Real American Hero

[Usf97j4x4]

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Monday presented the nation's highest military award to a 19-year-old soldier who died saving the lives of four comrades in Iraq by jumping on a grenade tossed into their military vehicle.

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The honored soldier, Army Pfc. Ross McGinnis, "gave all for his country," the president said somberly.

"No one outside this man's family can know the true weight of their loss. But in words spoken long ago, we are told how to measure the kind of devotion that Ross McGinnis showed on his last day: 'Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.'"

The president spoke in the East Room at a ceremony attended by Vice President **** Cheney, prior recipients of the Medal of Honor, military leaders, McGinnis' parents, Tom and Romayne, and his two sisters, Becky and Katie. The four soldiers protected by McGinnis' actions were all in attendance.

McGinnis was in the gunner's hatch of a Humvee on Dec. 4, 2006, on a patrol in Iraq, when a grenade sailed past him and into the vehicle where the four other soldiers sat. He shouted a warning, then jumped on the grenade while it was lodged near the vehicle's radio.

"By that split-second decision, Private McGinnis lost his own life, and he saved his comrades," Bush said.

McGinnis grew up in the rural town of Knox, Pa., about 60 miles northeast of Pittsburgh.

He enlisted in the Army after some struggles in school. Friends and family say they were watching him transform into a man.

Bush called him a regular guy, a dependable friend with a big heart and a carefree spirit. He also had a robust sense of humor, as was known as the only one in boot camp who could make his drill sergeant laugh, the president said.

As a military aide read the formal citation of McGinnis' honor, Bush gave the late soldier's mom a smile. When the audience rose and offered an ovation, Bush gave Mrs. McGinnis a kiss on the cheek and shook her husband's hand.

The president said it was a high privilege for him to present the Medal of Honor, recognizing valor beyond anything that duty could require.

"May the deep respect of our whole nation be a comfort to the family of this fallen soldier," Bush said. "May God always watch over the country he served, and keep us ever grateful for the life of Ross Andrew McGinnis."

 

[futurepilot]

How come these guys always jump on the grenade. I've read a dozen storys recently about guys dying by jumping on grenades, or jumped into the line of fire to save a friend. I dont know if i buy it, after the Pat Tillman, and that girl that turned out to be made up storys it seems like one too many "dependable friend with a big heart and a carefree spirit" are getting killed.

Where the news reports that go...He lived life as an a$$hole, F#ck em, and heres tom with the weather. A kid i know from high school is fighting overseas right now and hopefully they never give him a he was a good guy speech, he's killed little kids, f'd his wife in the A untill she bled on their wedding night and more, and no he's not one bad seed, theres wouldnt be abu ghraib and the masacre's in haditha, Jalalabad and mazar among many, many others

 

[b unit]

How come these guys always jump on the grenade. I've read a dozen storys recently about guys dying by jumping on grenades, or jumped into the line of fire to save a friend. I dont know if i buy it, after the Pat Tillman, and that girl that turned out to be made up storys it seems like one too many "dependable friend with a big heart and a carefree spirit" are getting killed.

Where the news reports that go...He lived life as an a$$hole, F#ck em, and heres tom with the weather. A kid i know from high school is fighting overseas right now and hopefully they never give him a he was a good guy speech, he's killed little kids, f'd his wife in the A untill she bled on their wedding night and more, and no he's not one bad seed, theres wouldnt be abu ghraib and the masacre's in haditha, Jalalabad and mazar among many, many others

dude, mega dosing phera has made you an angry man

acts of bravery like jumping on grenades or in the line of fire is real dude, it's a selfless act that comes with the ultimate gift of all, one's life, it's a shame george bush couldn't do that to save a few lives, he's do us all a favour.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

dude, mega dosing phera has made you an angry man

acts of bravery like jumping on grenades or in the line of fire is real dude, it's a selfless act that comes with the ultimate gift of all, one's life, it's a shame george bush couldn't do that to save a few lives, he's do us all a favour.

It goes against ever natural instict of a human to survive. It is complete selflessness and it absolutely amazes me. If I saw a grenade my reaction would be to get out ASAP. But this guy's instict is to dive on it and save his friends.

That blows my mind. True Hero, I dont care what the hell he's done in life.

 

[futurepilot]

dude, mega dosing phera has made you an angry man.

Indeed it has, doesnt change the fact that twice now, Pat tillmann and lessica lynch were proved to be false storys created for propaganda. I'm all for american heros my grandfathers fought in WWI and II, my dad was in naval aviation during vietnam, and i know a few people serving right now, im not saying acts of heroism dont happen everyday, im saying that the ones that make the news are heavily slanted.

 

[b unit]

Indeed it has, doesnt change the fact that twice now, Pat tillmann and lessica lynch were proved to be false storys created for propaganda. I'm all for american heros my grandfathers fought in WWI and II, my dad was in naval aviation during vietnam, and i know a few people serving right now, im not saying acts of heroism dont happen everyday, im saying that the ones that make the news are heavily slanted.

i agree with you on that FP, Jessica lynch have killed it for the real deal heros outhere.

 

[RobInKuwait]

How come these guys always jump on the grenade. I've read a dozen storys recently about guys dying by jumping on grenades, or jumped into the line of fire to save a friend. I dont know if i buy it, after the Pat Tillman, and that girl that turned out to be made up storys it seems like one too many "dependable friend with a big heart and a carefree spirit" are getting killed.

Where the news reports that go...He lived life as an a$$hole, F#ck em, and heres tom with the weather. A kid i know from high school is fighting overseas right now and hopefully they never give him a he was a good guy speech, he's killed little kids, f'd his wife in the A untill she bled on their wedding night and more, and no he's not one bad seed, theres wouldnt be abu ghraib and the masacre's in haditha, Jalalabad and mazar among many, many others

Go enlist and serve your country in Iraq. I guarantee you won't badmouth Soldiers who died in combat after you see your buddy burned to death in front of you.

Pat Tillman died from friendly fire but he did give up a multi-million dollar a year job to serve and die for our country. To diminish his sacrifice because it was an accident is ignorant.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Go enlist and serve your country in Iraq. I guarantee you won't badmouth Soldiers who died in combat after you see your buddy burned to death in front of you.

Pat Tillman died from friendly fire but he did give up a multi-million dollar a year job to serve and die for our country. To diminish his sacrifice because it was an accident is ignorant.

I agree 100%

I sense some tangential force tugging here, I just put this out there to show what a hero this guy is. Prayers for him and his family.

 

[b unit]

Go enlist and serve your country in Iraq. I guarantee you won't badmouth Soldiers who died in combat after you see your buddy burned to death in front of you.

Pat Tillman died from friendly fire but he did give up a multi-million dollar a year job to serve and die for our country. To diminish his sacrifice because it was an accident is ignorant.

your thoughts on Jessica Lynch?

i for one commend any soldier who not only fights in iraq but fights anywhere in this world while the "leaders" who send them there sleep safely thousands of miles way.

 

[RobInKuwait]

your thoughts on Jessica Lynch?

i for one commend any soldier who not only fights in iraq but fights anywhere in this world while the "leaders" who send them there sleep safely thousands of miles way.

Lynch sucks. The media and army PR was dying for a cute little blond to be todays "modern day hero". I don't think it was a calculated move to bill her as a hero, I just think they didn't do their homework before they sold the story.

 

[RobInKuwait]

I agree 100%

I sense some tangential force tugging here, I just put this out there to show what a hero this guy is. Prayers for him and his family.

He is a hero and thank you for posting it.

 

[Jayhawkk]

A hero indeed and I know Men and Women with the inner courage to do what most people could not imagine doing. Be glad there are people out there that do these things so you don't have to.

There are always false stories and slanted opinions but if you're so jaded and pessimistic that the first thing when you think of, when you hear a story like this is what you typed, then you, my friend, need to surround yourself with more positive people... I'm a cop for God's sake and I didn't even have that idea in my head and I hate people for the most part!

 

[futurepilot]

Go enlist and serve your country in Iraq. I guarantee you won't badmouth Soldiers who died in combat after you see your buddy burned to death in front of you.

Pat Tillman died from friendly fire but he did give up a multi-million dollar a year job to serve and die for our country. To diminish his sacrifice because it was an accident is ignorant.

A bad person is a bad person no matter the circumstances of their death. And i wont bother to get in a dicussion with you about the current state of our foreign and domestic policy.

I wasn't making light of his sacrifice i feel bad for his family, but when you die on the job, even as a police officer, the government doesnt use you as a political pawn. The army is just a job right now, maybe at one time it was an altruistic venture, but it has become a substitute for college, and a catch all for people who dont know what else to do.

I used to work at a plant with 2 USMC and i quizzed them to no end about there service, these are their opinions too. They left the army with no skills, 1 guy was PTSD, and they were making $10 an hour.

 

[futurepilot]

I hate people for the most part!

thats just about par for the course i think.

 

[Jayhawkk]

having doubts and wanting to know the truth is fine but there are no outside reports, as of yet, to believe this story to be false...

When in basic training the guy in front of me pulled the pin on the grenade and in a panic fit he dropped the grenade on the ground at their feet. The Drill Sergeant threw the kid out of the pit and threw himself on top of him. Not some long time battle buddy or friend but a fresh recruit at 18 years old. People sacrifice their well being and life all the time. some with bad endings like the story in this thread.

When I joined the Army it was to get a job and as I gained time and experience in the military it became a way of life and a way of thinking. Sure, there are *******s and bad guys all throughout the military but you could be 22 years old and led a semi- butthead experience because life never tested you to the limits of your being. It's when people shine during those darkest times, is when it counts, imho.

 

[b unit]

:goodpost:

 

[futurepilot]

having doubts and wanting to know the truth is fine but there are no outside reports, as of yet, to believe this story to be false...

Agreed, im going to go with b-unit on this one and say im Uber agressive recently.

Anywho, i agree but i try to keep myself up on current events, i read the newspaper etc and you would be surprised how many storys come out with what seems like an A-Typical story, smal town boy falls on grenade saves company, eye witness testimony from fellow soldier that sustained minor injuries and is forever thankful. Its just seems spoonfed.

Those fighting for this country who believe TRULY that they are helping people have my utmost respect, it is those soldiers that want to kill them some towel heads, and the like, that make it hard for any rational person to support the troops. When we as a country support the sexually molestation of prisoners, and the murder of innocent civilians under the guise of "supporting the troops" becasue no one wants to be the lone voice of dissent, thats what scares me.

And faked news storys are just the face of the machine behind the scenes.

 

[Maverick60]

i try to keep myself up on current events, i read the newspaper etc and you would be surprised how many storys come out with what seems like an A-Typical story, smal town boy falls on grenade saves company, eye witness testimony from fellow soldier that sustained minor injuries and is forever thankful.

Can you do me a favor and actually count all those stories you claim to see about a man falling on a grenade to save his friends. It doesnt happen all that often. Thats why this man is receiving the nations highest military honor. They dont hand those out for anything less than an incredible act of selfless bravery.

And they are men, not boys. 18 year olds here in the comfort of the states may still be boys, but anyone who has fought in Iraq is a man. If your friend killed little kids, he should be in prison. If he killed kids during a war, Ill just assume you dont know the details and are just assuming.

There are not nearly enough stories about the heros of todays military in the news. Every day there are men over there doing things that would make normal people back home **** their pants and crawl into a corner, but instead they do what they have to do. Instead of hearing about all of that, all we get on the news channels is another story about the number of casualties. It takes a Metal of Honor being awarded to make a headline of something positive. Its bullsht.

If you want someone to blame for whats in the media, blame the ****in media.

 

[RobInKuwait]

Those fighting for this country who believe TRULY that they are helping people have my utmost respect, it is those soldiers that want to kill them some towel heads, and the like, that make it hard for any rational person to support the troops. When we as a country support the sexually molestation of prisoners, and the murder of innocent civilians under the guise of "supporting the troops" becasue no one wants to be the lone voice of dissent, thats what scares me.

And faked news storys are just the face of the machine behind the scenes.

FP, you act as though the majority of Soldiers over there are engaged in war crimes. Your making a generalization about the activities of Soldiers over there based upon a couple of stories you've heard through a liberal media.

There have been almost a million Soldiers, Sailors and Marines in Iraq for the last 5 years risking their lives seeing death firsthand every day. Yes, some have done the wrong thing at times, but the vast majority do the right thing and represent themselves and their nation with honor and dignity.

If you were to take cameras to any war....the Civil War, Korea, Vietnam, WW1, and WW2, you'd find Soldiers doing things that are immoral. War is hell. Constant death and destruction sucks the humanity out of Soldiers. If you went there and live through it you would understand that. But to talk bad about the fighting men who die for your country based upon a couple of conversations with former marines and watching TV is ignorant and disrespectful.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Can you do me a favor and actually count all those stories you claim to see about a man falling on a grenade to save his friends. It doesnt happen all that often. Thats why this man is receiving the nations highest military honor. They dont hand those out for anything less than an incredible act of selfless bravery.

And they are men, not boys. 18 year olds here in the comfort of the states may still be boys, but anyone who has fought in Iraq is a man. If your friend killed little kids, he should be in prison. If he killed kids during a war, Ill just assume you dont know the details and are just assuming.

There are not nearly enough stories about the heros of todays military in the news. Every day there are men over there doing things that would make normal people back home **** their pants and crawl into a corner, but instead they do what they have to do. Instead of hearing about all of that, all we get on the news channels is another story about the number of casualties. It takes a Metal of Honor being awarded to make a headline of something positive. Its bullsht.

If you want someone to blame for whats in the media, blame the ****in media.

Mav I couldn't agree with you more. Nice post.

Future - I'm sure those weren't his parents in the white house crying when Bush handed them the CMH. Bush's aids probably said "yea we know your kid died in an IED attack but lets say he dove on a grenade, we'll give you a medal, just come make it look good." Its amazing how the displeasure with the current administration can overshadow everyone's lives like this.

What is even more bullshit is that this whole "failed war" is actually working now but you don't hear anything about it from the media.

This kid is a hero. End of story.

 

[futurepilot]

If he killed kids during a war, Ill just assume you dont know the details and are just assuming.

His family told me, and he's told me other storys along the same lines. i went to his graduation with his family at fort benning, then we drove over to ft. gordon while he got settled in, Ive known the kid for a good while.


and articles? heres just a few.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-19-Grenade_N.htm

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Actions-of-Afghan-grenade-hero.3939788.jp

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2004/12/hero_in_falluja.php

And about storys from the liberal media? how about atrocites confirmed by the US military

http://www.greenleft.org.au/2007/707/36699

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html

this case has been proven and settled, sending at least one marine to jail for murder.


these are just a few small cases of what im talking about, if you pay attention to AP reports, not our US television, you'll get a much better perspective of the war, and the world in general.

 

[futurepilot]

If you were to take cameras to any war....the Civil War, Korea, Vietnam, WW1, and WW2, you'd find Soldiers doing things that are immoral. War is hell.

Constant death and destruction sucks the humanity out of Soldiers..

I agree past wars were just as bad, if not worse.

You make a choice in life, when you face your two roads in the yellow wood, you must take the path less traveled by.

 

[RobInKuwait]

You make a choice in life, when you face your two roads in the yellow wood, you must take the path less traveled by.

Its a lot harder to make that choice when 7 year olds are shooting at you with AK47s and those roads are covered in IEDs.

All I am saying FP, is that its easy to judge others from thousands of miles away in the comfort of your living room, not looking your own mortality in the face.

This war has blurred the line between combatants and non-combatants. Woman and children are actively engaging US Soldiers with rifles and improvised explosive devices. When that happens kids will die.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I agree past wars were just as bad, if not worse.

Uhm, hello.. vietnam? lol.

This is a drop in the bucket compared to Nam.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

His family told me, and he's told me other storys along the same lines. i went to his graduation with his family at fort benning, then we drove over to ft. gordon while he got settled in, Ive known the kid for a good while.


and articles? heres just a few.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-19-Grenade_N.htm

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Actions-of-Afghan-grenade-hero.3939788.jp

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2004/12/hero_in_falluja.php

And about storys from the liberal media? how about atrocites confirmed by the US military

http://www.greenleft.org.au/2007/707/36699

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html

this case has been proven and settled, sending at least one marine to jail for murder.


these are just a few small cases of what im talking about, if you pay attention to AP reports, not our US television, you'll get a much better perspective of the war, and the world in general.

Funny... most of these cases involving the "murderous marines" are judged before they even get to trial. The media likes to convict regardless of what evidence may be available.

I've donated $$$ to Michael Savage's cause to support the attorneys defending our troops.

lol.. if they bring the draft back and you end up in the service remind me not to dive on any grenades for you.

 

[slow-mun]

Its a lot harder to make that choice when 7 year olds are shooting at you with AK47s and those roads are covered in IEDs.

All I am saying FP, is that its easy to judge others from thousands of miles away in the comfort of your living room, not looking your own mortality in the face.

This war has blurred the line between combatants and non-combatants. Woman and children are actively engaging US Soldiers with rifles and improvised explosive devices. When that happens kids will die.

:goodpost:I'm a veteran of OEF & OIF and I have to agree with your post 100%. I actually find it disrespectful that people like FB, who have no personal experience in a uniform, would make such generalizations. I have read this thread since yesterday, but I have been trying to stay out of this arguement. It took me a long time to come to grips with what I saw and did overseas, but to be honest I probably wouldn't change a thing. I am alive today, b/c of choices that most couldn't even comprehend. If they tried, they'd most certainly be deemed barbaric or inhumane. The private that jumped on the grenade was a hero. Heroes don't usually live, but they allow others to do so through their selfless actions. Most of us veterans still breathing today would consider ourselves lucky and not heroes. If you(FP) want to argue the legitimacy of a dead soldier's heroism then I feel sorry for you. I almost wish AP reports could teach you(FP)some humility, so that you wouldn't type posts that make you appear to be so naive and for the most part immature.

 

[slow-mun]

I agree past wars were just as bad, if not worse.

You make a choice in life, when you face your two roads in the yellow wood, you must take the path less traveled by.

The choices soldiers have to make in the world are not in the least bit "black or white" and you are no Robert Frost.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

:goodpost:I'm a veteran of OEF & OIF and I have to agree with your post 100%. I actually find it disrespectful that people like FB, who have no personal experience in a uniform, would make such generalizations. I have read this thread since yesterday, but I have been trying to stay out of this arguement. It took me a long time to come to grips with what I saw and did overseas, but to be honest I probably wouldn't change a thing. I am alive today, b/c of choices that most couldn't even comprehend. If they tried, they'd most certainly be deemed barbaric or inhumane. The private that jumped on the grenade was a hero. Heroes don't usually live, but they allow others to do so through their selfless actions. Most of us veterans still breathing today would consider ourselves lucky and not heroes. If you(FP) want to argue the legitimacy of a dead soldier's heroism then I feel sorry for you. I almost wish AP reports could teach you(FP)some humility, so that you wouldn't type posts that make you appear to be so naive and for the most part immature.

Agree.

FWIW Any veteran is a hero in my book. Risking your life to preserve ours... thank you for your service.

 

[b unit]

FP, i think you should direct your frustrations to the pentagon officials especially the media advisors (who take advice from hollywood producers) who spoon feed ill informed information to the media who in turn twist the stories to be sensationlised and eaten up by the majority of viewers and readers who need to be "stimulated" usually in a negative way because bad news sells. Once in a while but very really does a good news story (Army Pfc. Ross McGinnis act of bravery) make it through and it's usually only made through to suit the pentagon and white house first and foremost and not the general population. Acts of bravery are happening everyday over there, i think anyone who sets foot on enemy soil and believes in what they're doing is acting bravely and deserves way more than a medal.

90% of the real news doesn't make it through to the media.

 

[futurepilot]

Funny... most of these cases involving the "murderous marines" are judged before they even get to trial. The media likes to convict regardless of what evidence may be available.

I've donated $$$ to Michael Savage's cause to support the attorneys defending our troops.

lol.. if they bring the draft back and you end up in the service remind me not to dive on any grenades for you.

theres definitly a trial by media that any news story gets, doesnt change the guilt of the marines in haditha that killed a whole family in retaliation for what a relative of theres may or may not have done.

Michael Savage is an imbecile, please dont tell me you support him or ill have to post some of his quotes, and unless your a early 1900's Klu Klux Clan member, it may reflect badly on you.

If they bring back the draft i would join up to have choice, i will have a college degree by the next time we invade a country so ill be commisioned anyways.

 

[futurepilot]

it's usually only made through to suit the pentagon and white house first and foremost QUOTE]

X2

 

[futurepilot]

The choices soldiers have to make in the world are not in the least bit "black or white" and you are no Robert Frost.

I know i was just paraphrasing, its used to illustrate a point using words by someone else.

And everything is black and white, grey is called excuses. So your saying that the Nazis were justified because it was war time? Or the current food crisis in Haiti is fine because it was caused by the military? Or the genocide in the sudan is fine because it done by soldiers? Or mass murders the happened in cambodia are justified becasue they were done by soldiers? Or our wholesale slaughter of native americans was justified because it was done by soldiers? Or when we gave native americans small pox on the trail of tears our government was justified?

 

[futurepilot]

All I am saying FP, is that its easy to judge others from thousands of miles away in the comfort of your living room, not looking your own mortality in the face.

Im quite sure that i have only a small grasp of what its like over there, ive seen and done things in my life, but nothing like taking over another country then enforcing our laws on them. Im sure half the people hate us over there, men, women, and children. And to be frank, if its kill or be killed, im a young man, and im not dying without a fight, regardless of who the person shooting at me is.

All I was trying to get across is that this is like when then doctor waves a little bunny at you while he injects you in the other arm, its a diversion while were getting stuck in the ass with whats really going on, and the last two major public diversions were skewed to fit public policy so why shouldnt this be suspect?

America is still the greatest country on earth,that why everyone trys to come here, but we have the smallest collective brain of any country. We have the tools to be great but the unwillingness to do so.

 

[Jayhawkk]

And everything is black and white, grey is called excuses.

This statement has caused me to disregard any of your posts... If you honestly believe this then there is really no debating with you.

 

[RobInKuwait]

I know i was just paraphrasing, its used to illustrate a point using words by someone else.

And everything is black and white, grey is called excuses. So your saying that the Nazis were justified because it was war time? Or the current food crisis in Haiti is fine because it was caused by the military? Or the genocide in the sudan is fine because it done by soldiers? Or mass murders the happened in cambodia are justified becasue they were done by soldiers? Or our wholesale slaughter of native americans was justified because it was done by soldiers? Or when we gave native americans small pox on the trail of tears our government was justified?

This is like trying to talk to an anorexic college student about bulking.

You have never been in a situation where you could understand what the Soldiers face over there. Accept that. The best thing you could do is try learn about the horrors OIF veterans have had to endure. Then try to learn from their experiences before you develop your own conclusions.

Quizzing two former Marines, going to liberal college classes, and watching CNN does not equal learning from OIF veterans.

 

[futurepilot]

Its amazing how the displeasure with the current administration can overshadow everyone's lives like this.

The Administration had nothing to do with this. Im sick of everyone in america hating george bush. Half of america voted for him, twice. And now all of a sudden no one ever liked him. It wasnt him that started the war it was congress. Without their apporoval he would just be another president instead of a hot topic for pseudointellectuals who probly voted for him to begin with.

 

[futurepilot]

Quizzing two former Marines, going to liberal college classes, and watching CNN does not equal learning from OIF veterans.

I dont know when liberal became a bad word but its was probly sometime after gay stopped meaning happy. But i hope you dont think that college makes you dumber while the army makes you smarter?

And i dont know if i didnt clarify myself but i watch BBC world news, if any, and mostly read AP reuters reports, independant news sources.

And Jayhawk, what do you mean theres no debating with me? Ive produced nothing but valid points backed by proof and the rebuttal has been nothing but opinions, and attacks on both on my mental acuity, and ability to reason.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Because anyone unwilling to accept that there is a constant sliding scale has no room to be debatable. People that believe in no grey area, also believe there is no difference in an action, regardless of the other elements involved.

 

[RobInKuwait]

I dont know when liberal became a bad word but its was probly sometime after gay stopped meaning happy. But i hope you dont think that college makes you dumber while the army makes you smarter?

I've spent 4 years in college and served 6.5 years as an Army Officer. The army made me smarter and much more worldly. College was a waste of time. This is especially true when the subject we are talking about is WAR.

And i dont know if i didnt clarify myself but i watch BBC world news, if any, and mostly read AP reuters reports, independant news sources.

Great.

And Jayhawk, what do you mean theres no debating with me? Ive produced nothing but valid points backed by proof and the rebuttal has been nothing but opinions, and attacks on both on my mental acuity, and ability to reason.

Thats true, you've made valid arguments. The problem is they're all based on the faulty premise that you know what a service member experiences at wartime.

You're smart....but you would actually sound smart if you listened to people who have experienced things you haven't. Slow-mum has been to OIF, yet you don't listen to a word he says.

 

[futurepilot]

there is no difference in an action, regardless of the other elements involved.

I think ill put that on my tombstone, i may not be robert frost but your William Jayhawkk Shakespeare for sure.

Agree to disagree then, im not trying to get everyone pissed at me, cause i like it here, and while im sure ive made many enemies with this thread its just one mans opinion, sitting hundreds if not thousands of miles away behind a computer screen, locked in my flesh colored prison with no key to get out. I may be immature, i may be naive, i may be an Ahole, i may even be ugly, but i refuse to be someone who measures each action based on solely on the opinion of others.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Hey I am liking the banter, charged as it may be. FP, let me say i'm not a bush hater... I did vote for him. Many things he has done are mindnumbingly stupid but he did put in 2 very conservative judges - which is very important for me.

You say we have the tools... what would you do if you were in control? I'm not trying to be a smartass here, I am just curious.

I for one would make military presence in the middle east a mainstay of my tenure in office. It is a necessary evil IMO.

 

[futurepilot]

yet you don't listen to a word he says.

I did, but im not trying to "argue the legitimacy of a dead soldier's heroism"(Slowmum). I was merely venting my frustration with how blindly everyone eats this stuff up when an american soldier dies but is blind to any and all other problems in the US, not to mention the world. the president could have feed probly a dozen homeless familys with how much it money it cost to put on a press conference, instead he took that time to mention what we know happens in war every hour of everyday.

 

[Maverick60]

and articles? heres just a few.

I think you missed one. But not many more. Point is, dont question the legitimacy of a Metal of Honor recipient. Its legit. You dont read stories of men doing that all of the time.

About your friend, I wasnt implying that it didnt happen when I assumed you didnt know the details, I just said you probably dont know the details. I had friends when we were over there that recorded kids on video, no older than 8-10 years old firing RPGs and being taken out. What happens in times like that is extremely horrible, but it will always be a part of war. War will push a person so far past a breaking point that no one outside of the situation will ever understand. Being surrounded by death and overwhelming emotional distress will, and always does to a certain extend, change the way your mind functions. I dont see how any lawyer for a service member being accused of war crimes doesnt plead temporary insanity. People get away with using that in the states under far less of a justifiable situation. Its absurd that people can commit unprovoked murders on women in their home towns and claim TI, but while fighting in a WAR, youre made to be an unjustifiable criminal by people that have no idea what its like to be in that situation. /rant

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I did, but im not trying to "argue the legitimacy of a dead soldier's heroism"(Slowmum). I was merely venting my frustration with how blindly everyone eats this stuff up when an american soldier dies but is blind to any and all other problems in the US, not to mention the world. the president could have feed probly a dozen homeless familys with how much it money it cost to put on a press conference, instead he took that time to mention what we know happens in war every hour of everyday.

I started this thread because actions like that really blow my mind. I think Americans need to see that selfless acts of bravery are still a reality. I am by no means blind to any of our other problems. I live and breath politics. The point is that the public NEEDS to see things like this. All they hear is negativity in between their channel flicking from American Idol to So you think you can dance. True most people if they sat down and thought about it they would realize what happens in war but americans in general are simply to preoccupied (selfish?) to care.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I think you missed one. But not many more. Point is, dont question the legitimacy of a Metal of Honor recipient. Its legit. You dont read stories of men doing that all of the time.

About you friend, I wasnt implying that it didnt happen when I assumed you didnt know the details, I just said you probably dont know the details. I had friends when we were over there that recorded kids on video, no older than 8-10 years old firing RPGs and being taken out. What happens in times that like is extremely horrible, but it will always be a part of war. War will push a person so far past a breaking point that no one outside of the situation will ever understand. Being surrounded by death and overwhelming emotional distress will, and always does to a certain extend, change the way your mind functions. I dont see how any lawyer for a service member being accused of war crimes doesnt plead temporary insanity. People get away with using that in the states under far less of a justifiable situation. Its absurd that people can commit unprovoked murders on women in their home towns and claim TI, but while fighting in a WAR, youre made to be an unjustifiable criminal by people that have no idea what its like to be in that situation. /rant

Well said. Let me say i've donated about $2000 towards a legal fund that helps defend the soldiers targetted by these whackjobs in Washington. It may not sound like much but consider my income it is fairly substantial.

 

[RobInKuwait]

instead he took that time to mention what we know happens in war every hour of everyday.

Thats exactly it. It doesn't happen every hour of every day. Thats why the Soldier got the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Not sure why the 12 homeless families fit into the equation, but I'm more concerned about the families of the dead Soldier.

 

[futurepilot]

You say we have the tools... what would you do if you were in control? I'm not trying to be a smartass here, I am just curious.

I for one would make military presence in the middle east a mainstay of my tenure in office. It is a necessary evil IMO.

Well after the 600million dollar embassy (biggest in the world) we just built in baghdad, you'll get your wish for sure. Were never leaving there and most people should realize that pretty soon. Its going to be another japan/korea/germany/guam etc

Im an isolationist. F#ck the middle east, they've hated each other longer than theres been written language, were not fixing it in our life time. I would concentrate all resources on OUR people, not everyone elses.

 

[KurtisWicked]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Thought this would be appropriate.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Thought this would be appropriate.

Dang no sound at work.. lol

:djparty:

 

[futurepilot]

Thats exactly it. It doesn't happen every hour of every day. Thats why the Soldier got the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Not sure why the 12 homeless families fit into the equation, but I'm more concerned about the families of the dead Soldier.

I was refering more towards acts of bravey not specifically the grenade scenario.

Its about allocation of funds, bush could have just had them come to a private meeting. the money spent on a press conference could have been spent in any number of better ways, including taking care of kids in familys here that have no where warm to sleep because their parents lost their jobs.