[observer377]

does raising gh raise test as well

[djbombsquad]

no...

[Gutterpump]

Somehow it can help a lot in PCT with test recovery. I've read this in a lot of places. Search for it on this forum and you're bound to find some info.

[LMR]

absolutely not and I can explain.

testosterone is to Hormone

HGH is to Amino

HGH utilizes a different method inducing muscularity and protein synthesis upregulation. I can say both testosterone and HGH are syngergistic though and feed off each other for a much greater gain.

HGH stimulates satelite cells actually doubling a cell rather than cell volumizing.

Testosterone increased will upregulate protein synthesis but by cell cell volumizing not cell reproduction like HGH.

Being HGH is not a hormone it does not suppress nor increase test output. Now as for HGH I dont know of studies showing increasing HGH will down regulate the pituitary gland. Increasing Test levels will definitely cause a suppression.

[Gutterpump]

IGF-1 has proven to aid with not only retention of gains in PCT, but also aids with recovery/bounce back of testosterone somehow....I wish I can find where I've read this, but I've definitely read it from senior members....Insulin as well, but that's another story. The use of both can definitely help recover test if PCT isn't going too well..or just within a normal PCT protocol.

edit: found some of the info here >>

The value of IGF-1 and GH becomes so much more significant when we realize their integral role in testicular function. In fact, it seems that these hormones are more effective at building testes, than muscles.

Research has shown GH to be vitally important in testicular function, 95-97 but it is generally accepted that the beneficial effects are directly mediated by hGH’s conversion to IGF-1.98 As many of you know, IGF-1 is created in the liver by GH, upon interacting with insulin. So, we will be focusing on the usage and benefits of IGF-1, rather than GH, as it seems more cost effective and directly related to our purpose of optimizing recovery.

In short, IGF-1 increases steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (sTAR),98 and cholesterol side chain cleaving enzyme (CYP 11A)99. These are both rate-limiting steps and are critical factors for converting cholesterol into hormones, such as testosterone. IGF-1 also has the ability to increase the concentration of steroidogenic enzymes in the testes, such as 3b HSD.100 IGF-1 can also increase the testes sensitivity to LH and hCG by increasing the number of LH receptors.99-102

These positive effects on testicular function make IGF-1 an ideal drug for PCT. A dose of IGF-1 Lr3 at 80mcg/day, split two times per day, would likely be the most cost effective dose.

[LMR]

the only benefit i see in IGF usage for PCT is the uptake of protein synthesis. Same effect steroids has on the cells. That's why using insulin or IGF are beneficial during PCT. When you lose test levels protein synthesis lowers so running another product to increase where one product leaves off creates this bridge. IGF uses the same pathways as insulin thus force feeding cells thus the usage of HGH since growth hormone does convert to IGF through the liver.

I use GH post work out just for this reason for a faster and better recovery.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by LMR

absolutely not and I can explain.

testosterone is to Hormone

HGH is to Amino

HGH utilizes a different method inducing muscularity and protein synthesis upregulation. I can say both testosterone and HGH are syngergistic though and feed off each other for a much greater gain.

HGH stimulates satelite cells actually doubling a cell rather than cell volumizing.

Testosterone increased will upregulate protein synthesis but by cell cell volumizing not cell reproduction like HGH.

GH & IGF-1 act to stimulate proein synthesis, while insulin acts primarily to inhibit protein breakdown (as well as inhibiting glucose breakdown in muscle...).

GH's major action is to stimulate protein synthesis. It is at least as powerful as testosterone in this effect. Both Test & GH act through different pathways so their effects are additive.

It remains to be prove, but it is possible that their actions are synergistic as well.

Originally Posted by LMR

Being HGH is not a hormone it does not suppress nor increase test output.

HGH or Human Growth Hormone is a hormone. It is a peptide or a string of amino acids but that is of no consequence. It is a hormone.

Originally Posted by LMR

Now as for HGH I dont know of studies showing increasing HGH will down regulate the pituitary gland.

Growth hormone levels do exert a negative feedback both through the increase in liver synthesized IGF-1 that it engenders and directly itself.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by LMR

the only benefit i see in IGF usage for PCT is the uptake of protein synthesis. Same effect steroids has on the cells. That's why using insulin or IGF are beneficial during PCT. When you lose test levels protein synthesis lowers so running another product to increase where one product leaves off creates this bridge. IGF uses the same pathways as insulin thus force feeding cells thus the usage of HGH since growth hormone does convert to IGF through the liver.

I use GH post work out just for this reason for a faster and better recovery.

IGF-1 has been shown in studies to increase Follicle-Stimulating Hormone with positive impact on Luteinizing Hormone as well.

Insulin also has been shown to enhance Luteinizing hormone and Follicle-stimulating hormone.

These things lead to quicker recovery.

GH therapy leads to higher IGF-1 & insulin levels and has been shown to slowly result in a decline in SHBG.

Insulin does result in a decline in SHBG.

There is no relationship between IGF-1 & SHBG.

These things lead to more bioavailable hormones (such as testosterone) and better recovery.

[observer377]

So basicly, GH does a ton of things, but specificly it raises igf-1 and insunlin levels which make you extremely anabolic. It also declines the SHBG wich kind of " supports" your TEST right? But from what im understanding is that it actually dosent "raise" test. On another note, im looking for a good GH supplement. ive looked online and ive seen that secretagogue-1 or secretagogue gold by MHP are some good ones. Is that true? Also, for the all around positive effects, taking a sup to increase GH is better than igf-1 right? Because an increase of gh is going to in effect increase igf-1 and as a result increase insulin and gain all the other positive effects of taking GH. Does this sound correct?

[LMR]

Originally Posted by LMR

absolutely not and I can explain.

testosterone is to Hormone

HGH is to Amino

HGH utilizes a different method inducing muscularity and protein synthesis upregulation. I can say both testosterone and HGH are syngergistic though and feed off each other for a much greater gain.

HGH stimulates satelite cells actually doubling a cell rather than cell volumizing.

Testosterone increased will upregulate protein synthesis but by cell cell volumizing not cell reproduction like HGH.

Being HGH is not a hormone it does not suppress nor increase test output. Now as for HGH I dont know of studies showing increasing HGH will down regulate the pituitary gland. Increasing Test levels will definitely cause a suppression.

Wow did I freakin say that?! I must have drank the dumb coffee that day and not the smart coffee. Wow!! I dont even know how I typed that up and not caught that. I was answering emails all day and chit chattin on another forum I was typing and not thinking out what i was typing wow!!

thx for the correct datBtrue

[LMR]

I hadnt read any studies showing a direct stimulation on the testes by IGF or Insulin to increase LH levels. I think they contribute in recovery in aiding the feed back loop during shut down. ACtually if you have one please post it up for me to refer to in the futre for more informational advice.

Im assuming from my gathered information because these two products increase protein synthesis or upregulate they contribute to recovery where another hormone may leave off.

I do know when test levels drop to 0 the body goes into a state of shock and is left to fend by flushing cells with what in terms is called an estrogen flood. This is the bodies way of self stimulation. If protein uptake is still being kept up by secondary or third stimulus like IGF and Insulin then this may trigger LH elevation.

Originally Posted by datBtrue

IGF-1 has been shown in studies to increase Follicle-Stimulating Hormone with positive impact on Luteinizing Hormone as well.

Insulin also has been shown to enhance Luteinizing hormone and Follicle-stimulating hormone.

These things lead to quicker recovery.

GH therapy leads to higher IGF-1 & insulin levels and has been shown to slowly result in a decline in SHBG.

Insulin does result in a decline in SHBG.

There is no relationship between IGF-1 & SHBG.

These things lead to more bioavailable hormones (such as testosterone) and better recovery.

[Gutterpump]

Originally Posted by observer377

It also declines the SHBG wich kind of " supports" your TEST right? But from what im understanding is that it actually dosent "raise" test.

Yes, it definitely helps your balls produce more test while also freeing up more test via lowered SHBG. Check out my quote a few posts above. IGF-1 definitely helps the process which converts cholesterol into androgens and also increases LH sensitivity in the testicles while increasing FSH (FSH is to sperm production as LH is to testosterone production)..which produces elevated test levels. I would not say that it will give you supraphysiological levels though, possibly with an AI to prevent the negative feedback loop (but that's needed with any 'natural' test booster over time).