[OpKang101]

Just wondering, as I am not a "PH" user
but just out of curiosity sakes,

why did you guys decide to discontinue Phera-Max,
It was obviously a great selling product

Did you guys get a cease and desist letter from FDA or DEA?

If so, how come all the other companies are still selling the same products (clones)?

[we1975]

hi guys this is the first time have ever posted anything on a bodybuilding supplement website so please go easy on me lol i finished a havoc cycle about 4 months ago awesome strength gains but i suffered with lethargy from about 5 days into it im know using epithin e and its ment to be exactly the same just another epistain clone have been on it for about 10 days not much as happend well not as much as it did with havoc it never ceasers to amaze me how you can take 2 exactly same products and apparently same thing in them and 1 is slightly or a lot strionger than the other any thoughts on this by the way great forum guys

[OpKang101]

Originally Posted by we1975

hi guys this is the first time have ever posted anything on a bodybuilding supplement website so please go easy on me lol i finished a havoc cycle about 4 months ago awesome strength gains but i suffered with lethargy from about 5 days into it im know using epithin e and its ment to be exactly the same just another epistain clone have been on it for about 10 days not much as happend well not as much as it did with havoc it never ceasers to amaze me how you can take 2 exactly same products and apparently same thing in them and 1 is slightly or a lot strionger than the other any thoughts on this by the way great forum guys

Dealing with chinese raw material suppliers can lead to... well,
products that may not have the ingredients the supplement companies would like.

4everfit just had a issue with that in their d-drol "supplement"
where its supposed to have estra compound with superdrol and phera all stacked together but when Patrick Arnold (famous chemist guy) ran it through gas chromatography and other stuff,
there was a flat line, meaning none of the supposed compounds were in there.

[we1975]

thanks for that so basically its just false advertiseing like 99 per cent of supplements are particolorey the muscletech brand 14 pound of muscle in 2 wks yeah rgt lol i really dont know how a lot of companys get away with the crazy advertisement claims i was thinking about using the cissus drol for pct have herd good reviews about that and also the competative edge labs have herd there pretty good as well but in a nut shell is there really any company you can trust

[Usf97j4x4]

Originally Posted by OpKang101

Just wondering, as I am not a "PH" user
but just out of curiosity sakes,

why did you guys decide to discontinue Phera-Max,
It was obviously a great selling product

Did you guys get a cease and desist letter from FDA or DEA?

If so, how come all the other companies are still selling the same products (clones)?

Just speculating but it is likely the raws got too expensive for them. With the ban on the horizon the price has really increased.

[RoadBlocK]

Originally Posted by we1975

thanks for that so basically its just false advertiseing like 99 per cent of supplements are particolorey the muscletech brand 14 pound of muscle in 2 wks yeah rgt lol i really dont know how a lot of companys get away with the crazy advertisement claims i was thinking about using the cissus drol for pct have herd good reviews about that and also the competative edge labs have herd there pretty good as well but in a nut shell is there really any company you can trust

Its really a shame that you are not seeing good results from the epithin-e, but having run the big three, epi,hav +epi-e, I can tell you there was no difference in my opinion. I cant comment on all the companys out there, because lord knows there are some seriously shady ones out there today, but Generic Labz IS and has always been a reputable company, and their products have always been considered to be top notch by many people. I have never been disappointed with any of the GL products I have used.

As to your specific situation, Im far from an expert, or a scientist, but perhaps there might be some issue with receptor affinity, or you may need to space out your cycles of the same compound a little more than 4 months to prevent attenuation/building up tolerance. Or if it was your first cycle, some feel that the gains are never the same after the first, or you may just have to up the dosages to compensate. Again, Im far from an expert, but Im just taking a stab at your situation. Like I said already, the GL stuff has always been good, in my opinion.

[we1975]

thanks for that road block i did a havoc cycle about 4 months ago but maybe im expecting a bit 2 much il increase the epithin to 4 tabs a day and see how it goes your rgt about the dodgy shady companys out there seems like the bigger the company they are as in the ammount of advertising they have to do then worse they are lol mentioning no names but am sure everyone knows who i mean lol thanks for the advice

[RoadBlocK]

Originally Posted by we1975

thanks for that road block i did a havoc cycle about 4 months ago but maybe im expecting a bit 2 much il increase the epithin to 4 tabs a day and see how it goes your rgt about the dodgy shady companys out there seems like the bigger the company they are as in the ammount of advertising they have to do then worse they are lol mentioning no names but am sure everyone knows who i mean lol thanks for the advice

Im always happy to try and lend a hand or suggestion, even if there not always correct, lol. But I will also add this, your 210lbs , and I think I have said before, many times that 40mg is the "sweet spot"(as I called it) while on epi/havoc if you are a person over 200lbs. So if you dont notice a little improvement at 4 a day, then I dont know what else I can say, other than what Ive already suggested it might be. But its not worth the sides to go over 40mg a day, again my opinion. And lastly, and once again, my opinion, the difference between 30mg and 40mg of epi/havoc is virtually like night and day in terms of gains.

Just remember, this is for guys over 200lbs, so if you are 165 and you can take 10mg and grow like a weed, god bless you, I hate you, and keep the dosage low.

[we1975]

its great having guys like you on these sites i have competed in shows using the synthetic gear but its hard getting the real stuff so have kinnda switched over the pro hormones or legal steroids wood this be better do you think rather than jump up to 40mg of epithin keep the dosage at around 20 or 30 mg but add another supplement so take 2 together stacking them but not as high dosage wood i get a better synthetic effect like that thanks again for your help great stuff

[RoadBlocK]

Originally Posted by we1975

its great having guys like you on these sites i have competed in shows using the synthetic gear but its hard getting the real stuff so have kinnda switched over the pro hormones or legal steroids wood this be better do you think rather than jump up to 40mg of epithin keep the dosage at around 20 or 30 mg but add another supplement so take 2 together stacking them but not as high dosage wood i get a better synthetic effect like that thanks again for your help great stuff

Honestly, no, try 40mg and see how that works for you. Figure out if this dose is good for you, then maybe down the road, you can try stacking two things together. Right now, since your already on the epi, you might as well ramp up the dosage to an effective amount, and see what kind of gains you make. Im far from a pro or expert, but like I said Im always willing to try and help. You should also search around for some of the epistane and havoc threads and logs and see how those guys run theirs.

[we1975]

tnaks road block great advice mate