Hgh + test (eth) question

[Gouki187]

hello all,
I"m about 5'7 180 lbs, I have cycled plenty of pro hormones (mdrol, tren, pplex) to name some. I just purchased approx 200iu"s of hgh and 10 cc of test e. I am sure of their legitamacy. From what I have heard and researched I've gathered the following dosage schedule.

Hgh dosed at 3 iu"s a day (1.5iu"s before workout, 1.5 iu"s before bed)
Test E dosage
week 1/ 1 cc a week (sundays)
week 2/ 1 cc a week
week 3/ 2 cc a week
week 4/2 cc a week
week 5/2 cc a week
week 6/2 cc a week

My main question is that this is my first run with HGH and test so if anyone could offer general advice or some experiences to please post I would greatly appreciate it, also feel free to ask me any questions

 

[Gouki187]

am most likely considering nolvadex for pct, any thoughts?

 

[DavesNotHere]

Nolva will be fine for PCT.

I dont think running 250mg of T E is for the first two weeks is a good idea. It takes 3-4 weeks for it to kick in and you're only running 6 weeks. Get another vial and run 500mgs per week for 10 weeks. Split the dose and shoot 1cc every Sunday and Wednesday. Wait 2 weeks after last injection to start PCT. Consider some A-dex and run it .25 - .5mgs EOD to keep the bloat down. If you run into gyno trouble, up the dose to ED. Some HCG wouldnt hurt either. 500ius per week split into 2 doses. If you add the HCG you DEFINATELY want the Adex. Run the HCG all the way up to PCT, but not during. Some up the dose to 1000ius/ week for the last 2 weeks.

OR

Run everyhing as listed and add some Dbol, Drol, or even Mdrol to kickstart the cycle for 3-4 weeks.

The first option will give you less sides and you'll keep more gains due to the HCG and longer reinforcement.

HGH should be dosed upon waking and post workout. Dosing preWO will make you lethargic for the workout. Dosing pre-bed screws with your natural GH production. Use GHRPs for pre-bed dosing.
You'll also need a couple more HGH kits as one will just get you started.

 

[mike4266]

More test! I am not sure if yout test is 200 mg/cc or 250 mg/cc, but I would start with at least 500 mg. and work up to at least 750 mg. The magic starts to happen around a gram. Another idea for HGH is 4 iu's, 5 days a week. 2 iu's in the morning and 2 iu's in the afternoon or after workouts.

 

[EasyEJL]

More test! I am not sure if yout test is 200 mg/cc or 250 mg/cc, but I would start with at least 500 mg. and work up to at least 750 mg. The magic starts to happen around a gram. Another idea for HGH is 4 iu's, 5 days a week. 2 iu's in the morning and 2 iu's in the afternoon or after workouts.

Thats totally irresponsible. Maybe for you the "magic" starts to happen at a gram, but funny enough i've talked to retired IFBB pros who never went over 350mg/wk. So you can make plenty of gains at more realistic doses.

 

[Gouki187]

ive talked to several people who have run the identical cycle, im not worried about increasing the dosage, 2cc's seems to be in the middle of the debate. I will most likely after reading everyones opinion is extend the test cycle for 10-12 weeks. Am still debating dosage of the GH. 3 iu"s seems to be enough not sure if 4iu's would aggravate any sides though. Also gh is extremely expensive and would like to run it alongside the test as long as possible. Ive cycled prohormones before many a time and would much rather just run the test so i can listen to my body

 

[Gouki187]

the idea of dosing twice sounds better but i believe i am limited on needles so once a week will do (sundays)

 

[Gouki187]

im talking about the test e above not the gh lol

 

[DavesNotHere]

More test! I am not sure if yout test is 200 mg/cc or 250 mg/cc, but I would start with at least 500 mg. and work up to at least 750 mg. The magic starts to happen around a gram. Another idea for HGH is 4 iu's, 5 days a week. 2 iu's in the morning and 2 iu's in the afternoon or after workouts.

No different than running 3ius straight. GH is more cumulative than dose-dependent. 4ius/ 5 days a week = 20ius. 3ius/ 7 days a week = 21 ius

The idea behind running 5 on 2 off was so bros could stretch out their run. GH is so cheap these days that bros can afford to run it str8.

 

[DavesNotHere]

the idea of dosing twice sounds better but i believe i am limited on needles so once a week will do (sundays)

Dosing 2x week helps to keep blood levels even. NBD.

Pins are cheap.


Yeah bro 500mgs for 10 weeks will make you very happy. Keep us posted.

 

[mike4266]

The two days off is just to give the receptors a rest. That's the thought process behind 5 on to 2 off or EOD.

 

[mike4266]

If this is his first cycle I agree. He doesn't need that much, but I am of the Dan Duchaine way of thinking with juice. It's the cumulative weekly number that's the key. IFBB pros using 350 mg/week??? Maybe the smaller guys that never won anything. All the guys that I know that are 280++++ take at least a gram a week. We're here to exchange info. I hope every takes any info they receive with a grain of salt.

 

[MrBigPR]

HGH needs to be run for at least 6 months...

 

[Gouki187]

thanks for all the helpful information. Im going to start running the cycle on Wednesday. Diet will be relatively clean with a focus on high carbs for mass with the test. You are all welcome to follow along as I will start a log if enough people would like. At the moment i'm trying to increase weight roughly 20 lbs in hopes the gh will keep me looking relatively lean as well. If you have any questions for me I will more than happily answer! cant wait!!

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Thats totally irresponsible. Maybe for you the "magic" starts to happen at a gram, but funny enough i've talked to retired IFBB pros who never went over 350mg/wk. So you can make plenty of gains at more realistic doses.

6 weeks on test E, why bother?

not doubting you easy, but almost every recommended cycle states to use 250mg twice a week for 10-12 weeks for a virgin cycle.

dbol kickstart optional

just saying.........I mean, are we talking HG or UG gear?.........there can be a difference.

 

[EasyEJL]

6 weeks on test E, why bother?

not doubting you easy, but almost every recommended cycle states to use 250mg twice a week for 10-12 weeks for a virgin cycle.

dbol kickstart optional

just saying.........I mean, are we talking HG or UG gear?.........there can be a difference.

6 weeks is definitely pointless on test-e.

Sure almost every recommended cycle now floating on the internet says that, but so what? most first time cyclers have the rough equivalent of under 175mg of test-e a week in their bloodstream. a 300-350mg a week cycle is still doubling your testosterone levels, and more than capable of providing gains. Its just part of the whole "bigger stronger faster more now" thing that everyone recommends that. 20 years ago, nobody did. Part of it as well is availability of support items, easy access to AIs and SERMs. But just because there are more items available to counter sides, isn't it worth it run the lower doses while they are still effective for you and not need the ancilliaries?

From what I see too for most first time cyclers they aren't all that big yet, so often i'd have to guess their diet/training isn't 100% either, and they don't need 500mgs to make a difference. Heck there was one goofball who was over 6' tall and was in the mid 150s weightwise and people were recommending 500mg/wk for him. He'd surely not eat enough to see significantly more gains from 500 than 300.

 

[DavesNotHere]

The two days off is just to give the receptors a rest. That's the thought process behind 5 on to 2 off or EOD.

On a long G run IGF levels become so elevated that 2 days isnt enough time off to give the receptors any rest.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

6 weeks is definitely pointless on test-e.

Sure almost every recommended cycle now floating on the internet says that, but so what? most first time cyclers have the rough equivalent of under 175mg of test-e a week in their bloodstream. a 300-350mg a week cycle is still doubling your testosterone levels, and more than capable of providing gains. Its just part of the whole "bigger stronger faster more now" thing that everyone recommends that. 20 years ago, nobody did. Part of it as well is availability of support items, easy access to AIs and SERMs. But just because there are more items available to counter sides, isn't it worth it run the lower doses while they are still effective for you and not need the ancilliaries?

From what I see too for most first time cyclers they aren't all that big yet, so often i'd have to guess their diet/training isn't 100% either, and they don't need 500mgs to make a difference. Heck there was one goofball who was over 6' tall and was in the mid 150s weightwise and people were recommending 500mg/wk for him. He'd surely not eat enough to see significantly more gains from 500 than 300.

less not forgo the quality of the gear..........

if your talking pharma HG gear, Im with you on 350 EW and see how the results go.........

but UG and homebrews, well, i would say some are underdosed. wouldnt you?

not everyone can get a script for their test, like some.....:sad3:

 

[EasyEJL]

less not forgo the quality of the gear..........

if your talking pharma HG gear, Im with you on 350 EW and see how the results go.........

but UG and homebrews, well, i would say some are underdosed. wouldnt you?

not everyone can get a script for their test, like some.....:sad3:

Actually, testing has found some UG to be overdosed. When you look at it, you can yourself (barring issues with customs) order test cyp powder from china for $1500-1800 a kg. thats $1.50/1.80 a gram, or 3-3.60 for what goes into a 10ml vial at 200mg/ml. They generally don't underdose to save money, as it wouldn't save that much, and if people complain on boards that its weak, then their sales go down over that $1 a vial. Overdosing on the other hand they do to spike the product, so they get good feedback so they get more buyers. crazy. so really risky to get much in the way of UG gear.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Actually, testing has found some UG to be overdosed. When you look at it, you can yourself (barring issues with customs) order test cyp powder from china for $1500-1800 a kg. thats $1.50/1.80 a gram, or 3-3.60 for what goes into a 10ml vial at 200mg/ml. They generally don't underdose to save money, as it wouldn't save that much, and if people complain on boards that its weak, then their sales go down over that $1 a vial. Overdosing on the other hand they do to spike the product, so they get good feedback so they get more buyers. crazy. so really risky to get much in the way of UG gear.

ahhh.........nice pitch easy, but not always the case and you know it.

 

[EasyEJL]

Oh definitely possible to be underdosed too, but from what i've seen from Llewelyn's reporting, surprisingly overdosing is more common. Mostly you just dont know what the hell you are getting, like a pile of the different other steroids like Eq, Deca, etc ended up being testosterone or testosterone + tren or something else. And even with the testosterones just because the label says testosterone cypionate doesn't mean thats what in the bottle.

Pretty much if you are 200 or under, you can do a successful cycle on under 500mg. If you aren't at least 225 and lean then you don't need to go over 500. Of course its not linear, so as you go up from there 10lbs heavier needs a lot more test to just make a 10 lean lb gain.

part of the reason I advocate the lighter cycles particularly as first cycles is that very few people do once cycle and then stop so honestly whether they get 12lbs and keep 10, or 25lbs and keep 16 from the cycle, they are going to do another. Personally i'd rather do the 12lbs with keep 10 and less sides and less chance of gyno than to get a little more mass in the one cycle, but raise risks significantly. if you can run 10 weekers and get 10lbs after pct consistently over and over again, its not a bad thing

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Oh definitely possible to be underdosed too, but from what i've seen from Llewelyn's reporting, surprisingly overdosing is more common. Mostly you just dont know what the hell you are getting, like a pile of the different other steroids like Eq, Deca, etc ended up being testosterone or testosterone + tren or something else. And even with the testosterones just because the label says testosterone cypionate doesn't mean thats what in the bottle.

Pretty much if you are 200 or under, you can do a successful cycle on under 500mg. If you aren't at least 225 and lean then you don't need to go over 500. Of course its not linear, so as you go up from there 10lbs heavier needs a lot more test to just make a 10 lean lb gain.

part of the reason I advocate the lighter cycles particularly as first cycles is that very few people do once cycle and then stop so honestly whether they get 12lbs and keep 10, or 25lbs and keep 16 from the cycle, they are going to do another. Personally i'd rather do the 12lbs with keep 10 and less sides and less chance of gyno than to get a little more mass in the one cycle, but raise risks significantly. if you can run 10 weekers and get 10lbs after pct consistently over and over again, its not a bad thing

well put......

Not much talk about cycles here.

AT other places i visit specifically to learn about the darkside, it just seems 500mg is always, always recommended for a first cycle.......just stating

its not like i can ask my doctor about this stuff. lol.

not yet. the big 4 0

hey less can be more, for sure.

 

[EasyEJL]

well put......

Not much talk about cycles here.

AT other places i visit specifically to learn about the darkside, it just seems 500mg is always, always recommended for a first cycle.......just stating

its not like i can ask my doctor about this stuff. lol.

not yet. the big 4 0

hey less can be more, for sure.

Yeah, we have so many 21 year olds with a tendency to just repeat what they read elsewhere. having ramped + played with my dosing "accidentally" i can say there is a noticeable difference from 150-200-300-400 a week. If normal male top end is near 150, and I can feel the difference going up from there, then likely i'd get more gains too if I was trying to

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Yeah, we have so many 21 year olds with a tendency to just repeat what they read elsewhere. having ramped + played with my dosing "accidentally" i can say there is a noticeable difference from 150-200-300-400 a week. If normal male top end is near 150, and I can feel the difference going up from there, then likely i'd get more gains too if I was trying to

this shouldnt be a revelant statement, honestly..............

there is NO Need for a healthy 18-25 y/o male to be pinning test.........

very few exceptions to that rule.

 

[EasyEJL]

Its funny, they are the biggest group doing it, or at least talking about it

IMO if you don't have blood tests showing low testosterone, and you can't get to a BMI of over 25 at 10% bf or less then you have no need to touch juice or prohormones as diet and training are obviously a problem.

And nobody anywhere ever should cycle without getting a full male hormone panel first, just so that you have a baseline.

 

[mike4266]

On a long G run IGF levels become so elevated that 2 days isnt enough time off to give the receptors any rest.

????? Give the IGF-1 receptors a rest? So benefits from HGH are only seen through IGF-1 receptors? One of the benefits of HGH is elevated IGF-1 levels, but that is not the only benefit. If that was the case why don't we all just take IGF-1? It's cheaper, and you can get it legally. If you look at the HGH studies in relation to dosage protocol vs. children's height, all signs point to an EOD protocol as being superior, due to it more closely mimicing the pulses of natural HGH productions, and giving the HGH receptors (not IGF-1) a rest. Just because my growth plates have been closed for 12 years I still pay attention to studies like these. HGH is expensive, I want the most for my money. I think everyone has to find there own dosage protocol, but don't discredit 5 on 2 off, or EOD just yet.