Ecdy Causes Cancer?
- 04-08-2011, 04:37 PM
Ecdy Causes Cancer?
I just ordered 2 bottles of the Ecdy, and have been real excited to give it a try. I read an old thread today, and it kind of scared me. Maybe my fears aren't warrented and you can relay some newer thoughts on these findings.
(was going to post a link to the thead "ecdysterone and cancer?" from bodybuilding dot com, but unfortunately I can't since my post count is so low)
Specifically the part in the middle of the thread where it says that ecdysterone was on a list submitted to the (national toxicology program), and determined to be carcinogenic by the national cancer institute. Also the part near the bottom of the thread that says 95% pure ecdysterone powder dust should not be inhaled or allowed to touch the skin. If this stuff shouldn't even touch the skin, then how safe could it be to orally ingest it? Not trying to cause any false alarm, and I'm sure you can provide some insight as to these findings. I've really been looking forward to trying the Ecdy, so hopefully you can ease my worries.
- 04-08-2011, 08:37 PM
First off, no it won't cause cancer. PM me a link to what you're talking about
- 04-08-2011, 08:59 PM
04-08-2011, 08:59 PM
Ok here is my 7th post, so I should be able to send you a pm lol.
04-08-2011, 09:40 PM
I am very interested to see this as well.
04-08-2011, 10:04 PM
04-08-2011, 10:37 PM
04-09-2011, 12:46 AM
I'm not exactly a big fan either lol, but I did see some links that made me wonder. If you aren't supposed to breath the stuff or let it touch your skin, then wouldn't ingesting it be kind of scary?
04-09-2011, 12:49 AM
04-09-2011, 02:42 AM
Vaughn, WTF happened to your thread over there?
04-09-2011, 10:35 AM
04-09-2011, 10:40 AM
04-09-2011, 10:53 AM
iForce Nutrition Online Representative Manager
iTrain. iCompete. iDominate…iForce!
04-09-2011, 01:17 PM
04-09-2011, 02:28 PM
I missed it too. I will poiny out(assuminh I am allowed to) that its used intramuscularly in some circles and I never heard of anyone getting cancer from using ecyd.
04-09-2011, 02:32 PM
If ecdy causes cancer I will die a very young man...
04-09-2011, 11:03 PM
BB.com is not a place a I really turn to for legit information, to many people on that board with far inferior knowledge and to much time on there hands to create drama. There are many good members there, but the bad over-ride the good imo.
04-09-2011, 11:36 PM
04-09-2011, 11:46 PM
04-10-2011, 12:35 AM
04-10-2011, 02:53 AM
I go tanning... daily! Bring it
04-10-2011, 11:59 AM
04-10-2011, 12:29 PM
Sorry man, I'm not trying to down play the situation. It's just EVERYTHING nowa days causes cancer. I do my best to live a healthy life and I think it's safe to say most members here on AM do. Ecdy has always been known as a safe supplement but then bang there's someone at BB with a link to claims it causes cancer...
Bottom line I'm not worried for now. I've search ecdy for hours on end and never seen a health concern. Who knows maybe I missed something...
04-11-2011, 09:15 AM
I read this on Friday and sort of scratched my head without giving it too much thought at the time. Since then I've had a bit of time to think about it and here is my rationale for ecdysterone's safety. It is a significant component in spinach and quinoa right? We all know that it is, so if ecdy really caused cancer then it follows that spinach and quinoa would have to be carcinogenic too. Now, does anyone honestly think spinach causes cancer, seriously.
I will qualify the above with the following. I am not familiar with the plant that is used for the extraction of ecdy, but it is possible that lower purity extracts could contain some type of phytochemical which is carcinogenic, not ecdysterone though. This is my logic; I am not backing it up by any scientific studies, but in this case I honestly don't think it is necessary. I welcome your guys thoughts. I ordered 4 bottles of the 99% pure ECDY btw.
04-11-2011, 09:14 PM
i think it's worth exploring even if there is a slight chance something can be a carcinogen. I haven't the slightest clue on ECDY, but let's not knock the OP, or anyone for that matter, on have a concern over safety of supplementation.
04-12-2011, 12:10 AM
04-12-2011, 12:34 AM
04-12-2011, 03:04 PM
+1 on the melanotan lol :-)! Ya hopefully Vaughn will post up soon with his take on this. I pm'd him the info like he asked, but he hasn't got back to me.
04-12-2011, 03:38 PM
Coffee used to be bad for you and now it has a ton of anti-ox. Hell the rank of the guy next to be in the stale as I breath could be effecting my lungs.
Enjoy your supplements and respect them, as your body is a work of art!
Damn, I must have taken my hemp sup
04-12-2011, 04:28 PM
very interested in hearing more about this, and of course I read this right after I ordered two bottles lol. positive studies or GTFO just kidding, just dont want to get spooked out of this like I did daa. any info would be appreciated....
04-12-2011, 07:36 PM
04-12-2011, 10:51 PM
My initial foray into the abstracts leads me to believe that ecdysterone is actually anti-carcinogenic helping to lead to cancer cell aptosis.
Ecdysterone Modulates Antitumor Activity of Cytostatics and Biosynthesis of Macromolecules in Tumor-Bearing Mice
N. P. Konovalova, Yu. I. Mitrokhin, L. M. Volkova, L. I. Sidorenko and I. N. Todorov
The influence of therapeutic and half doses of cisplatin and adriamycin combination with the anabolic drug ecdysterone (20-hydroecdison) on development of subcutaneously and intraperitoneally transplanted P388 and L1210 leukemia and metastasizing B16 melanoma was studied. Ecdysterone significantly stimulated the chemotherapeutic effect of low doses of the cytostatics: inhibition of tumor growth, mice survival rate, their lifespan, and the antimetastatic activity index were comparable or better than after therapy with high doses of the antitumor drugs. The influence of high and low doses of cisplatin and its low dose in combination with ecdysterone on the dynamics of protein and DNA biosynthesis in the liver, pancreas, thymus, spleen, and adrenals of tumor-bearing mice were also studied. Although the therapeutic effect of 4 mg/kg cisplatin by activated protein biosynthesis and DNA repair is comparable or better than that of its low dose (2 mg/kg) in combination with ecdysterone, in terms of chemotherapy the combination looks preferable since the therapeutic dose of cisplatin is toxic for the intact tissues.
This is from a patent filing, note that beta-ecdysterone is listed for possible inclusion in a cancer therapy treatment:
Compositions of botanical extracts for cancer therapy
United States Patent Application 20050208070
The compositions can also be formulated with other active ingredients, such as anti-oxidants, vitamins (A, C, ascorbic acid, B's, such as B1, thiamine, B6, pyridoxine, B complex, biotin, choline, nicotinic acid, pantothenic acid, B12, cyanocobalamin, and/or B2, D, D2, D3, calciferol, E, such as tocopherol, riboflavin, K, K1, K2). Preferred compounds, include, e.g creatine monohydrate, pyruvate, L-Carnitine, α-lipoic acid, Phytin or Phytic acid, Co Enzyme Q10, NADH, NAD, D-ribose, amino acids such as L-glutamine, Lysine, chrysin; pre-hormones such as 4-androstenedione, 5-androstenedione, 4(or 5-)androstenediol, 19-nor-4 (or 5-)-androstenedione, 19-nor-4 (or 5-)-androstenediol, Beta-ecdysterone, and 5-Methyl-7-Methoxy Isoflavone. Preferred active ingredients include, e.g., pine pollen, fructus lycii, Hippophae rhamnoides, Ligusticum, Acanthopanax, Astragalus, Ephedra, codonopsis, polygola tenuifolia Willd, Lilium, Sparganiuma , ginseng, panax notogiseng, Garcinia , Guggle, Grape Seed Extract or powder, and/or Ginkgo Biloba.
Not related to cancer but I found this interesting as mitochondrial maintenance/support supplementation is a focus of life extension supplementation.
Rhaponticum carthamoides ( Leuzea carthamoides , or Maral Root) contains a mixture of compounds called ‘levseins’. Levseins represents a complex of more than 10 ecdysterones including 20-beta-ecdysterone, makisterone C, 24-dehydromakisterone A, carthamosterone, polypodyne B and ajugasterone C. Researchers extracted and purified various ecdysteroids from Rhaponticum and found that the ecdysteroids increased the muscle mass in a dose-dependent manner, with the rate of increase proportional to the ecdysteroids content. Ecdysteroids normalize NADH dehydrogenase activity, enzyme which catalyses NADH electron transfer to the ubiquinone in the oxidative phosphorylation processes at the mitochondrial level, contributing to buildup the electrochemical potential used to produce ATP. It also normalizes the succinate dehydrogenase activity, enzyme which acts in the tricarboxilic acid cycle, which translates in ATP synthesis and patient energy level increases [Tashmukhamedova M A, Almatov K T, Syrov V N. Comparative study of the effect of ecdysterone, turkesterone and nerobol on the function of rat liver mitochondria in experimental diabetes. Vopr Med Khim. 1986; 32:24-8]. Incorporation of this phytomedicine provides at least 10 active principles in a single therapeutic.
There were some other papers relating to cancer cell aptosis and ecdysterone, but I didn't have access to the full text and ecdysterone's role wasn't covered in the abstract.
04-12-2011, 11:11 PM
04-13-2011, 08:34 AM
So here is the only negative study I could find regarding ecdysterone and cancer; it regards the proliferation of breast cancer cells which have the estrogen receptor alpha. Note: T47D = Human ductal breast epithelial tumor cell line - Whole Cell Lysate
Influence of isopsoralen and ecdysterone on T47D cell proliferation and ER subtype expression of human breast cancer
ZHAO Pi-wen,NIU Jian-zhao,WANG Ji-feng,et al.(School of Fundamental Medical Sciences,Beijing University of Chinese Medicine, Beijing 100029)
Objective To observe the effects of isopsoralen and ecdysterone on the proliferation of T47D cells and detect their influence on the expressions of T47D subtypes-estrogen receptor α(ERα) and estrogen receptor β(ERβ) cells in human breast cancer.Methods The influence of isopsoralen and ecdysterone(the active principles of Fructus Psoraleae,Radix Cyathulae) on the proliferation of ERα and ERβ cells and on the expression levels of ERα and ERβ mRNA by MTT assay and RT-PCR respectively.The changes of cell proliferation cycle were detected by flow cytometry.Results Isopsoralen and ecdysterone(in dose of 10-6 mol/L and 10-7 mol/L respectively) promoted obviously the proliferation of cultured T47D cells,increased the proliferation indexes with an estrogenic effect.The result of RT-PCR showed that isopsoralen(10-6 mol/L) and ecdysterone(10-7 mol/L) improved the expression of ERα mRNA and isopsoralen improved the expression of ERβ mRNA at the same time.Conclusion Isopsoralen and ecdysterone have the phytoestrogenic effects and can influence the mRNA expression level of ER subtype.
______________________________ ______________________________ ___
I'm not rushing to any negative conclusions because of the above study. Other studies have shown that ecdysterone encourages tumor cell aptosis in prostrate cancer.
04-13-2011, 03:23 PM
I've used and researched ecdy for years. I love the concept of a product with an almost unlimited health benefits that can also build muscle. I have even mega dosed on the stuff. The problem is that the oral bioavailability is very poor. I just finished a 4 week run of E-Bol from Thermo life and did not notice any increase in muscle mass or any leaning effect. But It does provide a deep and restful night’s sleep. In fact, if I dose too high prior to bedtime I'm groggy the next morning. From what I can discern the Russians injected the stuff. I have even read excerpts where modern day bodybuilders have injected ecdy with great results. It obviously has to be modified in order to be injected.
04-13-2011, 07:42 PM
Thanks for posting sapentia. That definitley makes me feel a little better. Maybe Vaughn will also get around to responding one day.
04-13-2011, 09:30 PM
04-14-2011, 12:22 PM
just wondering why dont people just drink grapefruit juice to help with the digestion and biovaliablity of Ecdy?
04-14-2011, 12:29 PM
I haven't responded because there isn't much to respond to. Any compound in its pure form will have an MSDS which claims it can be harmful if inhaled or touched with skin. This is true for caffeine...vitamin c...everything. Ecdy can not and will not cause cancer.
04-14-2011, 02:17 PM
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