[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by DR.D

It looks like an economy size bottle might be needed as well, 500 or 1000 ct? lol

I don't really believe in "Mega-dosing". It just sounds retarded to me, if you have a bottle of pills that say take 3 a day, and you tell me, "Well I'm taking 15 a day, it works better that way."

[Force of Green]

Originally Posted by LakeMountD

I honestly wouldn't go longer than 5-6 week spurts. Just like any other supp that you alter hormones with, you don't want to go too long. Do I have any scientific evidence to back this up? No, I do not, but I am doing this solely off of common sense. Plus since X-Lean has such strong antimicrobial effects, I don't want to see a rebound and have someone get a cold or flu immediately thereafter.

5-6 week spurts of megadosing, right? So, 5-6 weeks.... taper down and then eventually take a break, then come back on?

[DR.D]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

I don't really believe in "Mega-dosing". It just sounds retarded to me, if you have a bottle of pills that say take 3 a day, and you tell me, "Well I'm taking 15 a day, it works better that way."

It's all relative, T-bone. If the pills were 500mg each, instead of 50, would taking 1 pill still be mega dosing even though it would really be like taking 10? 500mg is not required for cortisol antagonism, but these higher doses do favor fat loss.

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by DR.D

It's all relative, T-bone. If the pills were 500mg each, instead of 50, would taking 1 pill still be mega dosing even though it would really be like taking 10? 500mg is not required for cortisol antagonism, but these higher doses do favor fat loss.

I just think that the product should be dosed the way the manufacturer intended it to be and that the recommendation should be the safest possible dose while still being effective. A few manufacturers have put warnings on their bottles of certain supplements saying "Do not consume more than the recommended dosage" which I think is a good thing. Maybe what I am trying to say is that labeling on products should be more descriptive of dosages. If I take cold medicine for instance, I read the bottle first including the warnings and following dosing instructions accordingly. The same thing goes for anything I put in my body including supplements. Maybe other people don't think this way, is it just me?.

[neoborn]

I agree with you but then again when you blanket market a product you cannot take everyone into your perspective, so listening to your body and your results allows you to make decisions on increasing dosages so you actually have an affect from a product you have paid good money for vs not experiencing anything positive at all.

So there are always two sides to every story and different ways or getting the experience you want.

Much Love,

Neoborn

P.S I honestly think there is way too much of the "do more and I'll get / feel more" type thinking in bodybuilding but I think that also comes with personality, it also may be an American "bigger is better" type behaviour i.e. "if a little is good, alot will be amazing"....sigh.

[CHAPS]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

What would a severe amount of fat be in pounds or % ? Just kind of wondering dosage cost vs losses

It's hard to put it into pounds, think of 1lb of fat as 1lb of butter, think of how big 1 lb of butter is now imagine say 3 lbs of straight fat gone from your abs, that is a DRAMATIC difference, that's the type of results i saw.

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by CHAPS

It's hard to put it into pounds, think of 1lb of fat as 1lb of butter, think of how big 1 lb of butter is now imagine say 3 lbs of straight fat gone from your abs, that is a DRAMATIC difference, that's the type of results i saw.

Hmm and at $2.50ish a day at 10-12 a day, not too bad, unless I did my math wrong. I may try a couple bottles, maybe during PCT, to keep cortisol nailed down at the same time.

[Whacked]

Originally Posted by DR.D

Megadosing is not a problem, at least as far as cortisol rebound goes, because these DHEA derivatives do not suppress cortisol to a great extent (Relora does to a degree), they simple antagonize it with an oppositional effect. Just like megadosing an antihistamine when you're sick, histamine levels don't rebound when you stop, if anything receptors are upregulated which will attenuate itself once you quit, so it's all good.

What you really have to watch for are sides while you're dosing. If you experience symptoms of insufficient cortisol, it will be once the dose gets too high, not afterward, though I would still ramp down once you stop just so there is no drastic immune rebound. This supp really boosts immunity, and sudden withdrawal might trigger a latent illness (like a cold or flu) that was being indefinitely suspended by the super low cortisol expression.

Thanks for the response DrD but I am confused about comment above. What's "all good" mmean with regard to upregulating cort receptors? That's probably the last thing anyone would want to do, correct? It's no different that upregulating the nasty fat-accumuating A2 receptors in response to post-clen use. Sure, while ON clen, you burn fat like a champ, then you get off and many people end up fatter than pre-clen due to the upregulation spoken of here. Thanks for the clarification.

[thesinner]

Originally Posted by wojo

ok so no stiff joints?

Joint issues can be caused by glucurcortoids. I don't see how antagonizing them would cause joint issues.

[hill5673]

Would it be a bad idea to run Xlean at 6 caps during a PP cycle?

[Movin_weight]

Originally Posted by Whacked

Thanks for the response DrD but I am confused about comment above. What's "all good" mmean with regard to upregulating cort receptors? That's probably the last thing anyone would want to do, correct? It's no different that upregulating the nasty fat-accumuating A2 receptors in response to post-clen use. Sure, while ON clen, you burn fat like a champ, then you get off and many people end up fatter than pre-clen due to the upregulation spoken of here. Thanks for the clarification.

this was what i was trying to get an answer for an you put it into much better words... if the drug has a strong antagonistic effect on cort receptors then it will surely cause sensitization, and is definitely not something you want... even with a slow taper over a couple weeks i would still think there would be come excess cort binding and an affinity for fat gain when a person discontinues this protocol

[DR.D]

Originally Posted by Whacked

Thanks for the response DrD but I am confused about comment above. What's "all good" mmean with regard to upregulating cort receptors? That's probably the last thing anyone would want to do, correct? It's no different that upregulating the nasty fat-accumuating A2 receptors in response to post-clen use. Sure, while ON clen, you burn fat like a champ, then you get off and many people end up fatter than pre-clen due to the upregulation spoken of here. Thanks for the clarification.

I see where I should have been more specific. If cortisol levels rebounded, then yes, more receptor spells greater expression. This does not occur though so it's good because in that case more receptor creates a diluted effect for what cortisol is there.

In reality, I have honestly never seen any crash or rebound from even sudden discontinuances of cortisol antagonists.

[wojo]

Originally Posted by thesinner

Joint issues can be caused by glucurcortoids. I don't see how antagonizing them would cause joint issues.

huh? i was refering to repressing cort and stiff joints..D set it straight

[neoborn]

Originally Posted by hill5673

Would it be a bad idea to run Xlean at 6 caps during a PP cycle?

I don't forsee any problems there at all. This should be fine.

Much Love,

Neoborn

[Force of Green]

I've been continuing to dose the X-Lean very high and I've experienced no sides whatsoever and I'm into week 2.5 (almost 3)... abs are literally bricks... and the bottom layer of fat is melting off. I wish I was taking pictures during this whole thing... it's NUTS! I am adding in Retain 2 because of the Relora.

My guess is that Retain 2 (250 mg proprietary blend) has 200 mg Relora, 25 mg triol, and 25 mg 7-keto.

I'm running this for another 4 weeks:

2 X-Lean and 1 Retain 2
***few hours later
2 X-Lean
*** few hours later
2 X-Lean and 1 Retain 2
***
2 X-Lean
***
1 X-Lean and 2 Retain 2
***
2 X-Lean

bedtime (gamma hydroxy butyrate)
3.5 hours later wakeup
1 X-Lean and more cap of gamma-o
wakeup
Repeat*

I'll then switch to this protocol after 4 more weeks
Monday-Friday
morning:
2 X-Lean and 1 Retain 2

Early Afternoon
1 X-Lean and 1 Retain 2

Evening

1 X-Lean and 2 Retain 2

Workout days I'll add 2 more caps of X-Lean pre and post

Weekends I'll stick with just Retain 2 protocol and 1 X-Lean first thing in the morning

After maybe 16 weeks, I'll take off of these products and just take Relora to get the DHEA deratives out of my system and refresh myself. The Relora will maintain properly low cortisol levels and my enzymes will clear for metabolizing the bAET, 7-keto, and the beta-OH-DHEA.