor? or a small factor?
The reason I ask, is I'm supplementing HGH for quite sometime now and plan to for quite a while longer.. with igf as well on a 3 weeks on 3 weeks off basis.. do you think this goes a long way in circumventing the Sleep requirement? or am I doomed with only 5 hours a sleep a night?
What ya think about that?
- 09-21-2005, 01:15 PM
sleep is one of the most important ingredients regardless of what you are using.....jay cutler sleeps 12+ hours a day!
09-21-2005, 01:20 PM
I'm in the same situation as you are as far as sleep goes, not because of a girl friend, but because I work 12 hour night shift and have a family. I'm 32 yr old so I think near your age. Its hard for me to sleep during the day anyway. I try to go the gym after work each morning around 8:30 am for about 45-60 min. The go straight home get in bed around 10:00. Sleep until 3:00 or so. My nights off I'll get a little more and I can definitely tell a difference when i do get more sleep. My muscles definitely don't recover as quickly as they used to, but I know thats probably also due to me getting older. I can also tell a difference in my strength when I do get more sleep. Either way, the more sleep you get the better off you'll be. Keep your diet in check to.
09-21-2005, 02:18 PM
Getting adequate sleep is one of the most important things. It's not even funny how many chemicals are released (durring and after) or lack there of with out proper sleep.
Ghrelin, GH, Testosterone, and Cortisol being some of the major ones...
I would seriously consider changing sleep patterns if at all possible. And that is straight sleep.. if sleep is interrupted so are the release of chemicals.
09-21-2005, 04:23 PM
09-22-2005, 01:42 PM
Sleep also affect letpin levels and TSH....
Summary for patients in:
Brief communication: Sleep curtailment in healthy young men is associated with decreased leptin levels, elevated ghrelin levels, and increased hunger and appetite.
Spiegel K, Tasali E, Penev P, Van Cauter E.
University of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois, USA.
BACKGROUND: Total sleep deprivation in rodents and in humans has been associated with hyperphagia. Over the past 40 years, self-reported sleep duration in the United States has decreased by almost 2 hours. OBJECTIVE: To determine whether partial sleep curtailment, an increasingly prevalent behavior, alters appetite regulation. DESIGN: Randomized, 2-period, 2-condition crossover clinical study. SETTING: Clinical Research Center, University of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois. PATIENTS: 12 healthy men (mean age [+/-SD], 22 +/- 2 years; mean body mass index [+/-SD], 23.6 +/- 2.0 kg/m2). MEASUREMENTS: Daytime profiles of plasma leptin and ghrelin levels and subjective ratings of hunger and appetite. INTERVENTION: 2 days of sleep restriction and 2 days of sleep extension under controlled conditions of caloric intake and physical activity. RESULTS: Sleep restriction was associated with average reductions in the anorexigenic hormone leptin (decrease, 18%; P = 0.04), elevations in the orexigenic factor ghrelin (increase, 28%; P < 0.04), and increased hunger (increase, 24%; P < 0.01) and appetite (increase, 23%; P = 0.01), especially for calorie-dense foods with high carbohydrate content (increase, 33% to 45%; P = 0.02). LIMITATIONS: The study included only 12 young men and did not measure energy expenditure. CONCLUSIONS: Short sleep duration in young, healthy men is associated with decreased leptin levels, increased ghrelin levels, and increased hunger and appetite.
Leptin levels are dependent on sleep duration: relationships with sympathovagal balance, carbohydrate regulation, cortisol, and thyrotropin.
Spiegel K, Leproult R, L'hermite-Baleriaux M, Copinschi G, Penev PD, Van Cauter E.
Department of Medicine, MC 1027, University of Chicago, 5841 South Maryland Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60637, USA.
Sleep plays an important role in energy homeostasis. The present study tests the hypothesis that circulating levels of leptin, a hormone that signals energy balance to the brain, are influenced by sleep duration. We also analyzed associations between leptin and sympathovagal balance, cortisol, TSH, glucose, and insulin under different bedtime conditions. Twenty-four-hour hormonal and glucose profiles were sampled at frequent intervals, and sympathovagal balance was estimated from heart rate variability in 11 subjects studied after 6 d of 4-h bedtimes (mean +/- sem of sleep duration during last 2 d: 3 h and 49 +/- 2 min) and after 6 d of 12-h bedtimes (sleep: 9 h and 03 +/- 15 min). A study with 8-h bedtimes was performed 1 yr later (sleep: 6 h and 52 +/- 10 min). Caloric intake and activity levels were carefully controlled in all studies. Mean levels, maximal levels, and rhythm amplitude of leptin were decreased (-19%, -26%, and -20%, respectively) during sleep restriction compared with sleep extension. The decrease in leptin levels was concomitant with an elevation of sympathovagal balance. The effects of sleep duration on leptin were quantitatively associated with alterations of the cortisol and TSH profiles and were accompanied by an elevation of postbreakfast homeostasis model assessment values. Measures of perceived stress were not increased during sleep restriction. During the study with 8-h bedtimes, hormonal and metabolic parameters were intermediate between those observed with 4-h and 12-h bedtimes. In conclusion, sleep modulates a major component of the neuroendocrine control of appetite.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Aug;85(8):2685-91.Related Articles, Links
Twenty-four-hour leptin levels respond to cumulative short-term energy imbalance and predict subsequent intake.
Chin-Chance C, Polonsky KS, Schoeller DA.
Department of Medicine, University of Chicago, Illinois 60637, USA.
Leptin plays a vital role in the regulation of energy balance in rodent models of obesity. However, less information is available about its homeostatic role in humans. The aim of this study was to determine whether leptin serves as an indicator of short-term energy balance by measuring acute effects of small manipulations in energy intake on leptin levels in normal individuals. The 12-day study was composed of four consecutive dietary-treatment periods of 3 days each. Baseline (BASE) [100% total energy expenditure (TEE)] feeding, followed by random crossover periods of overfeeding (130% TEE) or underfeeding (70% TEE) separated by a eucaloric (100% TEE) washout (WASH) period. The study participants were six healthy, nonobese subjects. Leptin levels serially measured throughout the study period allowed a daily profile for each treatment period to be constructed and a 24-h average to be calculated; ad libitum intake during breakfast "buffet" following each treatment period was also measured. Average changes in mesor leptin levels during WASH, which were sensitive to energy balance effected during the prior period, were observed. After underfeeding, leptin levels during WASH were 88 +/- 16% of those during BASE compared with 135 +/- 22% following overfeeding (P = 0.03). Leptin levels did not return to BASE during WASH when intake returned to 100% TEE, but instead were restored (104 +/- 21% and 106 +/- 16%; not significant) only after subjects crossed-over to complementary dietary treatment that restored cumulative energy balance. Changes in ad libitum intake from BASE correlated with changes in leptin levels (r2 = 0.40; P = 0.01). Leptin levels are acutely responsive to modest changes in energy balance. Because leptin levels returned to BASE only after completion of a complementary feeding period and restoration of cumulative energy balance, leptin levels reflect short-term cumulative energy balance. Leptin seems to maintain cumulative energy balance by modulating energy intake. I could go on... and on... but I think that should prove that lower leptin and thyroid stimulating hormone levels for someone trying to stay lean and healthy are NOT a good thing. Conclusion: Sleep more!
09-22-2005, 01:57 PM
Def have to agree with all who say u need more sleep Poobah, and by the way congrats on your transformation, pretty soon you will be in some posing trunks (jk) For real, being that you are trying to lose fat, leptin levels are so very important. In addition, this is quite funny in my early days of lifting i read an article in MuscleMag international on Big Cat training, and it had a section where it pointed out that Lions, and Panthers eat, as well as hunt and do other things, but they are extremely ripped, MM's summation was because they slept alot, in between hunting and feeding. Funny i know... but getting more rest, would it hurt you?
09-22-2005, 02:01 PM
yeah, but he's #2 and ronnie gets about 5-6 hours. personally, i think your body adapts to whatever it's constantly exposed to. ronnie obviously adapted from his lack of sleep when he was a cop. doesn't seem to have hindered his progress too much.Originally Posted by ryanbodybuilder
09-22-2005, 02:21 PM
I appreciate all the good info guys... but there just isn't alot I can do.. perhaps I can add a bit of time, changing a few things.. but more or less, sleep is hard to come by at this time in my life...
I guess a better question would be. Can supplementation make up for lack of sleep to a degree? And what supplements would help you capitalize on what little sleep you do get?
And thanks for the compliment Apowerz6.. but posing trunks are way off.. (post tummy tuck, thigh tuck, chest tuck.. ).. but you never know.
09-22-2005, 02:28 PM
Suddenly, I'm not so worried about the sleep thing.. lolOriginally Posted by Beelzebub
09-22-2005, 02:30 PM
I've been starting to adapt to less sleep...I think as long as you don't feel like ass when you wake up, you're probably okay Whether it be 5 hrs to 10 hrs...
Now, that being said, if I get 4-5 hours consistently for long periods of time I get thrashed, especially if I've got extra stress and then i lose my appetite and all hell breaks lose. I've dropped 40lbs on most of my lifts (for reps) in 3 weeks before as a result of those conditions.
But, normally, I don't get much sleep. Last night I got 5 hrs, the day before maybe 7-8. Some days I'll get 10 hrs as a catch up day. But at least 2-4 days per week I'm getting about 5 hrs of sleep a night, 6 if i'm lucky. This all st arted recently and I'm finally adapting to it.
09-22-2005, 02:39 PM
good buddy of mine gets 2-3 hours of sleep consistently because of working 2 jobs. took him about 4 months to adapt to it but now he's fine with it. he'll get 6 on weekends but he has to make himself sleep then.Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
oh, and he's 6'1" 260lbs with all 6. beastly is the word i use.
09-22-2005, 02:41 PM
Oh, and I think that some of our anabolics, etc, help us function better of less sleep, too...make sense right? faster regeneration == less sleep required.
thus a 300lb ronnie coleman operating off of 5-6 hrs of sleep.
09-22-2005, 02:46 PM
Please...Originally Posted by Poobah
With what that genetic freak has taken... I think he is an exception to the rule of sleep....
09-22-2005, 03:25 PM
I think ther is such a thing as too much sleep. If I get over 8 hrs./day, I'm a freaking zombie for the rest. I feel like utter crap...unmotivated, crabby, easily annoyed, loss of appetite, the list just goes on. It may be different for different people of course, but I am definatley one that cannot get more than 8 hrs. I actually prefer 6, go figure.
09-22-2005, 03:29 PM
I'm right there with you, Poobah, as I've got a new girl in my life and sleep has been nearly nonexistant: staying up for hours talking. So far, I'm making it, even with the hard job I have; but I definitely can't wait for things to go back to normal. I think over a very long time the deprivation may manifest itself in some small way as it's only a lack of a few hours. I think it may be more of not being as good as you could be because of lack of sleep, rather than really hurting yourself. One way or the other, your body can adapt to almost anything.
Hopefully things will turn around in your schedule allotting more time for the good stuff
Originally Posted by Poobah
09-22-2005, 04:28 PM
What you may perceive as small ways may not be small in reality or from anothers perspective. Periods of sustained sleep deprevation can create significant amounts of stress in ones life. Stress will have its way with you, whether you are aware of it or not. Unresolved stress will effect us by potentially manifesting itself inmardly in bouts of depression and outwardly as bouts of rage. The bouts of depression usually follow the lines of self loathing, worthlessness and self esteem issues and can sometimes be accompanied with substance use and abuse. The bouts of rage may be directed at the perceived perpetrator of a triggering but most often are directed at innocent victims. Usually the ones we profess to care about the most. Fortunately, if you have the insight into your behavior you may confess the unacceptable behavior to the innocent victim. Likely they will forgive you or already have in advance. But keep in mind, the forgiveness of your actions does not preclude the consequences.Originally Posted by TheCrownedOne
Life is a terminal condition.
She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.
09-22-2005, 04:42 PM
Damn why did u have to get all deep for... Its the truth though, stress does in fact creep up on you when you least expect it. I work with kids, and the ones with worst attitudes are the ones with no sleep, and poorest of diets. I am going through the forgiveness of stress induced ******* syndrome. My wife constantly deals with my mood swings from dieting pct, and lack of sleep due to high stress levels. So Poohbah to get sleep now ill help your relationship in the long run.Originally Posted by B5150
09-22-2005, 06:17 PM
09-22-2005, 06:29 PM
09-22-2005, 10:08 PM
I agree with this, on the weekends I usually dont have to get up too early for anything, I will wake up on my own at around 7 or so, but I go back to sleep because I dont need to get up. I keep waking up every ~30min or so, till about 11am when I just pass out again. Then I wake up at 1pm and just feel like ass, really groggy, no motivation, and I am pissed at myself for wasting part of the day...yet I keep doing this weekend after weekend lol. This morning for example, I woke up at 6:30am on my own, felt great, but I went back to sleep for a couple hours because I didnt have class yet, when it was time to get up, I could hardly get myself out of bed. Its kinda weird how it works this way, I just can never make myself get out of bed when I wake up on my own early...its so comfyOriginally Posted by lifted
09-23-2005, 03:44 AM
lol, bro, you just totally described my exact sleeping routine...same things with me....too comfy, and the fact that I have absolutley nothing to do that early on the weekends anyhow, I just force myself to go back to sleep...lol.Originally Posted by Nate Dawg
And the thing is, like you, when I wake up early by myself through my "mental clock", I feel okay and for the most part energized...but like was said, I make myself to fall back asleep...But, when my alarm clock wakes me up early, (not on my own) I have a very hard time waking up and starting my morning routine...but this usually goes away within 1-1.5 hours and then I'm good to go....but yes, very strange indeed.
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