IV Slin?

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  1. that's good stuff. i think it falls under the category of very dangerous, definitely iconoclastic, and possibly having an anabolic benefit vs. SC or IM.

    it's not the kind of thing somebody is going to fund a study for, obviously, so the best one can do is look at studies where slin (IV, SC, IM) was administered for other purposes and try to get an (at best) reasonably educated guess.

    but again, i advise against anybody trying this.

    this should be viewed as a discussion of hypothetical "anabolic modalities"


  2. Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    also, bobo, based on your study, it DOES appear to clear the system faster...it says the overall effect (which is not an anabolic effect i might add) is similar, however

    with IV, IRI reached maximal level in 2 minutes, and was back to basal in 90 minutes

    that is much much quicker to max level than SC or IM. which took 60 minutes.

    that is a hyoooge difference

    frankly, your study (after i reread it) i think bolsters my (wild assed guess) that IV insulin would give quicker peak time, more profound effect, and quicker clearance.

    would those NOT be good things, if one is solely talking about anabolic effect?
    No, your wrong again as I already told you the amount that it clears or peaks does not have any effect on supercompensation (the main reason exogenous insulin is so anabolic). It doesn't matter how fast it is achieved, the results are over a longer peroid of time. Studies even show supercompensation can be maintained up to 72 hours after it is achieved.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    see THIS is what i am looking for... dualing studies.

    and btw, i am not an "expert in pharmacology". i am very well versed in the law, though.

    and just because humalog is OTC in CANADA, that does not mean you can legally order it and have it shipped to the US w/o prescription.

    it is still a violation of the law

    it is prescription in the US. you need a script.

    and the 90 day exception doesn't apply since it's not experimental

    i think (at least at this point) based on your study vs. ruffneck's info, that the jury IS still out on whether IV clears the system faster,etc.
    If your that worried about the law, maybe you should look for other avenues.

    As for clearing the system, it doens't matter anyway. The whole arguement and premise is completely pointless.
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    also, bobo, based on your study, it DOES appear to clear the system faster...it says the overall effect (which is not an anabolic effect i might add) is similar, however

    ?
    It most certainly is th anabolic effect. Where do you think that glucose eventualy goes? Do you even know why exogenous insulin is so much more anabolic that physiological insulin release? Supercompensation.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by ruffneck
    The post from eboncall was hard to understand but what it concluded is that to return the body to biochemical normality it took approximately the same amount of insulin and the same amount of time. It looks like the amount of insulin given IV, IM, or SubQ is given in one dose at the same time. What it does not tell you is how often the injections are given or the amount of insulin that is given with each injection.



    I dont know exactly how it is broken down and how it is absorbed, but one thing is for sure only a fool would risk it no matter how anabolic it is.
    I would think with giving IV slin on a regular bases would end up affecting the way the body releases it own insulin and possibly leaving the person a insulin dependent diabetic.

    The same amount of insulin and the same amount of time? So what does that tell you about all of them and its ability to clear glucose from the blodstream? They are about the same but IV is much more dangerous since it does it quicker initially. SO the whle arguement is pointless as I've already stated numerous times. For some reaons people think the fast you fill glycogen stores the faster protein synthesis and the greater anabolic effect it will have and it ust is not true.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    also, bobo, based on your study, it DOES appear to clear the system faster...it says the overall effect (which is not an anabolic effect i might add) is similar, however

    with IV, IRI reached maximal level in 2 minutes, and was back to basal in 90 minutes

    that is much much quicker to max level than SC or IM. which took 60 minutes.

    that is a hyoooge difference
    Umm....no it isnt. Why? Because it peaked quicker in the IV group then the rest, so the overall difference wasn't much at all. So from the time from peak to normal levels wanst much different at all.

    THe only main difference was that you get an almost instantaneous peak which is both pointless and dangerous.
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  7. several points...

    first of all, i am not "worried about the law". that's a strawman. however, i do FOLLOW the law. that is a choice i amke. THAT is why i would use humulin over humalog, if and when i would choose to use slin. because the former is available legally w/o a script.

    second of all, i find it intellectually dishonest for you to go into the strawmen and tangents about "worry" about the law instead of simply admit you were wrong when you said

    "Humalog is just as easy to get as its non prescription in Canada is not illegal to purchase through a website and import into the states."

    that is FALSE. it IS illegal. an extremely minor crime, but still illegal. but you don't seem willing to just admit that. you just move on to addressing my MOTIVATION vis a vis the law instead of conceding that you were giving legal info. that was incorrect. when i am wrong, i am more than willing to admit that.

    as to the anabolic effect, i am well aware of the issue of supercompensation. as a matter of fact, much of my training ideas are inspired by roman, vershoshansky etc. who practically live, eat and breathe supercompensation.

    however, every idea i floated about the faster peak time and the faster clearance time that might POSSIBLY (i am not saying i know this, i am merely asking questions and speculating as i make quite clear) result from IV slin use is just that - a question and speculation. despite what you say, i have not seen a persuasive argument that the faster peak and faster clearance time might not have a more profound effect in the post workout hormonal milieu. iow, i think the jury is still out. i think ruffneck made some good points and cited some good data as you did, but i don't think anybody has come close to establishing what (if any) benefits might come from IV administration. however, it is clear there ARE additional costs - ie significantly more danger. one of the caveats of slin use (moreso humulin than humulog) is that it DOES maintain elevated levels in the body for relatively long which means it is kind of easier to get fat using it if you aren't careful with diet for HOURS after the workout. a possible advantage i see of IV slin use is that there is a quicker peak, and a quicker clearance time which means one could return to more normal eating patterns quicker after IV use, since the lipid shuttling effect wouldn't be an issue since you have returned to basal levels in 90 minutes which IS quicker than SC or IM use, as the study showed. that IS a difference i see as interesting. it seems from what i am reading that the time under the graph so to speak is similar with the different methods of admin, however the peak is reached quicker and the clearance time is quicker. whether THAT has any advantages or not, i don't know, but it MIGHT/

    again, i am not recommending anybody use slin w/o a script, in any mode of administration, especially not IV.

  8. I wasn't wrong in what I said, you were. Just because you dont understand how insulin works is not my problem. I suggest you go back and reread the thread. The effects (anabalic)will be the same no matter what type is used. I told you that in the first post I made. You asked for studies, I gave them to you. What part of "the effects are similar" do you not understand? It seem YOUR the one that doens't want to admit anything but coming from a lawyer, I expect that.


    You have already shown your ignorance in the subject yet try very hard to keep this subject alive even though it is extremely dangerous and pointless as countless others can see.

    As for everything else, I realy don't care. You seem to love to always bring some sort of aspect of the law into every conversation then go off on some tangent to prove to everyone you have some sort of fascination with the law. Frankly, nobody cares.


    And no there wasn't a difference from the last time. For some reason you don't want to do the math.

    IV : 1-3 seconds to peak, back to noramal in 60 minutes.
    SQ" 20 minutes to peak, 90 minutes back to normal.

    70-60=10

    WOW, A whole 10 minute difference. See, in science that is called statistically insignificant.

    And if you actually did any research on this matter you could easily answer your own questions instead of dragging this out any furhter. The PEAK has nothing to do with the anabolic effect. Once supercompensation is achieved, it DOESN"T MATTER! Now you say your familiar with supercompensation but judging from your posts, you clearly are not.
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  9. Intellectually dishonest? Right...


    You start a thread about IV insulin use then criticize me. Stick to law.






    ,
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