Odd X-Lean (good) results and a question...

Force of Green

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Weird X-Lean results... in a good way...
I'm aware of the importance of cortisol and I'm aware of the negative feedback mechanisms that are used as checks and balances for hormone regularity, etc... However, I've been megadosing X-Lean for a little bit now (12-14 caps a day for 10 days)... I worked up from 4 a day... I heard of a few cases whereas 12 caps yielded no side effects and dramatic ab fatloss results... I have had some lower ab fat that I've always had. I was even considering some minor-invasive lipo (when I go for my gyno surgery which is NOT costly at all because it's so minor)... enough rambling...

I've lost a SEVERE amount of fat while megadosing this product. The fatloss is literally mind boggling. The lower fat has been melting away. It is really insane.

My questions are:

1. How long of spurts can I megadose X-Lean before the negative feedback mechanism kicks in and my cortisol levels start insanely rising?

2. Could I use X-Lean 3-4 days a week without having to cycle off? Like Mon/Weds/Fri? Cortisol is most importantly kept in check for workout days, correct? I take Relora, so it's pretty good otherwise.
 
Movin_weight

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i'm not sure about this one homie! a rapid decrease in cortisol is going to send your body into "fu*cked up" mode pretty fast... you don't want to irradicate cortisol as it is a very important hormone... the idea is to regulate it and keep it from spiking too high throughout the day

I would start tapering down slowly right now for a good couple weeks so your body can adjust and you don't have a massive surge in cortisol and end up gaining a azz load of wait and lose muscle
 
Force of Green

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i'm not sure about this one homie! a rapid decrease in cortisol is going to send your body into "fu*cked up" mode pretty fast... you don't want to irradicate cortisol as it is a very important hormone... the idea is to regulate it and keep it from spiking too high throughout the day

I would start tapering down slowly right now for a good couple weeks so your body can adjust and you don't have a massive surge in cortisol and end up gaining a azz load of wait and lose muscle
Hey bro, I'm definitely aware of the importance of cortisol, etc... A person who knows what they're doing has done an extremely high dose, but I'm not sure for how long. I'm hoping maybe IBE will chime in... actually maybe Dr. D as well...

Testosterone is a very important hormone and has other functions besides bodybuilding (obviously) and cortisol has a lot of important functions as well. I've experienced no sides so far, but I'm wondering if an expert or someone who's tried this can answer.

Thank you for your input and I'll definitely be tapering down... I feel you with that.
 

CHAPS

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You could megadose for a month then go down to 6caps or so on workout days and 3 on off days. I know what you mean though i did 12 caps and LOVED IT!
 
Movin_weight

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you guys got me intrigued now... how much of a decrease in cortisol are we talking at this dose? I'v seen bloodwork done at normal dosage for other cort blockers and people drop a few units over the course of a month but nothing dramatic

obviously if no sides are being experienced then this dose isn't completely shutting down cortisol production but still curious about numbers

and i'm also assuming you incorporated a significant taper when comeing off? how was rebound if any?
 
Force of Green

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I've been megadosing it and getting results I'd expect from lipo. No joke.
 
Force of Green

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ok so no stiff joints?
No, I don't have stiff joints. I am taking 2 - 3 caps of super cissus daily and Animal Pak vitamins have shark cartilage... I'm not experiencing any stiffness from it... yet. If I do, I'll let you know.
 
neoborn

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Intriguing. If I can get some hands on some product I'll try this :)

Thanks for the positive feedback contribution!

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
Force of Green

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Intriguing. If I can get some hands on some product I'll try this :)

Thanks for the positive feedback contribution!

Much Love,

Neoborn
Yeah boss, it's good stuff! The other question I had was for long term use. Can I use it indefinitely if just taken 3x per week? Or like this...
Monday, Wednesday, Friday- 2 caps morning/2 caps pre workout/ 2 caps during/ 2 caps post workout
Tuesday, Thursday - 1 cap morning/1 cap afternoon
Weekends off

Would this throw off the bodies hormone system? I figure it'd just keep cortisol in check when normally during such activity they would be sky-rocketing, which would lead to adrenal fatigue in the long run.
 
neoborn

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If you feel you want to go to those dosages on, on days then so be it. I would think ( not experience here ) that:

"On" Days: 1 morning, 2 pre, 2 post

"Off" Days ( days immediately following your workouts ): 2 morning 1 afternoon.

This is just my thinking though. I would think Cort would be higher the following day as well no?

Let me see if I can get Dr.D or someone in here :D

Much Love,

Neoborn
 

CHAPS

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Yeah boss, it's good stuff! The other question I had was for long term use. Can I use it indefinitely if just taken 3x per week? Or like this...
Monday, Wednesday, Friday- 2 caps morning/2 caps pre workout/ 2 caps during/ 2 caps post workout
Tuesday, Thursday - 1 cap morning/1 cap afternoon
Weekends off

Would this throw off the bodies hormone system? I figure it'd just keep cortisol in check when normally during such activity they would be sky-rocketing, which would lead to adrenal fatigue in the long run.
I believe Dr D uses it on workout days and has been for sometime now, you should talk to him about this one.
 

CHAPS

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As for joint soreness i had none even at 12 caps and i'm telling you cortisol was SQUASHED because my lower ab fat was going supppppper fast, and recovery from workouts was much better, the only problem is you burn through a bottle in like 6 days or so, so i only got to do this for liek 2 weeks but i saw DRAMATIC change in those 2 weeks. I just ordered some Retain 2 which Dr D said is supposed to be of equal strength as he designed the two and i'll get some more X-lean off of IBE, i'd liek to compare the two.
 

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Just a tip for those concerned about cortisol, sip on branch chain aminos or whey during your workouts to keep cortisol levels in check and take a cortisol lowering supplement pre-workout to really squash it. These two are especially important if your workouts are longer than 45-60 minutes.
 
Whacked

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1) Aren't you guys taking HIGH doses of X-Lean tired as hell??
2) I was under the impression that X-Lean does NOT impact joints the same way a typical anti-cort would do to a minor derviation of the chemical!?!?
 

CHAPS

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1) Aren't you guys taking HIGH doses of X-Lean tired as hell??
2) I was under the impression that X-Lean does NOT impact joints the same way a typical anti-cort would do to a minor derviation of the chemical!?!?
No i wasn't tired as hell and my joints felt completely normal, one of the ingredients act as an anti-inflammatory so you don't get the inflammation you normally would with most anti-cortisol products.
 
wojo

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As for joint soreness i had none even at 12 caps and i'm telling you cortisol was SQUASHED because my lower ab fat was going supppppper fast, and recovery from workouts was much better, the only problem is you burn through a bottle in like 6 days or so, so i only got to do this for liek 2 weeks but i saw DRAMATIC change in those 2 weeks. I just ordered some Retain 2 which Dr D said is supposed to be of equal strength as he designed the two and i'll get some more X-lean off of IBE, i'd liek to compare the two.
yea i got 2 bottles of retain 2 sitting here...2 weeks of megadose sounds great...got a wedding coming up with a lot of people i went to hs with..lot of them look like ass would love to pop in looking leaner and meaner..god im petty haha
 
Force of Green

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If I were yall, I wouldn't megadose Retain 2. Relora, found in Retain 2 has been known to have a sedative effect over 1.5 grams for those who have tried it for medical reasons, although it's not a bad thing they say. The dose for Relora daily is 750mg divided into 3 doses (breakfast, lunch, dinner). It takes some time for the cumulative effects to reach baseline, but I personally think that Relora should be taken as a longer term thing without dose fluctuations ;)
 
Movin_weight

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so whats the deal with rebound after a regimine like this??? i mean it sounds great if it's melting away fat, but it isn't worth it if when you come off your cortisol levels soar and remain high for a while and cause adrenal fatigue along with other probs...
 
neoborn

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I would think that tapering over a two week period would help with this. Also doing the sipping bcaa's / whey during workout that Chaps suggested. I pm'd Dr.D so maybe he'll show up here :toofunny:


Much Love,

Neoborn
 

CHAPS

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If I were yall, I wouldn't megadose Retain 2. Relora, found in Retain 2 has been known to have a sedative effect over 1.5 grams for those who have tried it for medical reasons, although it's not a bad thing they say. The dose for Relora daily is 750mg divided into 3 doses (breakfast, lunch, dinner). It takes some time for the cumulative effects to reach baseline, but I personally think that Relora should be taken as a longer term thing without dose fluctuations ;)
I was going to use the retain 2 at 3 caps a day, not megadosed.
 
DR.D

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Megadosing is not a problem, at least as far as cortisol rebound goes, because these DHEA derivatives do not suppress cortisol to a great extent (Relora does to a degree), they simple antagonize it with an oppositional effect. Just like megadosing an antihistamine when you're sick, histamine levels don't rebound when you stop, if anything receptors are upregulated which will attenuate itself once you quit, so it's all good.

What you really have to watch for are sides while you're dosing. If you experience symptoms of insufficient cortisol, it will be once the dose gets too high, not afterward, though I would still ramp down once you stop just so there is no drastic immune rebound. This supp really boosts immunity, and sudden withdrawal might trigger a latent illness (like a cold or flu) that was being indefinitely suspended by the super low cortisol expression.

Like was stated though, it is pretty joint friendly and has an anti-inflammatory effect due to the AET component, so enjoy at high doses with minimal risk of joint probs! I am working with IBE as we speak to increase doses on this product so you guys can megadose with slightly fewer caps required. ;) That will take several months to ripple though, if they can even afford to do it.
 
LakeMountD

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I honestly wouldn't go longer than 5-6 week spurts. Just like any other supp that you alter hormones with, you don't want to go too long. Do I have any scientific evidence to back this up? No, I do not, but I am doing this solely off of common sense. Plus since X-Lean has such strong antimicrobial effects, I don't want to see a rebound and have someone get a cold or flu immediately thereafter.
 
EasyEJL

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Ha heres a funny question since there are reps from both companies handy and Dr D as well, which of the 2 (retain 2 or x-lean) would be more cost effective while megadosing?
 
LakeMountD

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I believe they are the same price.

The difference lies in which DHEA derivative you believe in. Look closely and you will see that X-Lean and Retain 2 have two different ingredients (and one common one). We believe that ours is the more powerful derivative and I am sure AX believes theirs is.

We might be upping the dosage on X-Lean soon too.
 

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I believe they are the same price.

The difference lies in which DHEA derivative you believe in. Look closely and you will see that X-Lean and Retain 2 have two different ingredients (and one common one). We believe that ours is the more powerful derivative and I am sure AX believes theirs is.

We might be upping the dosage on X-Lean soon too.
Crank that baby up! :dance:
 
EasyEJL

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I've lost a SEVERE amount of fat while megadosing this product. The fatloss is literally mind boggling. The lower fat has been melting away. It is really insane.
What would a severe amount of fat be in pounds or % ? :) Just kind of wondering dosage cost vs losses
 
T-Bone

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It looks like an economy size bottle might be needed as well, 500 or 1000 ct? lol

I don't really believe in "Mega-dosing". It just sounds retarded to me, if you have a bottle of pills that say take 3 a day, and you tell me, "Well I'm taking 15 a day, it works better that way.":fool2: :fool2: :fool2: :fool2: :fool2: :fool2: :fool2: :fool2:
 
Force of Green

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I honestly wouldn't go longer than 5-6 week spurts. Just like any other supp that you alter hormones with, you don't want to go too long. Do I have any scientific evidence to back this up? No, I do not, but I am doing this solely off of common sense. Plus since X-Lean has such strong antimicrobial effects, I don't want to see a rebound and have someone get a cold or flu immediately thereafter.
5-6 week spurts of megadosing, right? So, 5-6 weeks.... taper down and then eventually take a break, then come back on?
 
DR.D

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I don't really believe in "Mega-dosing". It just sounds retarded to me, if you have a bottle of pills that say take 3 a day, and you tell me, "Well I'm taking 15 a day, it works better that way.":fool2: :fool2: :fool2: :fool2: :fool2: :fool2: :fool2: :fool2:
It's all relative, T-bone. If the pills were 500mg each, instead of 50, would taking 1 pill still be mega dosing even though it would really be like taking 10? 500mg is not required for cortisol antagonism, but these higher doses do favor fat loss.
 
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It's all relative, T-bone. If the pills were 500mg each, instead of 50, would taking 1 pill still be mega dosing even though it would really be like taking 10? 500mg is not required for cortisol antagonism, but these higher doses do favor fat loss.

I just think that the product should be dosed the way the manufacturer intended it to be and that the recommendation should be the safest possible dose while still being effective. A few manufacturers have put warnings on their bottles of certain supplements saying "Do not consume more than the recommended dosage" which I think is a good thing. Maybe what I am trying to say is that labeling on products should be more descriptive of dosages. If I take cold medicine for instance, I read the bottle first including the warnings and following dosing instructions accordingly. The same thing goes for anything I put in my body including supplements. Maybe other people don't think this way, is it just me?.
 
neoborn

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I agree with you but then again when you blanket market a product you cannot take everyone into your perspective, so listening to your body and your results allows you to make decisions on increasing dosages so you actually have an affect from a product you have paid good money for vs not experiencing anything positive at all.

So there are always two sides to every story and different ways or getting the experience you want.

Much Love,

Neoborn

P.S I honestly think there is way too much of the "do more and I'll get / feel more" type thinking in bodybuilding but I think that also comes with personality, it also may be an American "bigger is better" type behaviour i.e. "if a little is good, alot will be amazing"....sigh.
 

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What would a severe amount of fat be in pounds or % ? :) Just kind of wondering dosage cost vs losses
It's hard to put it into pounds, think of 1lb of fat as 1lb of butter, think of how big 1 lb of butter is now imagine say 3 lbs of straight fat gone from your abs, that is a DRAMATIC difference, that's the type of results i saw.
 
EasyEJL

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It's hard to put it into pounds, think of 1lb of fat as 1lb of butter, think of how big 1 lb of butter is now imagine say 3 lbs of straight fat gone from your abs, that is a DRAMATIC difference, that's the type of results i saw.
Hmm and at $2.50ish a day at 10-12 a day, not too bad, unless I did my math wrong. I may try a couple bottles, maybe during PCT, to keep cortisol nailed down at the same time.
 
Whacked

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Megadosing is not a problem, at least as far as cortisol rebound goes, because these DHEA derivatives do not suppress cortisol to a great extent (Relora does to a degree), they simple antagonize it with an oppositional effect. Just like megadosing an antihistamine when you're sick, histamine levels don't rebound when you stop, if anything receptors are upregulated which will attenuate itself once you quit, so it's all good.

What you really have to watch for are sides while you're dosing. If you experience symptoms of insufficient cortisol, it will be once the dose gets too high, not afterward, though I would still ramp down once you stop just so there is no drastic immune rebound. This supp really boosts immunity, and sudden withdrawal might trigger a latent illness (like a cold or flu) that was being indefinitely suspended by the super low cortisol expression.
Thanks for the response DrD but I am confused about comment above. What's "all good" mmean with regard to upregulating cort receptors? That's probably the last thing anyone would want to do, correct? It's no different that upregulating the nasty fat-accumuating A2 receptors in response to post-clen use. Sure, while ON clen, you burn fat like a champ, then you get off and many people end up fatter than pre-clen due to the upregulation spoken of here. Thanks for the clarification.
 

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Would it be a bad idea to run Xlean at 6 caps during a PP cycle? :think:
 
Movin_weight

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Thanks for the response DrD but I am confused about comment above. What's "all good" mmean with regard to upregulating cort receptors? That's probably the last thing anyone would want to do, correct? It's no different that upregulating the nasty fat-accumuating A2 receptors in response to post-clen use. Sure, while ON clen, you burn fat like a champ, then you get off and many people end up fatter than pre-clen due to the upregulation spoken of here. Thanks for the clarification.
:goodpost:

this was what i was trying to get an answer for an you put it into much better words... if the drug has a strong antagonistic effect on cort receptors then it will surely cause sensitization, and is definitely not something you want... even with a slow taper over a couple weeks i would still think there would be come excess cort binding and an affinity for fat gain when a person discontinues this protocol
 
DR.D

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Thanks for the response DrD but I am confused about comment above. What's "all good" mmean with regard to upregulating cort receptors? That's probably the last thing anyone would want to do, correct? It's no different that upregulating the nasty fat-accumuating A2 receptors in response to post-clen use. Sure, while ON clen, you burn fat like a champ, then you get off and many people end up fatter than pre-clen due to the upregulation spoken of here. Thanks for the clarification.
I see where I should have been more specific. If cortisol levels rebounded, then yes, more receptor spells greater expression. This does not occur though so it's good because in that case more receptor creates a diluted effect for what cortisol is there.

In reality, I have honestly never seen any crash or rebound from even sudden discontinuances of cortisol antagonists.
 
wojo

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Joint issues can be caused by glucurcortoids. I don't see how antagonizing them would cause joint issues.

huh? i was refering to repressing cort and stiff joints..D set it straight
 
Force of Green

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I've been continuing to dose the X-Lean very high and I've experienced no sides whatsoever and I'm into week 2.5 (almost 3)... abs are literally bricks... and the bottom layer of fat is melting off. I wish I was taking pictures during this whole thing... it's NUTS! I am adding in Retain 2 because of the Relora.

My guess is that Retain 2 (250 mg proprietary blend) has 200 mg Relora, 25 mg triol, and 25 mg 7-keto.

I'm running this for another 4 weeks:

2 X-Lean and 1 Retain 2
***few hours later
2 X-Lean
*** few hours later
2 X-Lean and 1 Retain 2
***
2 X-Lean
***
1 X-Lean and 2 Retain 2
***
2 X-Lean

bedtime (gamma hydroxy butyrate)
3.5 hours later wakeup
1 X-Lean and more cap of gamma-o
wakeup
Repeat*

I'll then switch to this protocol after 4 more weeks
Monday-Friday
morning:
2 X-Lean and 1 Retain 2

Early Afternoon
1 X-Lean and 1 Retain 2

Evening

1 X-Lean and 2 Retain 2

Workout days I'll add 2 more caps of X-Lean pre and post

Weekends I'll stick with just Retain 2 protocol and 1 X-Lean first thing in the morning

After maybe 16 weeks, I'll take off of these products and just take Relora to get the DHEA deratives out of my system and refresh myself. The Relora will maintain properly low cortisol levels and my enzymes will clear for metabolizing the bAET, 7-keto, and the beta-OH-DHEA.
 
neoborn

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FOG you crazy mofo are you waking yourself up in the night to take this stuff? :D :toofunny:

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
Force of Green

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LOL! I can't help it. When the medicine wears off there's a surge of dopamine and I have a glass of water and an X-Lean on the dresser when dawn comes early. Sometimes I'll pop on AM at 4:30 and post for 15 minutes then pass back out.

Neoborn, do you see an issue with this cortisol modulation protocol? I remember a while ago I had good results from double-dosing Blaze, by SAN, but the results weren't nearly this good and this fast.
 
neoborn

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Be it far from me to be a pro at this point on this, though I will say that people, like Chaps, have high / double dosed this stuff with great results.

For any kind of hardcore knowledge I would want Dr.D to come in and have a go at answering, he knows his stuff....

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
dhuge67

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Bought 3 bottles to try this out. 6 or 8 caps a day for 3 weeks? Would a fat-loss regimen combining this anti-cortisol product and something like DCP be advisable?
 
DR.D

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Bought 3 bottles to try this out. 6 or 8 caps a day for 3 weeks? Would a fat-loss regimen combining this anti-cortisol product and something like DCP be advisable?
Just be ready for a melt down. :)
 

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