- 05-25-2004, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by jjjd
THe only main difference was that you get an almost instantaneous peak which is both pointless and dangerous.For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
- 05-25-2004, 04:21 PM
first of all, i am not "worried about the law". that's a strawman. however, i do FOLLOW the law. that is a choice i amke. THAT is why i would use humulin over humalog, if and when i would choose to use slin. because the former is available legally w/o a script.
second of all, i find it intellectually dishonest for you to go into the strawmen and tangents about "worry" about the law instead of simply admit you were wrong when you said
"Humalog is just as easy to get as its non prescription in Canada is not illegal to purchase through a website and import into the states."
that is FALSE. it IS illegal. an extremely minor crime, but still illegal. but you don't seem willing to just admit that. you just move on to addressing my MOTIVATION vis a vis the law instead of conceding that you were giving legal info. that was incorrect. when i am wrong, i am more than willing to admit that.
as to the anabolic effect, i am well aware of the issue of supercompensation. as a matter of fact, much of my training ideas are inspired by roman, vershoshansky etc. who practically live, eat and breathe supercompensation.
however, every idea i floated about the faster peak time and the faster clearance time that might POSSIBLY (i am not saying i know this, i am merely asking questions and speculating as i make quite clear) result from IV slin use is just that - a question and speculation. despite what you say, i have not seen a persuasive argument that the faster peak and faster clearance time might not have a more profound effect in the post workout hormonal milieu. iow, i think the jury is still out. i think ruffneck made some good points and cited some good data as you did, but i don't think anybody has come close to establishing what (if any) benefits might come from IV administration. however, it is clear there ARE additional costs - ie significantly more danger. one of the caveats of slin use (moreso humulin than humulog) is that it DOES maintain elevated levels in the body for relatively long which means it is kind of easier to get fat using it if you aren't careful with diet for HOURS after the workout. a possible advantage i see of IV slin use is that there is a quicker peak, and a quicker clearance time which means one could return to more normal eating patterns quicker after IV use, since the lipid shuttling effect wouldn't be an issue since you have returned to basal levels in 90 minutes which IS quicker than SC or IM use, as the study showed. that IS a difference i see as interesting. it seems from what i am reading that the time under the graph so to speak is similar with the different methods of admin, however the peak is reached quicker and the clearance time is quicker. whether THAT has any advantages or not, i don't know, but it MIGHT/
again, i am not recommending anybody use slin w/o a script, in any mode of administration, especially not IV.
- 05-25-2004, 07:24 PM
I wasn't wrong in what I said, you were. Just because you dont understand how insulin works is not my problem. I suggest you go back and reread the thread. The effects (anabalic)will be the same no matter what type is used. I told you that in the first post I made. You asked for studies, I gave them to you. What part of "the effects are similar" do you not understand? It seem YOUR the one that doens't want to admit anything but coming from a lawyer, I expect that.
You have already shown your ignorance in the subject yet try very hard to keep this subject alive even though it is extremely dangerous and pointless as countless others can see.
As for everything else, I realy don't care. You seem to love to always bring some sort of aspect of the law into every conversation then go off on some tangent to prove to everyone you have some sort of fascination with the law. Frankly, nobody cares.
And no there wasn't a difference from the last time. For some reason you don't want to do the math.
IV : 1-3 seconds to peak, back to noramal in 60 minutes.
SQ" 20 minutes to peak, 90 minutes back to normal.
WOW, A whole 10 minute difference. See, in science that is called statistically insignificant.
And if you actually did any research on this matter you could easily answer your own questions instead of dragging this out any furhter. The PEAK has nothing to do with the anabolic effect. Once supercompensation is achieved, it DOESN"T MATTER! Now you say your familiar with supercompensation but judging from your posts, you clearly are not.For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
05-25-2004, 07:31 PM
Intellectually dishonest? Right...
You start a thread about IV insulin use then criticize me. Stick to law.
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
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