Dancing with 'tropins: BodyWizard's GH experiment

BodyWizard

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The goal: to discover how much of my current condition can be reversed, repaired or otherwise corrected by enhancing levels of growth hormone (GH) and / or insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1).

The disclaimer: I talk about challenges & difficulties in here, some of it alluded to in other threads - not to weep in public, but to inform the reader of real stuff impacting this effort. None of this makes me special - it makes me ordinary: everyone struggles, so everyone understands how it can get. Without this element, the value of this effort will be lessened. Please bear with me - I promise not to cry!


The SYMPTOMS
For starters, listed below are the indicators offered by RedBaron of ‘Growth Hormone Deficiency Syndrome’:

· Increase in fat.
· Decrease in muscle and lean body structures.
· Decreased skin texture resulting in a less youthful appearance.
· Decreased bone density, onset of osteoporosis.
· Decreased brain function, loss of intellect with aging.
· Decreased sex drive.
· Decrease in overall physical and mental well being.
· Increase in sleep disorders, lower quality of sleep.
· Depression and fatigue.

...all of which I have been wrestling with (since '88, in spades) (’cept for the bone density?). I would add connective-tissue disorders such as arthritis & tendo-ligamentous issues, damaged cartilage, severe joint pain, tinnitus, masses of floaters in my eyes, carpal-tunnel syndrome, thinning hair & loss of color, cataracts, and frequent illnesses & infections (which I’ve been slow to recover from). What with one thing and another, I’ve been struggling upstream, it seems, for 15 years...and have aged 25 years in the process: at 35, I looked & felt 25; at 40, I looked & felt 30; at 54, I look and feel 65.

In short, I feel freakin’ O-L-D!!! And I have felt so since shortly after my daughter was born (that’s gettin close to 18 years): my shoulder has been all but un-rehabilitatable, one of my hips is starting to act up, my football-injured knees are painful when standing, sitting & taking stairs, I’m developing pinched disks & nerves, my thought processes are cloudy (for me), I never feel rested no matter how much sleep I get, and every day I go to bed with a longer to-do list than I woke up with; every day it’s harder and more painful and less rewarding to keep going & keep up.

One element I can't leave out is that these "symptoms" are not just a list of unrelated items: they are interwoven, making it virtually impossible for me to make much headway in any one area: I've tried a dozen or more different strategies, I've combines strategies, I made progress, for a time, in one area or another but could only progress so far. Grudgingly, I had to acknowledge that I was not able to effect sufficient change to turn things around; at that point, I began to research anabolics in an effort to at least injury-proof my shoulder; I was still convinced that if I could lift without pain, re-injury & the inevitable layoffs, I could rebuild. Studying anabolics led me to HRT, I began to look into the hormonal aspects, and that led me to GH, as the only single factor whose absence could account for so many of my issues.

The FACTORS
The key factors seem to be chronic high stress at home & at work, and depression, beginning w/ the breakdown of my first marriage & the resulting financial disaster, continuing through turning 40 & the subsequent deaths of my parents (all but my mother's death happened within 6 months). I had always been strong, resilient, cheerful - and had the constitution of a horse: a cold once a year maybe, but otherwise always healthy & positive. First my marriage broke down then my diet broke down, then my sleep (the baby helped with that); got bitter, resentful, angry, depressed, fat & unhealthy, in that order; after 3 years of that, wife left, took the one child, the one car, the one bank account, started screwing my "friends", then I turned 40, then my dad died. I've been depressed - and my health has been deteriorating - ever since.

All this led to an ultimate low point, right around my 54th birthday; in the absence of my daughter, away at school, and the absence of my wife, now gone for more than a year, I was consumed by self-hatred and a HUGE unwillingness to continue to live in the life I'd made for myself - I stopped caring about anything, even living.

Since that’s a mighty sucky way to go thru life (specially as I by rights should have another 25-40 years of active vigorous health ahead of me), I knew I had to change everything if I was going to live long enough to see my daughter graduate from college, see her happily married, see in her the miracle of a parent's love for her own child.

A complete renovation is immediately called-for! Gut it & rebuild it, all new everything on the inside!

Simply getting real improvement, real healing in my joints would break the blockade: then I could lift without reactivating old injuries, regain my strength and endurance & get on with the “doing” part of life.

The reason for going into so much detail is to look at the events and conditions that led to the overall suppression I believe I've been laboring under so long; in doing so, I want to make a case for premature suppression of GH in my situation, induced by factors other than age itself. if I can achieve a real turn-around in my health, my injury-prone state, my overall fitness and resilience, my state of mind and my ongoing hormonal balance, I think it will be a strong argument for the use of GHS/GHRP-6 in reversing premature, or 'shock-induced' symptoms of aging. Too bad I have neither the funds nor the lab-cred to undertake this as a properly sanctified research project!

So, I do it for me, so I can have a life I can stand to live in.
I do it for my daughter, who wants so much for her children to know their grandpa.
I do it because I just no damn good at giving up.

The mechanism will be GHRP-6, a synthetic peptide that stimulates the release of GHRH - growth-hormone-releasing hormone, the body’s GH trigger. I will be taking this in 3 forms:
- as d-lysate-3 GHRP-6, which reduces the impact of a GH co-factor, ghrelin (ghrelin not only stimulates appetite, it also stimulates GH release) by antagonising the GHS receptors in the stomach
- as GHRP-6 itself
- as hexarelin, a GHRP-6 ‘superanalog’ with some fascinating properties, most particularly including the reported ability to normalise long-term GH production and secretion (ie, beyond termination of hexarelin).

I will be taking these in the form of products by IBE: Ectotropin (100mcg d-lysate-3 GHRP-6), and Hexatropin (100mcg GHRP-6 & 100mcg hexarelin)
 
BodyWizard

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here're some details

VITALS: 54, male, 6’ 2“, 200# ~20% bf


BASICS:
Ectotropin 20 doses, 5 on / 2 off (28 days) PM dosing
Hexarelin 140 doses, 5 on / 2 off (180 days) PM dosing
Oratropin not 100% sure how I want to use the OT

NOTE: I have run into several studies concluding that frequent but irregular/unpredictable dosing of Hexarelin leads to the highest stable IGF-1 levels, so even though I'm following their recommended 5 on, 2 off dosing, I’ll also be mixing it up as things wear on.


START DOSE
12/04/05, before bed 120mcg ectotropin

DIET
clean, balanced, whole-food
maintenance calories = 3600

given the ghrelin-antagonism of the ectotropin, and the one-two punch of Hexatropin’s GHRP/hexarelin combo, I plan on listening to my body where food selection, quantity & frequency are concerned - while staying within sight of maintenance cals!


BLOODWORK
sad to say, there’s no starting bloodwork, simply because I can’t afford it - I pay $460 each month for health insurance, and for my trouble & expense, I get a co-pay, cheaper prescriptions (no compounding pharmacies), and hospitalization: no coverage for any testing at all, including that ordered by doctors. Whether there will be bloodwork down the line depends on how the economic chain holds together.


TRAINING
since the goal is rejuvenation (to whatever extent may be possible), I plan to begin at the beginning, with bodyweight: calisthenics, floor exercises, walking / running, plus farmer carries. Will also be doing some yoga, some tai-chi & chi kung & general balance / reaction stuff. Early focus will be on relatively brief bursts of intense, whole-body activity spaced throughout the day, with walking, running & carrying beginning to build endurance

As things develop, I’ll be cutting back on the yoga & adding in other more vigorous activities, such as stick & staff work, roadwork, tumbling & weighted work: deadlifts, dumbbells, kettlebells.

By 4 months, I plan to introduce a focused weight training regimen alongside the speed & flexibility work.

My idea is to take advantage of the opportunity to rebuild strength from the bottom up & inside out, and to mimic childhood development as a guide to normal youthful physical activity; this way, I intend to establish a solid and unified base of general fitness and build from there, ramping up the intensity and complexity and all the while keeping a mix of activities in play. Sounds grandiose but let’s see how it goes.


TRACKING POINTS:
In addition the usual of weight & bodyfat & calories, I’ll also be tracking such exotica as circumferential measurements, hair color and thickness, skin tone and texture, floaters & general visual reactivity & acuity, changes in perceived tinnitus, changes in quality & degree of joint pain, speed of growth (nails, hair), miles walked, miles run, times for distances, and so on. Granted, much of this will be hard to quantify, but I’ll do what I can. Photos will help.

I also reserve the right to begin tracking other items/changes as I think of them.


MARKERS
these are things I'm looking to achieve over the next 8 months:

- 3 regulation pull-ups in 30 seconds
- 10 regulation push-ups in 30 seconds
- run a mile in 6 minutes
- kettlebell snatches without injury (last time I tried snatches, I *badly* re-injured my right shoulder on just 3 reps @ 12kg)
- general joint stability
- lack of pain in joints
- good range-of-motion in joints
- no need for shoulder surgery
- lose the 'water-balloon' torso
- normalisation of the endocrine system generally, GH & sex-complex specifically; optimisation, if possible.
- bodyfat below 15%
- able to put 50 lbs overhead stably & without pain
- no more depression

don't know how reasonable any of this is, really; none of it seems too extreme.

Yeesh - I gotta post this before it turns into a book!
 
MadJimF

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Sounds great, I hope to see great progress with this. I've been thinking about going the same route, and would be nice to see how it works out ahead of time.

Good Luck, will follow...
 
B5150

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I promise not to cry!

So, I do it for me, so I can have a life I can stand to live in.
I do it for my daughter, who wants so much for her children to know their grandpa.
I do it because I just no damn good at giving up.
It's a good thing I made no such promise. You are a strong man regardless. Here is to your success at all the above.
 

snakebyte05

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Good luck in this, I will be following along with this thread. You seem very dedicated and I believe you will get what you are looking for out of this.
 
BodyWizard

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First Week of Ecotropin

Dose 1: Sunday 12/04
searched thru my box for the most full syringe I had - one contained a full 6/10s, so I took that for my first dose, last night, right before bed (even though I ended up getting to bed much later than I meant to). Taste is bland & mildly ‘unflavorful’ - no big deal. Had to do much more swallowing than I expected (makes my mouth water). Lights out immediately after, but couldn’t go to sleep: too busy having goop in my mouth to doze off.

Dose 3: Tuesday 12/06
took it relatively early tonight - 8:30; same taste, same watery mouth - I just swallow, remembering that D-lys3 antagonises ghrelin receptors in the stomach specifically. Strange thing: I’m still up 4 hours later, and I don’t feel stimulated, but I DO feel good; not all grandpa-like & creaky, that is. I feel surprisingly bouncy for the hour & my age. Still, I’m going to bed; only stayed up to catch this last note.

Took a short while to get to sleep last night; mind seemed more active (usually, I just lie down & I’m out for the night). This morning I retain some of last night’s bounciness, but generally, I notice a feeling of having more energy. People are always quick to call any such thing “CNS stimulation”, so let me quickly say that this is NO such thing.

Dose 5: 12/08
Took it late, after brushing teeth & all, stayed up maybe 30 minutes then went to bed. Went to sleep easily, slept soundly, woke up feeling - I dunno, normal, maybe even rested

Had a good day today: clear & crisp & time well used and everything appropriately dealt with. Feel capable of much activity. Tonight is my first off-night - no dose tonight.

I can feel the effects of the Ectotropin - or rather the effects of the increased GH in my system, and while thy’re not especially strong, they are fairly clear and distinct: A sense of being engaged, focused - not just mentally, but physically, like my body is hanging together tighter, holding itself together better; not a tension, but an integration, a working-together. Movements are less painful, less slow, less halting. No idea if this image will translate, but it's weirdly like being steam-driven, and finally having enough pressure in the boiler to move energetically, not slow & sluggish. Like the old 'spring in the step'; I doubt it shows, but I can feel it. there's more of me recruited in every movement. I feel much more energetic: without pushing, or feeling speedy in any way, I'm getting more done than I was.

Could be placebo thinking, but this coincided with the first real cold snap, and the cold usually aggravates the arthritis in my hands, but they've been - and are now - substantially pain-free all week.

I've posted this elsewhere, but just to bring it into this thread: I notice little - if any - lessening of appetite w/ Ectotropin; I could almost argue that it's *grown*, if anything.

I will correct one thing: I don't want my off-days to consume every weekend day, so I'll mix it to skip Saturday & Sunday instead.
 
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BodyWizard

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It's a good thing I made no such promise.
:rofl:
say, then, "I promise not to make anyone's shoulder soggy"; I'm certainly no stranger to tears.
You are a strong man regardless. Here is to your success at all the above.
Thank you, Brian - your support is most welcome! I hope you'll chime in often as the 'experiment' develops.
 

400runner

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IBE, thats freaking awesome. you are a nice person.
 
DAdams91982

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Damn... Thats some good **** IBE. Now just cant wait to hear about the venture BodyWizard.

Adams
 
bioman

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Very nice IBE, very nice indeed.


Keep on truckin BW, there's no greater joy than reclaiming your health by your own hand. I'm confident you will.
 

UGLY

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Excellent log. I will be following your progress very closely. Good luck!

since your post caused tears to us at IBE you will no longer have to pay for any tropins. We want you to stay on as long as you want to try to bring you back the life you deserve.....Merry Xmas bro and good luck.

PS. call us when you need more kits and we will ship them asap
Well done. Very classy IBE!:thumbsup:
 
BodyWizard

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since your post caused tears to us at IBE you will no longer have to pay for any tropins. We want you to stay on as long as you want to try to bring you back the life you deserve.....Merry Xmas bro and good luck.

PS. call us when you need more kits and we will ship them asap
:jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:

I am stunned nearly speechless -
but not too stunned to say
THANK YOU, IBE
for your astounding generosity - may it return to you seven-fold!!!

I keep thinking I should say something else, but all I come up with is: thank you!
 

Niko

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I wish you the very best BodyWizard!

IBE, way to step up! You just made doing business with you that much better.
 

Scrap

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Good luck BodyWizard, keep at it! You are inspirational.

IBE, I always appreciated you before for being great to do business with, but this showing of generousity is top notch! :thumbsup: I have to say, this is just an amazing showing of generousity, and I only wish you continued and greater success! Good job bro!
 
Beowulf

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BW, I've been waiting till I had time to read this. Best intro and most thoughtful plan I have ever seen. You deserve and will achieve success.


IBE, that is a wonderful gesture. Bravo!
 

Parteeman

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What an appropriate thread at Christmas time. Anyone who thinks that people are out only for themselves all the time and don't give a **** about anybody else needs to read this thread and be reminded--the world is full of really good people--like IBE and Bodywizard. Merry Christmas folks. :woohoo:
 

joecski

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Good Luck!

BW - best of luck with the gameplan. It looks like you put a lot of effort into it. If you put as much effort into the execution of the plan, I'm sure it will be successful!

I was a tester for the Ecto and dosed it 3 days on/1 day off to keep the appetite suppressed. I remeber the suppression kicking in strong on about day three, so I'm curious if you have felt anything yet. i was also doisng in the morning, I would get up an hour early, take a dose, and drop off back to sleep. That way it didn't interfere with my schedule and it was very effective with the appetite.

IBE - awesome move with the gifts!
 
SJA

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Kudos to BW and IBE for their generosity.

Be certain to WARM UP old man ;) I mean spend most of your workout warming up....no need to re-injur again. Pump as much blood into your muscles as you can and take it slooooowwwww. Strength will come on it's own.....just don't fall into the typical male ego where you feel stronger and forget the bigger picture (we all do it :D )

Best of luck.....keep us posted.
 

fedaykin

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damn good thread. Definately a great gesture IBE. Good luck to you BW. This is a classic case of someone who has actually done the resarch before jumping in!!! once again, great thread.
 
BodyWizard

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Thanks to all for the incredible support - a lot of generous spirits around here! Seriously, it means a lot - it *IS* like having brothers.

I've been thinking about it, and I've decided this thread will be on-going (but not perpetual). As long as Bobo lets me show up here, and IBE has tropins for me, and I keep getting results in this effort, I'll keep the log.
 
Beelzebub

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good luck with it bodywiz.

IBE, much respect.
 
BodyWizard

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I already had the Ectotropin (1 kit), and I'm almost half-way through it, and just today I received the 6 kits of Hexatropin ordered during the sale. I also have 2 kits of Oratropin.

I guess the good news there is: orders from the *tropin sale are arriving!
 
Grunt76

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Way to go, BW. It takes some guts to put it all out there like that and share the most intimate thing that most people hide from others: the pain. I believe you have the right plan. Way to go man! Way to go IBE! Looking forward to your progress BW! :)
 

ryano

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Wow this is going good so far.

Thanks Bodywizard for keeping a great log. Your going doing this for all the right reasons. Thanks IBE for helping BW. Just more affirmation that the reason why this board kicks butt soo much is because of all the people involved.
 
BigVrunga

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Good luck with the GHRP experiment, BW - Ill be keeping an eye on your log...

BV
 
B5150

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Guys,
Please refrain from IBE customer service/delivery inquiries in BW's thread. Take them elsewhere...please. I cleaned up this thread a bit. Let's keep it clean for BodyWizard support and journal posting.

Thanks :)
 
BodyWizard

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Second week

WEIGHT: 204# WAIST: 42“ BF %: 19.3

I didn’t notice much difference on my off-days, but I was looking forward to getting on with the trial; the bounciness has turned into a general sense of activation. It’s as if my body used to release all muscle tonus when I’d sit down, but now fells like that’s no longer the case; where I was lumbering slowly and painfully to my feet and into motion, now I just stand up and go. Given how much I have to do to prepare for the holidays, this is a huge help!

Sounds like such a small thing....

My knees are still painful; not as painful, and not all the time, as is my shoulder still painful; still, many of my smaller aches & pains (hands/wrists/finger most noticeably) have receded. Time will tell if they stay receded.

Small things: I’ve had to trim my nails twice in the last week; ditto hair, some; I sleep like a rock these days and I wake up hungry - I’ve slept well for years, but not like this...and waking up hungry is something I haven’t done since I was a teenager.

Dose #6 12/11 - PM
In the time-honored tradition of logs offering WAY TOO MUCH information: sex feels GOOD! I tried to remember how long since sex felt physically pleasurable and I can’t; years, but how many?

Dose #7 12/12 - PM
Today I had my first ”characteristic“ experience of the d-lys-3 action on appetite: even though ravenously hungry, I ate a third of what I would have eaten a week ago if similarly hungry.

Calisthenics & stretching was a good call for this phase, at least: wish I had a 12x12’ gym mat so I could roll around & such! Was reading Loki’s articles on sprinting @ Avant: I like the sound of that; seems like it would fit in well with what I’m trying to do,

Dose #8 12/13 - PM - Calisthenic / house-cleaning / moving
Have been staggeringly hungry all day; even if I eat all I want, my stomach is STILL giving off the “feed me” signal. Very strange. I had a sandwich for lunch at 2, and soup about 5, and here it is 9:00 PM, and I’m ravenous - I want to EAT!!!

Day 14 12/14 - yoga / walk / house-cleaning / packing
no dose tonight: I’m skipping one so I can try out morning dosing this weekend.

Dose #9 12/15 - PM - Yoga / farmer carries / calisthenics
I’m torn between dosing tonight as I have been, and waiting until tomorrow morning; I’ll probably go with tonight. Still hungry all the time; easy enough to ignore (maybe just because I’ve had so much practice), but hard to miss. It only really bothers me when I’m not busy...like now....

Calisthenics were enjoyable & energising, as usual, but when doing push-ups, I noticed pain in my right shoulder, biceps & triceps - it made the push-ups more of an adventure than they ought to be. it was a generalised pain - not sharp or shooting, not specific to one angle or segment of the move. Very odd. Even so, I completed 15 pushups in less than a minute - I’m going to bump my marker from 10 in 30 sec. to 25 in 30 sec.

Dose #10 12/17 - AM - Calisthenic / yardwork / breathing
Took this morning, 6AM, instead of before bed last night. Since I’m not sleeping through the first 6-8 hours, this could be informative.

First thing I notice is, I’m just now (1:23PM) getting hungry; normal for me: I usually have little hunger in the AM & only start to feel the pangs around now. So apparently, by dosing PM, I’m shifting my regular no-hunger zone from early afternoon to get-up time. This is great for several reasons: it seems a more normal way to eat, I get much better nutrition through the day, and I’m not hungry before bed anymore; a bedtime protein shake before bed & I’m good.

Second thing is, no lethargy. I’ve already done a round of calisthenics (I’ll be posting information about that separately), and raked up a ton of leaves in the yard, sorted all the recyclables, moved the computer, and am otherwise getting the house in order for the Christmas Break re-assembly

As a general note: my mood, energy level & overall outlook on things has been extremely good in the 2 weeks I’ve been taking the Ectotropin. It is like my old, unflappable self in many ways. This is VERY good news!

Okay, enough for now: time to EAT!

Next dose tomorrow night, to begin week 3.
 
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Glad to see you've set sail on the tropin trip BW! Best of luck to ya. Way to go with the support IBE...

From the way this log sounds so far, I guess its safe to say you have a general feeling of well being?
 
BodyWizard

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I guess its safe to say you have a general feeling of well being?
As a general note: my mood, energy level & overall outlook on things has been extremely good in the 2 weeks I’ve been taking the Ectotropin
that would be 'yes'...
:thumbsup:

I suppose I could elaborate:
my overall mental state has been relaxed and alert, and my naturally sunny disposition has been close to the surface; I feel much less strain emotionally and physically; I have more confidence in my assessment of & response to situations and circumstances; I feel solid in my dealings with people, less confused, focused but not pushy, efficient but not fussy, self-propelled but not driven.

If this is not a general feeling of well-being, it's certainly headed in that direction!
 
B5150

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my overall mental state has been relaxed and alert, and my naturally sunny disposition has been close to the surface; I feel much less strain emotionally and physically;
Those are good things to come by. I know I could use a good long cycle of those. I'm pleased to hear you are feeling this well. Good for you. Enjoy!
 
SJA

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Calisthenics & stretching was a good call for this phase, at least: wish I had a 12x12’ gym mat so I could roll around & such! Was reading Loki’s articles on sprinting @ Avant: I like the sound of that; seems like it would fit in well with what I’m trying to do,
Remember that Loki is a youngin. With your past/present history, I would strongly advise that you go easy. Warming up is HUGE for us old guys. Your muscle memory will respond long before your connective tissue, tendons and ligaments. The feeling of well being along with the accellerated strength may be your demise if you do not stick to a plan. Please allow your body to equilibrate along the way or we may be reading a not so happy log here. JMO.
 
Grunt76

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Oratropin is pretty good for strengthening connective tissue, when the need arises...
 
BodyWizard

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Those are good things to come by. I know I could use a good long cycle of those. I'm pleased to hear you are feeling this well. Good for you. Enjoy!
Agree - and these things stand out now for me because this is such a huge shift from the tone my life had taken on; something has shifted in me, even though it seems like it could be "a GH mood effect".

The acid test, if you will, came today: my wife came over and I was completely unaffected by her, impervious to her dysfunction for the first time in years. Tomorrow she moves back in for the holidays: I feel no dread and no particular interest in her being in the house for 3 weeks; my daughter's coming home, and we'll all have a good time, then they will both leave. I'd much rather tell my daughter what's going on, but for a variety of reasons, I want her to have a full year of success in college under her belt before I rock her world.

I mentioned stress in my initial post - this is a prime example, the Kobe beef of stress. And I feel okay. Unthrown. Not thrilled; hardly euphoric, and not especially pleasured, but okay. Like I'll survive & things will work out. Like I can feel the floor under my feet.

This is genuinely much MUCH better than where I was thru October & November, I'm not minimising or poormouthing, I'm grateful that I feel as I do & not as I did - just trying to put it in perspective, paint an accurate picture.

Relaxed and alert and less strain is just fine.
Lets my naturally sunny disposition shine thru!

Early days, early days...by Easter I should have much better grip on where I'm at, well-being-wise. ;)...and it's WAY past my bedtime again.
 
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Rage (SoCal)

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Hey man....amazing log so far. I'm glad to hear about your progress. How are your muskkkkkles feeling? Keep up this log, its going great.
 
BodyWizard

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A strange thing:
My gums have swollen, becoming darker red than normal, and puffy / tender to the touch. This has happened only in certain areas, not uniformly.

Has ANYONE who has used ANY of the tropins experienced anything like this? I'd be VERY interested to know what this is about!
 
DAdams91982

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A strange thing:
My gums have swollen, becoming darker red than normal, and puffy / tender to the touch. This has happened only in certain areas, not uniformly.

Has ANYONE who has used ANY of the tropins experienced anything like this? I'd be VERY interested to know what this is about!
Probibably the Carrier... try not to let it hit your gums... you should only be squirting it in the back or your throat. Carrier may have some kind of alcohol in it, irritating your gums.

Adams
 
BodyWizard

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I'm pretty certain there's no alcohol in it; yes, my first thought was a reaction to the carrier, but I can see no reason for only certain areas of gum being affected . I DO squirt it on the back of my tongue & smear it around the naso-pharyngeal area & avoid playing around with it. Appreciate the input :thumbsup:

Wondering how many have had similar reactions & how such situations have developed for others.

Added notes: though it's very uncomfortable to brush the teeth in the swollen areas, I've had no bleeding at all. The first area to experience the pain & swelling returned to normal after several days; the swollen areas are visibly swollen / discolored. Anterior lymph nodes below the mandible are slightly swollen & mildly painful in response to pressure.
 
SJA

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A strange thing:
My gums have swollen, becoming darker red than normal, and puffy / tender to the touch. This has happened only in certain areas, not uniformly.

Has ANYONE who has used ANY of the tropins experienced anything like this? I'd be VERY interested to know what this is about!

I have had the gum on one tooth start bleeding at random from time to time when I brushed. My teeth and gums are usually very healthy and I was puzzled. Now that you've mentioned it, it didn't start until I was doing the tropins. It lasted about a month and now there is no problem. Maybe we just need to toughen up :D
 
Beelzebub

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Remember that Loki is a youngin. With your past/present history, I would strongly advise that you go easy. Warming up is HUGE for us old guys. Your muscle memory will respond long before your connective tissue, tendons and ligaments. The feeling of well being along with the accellerated strength may be your demise if you do not stick to a plan. Please allow your body to equilibrate along the way or we may be reading a not so happy log here. JMO.
well said. i'm still a youngin but my past injuries have always been from getting greedy with the weight and trying for more than than the plan allowed. train smart brudda.
 
Grunt76

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A strange thing:
My gums have swollen, becoming darker red than normal, and puffy / tender to the touch. This has happened only in certain areas, not uniformly.

Has ANYONE who has used ANY of the tropins experienced anything like this? I'd be VERY interested to know what this is about!
You've probably got this covered, but try and take in at least 3-5 grams of vitamin C per day when you have gum problems.
 

neverstop

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CHEERS IBE! that kind of stuff just cements how awesome this company is! they have ALWAYS treated me well and even overnight shipped me stuff free when they made a mistake. company with class

Good luck on your tropin adventure! its honest logs like this that help everyone and i wish you the best on your journey,
i will be watching closely:)
 
BodyWizard

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Week 3 (of 26)

Weight: 205 Waist: 42 BF: 19.0

WOO HOO - lost 5 ounces!!!

actually, 39.372 - 38.95 = 0.42, or 6.72 oz...roughly (I mean, 3/10 of 1 percent?!? MY skinfold calipers don’t offer that kind of resolution!)

Anyway, it’s something: my first number.
I will pet it and feed it and call it George....

But this isn’t about numbers, of course, not really...at least not yet. I expect the real results to start small and take time. mostly what I’ve been describing have been not much more than indications that I AM releasing GH (and apparently in larger quantities than before)...yep, it’s workin’...but we won’t see the fruits of this labor for awhile, so no way to assess those fruits in the here-&-now.

One thing I’d expect to see as a sign that I’m on a worthwhile track would be whether I’m in observably better health in one year; another would be a decline in health-related down-time in the same time frame (see, Steve? thinking long-term here!).

Dose 11 12/18 PM

Dose 12 12/19 PM
Trimmed hair & beard & fingernails

Dose 13 12/20 PM
hunger has really fallen off a cliff

Dose 14 12/21 PM
One thing I’m *definitely* noticing is tiredness! It’s 9:30 and I just can’t stay awake any longer....

Dose 15 12/22 PM

Day 20 12/23
Day 24 12/24

NEXT DOSE: 12/25, before bed (that’s tonight)


WEEKLY WRAP-UP

Hair definitely seems to be growing in faster/thicker, though I’m the only one who notices (so far).

Appetite has been mostly contained, w/ only a few of the ravening spells.

The gum swelling & pain I mentioned earlier are gone almost entirely, leaving no ill effects in its wake.

Sincere apologies for having so little to post this week: with busy days at work, final preparations for daughter coming home for the holidays, shopping, cooking, shopping, cooking, etc, I didn’t even gat all presents wrapped until last night. Just have not had time to do much posting; I have been keeping notes, though, so I’ll be transcribing & posting them over the next day or 2.

I’ll put this here for now, since I didn’t post week 3 yesterday & I have my Sunday numbers now: seem to have undergone a significant weight shift. I am apparently UNDER 200# now - maybe as low as 185 (yes, that would be TOO big a shift in one week), but probably no higher than 199.

Pollock 3-site fold method shows 17.2% BF - that’s apparently 1.8% for the week (damn!) Translated into fat-mass poundage, that suggests 4.75# of fat lost this week (using 199 as my ending weight).

Damn!

Hope everyone is having the best, safest, most satisfying holiday season ever!!!
 
EEmain

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Good log Bro! I couldn`t wait to start so I dosed Hex the first time(8 am) this morning. Damn I never knew I could produce so much saliva:blink:

Nothing to report...
 
BodyWizard

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:rofl:
yeah, that happened to me the first 2-3 times - gives a whole new meaning to "getting juiced".... :toofunny:

looking forward to your impressions on the Hex!
 
SJA

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Atta boy.....keep it long term.

I have been using Hex for quite a while and have not gotten over the saliva production yet. OT isn't nearly as bad as Hex with regard to spit. It's really hard not to swallow after squirting it into your mouth.
 

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