R3IGF-1: stability and systemic effects
- 09-15-2004, 02:22 PM
R3IGF-1: stability and systemic effects
A couple of questions with elusive answers despite ploughing through pages after pages of post on IGF-1
1. How "fragile" is R3IGF-1? Not referring to the solvent here it is quite stable in BA (as pointed out by einstein1905). I am referring to the transportation process. As Author L. Rea puts it in his CME, "a loud noise, shaking a vial, and sudden heat changes can render it (IGF-1, he did not make specific reference to Long R3IGF-1) nothing more than a bunch of expensive amino acids". While I'm quite sure extreme heat will damage it, I'm not that sure if it can be damaged by just a loud noise. What's your opinion? Is this concern overblown? Or does it just affect IGF-1 and not R3IGF-1? Or is it just a bunch of BS?
2. Most vets advocated administering R3IGF-1 intramuscularly. I distinctively remember (from einstein1905's post again) that plasma levels were relatively unchanged after IM injection of IGF-1. If that was true, then would it be right to infer that systemic effects (distended gut, athritic symptoms etc) would not be experienced? Or is there some other mechanism beyond what can be monitored by plasma changes that would explain these systemic effects? For the record, I have never read any first hand posts on the occurence of systemic effects by IM users, but these effects have been theorized by many.
Any inputs is greatly appreciated. Thanks to all for your time and attention.
- 09-15-2004, 11:21 PM
Igf-1 is not as fragile as everyone makes it out to be. A loud noise will not mess it up, i wouldnt worry. I actually talked to einstein about this a while back, because i dropped my igf-1 vial. A little shake or a drop isn't gonna do anything, neither will a noise. Shaking vigoriously before using may be another story though.
Einstein was a really smart bro. He helped me set up my whole igf-1, gh, and slin cycle, and taught me exact everything i needed to know about all 3. It's really too bad he turned scammer, he was def an asset to this board and many others.
PS. While i have a general idea regarding the answer to your second question, i'll let someone else w/ more experience answer that one.
- 09-15-2004, 11:29 PM
most of the reason for using IM comes from the BA that is used to suspend it... if you do it sub-q then you run the risk of having welps at skin level.. that is the main reason I have seen. and the main reason I went IM
09-16-2004, 12:38 AM
- 5'8" 197 lbs.
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MattD, Being 39 do you think IGF-1 made a major diff. in you physique?
09-16-2004, 12:55 AM
yes... it did help when I did it.. I am going to do it again soon I hope. as soon as I have some more cash... I haven't gotten to try GH yet but I think IGF-1 is good additioin for someone my age...
09-16-2004, 02:10 AM
Sorry to cut in here but could you Pm me about einstein going scammer. This is the first I have ever heard about that.
09-16-2004, 02:41 AM
yeah sure thing man, i'll do it right away.Originally Posted by MuscleResearch
09-16-2004, 04:07 AM
Regarding your 2nd question, it is safe to assume that side effects such as distended gut are much less likely when injected IM. Does this mean these side effects will NOT be experienced, absolutely not, they're just much less likely.
"There are IGF-1 receptors all over the place. You are, I'm assuming, taking IGF-1 to increase lean mass.You have a huge concentration of IGF receptors on your intestinal epithelia. If you go subQ, the IGF becomes systemic via your vascular system and will bind to receptors all over and cause growth (oversimplified). Lots will bind to IGF receptors on muscle, which is good. Some will bind to intestinal receptors or receptors on your spleen, which isn't what you're looking for. Going IM just focuses things and reduces possible adverse effects. This doesn't mean you'll get growth gut if you shoot subQ, but at high doses and over time, it will increase your chances."
I hope this helps some. I for one am glad that you're taking the time to really learn everything before taking the dive. I, like you, like to read every little bit of info i can find on a compound before i use it. Feel free to ask if you have any other questions.
09-16-2004, 04:58 AM
Thanks for the replies, JB, and everyone else. Your help is greatly appreciated.
09-16-2004, 02:16 PM
This statement alone, is enough for me to always go IM. I'm sure few, if any studies have been done on this. But if I can increase the number of favorable bindings with IM injections, I'm doing it. I've also read that IGF receptors are upregulated after training, in the muscles worked. I shoot whatever muscle I worked immediately after training.Originally Posted by JonBlaze
09-16-2004, 02:32 PM
Did you use BS water too. If so how did you mix it?
09-16-2004, 03:40 PM
don't you mean BW water? what's BS water?
as far as sub-q, it seems that the stuff leaks out anyways so there isn't a really big difference. I would want to do IM because it would lower the levels in serum compared to sub-q.
Some are doing off days at half dose. any idea if this makes a difference?
09-16-2004, 04:16 PM
Bs water is the same thing as BW. BS=BacterioStaticOriginally Posted by fiddler
Odrorir- Yes i do. I generally pull up the igf-1 first and pull up the BW up to the 0.8 mark. Next, i draw up 0.2 cc's of air, and rotate the syringe. It helps to get a better distribution throughout the BW. Next just push the air out and inject.
09-16-2004, 05:04 PM
sounds good. any problems with the needle going dull on you? i guess you could draw with one and inject with another one...
so do you use less on off days?
i ordered from MR on monday and haven't heard from them. any idea if they're backed up again?
btw - any guys out there interested in xenobiotics that have been proven to shut down pathways of cellular aging? animal models only. i think the FDA would have a cow if anyone jumped to human trials without spending at least a few billion.
09-16-2004, 06:49 PM
Needle gets a little dull, not to the point where it's any problem injecting. All the 0.5cc and 1cc syringes that i've seen dont have a deteachable needle, so you wouldn't be able to switch to a different one to inject. It really shouldn't be a problem though.Originally Posted by fiddler
I've read logs where people have used less on off days, and even some where people didn't use it on off days. I personally just do the same amount everyday including off days. On off days i like to inject first thing in the morning.
They usually dont give send a tracking number unless you specifically ask them, i dont think they're backed up. I know for a while there, they were out of the cold packaging to ship out the igf-1, but they should be fine now. If you PM them, they should tell you the status. They're pretty fast responding to PM's, usually within 24 hours.
09-16-2004, 06:56 PM
after poking the igf bottle and the BW bottle, i figure you can always pop another syringe open and squirt the stuff into it. pop the plunger back on and you have a new unused needle. probably won't lose too much stuff since the syringe does a pretty good job of squeegeeing.
09-16-2004, 07:01 PM
I've also done slin w/ the igf, so i was poking that vial as well, all w/ the same needle. The needle gets a bit dull, but not to the point where it would cause any sort of problem puncturing the skin.Originally Posted by fiddler
As for popping it into another syringe, i dont think it's worth it, just doesn't seem that practical unless you're extremly anal about it. You might possibly lose some in the needle, and a drop here and there when you stick the plunger back on, i wouldn't even bother.
Keep in mind a semi dull 23g needle is completely different than a semi dull 29-30g needle.
09-16-2004, 07:10 PM
sounds good to me. i think i will try the half dose on off days. i'm taking endocrinology right now and apparently the endocrin system likes pulses of different strengths to keep the receptors going at full capability.
Of course, it would simple to just cycle 4-6 weeks. I'm doing HST right now so that would fit really well.
at 40mcg i would have 25 days or 4 weeks.
at 40 3 days, 20 2 days then i would have a full 6.25 weeks.
at 40 3 days and 30 2 days i would have 5.5 weeks. which would be good for consolidation of post HST cycle.
09-16-2004, 07:15 PM
that looks good man. There really is nothing that i've seen that suggests one way being better than the other. I had this same exact question, searched everywhere and came up with nothing so i posted it in this forum a while back. There was no definite answer given, it's basically pick and choose.Originally Posted by fiddler
My next cycle will consist of 60mcg Ed for 40 days.
09-16-2004, 07:31 PM
i have a feeling that we won't really see any difference unless a study is done so that correlations on statistical data can be made. It's just too variable and probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference anyways.
09-17-2004, 12:10 AM
Don't try it. I had a needle bend when pulling our of the BW & had to transfer it. The IGF/BW mixure became all cloudy & separated, it was impossible to get the air out without losing any liquid. I lost at least 1/4 of the shot.Originally Posted by fiddler
09-17-2004, 02:30 AM
JB, you mind pming me about eistien going scammer? Also, then needles dulling isnt that much of an issue. I Once had poked through 2 vial tops, then hit an nerve and had to pull out and inject in a different spot with the same needle. Wasnt that hard.
09-17-2004, 10:21 AM
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