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Fragment & Grunt: The story of a biochemical relationship

Grunt76

Well-known member
:blink: I dunno... That's the title mkay?

So I got lucky enough to be chosen by IBE to test their little hGH fragment. This is an interesting little peptide. It is 14 amino acids long, compared to 191 for the whole human Growth Hormone molecule. It is just the part of the GH molecule that provides the fatloss properties of hGH.

Here's a little picture on the IBE website that shows which part of the molecule this fragment is: Invalid Link Removed

OK so it's 14 AA long, and hGH is 191 AA long, or about 7.33% of the whole hGH molecule, which means that 1mg of the fragment is as much of it as you will find in 13mg of hGH. I received 6mg of the fragment, roughly equivalent to 82mg of hGH in fatloss terms, in purely theoretical terms.

Since hGH is 3IU per mg, I have received as much fragment as one would find in 245 IUs of hGH. Since I will run it for 30 days, I will receive as much of it as if I were doing 8IUs of hGH every day. Well I don't know too much about GH, but I do know that 4IU is a good dose, so 8 should be kinda up there in the realms of the courageous and wealthy few.

In theory, the results should be pretty obvious. I will be diluting each 2mg vial of the peptide into 2ml of BW and injecting 0.2ml every day, for a total of 30 days.

This will begin tomorrow. :woohoo:

I would like to thank IBE for the opportunity to test such a novel and exciting compound.
 
Nice one Grunt....

Good preliminary info....

Will you be doing before and after BF%, measurements, weight, the whole nine yards? Any photos?

I am very interested in this peptide, especially the possibilities when combined with GHRP-6/Hexarelin/ghrelin maybe in slightly smaller doses to 'amplify' the fat metabolizing properties of the GH released by these compounds, while increasing LBM. The recomp possibilities seem quite promising.

Looking forward to this one...oh, and I love the title!!!!
 
I'll be going about 7 yards... ;)

Measurements including bodyweight will be taken at the beginning and at the end. Workouts will be logged, as well as diet. I will post total energy expended and absorbed on a daily basis as well as macronutrient breakdown. The complete food journal will be available at fitday, I will provide a link tomorrow for that. That's as far as I'll go because I don't have a digital camera or calipers, but consistend measurements and thorough logging should give a pretty accurate idea of what's going on, body composition wise.
 
Awesome, I was thinking of running this with an anabolic for a recomp..lower doses over a longer period of time.

I thought I read something that said the fragment was better at smaller doses?
 
Yeh it is actually. The studies mentioned in another thread to assess proper doses had dosages between 250mcg and 1mg ED and the most effective dose among those was 250mcg. So 200mcg it will be, looks like a pretty fair bet. If it turns out to be equally potent as 8iu, that should mean SOMETHING... :)
 
I don't know who this "Grunt" guy is but, ... so far this looks interesting ... I guess I'll follow along. ;)
 
Day 1: You'd think inserting a hollow needle into a tire...

...would cause instant deflation. But alas no. :blink:

200mcg was injected this morning. Test subject felt nothing.

This is a rest day.

Measurements at Day 1

Bodyweight: 229.5 lbs
Left forearm: 14.5"
Left upper arm: 18.25"
Left deltoid: 19.5"
Around bellybutton: 37"
Left thigh: 27.5"
Left calf: 18"

Calories
Expended: 3211
Absorbed: 3261 ( 36% fat, 23% carbs, 41% protein = 322g )

Here's my fitday: Invalid Link Removed
 
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well geez! im glad you're on my board Grunt. Not only do you generate a huge member invite to the board but I couldn't have thought out a better statment about the growth fragment myself and i run the board...lol
Grunt76 said:
:blink: I dunno... That's the title mkay?

So I got lucky enough to be chosen by IBE to test their little hGH fragment. This is an interesting little peptide. It is 14 amino acids long, compared to 191 for the whole human Growth Hormone molecule. It is just the part of the GH molecule that provides the fatloss properties of hGH.

Here's a little picture on the IBE website that shows which part of the molecule this fragment is: Invalid Link Removed

OK so it's 14 AA long, and hGH is 191 AA long, or about 7.33% of the whole hGH molecule, which means that 1mg of the fragment is as much of it as you will find in 13mg of hGH. I received 6mg of the fragment, roughly equivalent to 82mg of hGH in fatloss terms, in purely theoretical terms.

Since hGH is 3IU per mg, I have received as much fragment as one would find in 245 IUs of hGH. Since I will run it for 30 days, I will receive as much of it as if I were doing 8IUs of hGH every day. Well I don't know too much about GH, but I do know that 4IU is a good dose, so 8 should be kinda up there in the realms of the courageous and wealthy few.

In theory, the results should be pretty obvious. I will be diluting each 2mg vial of the peptide into 2ml of BW and injecting 0.2ml every day, for a total of 30 days.

This will begin tomorrow. :woohoo:

I would like to thank IBE for the opportunity to test such a novel and exciting compound.
 
Hm... Is that... Sorta... Wink-wink... A reminder that ibeforums would be good place to copy my log? ;)

Yah, I'mma do it man. :)

[EDIT: Now I remember why it's not there yet... Your board is being rebuilt...]
 
so i dont know if you have seen my log? but i had a question. does it make a difference if i inject in the morning or evening? does it work like pgf-2 where it kills fatty cells, then you need to be active to remove the waste?
 
pb2xtreme1 said:
so i dont know if you have seen my log? but i had a question. does it make a difference if i inject in the morning or evening? does it work like pgf-2 where it kills fatty cells, then you need to be active to remove the waste?
No, but it does release the contents of the filled fat cells though, so yes injecting preworkout might be best. I dunno, perhaps injecting at bedtime when not training seems like a good idea... Add some slow-digesting protein and you have a night-time meal feeding your muscle...
 
pb2xtreme1 said:
so i dont know if you have seen my log? but i had a question. does it make a difference if i inject in the morning or evening? does it work like pgf-2 where it kills fatty cells, then you need to be active to remove the waste?
Yeah it does not cause topical fat cell apotosis but instea dit has been found to increase fat oxidation, lipolysis and it possibly increases energy expenditure
 
pb2xtreme1 said:
so best in the morning.... cool! have been doing it in the eveing for the past 10 days. today will be different!
I'm thinking of doing half preworkout and half at bedtime with just protein.
 
Day 2: Rest again

I waited for the second attempt at shipment of my protein, which got to me at exactly the perfect time to make it impossible for me to train today :rant:

I would have shot 100mcg preworkout and 100mcg before bedtime, but I'll just do the whole 200mcg right before bed after finishing this post.

Calories
Expended: 3107
Absorbed: 3268 (34% fat, 31% carbs, 35% protein = 271g)
 
pb2xtreme1 said:
grunt.... how do you know how many calories you expend?
It's a calculation of BMR and activity level. Fitday.com has a pretty good algorithm. I use the number it gives.
 
Grunt76 said:
It's a calculation of BMR and activity level. Fitday.com has a pretty good algorithm. I use the number it gives.
Grunt I am not so sure about Fitday's BMR calculations it has always seemed a bit excessive.

If you go here Invalid Link Removed

or here Invalid Link Removed

Could you say if you get a different figure as I get quite a bit less using the Harris-Benedict equations compared to the Fitday equation (snot sure how they calculate it)
 
The Godfather said:
Grunt I am not so sure about Fitday's BMR calculations it has always seemed a bit excessive.

If you go here Invalid Link Removed

or here Invalid Link Removed

Could you say if you get a different figure as I get quite a bit less using the Harris-Benedict equations compared to the Fitday equation (snot sure how they calculate it)
You're right it does seem excessive. OTOH for a bodybuilder it just might be perfect, accounting for all the tissue rebuilding we undergo on a daily basis, which isn't accounted for in the "calorie expenditure" for either BMR or activites... :think:

But yes it does seem excessive, as I have had a hard time losing fat, gauging my diet by fitday's standard. But then again I have low testosterone, so it's more of a confuser than an informer... :wtf:

Hm, but you're so right. I also thought that 3100 cals for a totally inactive day was on the high side of things... Reps to you my man, you've just tremendously helped me in my dieting endeavor­. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. RE-EDIT: It'll have to wait, I have to spread some around...
 
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Day 3: Back & Biceps

Injection of 200mcg was done immediately prior to grabbing the bicycle and going to the gym to train. More on this later.

WORKOUT
Elapsed Exercise
10:20 Dumbell Rowing 8x105, 5x115, 9x125
20:00 Wide-Grip Chin-Up 8x229, 5x229, 3x229
31:24 Body Rowing 8x229, 8x229x 8x229 (6s TUT)
41:24 Reverse Hyperextension 8x35, 8x35, 8x35
47:44 EZ Bar curl 5x127, 3x137
56:56 Concentration curl 8x30, 8x30 (6s TUT)

Bodyweight = 227lbs

All sets done @ 180s rest in between. Black=Reps done. Green=Weight too light, set stopped @ reps. Red=Weight too heavy, reps not all done.

Workout duration: 64 minutes
Aerobics: 30 minutes bicycle ride, 30 minutes 15% incline walk @ 3.6 Km/h for 375cals


Calories
Expended: 3,712
Absorbed: 2,629 (13% fat, 33% carbs, 54% protein = 342g)

Thoughts & Comments

Dammit, I'm hungry. I am burning about 1,400 calories less than I previously thought on a training day. Being 1,000 below that means I'm just 1,700 cals short of my previous "maintenance" level, which I was hitting fairly regularly even a couple days ago... :o

So today I dosed the whole 200mcg preworkout. I ended up sweating much more than I usually do, and felt very driven, energetic, powerful in the gym. On top of that, I'd had only about 850 calories before training whereas I usually have about 1500 before gym time.

This fragment works by freeing up fatty acids from adipocytes. For this to be successful, a number of conditions must be met. Firstly, there must be enough energy expenditure to use up all this freed up fuel. If you've just had a big meal, injecting the Fragment will only add to the stuff in the bloodstream and the fat will end up redepositing. Secondly, it is a well-documented fact that insulin hinders lipolysis. And because it does so for GH-induced lipolysis, then it must be equally true of Fragment-induced lipolysis. This means that it should not be dosed shortly before or after an insulin spike happens. Thirdly, because it is fats that we are freeing into the bloodstream, ideally the fat content of the meal prior to dosing would be low.

IMO reuniting these conditions should be the recipe for optimal results from the Fragment. Today I dosed preworkout and I had a pretty serious energy boost. From tomorrow on, I'll do 100mcg preworkout and also 100mcg at bedtime after eating some protein, such as for example a can of tuna.
 
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Re: Day 3: Back & Biceps

Grunt76 said:
This fragment works by freeing up fatty acids from adipocytes. For this to be successful, a number of conditions must be met. Firstly, there must be enough energy expenditure to use up all this freed up fuel. If you've just had a big meal, injecting the Fragment will only add to the stuff in the bloodstream and the fat will end up redepositing. Secondly, it is a well-documented fact that insulin hinders lipolysis. And because it does so for GH-induced lipolysis, then it must be equally true of Fragment-induced lipolysis. This means that it should not be dosed shortly before or after an insulin spike happens. Thirdly, because it is fats that we are freeing into the bloodstream, ideally the fat content of the meal prior to dosing would be low.

Sounds like an ideal time for GXR and aerobics.
 
Hex(3 months-3 weeks) has been treating me real good! Now onto the Ecto for 3 months in a week:woohoo:



OT: Hey Grunt are the ED* Meds working at all for you:icon_lol: ?!?



*erectile dysfunction:twisted:
 
EEmain said:
Hex(3 months-3 weeks) has been treating me real good! Now onto the Ecto for 3 months in a week:woohoo:



OT: Hey Grunt are the ED* Meds working at all for you:icon_lol: ?!?



*erectile dysfunction:twisted:
Nah they make my prostate hurt. And I completely forgot what to do with an erection if I ever got one... It's been so long... :blink:
 
Day 4: Chest & Triceps.

Workout
Time Exercise
09:40 Flat Barbell Bench Press 7x245, 4x265, 2x275
19:20 Incline Dumbell Press 8x95, 4x100, 2x100
30:44 Cable crossover 7x75, 8x60, 8x60 (6s TUT)
42:08 Incline Dumbell Flye 8x35, 7x35, 8x25 (6s TUT)
51:48 Close-Grip Bench 8x165, 5x175, 4x195
59:24 Reverse-Grip Cable Extension 8x60, 5x60 (6s TUT)

Workout duration: 74 minutes
Bodyweight: 226½

Aerobics: 1 hour bicycle ride.

Calories
Expended: 3,741
Absorbed: 3,411 (27% fat, 39% carbs, 35% protein = 295g)

Thoughts & Observations
So today I pinned 100mcg just before leaving for the gym. I will dose the other 100mcg when I hit the sack later.

The above workout was one of the worst in my life. I mean, one of the 3 worst ever, easy. And I've been doing this for 15 years. For some reason, I had no drive, no energy, nothing. I almost fell asleep between 2 sets of incline DB presses right there on the bench. WTF.

Besides that, I found out that I'm actually 1.5" shorter than I thought. After I stopped growing, I measured 5'10¾" and today I measured at 5'9¼"... WTF!!??? Maybe my spinal discs are all compressed up? One thing's for sure, 227lbs at 5'11" and 5'9" isn't the same thing... I'm bigger than I thought... Shorter, especially. Displeased, I am.
 
Cottage cheese?????
I don't think there is any Hg in that!

I've had a few of those workouts man. Usually that was a Monday workout. I stopped those.
Maybe you need some Amp.
 
Yeh the whole eating way below maintenance is actually pretty new to me... Before, I use to switch to 2x ED lifting and the fat melted off like snow in summer... No more alas.

The thing is, I eat all-organic. I haven't found any organic cottage cheese around my place yet... :( Maybe when I move July 1st I'll get lucky... The cheesy way... :p
 
Day 5: Rest

Calories
Expended: 2518
Absorbed: 2328 (23% fat, 38% carbs, 39% protein = 218g)

Dosage
100mcg after a low-fat meal
100mcg after my night-time tuna right before bed

Thoughts & Observations
Nothing to report. I had again fairly major lethargy today around 2:30 to 4:00 PM, same time as yesterday. I currently believe this lethargy is caused by my increased intake of morning coffee, which happens at the same time of the day, whereas my dosage varies especially on non-training days. So far so good.
 
I have been following a couple of other logs and they have reported similar info regarding the lethargy.
 
Re: Day 3: Back & Biceps

Grunt76 said:
If you've just had a big meal, injecting the Fragment will only add to the stuff in the bloodstream and the fat will end up redepositing.

I was under the impression that GH inhibited lipogenesis in addition to causing lipolysis, so the body was less likely to store fat. I could be wrong. Regardless, your advice is sound, especially for those of us looking to drop some fat.
 
Re: Day 3: Back & Biceps

jrkarp said:
I was under the impression that GH inhibited lipogenesis in addition to causing lipolysis, so the body was less likely to store fat. I could be wrong. Regardless, your advice is sound, especially for those of us looking to drop some fat.
Yeh well insulin also inhibits lipolysis while triggering lipogenesis, locking up the adipocytes from releasing fatty acids. So if you release the fatty acids then eat something that gives you significant insulin release, you haven't helped yourself much at all.
 
Re: Day 3: Back & Biceps

Grunt76 said:
Yeh well insulin also inhibits lipolysis while triggering lipogenesis, locking up the adipocytes from releasing fatty acids. So if you release the fatty acids then eat something that gives you significant insulin release, you haven't helped yourself much at all.

Right. You are basically cancelling out the benefits of the fragment.
 
Day 6 (Yesterday): Legs

I have pretty terrible knees. Childhood injuries made sure I'll have problems with them forever. I hadn't been doing squats, the pain was just too much. Well today (yesterday) for the first time in 2 years, I did squats! :woohoo:

Now of course today my knees are like :wtf: but I still entertain hope to squat every other legs workout. My quads are already sore, which is something I had much difficulty achieving while doing only the leg press. :)

WORKOUT
Time . Exercise
10:48 ATG Squat 225x6, 225x5, 225x10
21:00 Sissy Squat 25x4, 0x8, 5x4
31:00 SLDL Toes Raised 175x8, 185x8, 195x7
38:36 Leg Curl 100x3, 85x4 (6s TUT)
46:12 Leg Extension 80x8, 90x6 (6s TUT)
56:12 Calf Raise 300x18, 300x15 (6s TUT)

Bodyweight 228,5
Rest between sets = 180s.

Aerobics: 30 minute treadmill walk @15% incline, 3.6 Km/H, good for 378 calories

Other physical activity: 45 minute bicycle ride.

CALORIES
Expended: 3,879
Absorbed: 3,225 (25% fat, 35% carbs, 40% protein = 306g)

OBSERVATIONS
Dosed the Fragment @ 100mcg preworkout. Had pretty major lethargy hit about 2-2.5 hours later. I'll keep a tab on when the lethargy hits me after dosing the Fragment to see if there is some consistency. I was at the tail end of my post-weights aerobics, so maybe the lethargy wasn't Fragment-related. I forgot to dose the other 100mcg at bedtime as per my planned protocol. Oh well, I'll pin the whole 200mcg preworkout today and do 100mcg more at bedtime. Just to see. I had the feeling that 200mcg preworkout gave me a major energy boost, whereas 100mcg doesn't seem to do much except maybe some lethargy a few hours later. We'll see how that works out today.
 
Day 7: Arms & Abs

WORKOUT
Time . Exercise
09:40 Close-Grip Bench Extension 185x8, 205x8, 215x8
16:20 Kick-Back 45x8, 55x4
25:32 Overhead DB Extension 20x8,30x5 (6s TUT)
35:12 Dumbell Curl Seated 50x8, 55x4, 60x2
49:00 Supinated Concentration Curl 30x8, 35x7 (6s TUT)
54:15 Ball Crunch 15,12
59:30 Reverse Crunch 10, 3

Bodyweight 227,5

Workout Duration: 64 minutes

Rest between sets = 180s

Aerobics: 30 minute treadmill walk @15% incline, 3.6 Km/H, good for 365 calories

Other physical activity: 30 minute bicycle ride.

CALORIES
Expended: 3,683
Absorbed: 3,042 (10% fat, 51% carbs, 39% protein = 294g)

OBSERVATIONS
Completely forgot to dose the fragment before the workout. Good workout all the same. Will dose the whole 200mcg at bedtime. Oh well.
 
Your memory is failing you Grunt! LOL
Perhaps some memory enhancing supps are in order? Nah, you would just forget to take them! :nutkick:


JK bro. Great log so far.
 
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