Des (1-3) Igf-1

[djbombsquad]

Any one every try this?

DES (1-3) IGF-1 (NOT THE SAME AS IGF-1)

Most athletes have heard of IGF-1 (Insulin like growth factor-1) and the amazing anabolic effects it has been reported to have upon protein based tissue such as muscle. Des (1-3) IGF-1 is over 10 times (1000%) more anabolic than IGF-1. Now that is amazing!!

IGF-1 is actually produced from both Insulin and growth hormone in the liver and other tissues. IGF-1 is made up of 70 amino acids in a chain. Well, when a clever chemist removes the last 3 amino acids in the IGF-1 chain (the N-terminal tri-peptide) it becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 and 1000% plus more anabolic. Why? IGF-1 circulates through our blood stream and tissue 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Unfortunately, most of the IGF-1 is inactive because it is bound by another protein called (get this) IGF-1 Binding Protein-3, or IGF-1-BP-3 for short. Since bound hormones can not fit into and trigger a receptor-site, the majority of circulating and muscle IGF-1 can not trigger an anabolic stimulus. Like tons of cellulite in a porno movie (who watches those?) there is little good stuff happening. However, when IGF-1 is altered and becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 the binding protein IGF-1-BP-3 can not bind to it and it is totally active. Another reason Des (1-3) IGF-1 is so potent is its unique ability to fit into lactic acid altered IGF-1 receptor sites. (YUP) When we train we burn carbohydrates as a fuel to make cellular ATP. When cells switch to this ATP pathway, the by-product is Lactic Acid. This is of course the cause of most of the burn we feel during intense or higher rep sets. Well, the lactic acid build-up is called acidosis, and it destroys the shape of some receptor-sites for period of time. Therefore some anabolic/anti-catabolic hormones have difficulty merging with their respective receptor- site and triggering a response (such as even unbound IGF-1). Not so with Des (1-3) IGF- 1, the super growth factor. It fits into the IGF-1 receptor-site even after acidosis. Des (1- 3) IGF-1 is unbound, over 10 times more potent than IGF-1, and it picks receptor-site locks. Too bad it has only a few minute active-life.

Did you know that our body's make Des (1-3) IGF-1 naturally? Most un-informed individuals claim other wise, but it is true. When an athlete trains lactic acid builds up in muscle tissue. As we know, there is always IGF-1 / GH present in the blood stream and tissues (including muscle) from prior work-outs and other metabolic factors. That lactic acid burn triggers IGF-1/GH secretion from both prior and present work-outs. Unfortunately, lactic acid destroys some of the IGF-1 present in muscles being trained. But wait, this is good too!

Lactic acid also cuts (truncates) the last 3 amino acids off the 70 amino acid chain of "some" of the surviving IGF-1 and creates Des (I-3) IGF-1. So acidosis increases GH/IGF-1 production in the liver, "unbinds" IGF-1 locally in the muscle being trained (burned), destroys some of the IGF-1, and converts some IGF-1 into Des (I-3) IGF-1. Huh, good deal. And the synthetic form of this super anabolic stuff is beginning to show up on the black market more frequently.

 

[ludacris007]

i am confused about this type of IGF-1. looked all over for user feedback but couldnt. i have seen it for sale at a couple of places. i might just roll the dice and try it out. I may just use my lr3 igf-1 and enjoy those results.

 

[djbombsquad]

I am curious my self I have only write ups but no user feed back. In theory looks like its awesome. Maybe even a stack with peg mgf and ghrp6

 

[papapumpsd]

Remember this thread? http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/97404-insulin-like-growth.html

 

[djbombsquad]

Cool. Read that. Neat info. Hopefully someone trys and compares it.

 

[ludacris007]

what dosage would use with des igf1 how many injects per week.

 

[djbombsquad]

Well looks so new that no one has really logged it to see a proper protocol. If any thing I would stack that with peg mgf and ghrp6. I am assuming this is IM not Sub Q. I am talking to few friends that I may do a future cycle with for 6 months or till money runs out. Which ever comes 1st. Again it looks new no logs yet so I don't know. I will keep searching to better find my answer.

 

[djbombsquad]

I am asking around currently and people I have spoke to said do a protocol it like regular igf1 and even dose it a bit less since its 10x more than regular igf1.

 

[ludacris007]

now when u say reg igf 1 u mean lr3 igf1 right? I am thinking 20 mcg ed. for 50 days. sound good or no?

 

[papapumpsd]

If this IGF variant is so "good", then why aren't more people using it? I think answering that question would be very helpful from efficacy, safety, and cost standpoints.

-Papa!-

 

[ludacris007]

is it cuz it is a new peptide? or maybe it is just now reaching us in terms of availability. i am ready to try it.

 

[djbombsquad]

It is most likely a new peptide as far as the compound goes there for research is still fresh off the pocket. I think once cost comes down more people are going to try it out. It does sound promising but how would this compare to igf2. Yes I am referring to lr3 igf1 which is what most people would be using any way right compared to regular igf1?

 

[ludacris007]

**** man if it is xxxx per cent more anabolic that would be crazy. I love lr3 igf1 but if this is better I can justify paying more. I might run this in november/december. 50 days 20 mcgs per day ed. I will adjust the dose if needed

 

[papapumpsd]

It is most likely a new peptide as far as the compound goes there for research is still fresh off the pocket. I think once cost comes down more people are going to try it out. It does sound promising but how would this compare to igf2. Yes I am referring to lr3 igf1 which is what most people would be using any way right compared to regular igf1?

Yes, most run LR3 variant of IGF-1.

 

[djbombsquad]

That is what I was thinking. I mean its not like technology has stopped. What about this des igf1 stacked with mgf and ghrp6?

How crazy would that be.

 

[djbombsquad]

How does this compare to igf2?

 

[papapumpsd]

That is what I was thinking. I mean its not like technology has stopped. What about this des igf1 stacked with mgf and ghrp6?

How crazy would that be.

With all of Dat's data and convo on GH releasers, why would you run GHRP-6 w/o CJC-1295? And why would you run IGF-1 along with GH releasers? I may be mistaken, but Dat's thread has info saying there could be negative feedback at hand if administering exog. IGF-1.

Remember, GH results in IGF-1 release.

 

[pumbertot]

hate to bring it up but dj you need to run a "eat to get big" food cycle followed by some heavy weights cycle and a few good old fashioned AAS cycles before you should be thinking about tinkering with peptides.

igf2 has already been discussed. it has been concluded that in fully grown adults there are very few igf2 receptors, and they are found mainly in the intestines.

 

[BLACK747]

im actually on igf-1 [des] right know have been for about 2 weeks and for me it gives excellent pumps for me it works well
taking preworkout because of the extremely short half life

 

[pumbertot]

im actually on igf-1 [des] right know have been for about 2 weeks and for me it gives excellent pumps for me it works well
taking preworkout because of the extremely short half life

shows promise but of course we dont care about pumps, which is the insulin like effect of the peptide. we want crazy hyperplasia so keep us updated. hey why not run a log? you do them best.

so i guess we need an equivalent of an LR3 version to increase the half-life. that said I thought it was supposed to remain unbound for much longer than rIGF-1?

 

[djbombsquad]

Log would be awesome.

 

[BLACK747]

I will keep everyone posted on my progress

 

[xtraflossy]

I have seen posts on this here before, at least a year or two ago. Same story then as now I'd assume as to why it's not really being run..

Price.
It's just to damn expensive. And not your couple hundred dollar expensive either. Like $5000 or something for a few weeks at a moderate does. And it just isnt worth the price most likely.
There was someone in this thread using it, and while It's an interesting compound, he has been on it for a few weeks and hasn't been like "Holy **** batman"! I'm huuuuuuuuuuge:sad:

 

[ludacris007]

if it has such a short half life then what the hell is it good for? maybe this peptide is all hype!

 

[djbombsquad]

yea.

 

[xtraflossy]

if it has such a short half life then what the hell is it good for? maybe this peptide is all hype!

lol- from the look of things the only ones creating hype for this in bodybuilding applications are us.
Its used in research, and has never promised to make anyone huge.

 

[djbombsquad]

Click to enlarge
To investigate the role of IGFBPs on survival signaling and IGFBP-independent effects of IGF-1, we examined the survival response induced by LR3 and Des 1,3. LR3 and Des 1,3 rescued pVSMCs in low serum, suggesting that high IGFBP production by pVSMCs is a major factor contributing to the lack of a survival response to IGF-1. However, although IGF-1 and LR3 produced very different levels of protection in pVSMCs, the kinetics and extent of Akt kinase activity in response to LR3 and IGF-1 were similar. This suggests that, although both LR3 and IGF-1 survival responses required PI 3-kinase, LR3 may elicit a survival response downstream of Akt or independent of Akt. Although a number of pathways are involved in growth factor–mediated survival,50 we show that the survival effect of LR3 does not require ERK signaling. However, we have not excluded the possibility that Akt differentially phosphorylates Bad, caspase-9, or FKHRL1 in pVSMCs, resulting in reduced antiapoptotic signaling. Throught he research that was found chempep and growpep have clearly stated the potency of IGF-1 DES is much stronger and efficient. However Lr3 also is showing it's power. DES is very new and a verypotent form of IGF-1. Only some research is out, but it is promising for future medicine.

 

[BLACK747]

right know its 200 a mg not to bad

 

[papapumpsd]

right know its 200 a mg not to bad

That is relative to the dose (and one's income )? 20mcg bilat? 10mcg? ???

 

[xtraflossy]

right know its 200 a mg not to bad

Well you have to do the math on this one..

We use LR3 becasue it has a longer half-life then IGF1.
We used MGF and the half life was too short so we used peg-mgf (as opposed to viral administration of course).

Why?? Because while at $200 a gram, how many shots would you have to use daily to elicit the desired effect? (lol- you do know that you make this compound naturally right? ,..its cleaved via lactic acid if I recall correctly)

Anyways, 30-100mcg shots a few times a day,.. you will go through it

Then when you look at possible gains vs. price (and ease of use) LR3 looks much better.

Now, should it become bound to something to preserve the halflife, then it will be a different story. But right now, it doesn't look like you can compare it to LR3, simply because the playing field isn't on even ground.

 

[ludacris007]

i guess i misunderstood what was being said about this compound. i thought the half life was extended due to the lack of binding to IGFBP. if that is the case then the fact that it is 1000 percent more anabolic is negated right? it doesnt make sense to me right now from what i have read. maybe i should reread this ****. also i read on another board that lr3 igf1 is just a glucose disposal agent only and that the hyperslasia thing is more of a myth than fact. anyone care to comment.

 

[BLACK747]

i agree luda 100 percent something not adding up either way its seems to be working

 

[djbombsquad]

200 bucks is not bad again that is buying just once. Think buying in bulk. It may drop it by few dollars.

 

[djbombsquad]

I am getting a price this week for a 30 day supply to see how much I can get it for. If its reasonable I will think about it for the future.

 

[Bobaslaw]

I am getting a price this week for a 30 day supply to see how much I can get it for. If its reasonable I will think about it for the future.

DJ, I think you suffer from peptide ADD syndrome.

 

[djbombsquad]

I have a friend that will do a cycle with me. I am currently logging cre 02 so I can't do any thing but once I am done I may do cre 02 and some peptides.

 

[pumbertot]

DJ, I think you suffer from peptide ADD syndrome.

i was thinking more of 'pipe dreams' syndrome.

 

[pumbertot]

i guess i misunderstood what was being said about this compound. i thought the half life was extended due to the lack of binding to IGFBP. if that is the case then the fact that it is 1000 percent more anabolic is negated right? it doesnt make sense to me right now from what i have read. maybe i should reread this ****. also i read on another board that lr3 igf1 is just a glucose disposal agent only and that the hyperslasia thing is more of a myth than fact. anyone care to comment.

its not a myth, the research literature proves that igf causes hyperplasia and there is anecdotal evidence that lr3 can to a lesser degree mimic the body's own igf.

 

[kbtoy31]

its not a myth, the research literature proves that igf causes hyperplasia and there is anecdotal evidence that lr3 can to a lesser degree mimic the body's own igf.

I'm not saying you're wrong however theres a debate going on about that very question on another forum I belong to. I'm not sure it was who first wrote it but they are saying once you alter the protein chain that makes it the Lr3 version it's not the exacvt same compound and it's no longer useful as a bb'ing supplement. What heres the post I found on my other forum not saying I believe it or not. I'm willing to give anything a try once. I may react differently.

After many years of making countless posts on LR3 IGF-1, I've finally tired of the topic.
This will be my last post ever on LR3 IGF-1.

1) Gropep,who invented LR3 IGF-1, altered the protein chain for prolonged lab experiments. Once the protein chain was altered, IGF-1 lost it's muscle building properties once converted to LR3 IGF-1

2)Yes, some legit research has shown that IGF can multiply muscle fiber, but there is ZERO research on LR3 IGF-1, nor will there ever be. It was meant for lab cultures only

3) Should you get IGF-1, it is rendered useless by using acetic acid, since you need the correct pH and ionic environment for the peptide chains to unwind. HCL is what's needed.

4)The bulk of the response to IGF comes from it's ability to act as a sensational glucose disposal agent. This is the part where IGF's name, "Insulinlike", comes to the fore.

5) I'm convinced any weight gain on LR3 IGF-1 is an uptick in glycogen/ water retention.

6) Myself, along with several friends ,conducted studies on ourselves running LR3 IGF-1 at 3 different doses. Since LR3 IGF-1 is touted as some miracle mass builder, we never used steroids in our experiments. At 100 mcg, 150 mcg, and 200 mcg no one experienced muscle gains after 4 weeks on. Yes, we had hydrostatic testing done before during and after each experiment.

I think you get my point ....no more LR3 IGF-1 debate for me. You want to piss your money away, go for it.


~RR

 

[kbtoy31]

Also if they pegylated the (des) wouldn't that give it a longer half-life as well. I'd like to see that. B/c if it's just astronomically expensive and has a half life of a few minutes. That wouldn't have me buying it any time soon.

 

[pumbertot]

I'm not saying you're wrong however theres a debate going on about that very question on another forum I belong to. I'm not sure it was who first wrote it but they are saying once you alter the protein chain that makes it the Lr3 version it's not the exacvt same compound and it's no longer useful as a bb'ing supplement. What heres the post I found on my other forum not saying I believe it or not. I'm willing to give anything a try once. I may react differently.

for me hyperplasia can be see if one has to take extended layoffs from training. you retain way more muscle than previous times when you have used igf for a few months in between. ive experienced this personally, Grunt has too and many others. its a debate but as that refernece says to me theres no debate.

Im happy I get hyperplasia and if you dont want any of that then dont take it.

edit: I should close by saying I ahve no reason to try to publicly defend my beliefs. im happy if nobody else was to use igflr3, all the more for me to use.lol.

 

[Grunt76]

With all of Dat's data and convo on GH releasers, why would you run GHRP-6 w/o CJC-1295? And why would you run IGF-1 along with GH releasers? I may be mistaken, but Dat's thread has info saying there could be negative feedback at hand if administering exog. IGF-1.

Remember, GH results in IGF-1 release.

It would be more appropriate to state that in sedentary people, GH results in IGF-1 release whereas in athletes GH results mostly in MGF release (which is admittedly another form of IGF-1 but still bears clarifying due to our needs and uses).

The GH releasers would most certainly be exactly BECAUSE there is a negative feedback loop. If I remember correctly, that negative feedback loop is mediated through somatostatin, and the releasers work through diminishing somatostatin effects. Which is perfect.

Well you have to do the math on this one..

We use LR3 becasue it has a longer half-life then IGF1.
We used MGF and the half life was too short so we used peg-mgf (as opposed to viral administration of course).

Why?? Because while at $200 a gram, how many shots would you have to use daily to elicit the desired effect? (lol- you do know that you make this compound naturally right? ,..its cleaved via lactic acid if I recall correctly)

Anyways, 30-100mcg shots a few times a day,.. you will go through it

Then when you look at possible gains vs. price (and ease of use) LR3 looks much better.

Now, should it become bound to something to preserve the halflife, then it will be a different story. But right now, it doesn't look like you can compare it to LR3, simply because the playing field isn't on even ground.

Actually LR3 has a SHORTER half-life in the body than normal human hepatic IGF-1. And that's a GOOD thing.

Actually LR3 is considered to be roughly 10x as potent as hIGF-1 and so is the DES[1-3] form, making them possibly equal. Then again, for our needs, only lab work (i.e. human trials, LMAO) will tell us which one is better.

 

[djbombsquad]

I have seen research however that suggests the half life of DES1,3 is so short yet powerful that there were some very interesting research articles a person found that showed research with LR 3, and DES. The DES is very powerful from what I have read, but yes the half life is extremely quick. I am not a researcher though. I would think looking at government websites such as National Institutes of Health, or NIST, or anything from some student researchers that post in there University blogs would allow us to better see how DES can or can not benefit us.

 

[Grunt76]

I have seen research however that suggests the half life of DES1,3 is so short yet powerful that there were some very interesting research articles a person found that showed research with LR 3, and DES. The DES is very powerful from what I have read, but yes the half life is extremely quick. I am not a researcher though. I would think looking at government websites such as National Institutes of Health, or NIST, or anything from some student researchers that post in there University blogs would allow us to better see how DES can or can not benefit us.

I'm ready for the lab work part of it...

 

[djbombsquad]

I know. I want to see lab work too. If I can get it for a reasonable price I may do half des and the other half of the cycle lr3.

 

[xtraflossy]

I'm not saying you're wrong however theres a debate going on about that very question on another forum I belong to. I'm not sure it was who first wrote it but they are saying once you alter the protein chain that makes it the Lr3 version it's not the exacvt same compound and it's no longer useful as a bb'ing supplement. What heres the post I found on my other forum not saying I believe it or not. I'm willing to give anything a try once. I may react differently.

lol- Its the same information going around over and over...

IGF1=hyperplasia. Thats how your body does it.
LR3= bound IGF1. IS usefull in bb'ing, as it activates the slin receptors. So if your arguing that slin is ineffective then..:fool2:

HOWEVER; LR3 CAN be broken dow by the body's normal processes just like IGH1. You theoreticly CAN produce more des-igf this way then you normally might.
LR3 is modified at the beginning of the peptide chain I beleive, so if broken/cleaved in the middle, then the second half would be identical to a portion of the original IGF chain (in regards to des-igf)

Its pricy; again. it has a short half life, again. You would need to use it in a manner simular to regular igf (not LR3)

for a few hundread dollars, you are better off going with LR3. If you want the novilty of being one of the privilaged who uses des-igf, then by all means, do so. I totally understand. Ive spent the money right when mgf came out (and was one of the first to use/log it here)
My spelling DOES suck, and sucks more at 6am

 

[Grunt76]

Also if they pegylated the (des) wouldn't that give it a longer half-life as well. I'd like to see that. B/c if it's just astronomically expensive and has a half life of a few minutes. That wouldn't have me buying it any time soon.

What is it with you guys and long half-lives?

First step is UNDERSTANDING HOW IT WORKS.

Second step is NOT WONDERING ABOUT half-life because it's NOT A POINT.

IGF-1 binds to a receptor and activates intracellular pathways. WHY ON EARTH would you want it floating in your blood for a long time? It starts doing its job when it activates a receptor. The form of IGF-1 that has the longest half-life is the hIGF-1 which gets bound by IGFBP's. It floats around for hours. Instead, we inject stuff that binds to receptors right away and gets to work instead of floating around uselessly.

I can't believe this. Why am I always re-typing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again? :aargh:

 

[papapumpsd]

What is it with you guys and long half-lives?

First step is UNDERSTANDING HOW IT WORKS.

Second step is NOT WONDERING ABOUT half-life because it's NOT A POINT.

IGF-1 binds to a receptor and activates intracellular pathways. WHY ON EARTH would you want it floating in your blood for a long time? It starts doing its job when it activates a receptor. The form of IGF-1 that has the longest half-life is the hIGF-1 which gets bound by IGFBP's. It floats around for hours. Instead, we inject stuff that binds to receptors right away and gets to work instead of floating around uselessly.

I can't believe this. Why am I always re-typing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again? :aargh:

LOL grunt! Hey, if people want a long half-life for no good reason, go nuts! They're just repeating a fancy term they heard used for other compounds and think it fits for all compounds. These individuals would be known as simpletons. They refuse to attempt to understand the basics. I'm willing to bet they'd like an IGF compound w/a half-life of 10 years.....hey, why not?! That sh!t will be floating around "active" for 10 years....isn't that the point?! NOPE! The point is, as you have stated, to BIND to its appropriate receptor and "gets to work".

It really is as simple as you make it. IGF is a chemical messenger. It floats around and binds to a receptor and "tells" the cell to do something (aka, "sends the message"). Why someone would want this messenger bumbling around for a long time, who knows. Again, people are just regurgitating "hear say" in a way that makes no sense.

 

[xtraflossy]

It would be more appropriate to state that in sedentary people, GH results in IGF-1 release whereas in athletes GH results mostly in MGF release (which is admittedly another form of IGF-1 but still bears clarifying due to our needs and uses).

The GH releasers would most certainly be exactly BECAUSE there is a negative feedback loop. If I remember correctly, that negative feedback loop is mediated through somatostatin, and the releasers work through diminishing somatostatin effects. Which is perfect.



Actually LR3 has a SHORTER half-life in the body than normal human hepatic IGF-1. And that's a GOOD thing.

Actually LR3 is considered to be roughly 10x as potent as hIGF-1 and so is the DES[1-3] form, making them possibly equal. Then again, for our needs, only lab work (i.e. human trials, LMAO) will tell us which one is better.

lol- Im going to try and get you to repeat it one more time:woohoo:
almost anyways..

LR3, is a bound form of igf-1; activates to a large degree the slin receptors, which is a immediate effect.
igf-1 (what we would use) is not atached to a binding protein. which gives it an immediate effect.

So; as far as half-lives go, are they the same in terms of effectiveness or is there some other measurement by which this is measured within the body?

 

[Grunt76]

lol- Im going to try and get you to repeat it one more time:woohoo:
almost anyways..

LR3, is a bound form of igf-1; activates to a large degree the slin receptors, which is a immediate effect.
igf-1 (what we would use) is not atached to a binding protein. which gives it an immediate effect.

So; as far as half-lives go, are they the same in terms of effectiveness or is there some other measurement by which this is measured within the body?

LR3 is NOT a bound form of IGF-1. It is an UNBINDABLE form of IGF-1. Not to be confused with the hIGF-1/IGFBP3 complex which is expensive but available also. hIGF-1 binds to IGFBP's whether you like it or not. In other words, when you inject hIGF-1, some of it will go to work on your target cells just like the LR3 and some of it will get bound by the various IGFBP's. Your liver may well start pumping out additional IGFBP's as well, sensing the amount of unbound IGF-1 being out of whack.

I also want to know if LR3 will also trigger the release of IGFBP's which would be a FANTASTIC thing.

That it would bind more to the insulin receptor than hIGF-1 contradicts pretty much everything I have seen on cell culture data. It activates the IGF-1 receptor which shuttles in aminos and sugars. Whether or not the SAME intracellular pathways get activated as with hIGF-1 I do not know, and in terms of efficacy, it is way up in the air. How would we compare???

I cannot for the life of me begin to think up an experiment that would do this in a "fair" manner.

I do know quite a few users of good IGF-1 LR3 and none are conclusive that there is no NEW CELL EFFECT, i.e. permanent, delayed, long-term growth as well as other effects.