Insulin.. Heavier usage?

[Poobah]

First off, I want to make it clear that I'm not planning on doing anything out of normal protocal for a really long time.. I'm just putting this question out there, for future consideration and planning. I may not do anything like this at all. Just thinking of the possibities... and curious as to what some of you have done, will do, or would like to do.

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I normally use Humalog postworkout only, and don't believe it's nessecary to cycle it used in that manner. But someday in the distant future when I'm cut down, and am ready to bulk... I'd like to use Insulin more effectively to accumlate Solid LBM.

I was thinking, Of potentially arranging my diet so that it was very low in fat for the first half of the day... meals 1-(3 or 4) (6-8meal day) and using a few doses of Humilin R (10-15iu per shot) or a dose of Humalog (10iu per shot) with every meal.... followed up later in the evening with a dose of humalog (10iu) post workout. For a maximum of 50iu per day.

I'd also definately be running aas, as well as either IGF, or HGH, at the same time To help capitalize the synergistic effects of everything. (I'm thinking IGF run with slin in this fashion would be amazing specially combined with some tren/test :twisted: )

I also think, that using this much Insulin, it definately becomes nessecary to cycle it.. either 1 week on 1 week off.. or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off through the entire duration of the AAS cycle. (IGF cycles with slin)

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So let's hear it.

What do you think?
How much slin do you use per day?
What have you tried?
What do you have plans to do?
What do you suggust?

Very curious.

 

[lifted]

I have no useful insight as I've never used slin before...but what have your results been using it PWO?

 

[Poobah]

I have no useful insight as I've never used slin before...but what have your results been using it PWO?

Hard to say... I've used it pwo quite awhile now.. and i firmly believe it helps muscle recovery via cortisol reduction, and just generally stuffing protein and carbs where you want them. I'm also sure it's helped me continue to gain lbm, while on an extended cut. And if your slin meal is extremely low in fat, it don't think it hurts fat loss at all. Although the extents of the benefits are hard to quantify.

I've also used humalog twice a day during a AAS/iGF cycle, once with a lean breakfast full of egg whites and oats and again post workout.... During the SLin/IGF portion.. I felt like I was bursting at times... And I suffered from alot of odd muscle cramping, and twitching, The strangest muscles would cramp up and twict.. muscles I never new existed, but the cramping was not painful.. it was strange... plus I felt like I was sore all over most of the time... (It definately felt like I was growing). During that cycle I put on nearly 50 pounds... although post cycle (including pct) I dropped 20 pounds inside of 2 weeks of water weight, and I would estimate that 10 pounds was fat, and I have kept around 20 pounds. ( I hold water like a sponge it appears).

Anyway.. Once I read a cycle of 2 guys (fairly big guys).. both were going on fairly complex cycles of tren/test for the most part, hgh, and if my memory serves me, 60iu of humalog ED. at the time, the board on which it was mentioned was like holy **** that's alot of slin.. but all this time, I've been thinking is it really? Under the right circumstances and right diet? Is it really to much?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Anyway.. Once I read a cycle of 2 guys (fairly big guys).. both were going on fairly complex cycles of tren/test for the most part, hgh, and if my memory serves me, 60iu of humalog ED. at the time, the board on which it was mentioned was like holy **** that's alot of slin.. but all this time, I've been thinking is it really? Under the right circumstances and right diet? Is it really to much?

Without really going into details about why your other points are wrong, 60iu/day is by far the most insane and completely ridiculous things I have heard in a very long time.

 

[lifted]

Thx for the feedbacl poobah. From all that I've read, most guys say that slin isn't all that it's cracked out to be, but then I end up reading a few others' that say it's the best thing since sliced bread....lol, and then it starts to appeal to me again...

Bobo, have you ever used/considered using slin before?

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

Yeah, I do not agree with it at all....... If you want to gain weight eat a lot of carbs PWO with log.....
Its not going to force nutriants enough to make it worth while..... and that R + log will SCREW your blood glucose all up......

so simply put.... no

 

[Poobah]

Without really going into details about why your other points are wrong, 60iu/day is by far the most insane and completely ridiculous things I have heard in a very long time.

Well any input your do have is always useful... I think, that for various reasons, we (boards in general), really don't have a clue what people are really doing with slin out there.. mostly due to the dangers that are assciated with it. How much slin do the real pro's use? and do you think they would actually tell us? I'm just really curious. (and yes I know I'm not a real pro..)

But Like you say.. I'm a serious endo, and perhaps going on a cycle like that would blow me up like the freaking marshmellow man.

But I always thought, if all the meals are planned out carefully, and consist primarily of Protein, and carbs, with 5% or less fat calories.. the impact on your waist line would be negligible, while the effect on muscle growth would be quite satisfactory.

So.. 60iu might be insane.. but i have a funny feeling it isn't insane at all to some professional types out there..

and again, I'm curious to all hell to hear more user feed back. What is everyone up to?

 

[Poobah]

Yeah, I do not agree with it at all....... If you want to gain weight eat a lot of carbs PWO with log.....
Its not going to force nutriants enough to make it worth while..... and that R + log will SCREW your blood glucose all up......

so simply put.... no

thanks...

originally that was sort of my thinking, during the aas/igf/slin cycle I chose to use slin with my breakfast first thing in the morning and post workout only.... would you agree they are the only meals worth using it for.. since in both cases the body craves nutrients?

I suppose, I just wonder.... what if...

lol.. the what if is you'd probably get real fat huh?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Well any input your do have is always useful... I think, that for various reasons, we (boards in general), really don't have a clue what people are really doing with slin out there.. mostly due to the dangers that are assciated with it. How much slin do the real pro's use? and do you think they would actually tell us? I'm just really curious. (and yes I know I'm not a real pro..)

But Like you say.. I'm a serious endo, and perhaps going on a cycle like that would blow me up like the freaking marshmellow man.

But I always thought, if all the meals are planned out carefully, and consist primarily of Protein, and carbs, with 5% or less fat calories.. the impact on your waist line would be negligible, while the effect on muscle growth would be quite satisfactory.

So.. 60iu might be insane.. but i have a funny feeling it isn't insane at all to some professional types out there..

and again, I'm curious to all hell to hear more user feed back. What is everyone up to?

Actually it is quite insane for anyone to use that amount especially since you aren't a type I diabetic. Simply put (and please don't take this the wrong way) but you simply don't have a clue what you are talking about. Insulin is not tissue specific. It pushes nutrients into ALL cells. GLUT4 permeability is increased in both muscle and fat cells. You hear people getting fat off of 60-100g of dextrose after a workout so guess what you are doing? MUCH worse. Pro's do not use 60iu's. Stop readin the damn message boards and taking what people say as law. Quite frankly, 90% don't have a fuckin clue what they are talking about especially someone recommending 60iu's of humalog per day. Thats as bad as people sayin Jay Cutler drinks Coke after a workout. It just complete fiction and pure bullshit.

I know pro's that have used it and the largest of large that I know (260+) doens't go over 15iu's per day (and he has MUCH more muscle than anyone on this board will ever come close too) ....and he gets fat as hell in the offseason. Your body only needs a certain amount of insulin to get the job done. More is not better and only forces you to consume extra calories in the form of glucose to prevent you from going hypo. Your muscle only hold a certain amount before spillage into adipose occurs.

60iu's per day.....Unbelievable.

 

[Poobah]

Actually it is quite insane for anyone to use that amount especially since you aren't a type I diabetic. Simply put (and please don't take this the wrong way) but you simply don't have a clue what you are talking about. Insulin is not tissue specific. It pushes nutrients into ALL cells. GLUT4 permeability is increased in both muscle and fat cells. You hear people getting fat off of 60-100g of dextrose after a workout so guess what you are doing? MUCH worse. Pro's do not use 60iu's. Stop readin the damn message boards and taking what people say as law. Quite frankly, 90% don't have a fuckin clue what they are talking about especially someone recommending 60iu's of humalog per day. Thats as bad as people sayin Jay Cutler drinks Coke after a workout. It just complete fiction and pure bullshit.

I know pro's that have used it and the largest of large that I know (260+) doens't go over 15iu's per day (and he has MUCH more muscle than anyone on this board will ever come close too) ....and he gets fat as hell in the offseason. Your body only needs a certain amount of insulin to get the job done. More is not better and only forces you to consume extra calories in the form of glucose to prevent you from going hypo. Your muscle only hold a certain amount before spillage into adipose occurs.

60iu's per day.....Unbelievable.

Good... this is the kind of stuff we need to hear more of.

I don't believe everything I hear.. honest. I ask questions to learn..

You've set me straight.. or your damn well working on it. (I'm a fairly crooked guy)

thanks bobo.

 

[BOHICA]

originally that was sort of my thinking, during the aas/igf/slin cycle I chose to use slin with my breakfast first thing in the morning and post workout only.... would you agree they are the only meals worth using it for.. since in both cases the body craves nutrients?

You have been working out for how long and already doing aas/igf/slin cycles? That's crazy, hard work and true results you can appreciate isn't gonna come from a bottle or pin.

Thats as bad as people sayin Jay Cutler drinks Coke after a workout. It just complete fiction and pure bullshit.

Your right, he drinks Dr. Pepper Duh!!

 

[Poobah]

You have been working out for how long and already doing aas/igf/slin cycles? That's crazy, hard work and true results you can appreciate isn't gonna come from a bottle or pin.

I'm working on it.. I'm working on it..

And damn if I'm not figuring it out.. although I must admit, I have a ways to go... (thinking of rxt and activate, but it's a damn site better then tren and test).

 

[Nitrox]

From a diabetic's perspective, I would think that the results that a non-diabetic would get from exo insulin usage could be highly variable because of how endo insulin factors into the picture. You factor X exo insulin for Y carbs but if timings are off and endo insulin response is triggered then you will need to consume more carbs to avoid hypoglycemia.

I would think that building the diet comes first, then figure out how much insulin to use for it, not the other way around.

Get a glucose meter if you want to use it more effectively. Determine your fasting baseline and your own response to your meals. Then measure your reponse with X slin and modify if necessary. Be prepared to spend $$ on the test strips they get expensive if you don't have coverage.

FWIW I need about 12iu's for 200g of carbs on a 2700 Cals diet and 5iu's for the same 200g when cutting at 2000 Cals.

60iu's does sound silly but I guess if your diet has 600-800g of carbs you could make it work. Just dont miss a meal.

 

[CROWLER]

thanks...

originally that was sort of my thinking, during the aas/igf/slin cycle I chose to use slin with my breakfast first thing in the morning and post workout only.... would you agree they are the only meals worth using it for.. since in both cases the body craves nutrients?

I suppose, I just wonder.... what if...

lol.. the what if is you'd probably get real fat huh?

I agree after breakfast on workout days then again after the workout.

Then on the days you don't work out do NOT use the insulin use Glucophage. Again do NOT use them together.


CROWLER

 

[bigj]

weird.....
I don't know pro's, but I know huge guys that use 60ius a day or more. I'm not saying I think this is good practice, but they are indeed larger than I am.
I've got my ideas on this, but I'm more about safety than gaining 50lbs of muscle, so i won't go into it.

 

[noctorum]

If your looking for a radical approach to insulin use Poobah, DNP and Insulin seem to have a synergistic effect. Check out the Insulin/Bug Spray section of BTPB.

Edit:

Another factor that fascinated me about DNP was its ability to prevent fat gain during insulin use. It did so by screwing up the shape of the insulin molecule. This also meant it was far more difficult to go hypoglycemic when DNP and insulin were stacked. Obviously DNP use increased the PTOR which then allowed for increased calorie counts and therefore increased nutrient availability at the cell

 

[ss01]

Insulin in small amounts does help. Huge amounts? They would be useless. Just like there is a limit to how much of ANYTHING your body can use, so it is with slin.

BTW : slin STOPS lipolysis for a number of hours. For someone who is overweight, it is possibly the worst supplement you would take.

 

[bigj]

Gotta think outside the box, biochemically...
yeah, if you're overweight (fat) it's bad bad bad...

 

[ss01]

OK then replace "useless" in my above statement to "not worth the risk for 99.99% of athletes" and my sentence is all good, right?

 

[bigj]

ss01.....
I agree with that 100%, I personally don't have much use for insulin, I don't care for it that much. It can produce some amazing results with muscle mass increase, but it sure does make you fatter as well (if you're not VERY careful). There's better ways out there for me, personally. I wasn't trying to say you were wrong either, necessarily....the 99.99% thing is correct, I believe!