- 07-31-2005, 01:01 AM
- 07-31-2005, 09:32 PM
- 07-31-2005, 11:52 PM
08-01-2005, 01:30 PM
it's in an injectable solution, you can ask him to put it in a transdermal for you though, ask for him to put it in Benzyl Alcohol
08-01-2005, 02:01 PM
08-01-2005, 03:05 PM
08-01-2005, 03:18 PM
Isn't this the stuff that allegedly grows humongous amounts of muscle in no time when injected IM and triggers massive apoptosis of adipocytes when used transdermally?
08-01-2005, 05:01 PM
And also causes explosive diarrhea and massive intestinal cramping.
Not to mention EXTREMELY painful injections.
Nonetheless, I'm intrigued about it. I think I'll probably opt to learn the hard way about this one. Sounds like it could be good for use during PCT.
Transdermally it doesn't sound too bad though.
08-01-2005, 05:13 PM
Exactly. I mean, if you're going to cut, you might as well get rid of the adipocyte at the same time, as it makes fat re-gain that much more difficult. Few supps achieve that.
08-02-2005, 03:58 AM
Didnt work to well for me as a trans-D. I ended up injecting it for the greater part of my brief cycle. Been considering trying again without wasting any on the trans-D. Not sure what to have him mix it in for injections. (if raw the doses would be fractions of a unit and almost impossible to dose). The BA did the job as an injectable, but I wonder if some of the site soreness could have been reduced by using something else. I have no idea if it can mix in BW or not.
08-02-2005, 10:20 AM
I think this molecule is pretty fragile, if one RUBS the stuff, does the molecule survive?
IGF-1 degrades in BW, but it's OK to mix it with BW in the syringe just prior to injecting. I would IMAGINE the same thing to be true with PGF-2. I mean, if it will immediately go to waste the moment it touches some water, what will happen once in the body? POOF? I'd say go for it...
08-02-2005, 01:38 PM
It's very stable even at room temperature... Actually when I asked about it myself, before ordering, he specifically told me not to keep it in a fridge. I've only taken one test poke to my right bicep so far, and did not find it painful at all.. but then again it was just 1mg. I did get queasy though, and my stomach started doing some funky shiet, but I never did end up needing to visit the toilet.. although, I imagine a stronger dose would of changed that quite easily.
08-21-2005, 09:48 AM
SO hows that PGF2a cycle working out for you? Its been almost 3 weeks so I thought Id see what the 411 was w/ you.Originally Posted by Poobah
08-21-2005, 09:56 AM
Well it was an experiment... I took a few shots to my biceps... no injection pain what so ever... Which after all the reading I've done, was quite surprising... makes me wonder of TLR's PGF is legit. It made me fairly sick though, but didn't send me running for the bathroom, just made my stomach turn over quite a bit.
I dropped the pgf from my cycle though.. I have to much other stuff going on, and I didn't like dealing with the upset stomach.. Not that it was that bad, it's just I'm doing plenty enough as it is.. hgh/igf/tren/test.
08-22-2005, 02:44 PM
Since this seems to be a lot better than igf-1 and cheaper I am also vvery interested in it. My question is, is this a legal supp to buy like igf-1 is? If so, does a sponser carry it on this board (I doubt it).
08-22-2005, 02:58 PM
It's not a supplement but a "research chemical" I don't know about it being BETTER than IGF-1. You're supposed to pin a few times a day, which means you're sick ALL THE TIME. How you gonna eat?
I think the only way this is good is transdermal. Very good that way but all it does is fat loss. Localized adipocyte apoptosis is very useful IMO.
08-22-2005, 03:34 PM
I'm thinking I'm going to ... investigate ... TL's PGF2a. Unless there is a less expensive and/or more reliable research chem site which sells it.
08-22-2005, 03:35 PM
08-22-2005, 11:12 PM
Jeez why would anyone ever buy TL's stuff then?!
TL charges like 5 times what you can easily get it for!
08-23-2005, 06:35 PM
08-23-2005, 07:05 PM
hey null, if you do end up using this, post a good log. Im interested in this, but am wondering if it is needed to do multiple day injections. I havent fully researched this so I am not sure.
08-23-2005, 11:06 PM
Hmm, not as easy as I thought. All the vet places seem to ask for prescription info to be faxed to them.Originally Posted by ss01
08-24-2005, 12:01 AM
08-24-2005, 04:20 AM
08-26-2005, 07:56 AM
Im not familiar with TD. Or at least if I am then Im not snapping as to what the acronym refers to.
Im looking into getting 2 or 3 more vials of TL's pgf2a as well as some humalog. It will be my first experience with slin. Im thinking of using the slin for just the last week of my AAS cycle and then continue during PCT whilst adding the pgf2a along with my other regular pct ancillaries.(HCG, nolva, rebound XT, and either LR3 IGF1 or P-GH.) Ive read a few pgf reports that support the idea of a synergystic effect of slin and pgf2 similar to the synergy of AAS and slin. (only via increased androgen receptor number and sensitivety but without the increase in circulating androgens). Im hoping this will help me to possibly add some muscle during PCT instead of loosing it. My AAS cyle has been a cutting cycle, and though I still havent reached my fatloss goals, I feel that Ive been on for a while and would be prudent to cycle off. Im hoping that the adipocyte killing effect of the PGF will off set any possible fat gains from the slin. I will drop my beta 2 agonists, (toggling between Albuterol, clen, and ephedrine) being that they are known to lower insulin sensitivity. As is T3 wich I have also been taking, and havent decided if its worth taking during this pct protocol, being that it lowers insulin sensitivity. My goal still being to maintain and or build lean mass while cutting. Im currently doing a cylical ketogenic diet, but that will have to change most likely to accomodate daily slin injections.
08-26-2005, 09:26 AM
I think that by TD he means transdermal. I do believe that the adipocyte-killing effect is only achieved through transdermal application.
08-30-2005, 12:42 AM
Well TL just informed me that the insulin lispro (humalog) is discontinued, so unless some one knows somewhere else to get it for my research then I will have to settle for humulin-R through one of those diabetes websites. (I think they require a script for humalog but not humulin-r.) But the PGF-2a seems good to go. I just need to get my money order.
I believe the adipocyte killing effects do occur with injection, as the triglicerydes are part of the fueling mechanism. However I dont know if the effect is site specific, Im afraid it is, wich is a problem if you want to get rid of naval fat, as the the intestinal cramping would be intense. So if thats the case it would only be helpful if you want to get rid of fat around your arms or shoulders or wherever.
10-27-2005, 06:07 PM
Does anyone have any info on this? I couldn't find much. And why only as a transdermal?Originally Posted by ss01
10-31-2005, 06:27 PM
10-31-2005, 06:58 PM
And sticking the bottle up your ass makes you grow wings.
Show me studies that say it actually causes apoptisis of adipocytes. Where did this info stem from... someone make it up or is there truth.
10-31-2005, 07:12 PM
Stick this up you ass!Originally Posted by JonesersRX7
All joking aside...Here is some more info...once again just passing it along.
Prostaglandin F2alpha is a potent inhibitor of adipocyte precursor differentiation and a physiological negative modulator of adipocyte function (ie triglyceride accumulation) through stimulation of transforming growth factor-alpha mRNA expression. It initiates a cascade of effects in the adipoctes which have physiological importance to reducing the size and it appears number of mature cells,long after PGf-2a is cleared from the system
Mature adipose cells only shrink in size in response to restricted caloric intake or increased metabolic demand. Before now the only method of reducing the number of fat cells was liposuction. It now appears that Pgf-2a applied topically can have the same same effecst as diet and liposuction. Pgf-2a can reduce the size of mature adipocytes and the number of mature adipocytes through negative modulation and reversing the process of differentiation
There are no studies on topical application. DMSO does carry PGF-2a through the dermal layers and the low concentration spread over a large area is ideal for the intended purpose. One cannot spread PGf-2a (or anyother substance) over the surface area that one can with DMSO topical application. The idea being that you need to interact as many molecules of PGF-2a with as many mature fat cells as possible. The biggest asset to DMSO as a carrier is the ability to spread the PGF-2a applicatiion over a large surface area, thereby maximising the interactuion of the number PGF-2a molucules with the maximum number of fat cells. This is where the DMOS method really shines. QFS is not masking the smell of the DMSO. It is not that bad and goes away in about 5 minutes.
It is important to remember that dinoprost tromethamine does not burn the released fatty acids, aerobic exercise and or T3 will take care of that. PGF-2a only changes the way fats are stored and the formation and function of adipose tissue. As well I find that about half of the time I feel a tickle in the back of my throat and sometimes I have a full out coughing fit. This says to me that I have applied a good dosage.
Here are some studies that support PGF-2a and negative modulation of adipose tissue.
Endocrinology 1995 Aug;136(8):3222-9
Prostaglandin F2 alpha stimulates transforming growth factor-alpha expression in adipocyte precursors.
Lepak NM, Serrero G.
W. Alton Jones Cell Science Center, Inc., Lake Placid, New York 12946, USA.
Transforming growth factor-alpha (TGF alpha) and prostaglandin F2 alpha (PGF2 alpha) are potent inhibitors of adipocyte differentiation. We demonstrate here that TGF alpha messenger RNA (mRNA) is expressed in freshly isolated fat pads and in primary culture of adipocyte precursors cultivated in defined medium before and after differentiation. We show that PGF2 alpha stimulated TGF alpha mRNA expression in a dose-dependent manner. PGF2 alpha also stimulated TGF alpha production in the culture medium of adipocyte precursors in primary culture. PGF2 alpha stimulated TGF alpha mRNA expression in both undifferentiated and differentiated cells. 9 alpha,11 beta-PGF2 alpha, which also inhibited adipose differentiation, stimulated TGF alpha mRNA expression similarly to PGF2 alpha, whereas other PGs had no effect on TGF alpha mRNA expression. The time-course experiment indicates that the stimulation of TGF alpha mRNA expression by PGF2 alpha is observed within 6 h of exposure to PGF2 alpha and is inhibited by treatment of the cells with actinomycin D. The effect of PGF2 alpha on TGF alpha expression did not require activation of protein kinase C and was fully reversible. As both TGF alpha and PGF2 alpha are inhibitors of adipose differentiation, it is suggested that stimulation of TGF alpha expression by PGF2 alpha could represent an amplification mechanism to modulate adipocyte precursor differentiation and adipocyte function within the adipose tissue.
Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1996 Mar;20 Suppl 3:S58-64 R
Endocrine and paracrine negative regulators of adipose differentiation.
Serrero G, Lepak N.
W Alton Jones Cell Science Center, Inc, Lake Placid, NY 12946, USA.
Obesity which is characterized by an abnormal adipose tissue development is a first degree public health hazard in industrialized countries. One important aspect in the study of adipose tissue development is to investigate the hormonal control of proliferation and differentiation. Any qualitative or quantitative change in these hormones or their receptors can result in abnormalities in the process of proliferation and/or differentiation possibly leading to obesity. Therefore, it is important to identify these factors and investigate their mechanism of action. We have concentrated our efforts in the study of factors triggering differentiation (positive regulators) and also of factors inhibiting differentiation (negative regulators). The present paper provides evidence of the importance of EGF/TGF-alpha and of PGF2 alpha as differentiation inhibitors for adipocyte precursors in primary culture. Data presented here also demonstrate that TGF-alpha is expressed in adipose tissue and that its expression is specifically stimulated by PGF2 alpha, thus suggesting the existence of an amplification mechanism between two differentiation inhibitors within the adipose tissue. The importance of these two types of differentiation inhibitors in the regulation of adipose tissue development is discussed.
10-31-2005, 07:48 PM
Hey thanks man!
Wonder why it's just transdermally tho. I would rather pin subq then have to worry about rubbing up against my girlfriend or daughter. Scares the **** out of me thinking about that.
10-31-2005, 07:58 PM
Im with you on that one.
But I guess with the DMSO is that you
can cover a larger area than with a site injection.
"The idea being that you need to interact as many molecules of PGF-2a with as many mature fat cells as possible. The biggest asset to DMSO as a carrier is the ability to spread the PGF-2a applicatiion over a large surface area, thereby maximising the interactuion of the number PGF-2a molucules with the maximum number of fat cells. This is where the DMOS method really shines"...
10-31-2005, 08:24 PM
10-31-2005, 08:53 PM
10-31-2005, 10:43 PM
So DMSO is the best carrier for PGF2a?
Thats all i have ever seen people use, but i wonder if there could be a better option...
11-01-2005, 10:01 AM
Well, nothing that I'm aware of is more effective than DMSO. However from what the data suggests, you wouldn't even need a carrier for PGF2a. Reason being it absorbs through the skin very easily and rapidly all by itself. The Lutalyse drug label explicitly states that you shouldn't under any circumstances let any touch your skin due to absorbtion. IIRC it doesn't even say "chance" of absorbtion; meaning that if it touches your skin it is a certainty that at least some will be immediately absorbed.Originally Posted by italionstallion
11-02-2005, 01:29 PM
So do you just draw with a pin and then squirt on area? What would be the difference between pinning it SubQ and spraying it on say the love handles... For the cost of this stuff, I want the most bang for my buck.
11-02-2005, 06:37 PM
Shoot it directly into fat. I read someone once claim to have carved out a sixpack with this method in a very short amount of time. I'm also guessing that life sucked for them while they were doing it.
11-03-2005, 11:16 AM
i would much rather pin subq than rub all the time, especially with that dmso smell. has anyone tried this method? and if so, how would you rate it? i'd love to find something that can get rid of my lovehandles and make it easier to keep them gone.
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