I need a grocery list.....

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    I need a grocery list.....


    So far I have 2 bottles of Epistane, 1,000 mg caps of fish oil, a multi-vit and whey.

    Is the fish oil enough for liver support during the cycle? Should I take it during PCT, too? ( I read it helps joints)

    What're the "neccessaties" for PCT? Could I get away with AX's APCT and 6-oxo?

    Thanks!
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    For some reason, I just. You know what, I'll just shut up now.
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    Why don't you go check out the Post Cycle Therapy section of the board? Your every question will be answered there. I suggest you spend a LOT of time in there reading before you pop your first Epi pill.
    •   
       

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    Lemme re-phrase.....

    Do I NEED to do all this? ( from poopy's log)

    Week Epistane/Cissus/Poseidon/Mass Fx/Powerfull/Toremifene/HDX2/CEE/AEE/CitMalate

    120mg(10mg 2x 5days)/30mg(10mg morn/20mg p.w.o 2days)/3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)
    230mg(10mg am/10mg pwo/10mg pm for 3 days)40mg (10mg am/10 mg aft/10mg pre&post w/o for 4 days)/3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/20g(5g 4x ed)
    340mg (10mg am/10 mg aft/10mg pre&post w/o)/3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/20g(5g 4x ed)
    440mg (10mg am/10 mg aft/10mg pre&post w/o)/3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/20g(5g 4x ed)/2 caps(530mg 2x for 5 days)/4 caps(spread out for 3 days)/120mg (LAST DAY ONLY)
    5120mg(1days)/90mg(5days)/75mg(1day)/4 caps(spread out)/4 caps(530mg 4x ed)/3960mg(1320mg 3x ed)/
    3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/2gea. respectively before w/o drink and 5g crea mono after w/o
    675mg(5days)/60mg(2days)/4 caps(spread out)/4 caps(530mg 4x ed)/3960mg(1320mg 3x ed)/
    3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/2gea. respectively before w/o drink and 5g crea mono after w/o
    760mg/4 caps(spread out)/4 caps(530mg 4x ed)/3960mg(1320mg 3x ed)/
    3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/2gea. respectively before w/o drink and 5g crea mono after w/o
    830mg(till it was out, like 3 days)/4 caps(spread out)/4 caps(530mg 4x until out)/3960mg(1320mg 3x ed)/
    3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/2gea. respectively before w/o drink and 5g crea mono after w/o





    -OR- could I survive with ZMA and reversitol (i-force)? I was thinking something different in the first post when I put in AX's aPCT, but whatev's....
    Last edited by waynaferd; 10-05-2008 at 04:41 PM. Reason: because it is fun for me
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    So I can get away with just this then, from otcpctdotcom.........

    --------------------------

    The following is an Over The Counter PCT for Epistane.


    Weeks 1 - 2

    POST Cycle Support 2 capsules in AM, 2 Capsules in PM with or without food.

    Cycle Support 1 scoop per day OR Life Support 2 capsules in AM, 2 capsules in PM

    I3C (Indole-3-Carbinol) 200 mg 3 times per day



    Weeks 3 - 4

    POST Cycle Support 2 Capsules in AM, 2 Capsules in PM.

    I3C (Indole-3-Carbinol) 200mg 3 times per day

    -----------------------

    Much easier than what poopy listed, and easier yet is just iForce reversitol........That's what I've decifered from the PCT, steroid, supplement, and IBE and RPN boards......
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynaferd View Post
    Lemme re-phrase.....

    Do I NEED to do all this? ( from poopy's log)

    Week Epistane/Cissus/Poseidon/Mass Fx/Powerfull/Toremifene/HDX2/CEE/AEE/CitMalate

    120mg(10mg 2x 5days)/30mg(10mg morn/20mg p.w.o 2days)/3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)
    230mg(10mg am/10mg pwo/10mg pm for 3 days)40mg (10mg am/10 mg aft/10mg pre&post w/o for 4 days)/3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/20g(5g 4x ed)
    340mg (10mg am/10 mg aft/10mg pre&post w/o)/3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/20g(5g 4x ed)
    440mg (10mg am/10 mg aft/10mg pre&post w/o)/3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/20g(5g 4x ed)/2 caps(530mg 2x for 5 days)/4 caps(spread out for 3 days)/120mg (LAST DAY ONLY)
    5120mg(1days)/90mg(5days)/75mg(1day)/4 caps(spread out)/4 caps(530mg 4x ed)/3960mg(1320mg 3x ed)/
    3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/2gea. respectively before w/o drink and 5g crea mono after w/o
    675mg(5days)/60mg(2days)/4 caps(spread out)/4 caps(530mg 4x ed)/3960mg(1320mg 3x ed)/
    3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/2gea. respectively before w/o drink and 5g crea mono after w/o
    760mg/4 caps(spread out)/4 caps(530mg 4x ed)/3960mg(1320mg 3x ed)/
    3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/2gea. respectively before w/o drink and 5g crea mono after w/o
    830mg(till it was out, like 3 days)/4 caps(spread out)/4 caps(530mg 4x until out)/3960mg(1320mg 3x ed)/
    3600mg(1800mg 2x ed)/2gea. respectively before w/o drink and 5g crea mono after w/o





    -OR- could I survive with ZMA and reversitol (i-force)? I was thinking something different in the first post when I put in AX's aPCT, but whatev's....

    lol how come that looks familiar???




    NO you dont NEED all of that.... BUT you will be able to fully recover AND most likely continue to gain with all that... I obviously did. Added 5lbs during that PCT after gaining 13.5 with Epi and kept all of it continuing to gain for a couple months after too till I lost my job and will to hit the gym...

    Id not leave out the essentials though; Toremifene(or SERM of choice), Hyperdrol-X2(or AI of choice, ie aPCT, 6-OXO ect), and Mass FX maximum strength (or test booster of choice, ie Drive<-- highly suggested, Stoked ect). and Creatine mono(which is so cheap its ridiculous)

    Powerfull, Cissus, Poseidon, Cit malate and an Arginine (AAKG or AEE) are all optional BUT will really make a difference in the gym and helping to sustain gains and make everything else above that much better.

    Anabolic Pump, Pslin(more so then AP) and Prime are all highly suggested as well given their synergy and ability to make cycle like gains with those alone as well and would definately make for a pleasing PCT.

    Im about to run an Epi cycle come very soon and this will be my PCT......

    Toremifene
    Formestane
    Drive
    Prime
    P-slin
    Creatine Monohydrate or Gluconate
    AAKG
    Beta Alanine
    Cit malate
    1-Carboxy or L-Dopa
    Cissus
    I3C
    Mega dosed BCAA
    Reverse

    A lil more then the first one even.... but will be well worth it I know... prob wont even feel like coming off.

    Obviously Im one for the More is MORE concept through PCT, not less is more.... The way I look at it is why A) leave anything to chance on getting unwanted sides in PCT B) why lose strength and muscle gains in PCT and C) why risk wether or not Im actually fully recovered after a weak PCT which will undoubtedly leave me with sides within the coming months of natty/no supplementation.

    The faster you recover(thanks to hormone/HTPA support compounds; Toremifene, Formestane, I3C and Drive) the easier it will be to retain gains and the more workout support supps you have (ie Pslin, Creatine, AAKG, BA, CM and also Prime/Drive) the more likely you are to maintain strength gains... alot harder to hold onto IMO then the muscle itself. Lastly its nice to have the supps to speed recovery since you no longer have anabolics doing the job(BCAA, Reverse, 1-Carboxy, Cissus, and again Prime).

    Great to cover EVERY aspect from EVERY angle... some may call it over kill BUT those guys also arent gaining through PCT like I am..... what will be your choice?


    Disclaimer: Poopies PCT regimen will drain your wallet if your not a smart shopper(BUY IN BULK!!!!!).... but more important then ANYTHING is if your diet, routine and sleep arent adequate NONE of this supplementation OR cycle will be worth a DAMN and be money, time and hard earned gains flushed down the toilet, literally.
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    So I get....... (prices are for my own convenience)

    aPCT ($29)for estrogen,
    Diesel Test 2010 ($33) to boost testosterone, (out of DT hardcore at NP),

    -OR-

    STOKED!($42)...claims to do what the above two do, but probably not as well......

    Z-force ($10)(ZMA),
    DHEA($11) is cheap and I've seen it tossed around here and there,
    and stay with fish oils and milk thistle, and multi-vit....

    I'm scoping out this SERM stuff, but no guarantees I'll be able to get any....

    So would this stuff above be enough to keep things going smoothly like they should after an EPI cycle? And with creatine, should it be everyday like "loading" or just post workout?

    Thanks for your input!!
    True story:

    I give a f**K!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynaferd View Post
    So I get....... (prices are for my own convenience)

    aPCT ($29)for estrogen,
    Diesel Test 2010 ($33) to boost testosterone, (out of DT hardcore at NP),

    -OR-

    STOKED!($42)...claims to do what the above two do, but probably not as well......

    Z-force ($10)(ZMA),
    DHEA($11) is cheap and I've seen it tossed around here and there,
    and stay with fish oils and milk thistle, and multi-vit....

    I'm scoping out this SERM stuff, but no guarantees I'll be able to get any....

    So would this stuff above be enough to keep things going smoothly like they should after an EPI cycle? And with creatine, should it be everyday like "loading" or just post workout?

    Thanks for your input!!
    There is nothing in stoked that can block estrogen. It can boost test plenty well Im sure but not block est.

    I also wouldnt use DHEA during PCT. Its weak, but still a prohormone and suppressive if taken at too high a dose. I would leave it out or evn take it while ON your cycle instead.

    Your first option sounds alot better then the second as well as some creatine and ZMA still wouldnt hurt either.

    I still think a SERM would be better though.
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    So far I have in my cupboard, EPI, Cycle Support, Z-Force, and.........drumroll please........1200mg of Nolva!! Oh yes, it has begun!!

    But now that I am cleaning a 6-oil tank ( imagine tarry-sludge, shoveling to a hose, almost dislocating your hips with every step, sweating your balls off in a suit and respirator 6-7 hours a day, then cleaning up everything before lunch and after work, for a total of 10-ish hrs a day), I won't be starting EPI until this is done and I have ambition after work. I'm still debating on which test-booster and cortisol control to add into the PCT, and am going to order Post Cycle Support as well.

    Any other suggestions? I hate to go broke with my very first cycle ever, and also if something goes awry I won't know what to blame, so I don't want to add a whole lot of "good ideas". But if you experienced folk feel there something I just hafta have, please do tell.

    Thanks again!!
    True story:

    I give a f**K!!
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    bulk creatine monohydrate to run during and after the cycle would be a good cheap idea.

    Other then that you have the basics that are absolutely necessary... again there are a lot of good ideas to add as you say but if your trying really hard to not over complicate things then just leave it as is and your best supplement will be plenty of food and rest.

    Good luck with the work man, sounds tough, ever had your profession featured on "dirty jobs"? well keep us informed on when you start and how it treats you bro!
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    I forgot about creatine, but knew.....Thanks! I'm very anxious to start, since I was hoping to get PCT done by the new year, then if all went well get another cycle in and done by May.


    And I think the 2nd or 3rd episode had Mike Rowe in a 6-oil tank with one of our offices down south, acccording to rumors. All I know is it sux and will be glad when its done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynaferd View Post
    I forgot about creatine, but knew.....Thanks! I'm very anxious to start, since I was hoping to get PCT done by the new year, then if all went well get another cycle in and done by May.


    And I think the 2nd or 3rd episode had Mike Rowe in a 6-oil tank with one of our offices down south, acccording to rumors. All I know is it sux and will be glad when its done.

    Ya creatine is one of the things easily forgotten I know, its def an essential IMO though and when cycled off Its easy to forget to re-include it.

    Some sort of preworkout supp may be beneficial for PCT as well to keep the in gym experience pleasent... RPM or something similar would be my preference.
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    OK, so I took my very first ever Epistane pill today, and am gonna do it like this.....

    20mg the rest of the week
    30mg the next, and starting Cycle support
    40mg with CS,
    40mg with CS,
    if all is going well, 40mg with CS.....

    I'll also be taking a multi vitamin, fish oil, milk thistle, and if I'm poopered from work, AAKG before hitting the gym.

    And then,

    dose the nolvadex low, maybe 20, 20, 10, 10,
    take Z-force, which is the ZMA with tribulus,
    ALRI's Restore, for AI, cortisol control, and test boost,
    plain creatine monohydrate,
    AAKG, pre-workout,
    and stay with milk thistle, fish oil, and multi.

    I'm also aiming for 4,000-4500 calories a day, clean or not, I just wanna grow and worry about slimming down later!!

    And now I gotta trim the body hair so I'll have some pics to make comparisons to in a month or so.
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    make sure to take CS a couple hours apart from your Epi doses... preferably after.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poopypants View Post
    make sure to take CS a couple hours apart from your Epi doses... preferably after.

    Will do!! I've also spaced the epi and milk thistle out a couple hours, too......Thanks!
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    Is it normal for EPI to make you feel goofy?

    It's like not drinking all year, then having a Jager-bomb....except milder. I feel silly and annoy the girlfriend for about an hour after taking it. Happened yesterday and both times today. And I've been hungry like a mo-fo, too. Which is fine for me, but I haven't read much for sides except lethargy, which is why I got the AAKG.

    Can't wait to see what 40 mg does for me!!
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    I give a f**K!!
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    it def can cause some euphoria. I remember the first time I took it I would def feel a lil weird after... one time my heart rate increased alot and I was feeling this wave of energy come across me then went to the gym and destroyed the weights. Its a very fun feel good compound.

    The initial feeling your getting now after taking it will likely fade BUT will return later in the cycle while in the gym and when your getting huge pumps and smashin weights around like nothing.

    This is why its one of my favorites. Just so many positive effects with so little sides and easy to maintain gains.
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    Today was the first day at 50mg, and so far so good. Still no sides (balls, hair, acne, back pumps, lethargy) and haven't stopped making gains!!

    I'm just posting it here so I won't lose track of what day I started and such........
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    Alrighty, for my own notebook here.......Last day was yesterday, and today was the first day of PCT, which was 25mg DHEA in the AM, 25 later tonight, 20mg of liquid nolva, and 10mg of creatine mono.

    2 weeks from now I'll start Restore and Z-force.

    So I went from 237 to 252.5, that's friggin awesome!! I think I overtrained myself, as the last workouts at 50mg I made no gains ( lost 5 pounds on bench, actually). I'll hafta check my notebook to get the exact numbers, but the big three were all up almost 40 pounds.

    I did get back pumps and lethargy ( which sux) a few days after going 50mg, but that is all I experienced for sides.

    After PCT I'm gonna weigh in again and do little log-type thing, and if my bloated pot-belly shrinks even some pics.
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    very, very nice work man! glad it went so well for you!

    gotta love it! Id kick back a lil on your PCT workouts, less frequency and intensity to allow your CNS to recover as well... prob why you actually started declining although you bumped up to 50mg. well good luck lookin forward to the update and pics!
  

  
 

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