Methyl Cobalamin

[bioman]

Methylcobalamin was administered to my teenage hampsters who have a history or allergies and allergy related inflammation:hammer:

Injections were painless (these hampsters can communicate telepathically:blink: ) compared to typical vet grade B12. Energy increases were noted within an hour of injection. Typically vet grade cyanocobalamin takes at least 1-2 full days to kick in.

Allergies have been non-existent and this is the main criteria for evaluating B12 effectiveness in the hampster volunteers as they were not in a state of B12 deficiency prior to the study.

So if you have teenage hampsters who dislike injection pain and like a solid energy boost with overlapping benefits for allergies..try out some methylcobalamin.

Once you go methylco..you never go back to cyano :study:

 

[bull-terrier]

Sounds really good! Now, would the greatly renowned researcher be willing to share with us the dosage and frequency used?

Thanks!

 

[bioman]

As the hampsters weigh in at 190 pounds, they are given 1 mL every 3 days. Dose may be cut back as subjects are currently experiencing insomnia which may or may not be related to methylB12 administration.

 

[Nullifidian]

What time of day were the hamsters given their 1mL injection?

 

[bioman]

Usually between 10 am and noon.

IBE states that 2 mL given before bedtime will improve sleep.

 

[jmh80]

I bet those dammn kids are bouncing off the walls! Fun time for parents, huh?
:icon_lol:

 

[bioman]

Well these are orphaned teenage hampsters.

 

[bull-terrier]

Found this:

<quote>
Some patients respond so well to B-12 that they become hyperactive-nervous and excitable-but this too can usually be resolved by reducing the dose. Because of this excitatory effect, I recommend that B-12 be administered in the morning, so that it will not interfere with sleep.</quote>

More interesting reading here:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=120081

However, what is being discussed is not the MeB12. I am thinking that since Methylcobalamin is the "Active" form, that just like T3 -vs- T4 for the thyroid, with T3 being the active form and much more potent (aprox 2-5 times more), that less Methyl-B12 is needed for good results. Just maybe...

 

[bioman]

Dosed at 0.5 mL yesterday. Sleep was good although it did take a while to get there. This has been the pattern since well before b12 administration.

Allergy/inflammation is reduced today..both sinuses open which is unusual.

Energy level good. Last night's workout was very good.

No other effects observed.

 

[bull-terrier]

Sleep was good...
Allergy/inflammation is reduced...
Energy level good.
workout was very good.

Update please? Anything new to report?

 

[bioman]

Nothing new lately. Energy levels are still good but I have not dosed again since I am just chilling out and recouping.

Once I start working out next week, i will resume dosing..but so far it feels like I need to use this less often then cyanocobalamin.

 

[riskarb]

Bio -- how does it compare with dibencozide? [cyano redox couple]. The methyl sounds great, thanks. BTW, you may want to look into Delta Tocotrienol for allergies/inflammatory issues.

 

[bioman]

No idea on the benzo.

I already use mixed tocotrienols for inflammation. For the most part, it is no longer a problem since I started using B12, but mixed tocs and selenium are a great addition. The tocotrienols really improve my skin.

 

[bull-terrier]

Thanks for the update bioman! This stuff sure looks promising.

 

[Nullifidian]

How often would you recommend using this?

E3D? E4D? EW?

My diet has rendered it difficult for me to focus and think clearly, and certain ... compounds ... I may or may not be taking shoot my sleep patterns to hell. I ordered some methylB12 from IBE and it should be arriving soon.

 

[bioman]

I can only guess, but I think you need less of this stuff than standard B12 because there is no need for it to convert. I could easily be wrong..maybe it is all utilized faster, who knows.

I am going by feel and I still feel pretty amped from my last shot several days ago. I don't want to overdo it and get antsy or insomnia.

 

[daniel35]

since it is a methyl couldn't it be adminstered orally with a higher degree of absorbtion than non-methyl?

 

[wideguy]

When you say amped? I'm wondering if you could compare it to something else like a stim ie. ephedrine, caffeine, sulbutiamine, green tea, anything like that. BTW did you ever feel anyting from regular b-12? BTW, nice log so far thanks.

 

[Nullifidian]

since it is a methyl couldn't it be adminstered orally with a higher degree of absorbtion than non-methyl?

Dude, it's vitamin B12, not a steroid. Methyl-B12 has aboslutely positively no relation to 17aa-methyllation of steroids.

 

[Grunt76]

I've been using it too and am liking it a lot. Last few shots were 1cc. I am now using it twice a week, seems to be good this way. Effects are added energy, concentration, general well-being.

 

[bioman]

By "amped" I just mean better overall energy. It is in no way a stimulant type of feeling.

Allergy season is going into full swing here in AZ, so far so good. I have next to no symptoms and only sneezed a few times when I was hanging out under a heavily pollinating pine tree in my in-laws back yard this weekend. Normally I would be a basket case.

 

[wideguy]

Very cool.

 

[myfathersboy]

My research subject has been using .5 ML EOD.... interesting sensation, it's not been a stimulant effect but more of a very subtle inclination to do tasks that would usually seem more daunting, hard to explain. I have more moxy at the end of a long day.

I might up the dosage to 1Ml this week, just for kicks...(subject is 265 lbs)

 

[CRUNCH]

Bump...I gotta get some of this!! Thanks Bioman!

 

[bull-terrier]

I ordered this stuff, and my test subject #1 is in heaven! Best B-12 injectable have encountered so far. The allergy symptom reduction alone, makes this stuff more then worth it. Noted energy increase, feeling of well being, endurance increase, clearer mind. The test subject has pernicious anemia (does not have the ability to absorb B-12 from food or oral vitamins), and has been on cyanocobalamin for one year. Response to IBE methylcobalamin is much better, and no sick feeling is noted aprox. one hour after injection, as was the problem with cyano B-12. It rocks!

Other test subjects are now willingly lining up, so my study is growing and widening considerably. Injections of 500, 700, and 1000mcg have been used ED. Appears to be getting better as level builds up in the test subjects. Total test subjects = 4 (soon to be 7, and who knows where it will end.) Hmm... that's a lot of hamster cages to clean!

 

[Grunt76]

Hm.... My dose of 1000mcg 1x or 2x wk suddenly seems tiny.

 

[Beowulf]

I'm gonna start this next week. It could be a good PCT add on too.

 

[doggzj]

I'm very interested in this, and it might be soon time to start pinning. hmmmm

Keep us updated guys

 

[CRUNCH]

Got my vial yesterday, first shot in subject #1 about 10 minutes ago. A tad sore in the injection area.

 

[Grunt76]

Allright so this is my 3rd day of 1ml ED and OMFG.... :blink::jaw::run::hammer: I feel soooooooooooooo gooooooood

Are there words? It's like it had been a missing part and now I'm whole again.

I use to feel completely worn out after my workout, with barely enough energy to cook my food. Today I was zipping about my place, happily cleaning and stuff, I feel like the energizer bunny :woohoo:

 

[bioman]

How's everyone's allergies?

Mine are pretty much non-existent unless I forget to dose for a week or more. It is peak allergy season here in AZ.

 

[CRUNCH]

How's everyone's allergies?

Mine are pretty much non-existent unless I forget to dose for a week or more. It is peak allergy season here in AZ.

Mine have pretty much been non-existant the past couple days as well and the pollen counts are supposed to be extremely high in my area right now.

Energy has been good too, I'm definitely feeling better on the normal lack of sleep I get.

 

[Grunt76]

Mine have pretty much been non-existant the past couple days as well and the pollen counts are supposed to be extremely high in my area right now.

Energy has been good too, I'm definitely feeling better on the normal lack of sleep I get.

What's your dosage like?

 

[CRUNCH]

Did 1000mcg the past three days, may stay with this as I've noted a bump in my appetite as well.

 

[bull-terrier]

The allergy relief from this meB12 is simply incredible. Test subjects have never known such allergy relief, and every day it just seems to get better. Sticking with 1000mcg (1cc) ED for now. Also the antidepressant action is amazing too. Test subject #1 and #2 both have heart conditions, and an unexpected side has been a marked decrease in cardiac symptoms. Amazing...

 

[jmh80]

Some questions...

IM or Sub-Q?

27g or 'slin?

Time of doseage? I've read AM for energy but right before bed for sleep quality???

 

[CRUNCH]

IM and 'slin

 

[bull-terrier]

Some questions...

IM or Sub-Q?

27g or 'slin?

Time of doseage? I've read AM for energy but right before bed for sleep quality???

IM via 29-gauge and 30-gauge 1/2 inch 1cc insulin syringe.
(Intramuscular gives quickest availability. Sub-Q gives longer availability.) Morning, as the initial increased energy boost interferes with the sleep of some, and that energy boost is nice to have during active hours.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

Some questions...

IM or Sub-Q?

27g or 'slin?

Time of doseage? I've read AM for energy but right before bed for sleep quality???

I use the a 1cc-1/2 inch-29G dart for IM. It penetrates deeper. I take 1cc per week. IMO it's good stuff.

 

[bioman]

Well I'm glad to hear I'm not crazy and this stuff works for allergies..nobody believed me at first. lol

Yea alternative medicine!

 

[doggzj]

So Bioman, how are you dosing for reduced allergies? I'm seriously considering this, and I'm basically a pinning noob. Most of the people here are going IM, are you also?

Thanks in advance

 

[bioman]

With regular cyanocobalamin it seemed to be better pinned IM. It is a rate limited form that must be broken down Methylb12 seems to be better pinned subQ since it is not rate limited. This keeps it circulating for longer.

I only seem to need to pin my rats every 3-5 days, although you may want to pin yours for several days or EOD at first to build it up in their system and alleviate symptoms. Squeak squeak.

 

[doggzj]

mmmmm cheese :burger:

 

[Beowulf]

Just ordered pins. I'll be starting this next week.

 

[bull-terrier]

With regular cyanocobalamin it seemed to be better pinned IM. It is a rate limited form that must be broken down Methylb12 seems to be better pinned subQ since it is not rate limited. This keeps it circulating for longer.

I only seem to need to pin my rats every 3-5 days, although you may want to pin yours for several days or EOD at first to build it up in their system and alleviate symptoms. Squeak squeak.

Thanks for sharing your results and insights. Sounds like I'm ready to move to subQ now too, as it seems to be well built up in my test subjects.

NOTE!
One thing to point out, if you don't already know it, while administering MethylB12 make sure to add some Folic Acid and also some B6.

Folic Acid:
Administration of methylcobalamin doses greater than 10 µg daily, may produce a haematological response in patients with folate (Folic Acid) deficiency. But, if large doses of folate are taken continuously, blood concentrations of methylcobalamin may be interfered with and reduced.

B6:
Absorption of cobalamin is impaired by vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) deficiency. Do a little research and don't OD your test subjects on the B6 (More than 200 mg per day may lead to peripheral neuropathy [nerve pain in the extremities]).

Contraceptives:
Serum concentrations may be decreased by concurrent administration of oral contraceptives.

Toxicology & Treatment of Overdose:
Vitamin B-12 (Methylcobalamin) has excellent tolerability and no known toxicity. Treatment is unlikely to be needed in cases of over dose. Also, there is no upper intake limit or maximum daily dose for methylcobalamin. Experiments have tested dosages of 25mg per day and no serious side effects were observed.

Storage and Stability:
Methylcobalamin loses its activity when exposed to light, oxygen and acid or alkali-containing environments, but is stable to heat. Injectable vials should be stored in a refrigerator. Do not freeze.

Drug Interactions and Antagonists:
Absorption of cobalamin is impaired by:
-alcohol
-vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) deficiency
-cholestyramine
-para-aminosalicylic acid
-colchicine
-neomycin
-the oral biguanides
-metformin
-histamine H2 receptor antagonists (cimetidine, ranitidine, etc)
-phenformin and possibly potassium chloride
-A number of anticonvulsants - phenobarbitone, primidone, phenytoin and ethylphenacemide - can alter the metabolism of cobalamin in the cerebrospinal fluid and lead to neuropsychotic disturbances.
-Several substituted amide, lactone and lactam analogues of cyanocobalamin compete with binding sites on intrinsic factor and lead to depressed absorption of the vitamin.
-Nitrous oxide also interferes with cobalamin metabolism.

 

[bioman]

Asacol and Sulfasalazine also greatly hinder absorption of B12,B6 and folic acid. Anyone with intestinal disorders should be supplementing with these daily.

 

[SD1959]

I've got a LARGE bottle of b-12 with co-factors from a popular vet supply as well as a couple small, free bottles from a med office. Is this form that much better? Not much $$$ lost if I waste what I've already got. Opinions (though I think I already know the answer!!!)?
Sd

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I am very interested in this as my dog has human allergies.

 

[bioman]

The vet stuff is fine. It may sting a tad more because it will have a little more BA in it, but the cofactors/other Bvitamins in it are an added plus IMO.

 

[bull-terrier]

I've got a LARGE bottle of b-12 with co-factors from a popular vet supply as well as a couple small, free bottles from a med office. Is this form that much better? Not much $$$ lost if I waste what I've already got. Opinions (though I think I already know the answer!!!)?
Sd

In my opinion, after my being on Cyanocobalamin for a year under doctor's supervision, and now on Methylcobalamin still under doctor's supervision, there is a huge difference in the way Methylcobalamin performs. Cyanoncobalamin works, but not nearly as well, and there simply is not as many benefits. I have 7 lab hamsters who’s results are looking to be the same as mine. MethylB12 wins hands down, in my opinion.

Currently testing subQ injection -vs- IM. Even if subQ does not pan out (but I think it will) and meB12 must be administered OD via IM, it will still be the winner, in my opinion.

It would be a very nice perk if the meB12 came with the complex of the other B vitamins, but that would also complicate and limit the dosing margin, as to not OD on some of the more critical B's.