IGF-1 on cycle or PCT?

[malachi]

Hello everyone,

Before I start, first allow me to thank everyone in this forum for all of your contributions. While this is my first post, I've read the threads here for quite awhile, and you've all helped me a great deal to further my education about the use of anabolics, so allow me to extend my gratitude to you all.

I'm very experienced with gear (I've pretty much taken it all over the last 10 years with the exception of D-bol and Anadrol), but I'm completely new to peptides. My question is this. Is it better to run IGF-1 (I'll be using a combination of LR3 and DES) on cycle or as PCT? I've searched the forums (as well as the Internet as a whole) for a conclusive answer to this question, but I find conflicting opinions. I've read that while on cycle, the gear (particularly test, which is the foundation of all my cycles) raises your natural production of IGF-1 anyway, so it's kind of a waste to take IGF-1 on cycle. However, I've also read that IGF-1 can cause a great deal of hypoglycemia and drowsiness if not eating sufficient carbs. Since I eat more while on cycle and lower my calories off cycle to avoid too much fat accumulation, would it be better to use IGF-1 on cycle to avoid hypoglycemia? Finally, some say to take IGF-1 on cycle because it works synergistically with gear for greater results, while others say to take it between cycles to build new muscle cells that can then be enlarged while on cycle.

As you can see, I'm confused. LOL Your thoughts on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

My stats:
35 years old
Lifting for 21 years
On and off gear for 10 years (Cypionate, Enanthate, Aratest, Sustanon, Neotest, Tren, Finaplex, Deca, Equipoise, Winstrol, Anavar)
5' 10"
220 - 250 pounds (depending on whether I'm bulking or cutting)
Bodyfat is around 10%

Thanks!

 

[Eric160]

ive been wondering the exact same thing for the exact same reasons for the logest time so im in for the awnser. i was thinking of using it off cycle because of the new cell growth and just make sure to eat enough carbs but i really dont know

 

[malachi]

Hmmm. I guess everyone is stumped on this issue. It's totally understandable, as there is a great deal of conflicting information on the Internet, and for most of us, peptides are entirely new territory, so I'm not surprised to see a lack of replies here.

OK, I'm sure many of you have enough experience with IGF-1 LR3 and DES to at least address my main concern with their use. How bad is the hypoglycemia when eating a diet centered more on cutting fat (low carbs, low fat, high protein)? Hypoglycemia is my main concern, as with my line of work and familial responsibilities, I can't afford to be drowsy and nodding off every few minutes. LOL My primary focus on using these peptides is fat loss and body recomposition, as at 35 years of age, the fat isn't coming off quite as fast as it did in my 20's. LOL. I'm content with my mass, as I get up to 250 pounds when bulking (at 5' 10") and feel like absolute crap when I'm that size (no stamina, no speed, no agility, etc.), so I really don't want to get any bigger. Therefore, I'd like to incorporate these peptides into my cutting phase, but as stated, if the hypoglycemia is drastic while on a low carb diet, that would present a very difficult situation for me.

If any of you could give me a greater insight into the hypoglycemic effects of LR3 and DES while on a low carb/low calorie diet, I would be most appreciative.

Thanks!

 

[Jahcuree]

Hmmm. I guess everyone is stumped on this issue. It's totally understandable, as there is a great deal of conflicting information on the Internet, and for most of us, peptides are entirely new territory, so I'm not surprised to see a lack of replies here.

OK, I'm sure many of you have enough experience with IGF-1 LR3 and DES to at least address my main concern with their use. How bad is the hypoglycemia when eating a diet centered more on cutting fat (low carbs, low fat, high protein)? Hypoglycemia is my main concern, as with my line of work and familial responsibilities, I can't afford to be drowsy and nodding off every few minutes. LOL My primary focus on using these peptides is fat loss and body recomposition, as at 35 years of age, the fat isn't coming off quite as fast as it did in my 20's. LOL. I'm content with my mass, as I get up to 250 pounds when bulking (at 5' 10") and feel like absolute crap when I'm that size (no stamina, no speed, no agility, etc.), so I really don't want to get any bigger. Therefore, I'd like to incorporate these peptides into my cutting phase, but as stated, if the hypoglycemia is drastic while on a low carb diet, that would present a very difficult situation for me.

If any of you could give me a greater insight into the hypoglycemic effects of LR3 and DES while on a low carb/low calorie diet, I would be most appreciative.

Thanks!

Honestly man, IMO both igf's suck and don't do what your looking for. As far as the hypo scare, just start with very low doses to asses your tolerance and move up slowly so there isn't a issue.

If it were me, and I was looking for fat loss(in addition to longevity benefits) I would incorporate GRF 1-29 and Ipamorellin or GHRP-2. Dose both upon waking and fast for a few hours afterwards. Then I would dose again before bed.

 

[pitbullfit]

Honestly man, IMO both igf's suck and don't do what your looking for. As far as the hypo scare, just start with very low doses to asses your tolerance and move up slowly so there isn't a issue.

If it were me, and I was looking for fat loss(in addition to longevity benefits) I would incorporate GRF 1-29 and Ipamorellin or GHRP-2. Dose both upon waking and fast for a few hours afterwards. Then I would dose again before bed.

Totally NOT true. I run IGF on keto diet and am trained amd advised by IFBB pro.

In fact, running the igf at night before bed (given it is LR3) i promise your workout the next day will give you the most ridiculous pump uve had.

I dont do site specific as your body will pull it where needed. Always in shoulder at night with serving of bcaa amd glutamine before bed.

I have 5yrs experience hands on with peptides and get protocol from ppl who have used over 15-20yrs

Fat loss? Why wudnt u suggest hgh frag??? Or clen and t3??

Wheres the pics Jahcuree?

Maybe u think igf sux cuz u think its magic amd dont understand how it works?

It splts cells, meaning the new cells are infant amd need to mature. How long did it take u to add any muscle u have? Now how long ubthink it takes to grow and mature infant muscle cells? Its known that u cam expect your gaims to start becoming noticeable upto a year after igf use.

 

[Jahcuree]

Totally NOT true. I run IGF on keto diet and am trained amd advised by IFBB pro.

In fact, running the igf at night before bed (given it is LR3) i promise your workout the next day will give you the most ridiculous pump uve had.

I dont do site specific as your body will pull it where needed. Always in shoulder at night with serving of bcaa amd glutamine before bed.

I have 5yrs experience hands on with peptides and get protocol from ppl who have used over 15-20yrs

Fat loss? Why wudnt u suggest hgh frag??? Or clen and t3??

Wheres the pics Jahcuree?

Maybe u think igf sux cuz u think its magic amd dont understand how it works?

It splts cells, meaning the new cells are infant amd need to mature. How long did it take u to add any muscle u have? Now how long ubthink it takes to grow and mature infant muscle cells? Its known that u cam expect your gaims to start becoming noticeable upto a year after igf use.

Hey bro, first off, welcome to the boards. Second, where did I say **** about you personally? Don't come in here attacking others like you run the place because you pay Phil hernon to tell your what to put in your body.

Based on MY OPINION, I gave MY RECOMMENDATION. Lr3 didn't do anything for me whatsoever and I guarantee I used higher quality than you are using. Also if you knew anything about a 'pump' you would realize that an extra cellular fluid pump does absolutely nothing positive.

And yes, it is a proven fact that what I recommended works great for fat loss, I have no experience with frag so I'm not going to recommend it. Same with the other non-peptide substances your talking about.

 

[pitbullfit]

Hey bro, first off, welcome to the boards. Second, where did I say **** about you personally? Don't come in here attacking others like you run the place because you pay Phil hernon to tell your what to put in your body.

Based on MY OPINION, I gave MY RECOMMENDATION. Lr3 didn't do anything for me whatsoever and I guarantee I used higher quality than you are using. Also if you knew anything about a 'pump' you would realize that an extra cellular fluid pump does absolutely nothing positive.

And yes, it is a proven fact that what I recommended works great for fat loss, I have no experience with frag so I'm not going to recommend it. Same with the other non-peptide substances your talking about.

Actually i work with IFBB so no need for ya to try dick measuring here with your qaulity crack. I bet you got my from a source who got ot from a source who got it from my manufacturer.

Who said anythimg about extra cellular pump? In fact that is what u get using PW protocol, not what i mentioned. Talk like i own the place? Pot callin the kettle black here? Stats? Pics? Credibility? I think a 20+ yr combined experience on protocol may dwarf your basement workout cycles bro. I didnt attack you. I questioned you. Big diff. Defensiveness led you to attempting an attack on me. Just cuz i dont have 5000 posts sayin "ya sounds good bro" doesntean **** on my rep.

If you know anything about the boards or have been around long enough you may remember SSB, or not, since it was exclusive invite only.

I have a strong rep and you never know who youre talkin to. Sure post your opinion. I posted my protocols based on more than a forum blog, and offer this info so people can do things right based on more than sifting thru threads of regurgitated bs ppl post to get their numbers up. So, unless you have some pro status, or 20yrs behind u and are a guru, youre in no position to "attack" me so to speak let alone try putting me in my so called place

 

[Jahcuree]

Actually i work with IFBB so no need for ya to try dick measuring here with your qaulity crack. I bet you got my from a source who got ot from a source who got it from my manufacturer.

Who said anythimg about extra cellular pump? In fact that is what u get using PW protocol, not what i mentioned. Talk like i own the place? Pot callin the kettle black here? Stats? Pics? Credibility? I think a 20+ yr combined experience on protocol may dwarf your basement workout cycles bro. I didnt attack you. I questioned you. Big diff. Defensiveness led you to attempting an attack on me. Just cuz i dont have 5000 posts sayin "ya sounds good bro" doesntean **** on my rep.

If you know anything about the boards or have been around long enough you may remember SSB, or not, since it was exclusive invite only.

I have a strong rep and you never know who youre talkin to. Sure post your opinion. I posted my protocols based on more than a forum blog, and offer this info so people can do things right based on more than sifting thru threads of regurgitated bs ppl post to get their numbers up. So, unless you have some pro status, or 20yrs behind u and are a guru, youre in no position to "attack" me so to speak let alone try putting me in my so called place

I havent attacked anything big guy. I only defended my position which i have already stated i have come to the conclusion by MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES. Not reading any 'logs' or 'threads' like you claim my knowledge is from.

"Wheres the pics Jahcuree?"
I dont know why your so concerned with my stats and pictures. I didnt know that was what qualified peoples experience over the internet.

Your right, i dont have a pro status or 20+ years experience being a guru. But i also have never spent time trying to become pro or use the amount of substances it takes for one to become one. I am only 25 years old and i do have a BA in Kinesiology, and am CSCS and CFS certified and have been training athletes for 7+ years already. My knowledge on peptides is fresh and new as i have only been researching them for about 9 months now. So my knowledge there is limited, which is why recommended what i did. If my original recommendations are wrong in any way, please correct them.

 

[evodrag]

Im gonna run 50mcg post wo right before I blast with some test and an oral during a bulk.

 

[malachi]

In fact, running the igf at night before bed (given it is LR3) i promise your workout the next day will give you the most ridiculous pump uve had.

Thanks for the info. This is the first time I've heard it recommended to inject IGF-1 before bed. What's the reasoning behind this? How exactly is this superior to post workout? I've always read that your body is in greatest need of IGF-1 post workout, and therefore, the IGF-1 will be used more effectively if administered immediately after your workout. Also, I've read that injecting post workout reduces the chance of growth gut, as the muscles will utilize more of the IGF-1, thereby leaving less IGF-1 to circulate in the body until it reaches the receptors in the intestines. I'd love to hear your feedback on this, as I am completely brand new to IGF-1 (or any peptide for that matter) and about to start my first cycle soon.

Thanks!

 

[pitbullfit]

Thanks for the info. This is the first time I've heard it recommended to inject IGF-1 before bed. What's the reasoning behind this? How exactly is this superior to post workout? I've always read that your body is in greatest need of IGF-1 post workout, and therefore, the IGF-1 will be used more effectively if administered immediately after your workout. Also, I've read that injecting post workout reduces the chance of growth gut, as the muscles will utilize more of the IGF-1, thereby leaving less IGF-1 to circulate in the body until it reaches the receptors in the intestines. I'd love to hear your feedback on this, as I am completely brand new to IGF-1 (or any peptide for that matter) and about to start my first cycle soon.

Thanks!

Why at night? I asked that as well. Your body utilizes everything and anything it has in it at night for recovery and growth, as you lay dormant in deep sleep.

As stated and documented, your growth hormone is released heaviest in your state of deep sleep. Igf and gh (whether natural or synthetic) work synergistically together.

I have used igf for 4yrs cycling an have one of the smallest waists on stage next to my heavy weight competitors. Your body is in need of replenishment after your workout, not necessarily drugs or peps.

Eat. Your body utilizes the food to stop catabolism and keep anabolic. The igf theory of post, or pre if using LR3 is exactly that. Theory.

Test results in research on this peptides reaction amd absorption in the body show that your body will utilize it where needed when it needs it.

Since you did, say, a screaming back workout today, an igf shot in the shoulder will automatically shuttle most if not all peptide to the area that was smashed. Why? Becuase it needs to not only recover, but grow to survive the next beating. IGF is used to grow. Bring up lagging parts etc. how would this focus work? Well, faster recovery means shorter time frames between workout one and when you hit that workout safely again. It is a well know practice to train lagging parts twice a week, and numerous protocols can be used to do this. That being said, pinning your IGF will result in more focus on that area due to the twice a week where other areas only demand recovery assistance the regular once every 6-7 days (depending on your split)
Another thin to keep in mind is that all these peptides and GH alike are proteins and chains that also utilize the non drug/steroidal/peptide supplements to grow as foundration such as glutamine and bcaa products high in leucine, iso leucine, and HICA. All these products taken at night basically put your body in the most optimal position to use tem efficiently in growth and recovery while in your state of rest peiod sleeping.

 

[pitbullfit]

Growth gut has been associated to absorption through pinning igf subQ instead of IM.

Since ur injecting into the area closest to it being made and it floats rather than be absorbed in your muscle and distributed through your body, it gets absorbed through your stomach which can lead to your concern.

The gut also comes from HEAVY and prolonged GH usage. Since this protocol would be extremely expensive, it is safe to assume that most of us could not run a sufficient amount long enough to see this. Pros have noted taking 16-25iu per day, these are also the ones supporting the blocky waist turtle shell look. Alot of them get stuff handed to them so they can "rep" so to speak, their product through verbal support. Most dont have to pay for anything which leads to over use as the supply is endless and never affected by budgets

 

[malachi]

Thanks pitbull. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

 

[malachi]

One more thing. I'm assuming you feel LR3 is best before bed due to the long half-life, correct? If so, would DES or MGF possibly be a good option immediately post workout for a potential site enhancement, and if so, which do you think is better?

Thanks again!

 

[pitbullfit]

One more thing. I'm assuming you feel LR3 is best before bed due to the long half-life, correct? If so, would DES or MGF possibly be a good option immediately post workout for a potential site enhancement, and if so, which do you think is better?

Thanks again!

Long half life is correct. I myself, also based on the application we seek and by my experience, find only the LR3 to be worth while hence the cost difference.

I have used the short igf pre work out followed by mgf post. I am a big beleiver in peptides.

If you wanted to incorp mgf there are 3 ways.

1.) Mgf immediately post workout
LR3 at night

2.) PEG MGF twice a week on days off
LR3 at night

3.) PEG MGF twice a week non workout days
MGF immediately post
LR3 at night

PEG is long acting. In my opinion the triple stack is going to cover all angles best. I liked it then started hating carting around a barrel to pin post workouts.

My next pep stack will be something like this
GHRP
CJC
MGF
IGF
TB500

I will run this after my show leading into off season to utilize the peptides effects while my body is in an extremely anabolic state post competition.

Running this while time off cycle will allow my receptors and levels to refresh while taking full advantage of the anabolic rebound to grow.

 

[malachi]

Once again, thanks! Very much appreciated.

 

[DangerDave]

Long half life is correct. I myself, also based on the application we seek and by my experience, find only the LR3 to be worth while hence the cost difference.

I have used the short igf pre work out followed by mgf post. I am a big beleiver in peptides.

If you wanted to incorp mgf there are 3 ways.

1.) Mgf immediately post workout
LR3 at night

2.) PEG MGF twice a week on days off
LR3 at night

3.) PEG MGF twice a week non workout days
MGF immediately post
LR3 at night

PEG is long acting. In my opinion the triple stack is going to cover all angles best. I liked it then started hating carting around a barrel to pin post workouts.

My next pep stack will be something like this
GHRP
CJC
MGF
IGF
TB500

I will run this after my show leading into off season to utilize the peptides effects while my body is in an extremely anabolic state post competition.

Running this while time off cycle will allow my receptors and levels to refresh while taking full advantage of the anabolic rebound to grow.

Awesome info man. I am wanting to use IGF and MGF in my pct and off cycle. I'm currently in week 7 of a 16 weeker. Can I pm you for advice in a few weeks?

 

[pitbullfit]

Awesome info man. I am wanting to use IGF and MGF in my pct and off cycle. I'm currently in week 7 of a 16 weeker. Can I pm you for advice in a few weeks?

Absolutely man. For sure.

 

[malachi]

Just started my IGF-1 cycle a few days ago at 60mcg per day. Zero hypoglycemia and I already love the stuff. I know there is no way it could have put on any new muscle yet, as it absolutely takes WAY longer for IGF-1's muscle building effects to kick in, but my muscles are already fuller (I would imagine from enhance glycogen storage) and I look leaner. Definitely a fan of this stuff already.

 

[xigotmailx]

I've been looking into IGF-1 since it was recommended to me during PCT...DAVE lol I still have a lot of reading to do Obviously you state that it creates new cells and then you still have to build them up just like you did before, this I knew. What does it do while you are on it? I see that Malachi is saying that his muscles seem more full already, what other effects to you see while on it? How long would one stay on peps?

For the noobs like me:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/13470-igf-1-information.html

 

[Papihustler33]

Following I'm very curious as well!,

 

[xigotmailx]

Well from what I got out of the link I posted is that during PCT IGF-1 LR3 would allow you to keep most if not all of your gains from cycle. With this information and the push from Dave I think I may end up giving this a go with my upcoming cycle. The hyperplasia sounds and is awesome!

 

[malachi]

This is my first time using IGF-1, so I'm by no means saying I'm anything even close to an expert on this issue. Therefore, take everything I say with a grain of salt. Everyone reacts differently to everything, and I may just be a hyper-responder to IGF. I've been on it for only four days now, and as stated, I'm already seeing a fuller appearance to my muscles, and I look a little leaner too. Also, I normally have pain in my left shoulder due to a minor rotator cuff tear I suffered about a year and a half ago. However, I just did a shoulder workout today and was able to lift slightly more weight with less pain. Plus, I've put on about 3 pounds and am getting great pumps in the gym. I would imagine the fuller muscle appearance, weight gain, and pump are mostly attributed to the insulin like effects of IGF-1 making my muscles absorb more glycogen and creatine, but whatever it may be, something good is definitely going on. I highly doubt it's a placebo effect, as I've taken pretty much everything under the sun other than peptides, so I know when something is working or not.

I'll keep this updated as I go, but I'm very pleased so far.

 

[david_golds]

Long half life is correct. I myself, also based on the application we seek and by my experience, find only the LR3 to be worth while hence the cost difference.

I have used the short igf pre work out followed by mgf post. I am a big beleiver in peptides.

If you wanted to incorp mgf there are 3 ways.

1.) Mgf immediately post workout
LR3 at night

Running this while time off cycle will allow my receptors and levels to refresh while taking full advantage of the anabolic rebound to grow.

This is very interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. I have always done the LR3 first thing in the morning. I'm going to try switching LR3 to night and adding MGF PWO, and PEG 2x/week.

I'm a big believer in IGF LR3. I've run IGF-1 LR3 to bridge at end of cycle and hit PRs in size and strength every time. It's an amazing feeling to still be growing 30-45 days after end of cycle. The stuff is amazing; I use it 40 days on, 25 days off, during maintenance.

I use GHRPs (CJC-1295, GHRP-6, IPAM) during the 25 days when I need to re-sensitize to IGF, and results are mixed. 25 days of crappy workouts feels like an eternity. I've never gained strength in this phase, and even lost a little when doing too much cardio and calorie restriction. The next round of IGF-1 LR3 usually brings it all back, and fast, but it would be nice to minimize any risk when off-cycle and off-IGF. I'm planning to run GW1516 in the next 'tween-IGF stage. We'll see how that works out; I'll report back in 60.