Short bus unloads at AM

[Chicken]

Ive been a member here for a couple years under different names. Lately I am seeing alot of BB fallacies being reproduced by our newest "experts" . I don't claim to be an expert but I am an expert in fact finding. For those who feel the need to google information and state it here as fact, please list your source of information so that our newest members can find their own truth. Much of BB'ing is theoretical anyhow, and the more experienced know what works for them is not as effective for another. Let's stop flaming threads based on theoretics please.

 

[T-Bone]

Much of BB'ing is theoretical anyhow, and the more experienced know what works for them is not as effective for another. .

I completely disagree with what you are saying....



Now I know this thread will progress into a never-ending one with constant back-and-fourth.

 

[bpmartyr]

In for the ride.

 

[CryingEmo]

Ive been a member here for a couple years under different names. Lately I am seeing alot of BB fallacies being reproduced by our newest "experts" . I don't claim to be an expert but I am an expert in fact finding. For those who feel the need to google information and state it here as fact, please list your source of information so that our newest members can find their own truth. Much of BB'ing is theoretical anyhow, and the more experienced know what works for them is not as effective for another. Let's stop flaming threads based on theoretics please.

That was mean.

I only rode the short bus because our school couldn't afford a normal sized one.

 

[matthew76]

Chicken, I've spent the last 12 years of my life studying human anatomy, EX. Science, Sports Reahb amoung all the CERTs I have for CPT from highly respected places... So please, you made a post stating BB'ing is a theory, now please give me the facts and source for that. Let's get this ON!

I am in... Looking forward to this one!!!

Although, I will be away from my COM for a few, I WILL RETURN!!! MUHAHAHAHAH! {{{Evil Laugh}}}

 

[lifted]

Lately I am seeing alot of BB fallacies being reproduced by our newest "experts".

Agreed, glad someone finally said it. Lot's of "GURU'S" here anymore, no? lmao

 

[T-Bone]

Agreed, glad someone finally said it. Lot's of "GURU'S" here anymore, no? lmao

Well I do agree with that part. Some people are even giving advice on cycles and PCT when they have never ever run a cycle....This thread is just gonna cause arguments though and won't solve anything...Drama anyone?

 

[bpmartyr]

Well I do agree with that part. Some people are even giving advice on cycles and post cycle therapy when they have never ever run a cycle....This thread is just gonna cause arguments though and won't solve anything...Drama anyone?

Is it ... "Evil drama?"

 

[UNCfan1]

I am by no means an expert and I make that comment many times. But with that said on the 3 boards I go to there are a few guys I hold in regards and respect alot. This is may fav board because there are alot of knowledge guys here. The guru comment was not needed cause if u ask the guys that u think are gurus they will tell u they hate that term.

Most of the discussions here can go on wthout flaming unless something really stupid is mentioned, which is really nice.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Ive been a member here for a couple years under different names. Lately I am seeing alot of BB fallacies being reproduced by our newest "experts" . I don't claim to be an expert but I am an expert in fact finding. For those who feel the need to google information and state it here as fact, please list your source of information so that our newest members can find their own truth. Much of BB'ing is theoretical anyhow, and the more experienced know what works for them is not as effective for another. Let's stop flaming threads based on theoretics please.

It's kind of ironic you didn't source this post, don't you think?

:think:

Seriously though, I do not see many, unless it is for a purposeful writeup, citing their sources in an everyday post. Just as I do not carry around an Encyclopedia collection with me on a cart to bust one out each time I unload a 'fact' on somebody.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Chicken, I've spent the last 12 years of my life studying human anatomy, EX. Science, Sports Reahb amoung all the CERTs I have for CPT from highly respected places... So please, you made a post stating BB'ing is a theory, now please give me the facts and source for that. Let's get this ON!

I am in... Looking forward to this one!!!

Although, I will be away from my COM for a few, I WILL RETURN!!! MUHAHAHAHAH! {{{Evil Laugh}}}

I'm not necessarily agreeing with our man Chicken here, but I do feel the theoretical point is somewhat valid. The BB'ing world is a niche, both from a consumer product and athletic performance standpoint. The specific activities we are doing, and therein the pathways they are being mediated throughm do not have massive bodies of research (comparatively) behind them. Especially as it pertains to anabolic steroids and 'gray market' supplements, which I think is what Chicken was mostly alluding to. There has either been very little or no research conducted on both the legal supplements we are using (talking specific analogues, phytos, etc., not base plants) in the application we are using them, as well as illegal anabolics (once again, not talking Vida, but studies to gauge the effect of long term, high-dose use in a BB'ing application). And, unfortunately, because BB'ing is not a sport which draws external advertising revenue, and, even more unfortunately, illegitimate mainstream interest in the form of viewing top competitors as sideshow freaks, I imagine this trend will continue.

So, is it theoretical to state which co-activator proteins and Estrogen receptors Tamoxifen mediates? No. However, it is completely theoretical which doses the community uses at times, and it is also theoretical Tamoxifen's combination with the OTC supplements we use in conjunction with it. I would definitely say the base mechanisms which underpin the physiology of BB'ing are not theoretical in anyway, however, the way we are modulating them is.

 

[Chicken]

Chicken, I've spent the last 12 years of my life studying human anatomy, EX. Science, Sports Reahb amoung all the CERTs I have for CPT from highly respected places... So please, you made a post stating BB'ing is a theory, now please give me the facts and source for that. Let's get this ON!

I am in... Looking forward to this one!!!

Although, I will be away from my COM for a few, I WILL RETURN!!! MUHAHAHAHAH! {{{Evil Laugh}}}

I wasn't trying to flame the knowledgeable peeps.

Ok, just because you study a discipline does not make it factual. In most science disciplines you would learn that "science" is no more than a practice of applying theories and laws. So are you telling me that everything you study is an accepted and approved law by the science community? In order for something to be factual (law) it must be accepted by the highest board of peers.

With this understanding there are laws and theories in BB'ing. One needs to eat to grow this is probably an accepted fact. What one needs to eat to grow is a theory. Remember the high carb, low protein diet back in the 80's ? We have experts who agree that protein is needed to grow but how much? Who is the highest governing board of bbing, to approve the so called facts? Google bodybuilding myths and one can see there is no "law" of bbing, if we really want to argue fallacies.

That said if we are going to flame or just argue for entertainment, bring it. Ive got another 12 hour shift to sit here on my phone anyhow. I can't post sources as I have no copy paste function, as is the reason I am arguing to prove these "facts of bbing". If I feel this argument is worth my intellectual time I may spend some time here on a computer this week. :food:

 

[Hurleyboy05]

I think people usually just come here to get ideas, and then mould them into their own style. I know I use this place as a reference, not a guide... If you come here and expect to learn exactly how you should do something, you'll be disappointed. Nothing works exactly the same for everyone, you gotta remember your body is different from everybody elses, so find what works for you.

 

[Chicken]

I think people usually just come here to get ideas, and then mould them into their own style. I know I use this place as a reference, not a guide... If you come here and expect to learn exactly how you should do something, you'll be disappointed. Nothing works exactly the same for everyone, you gotta remember your body is different from everybody elses, so find what works for you.

This was the reason for this thread. Newbs don't always understand what they are reading is not factual and in some cases get flamed for trying thier own methods.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Which is why I usually add "in my opinion or in my experience" to my statements/advice. However, even in science, you can see how one accepted truth or fact can change in a short amount of time as more understanding about a subject surfaces. Bbing is no different and unfortunately suffers from much more of this 'swing' due to Mullet's reasonings above.

 

[jmh80]

Eh - who cares.

The world is governed by the laws of thermodynamics. Never violate them and you will be OK.

 

[slow-mun]

Eh, I've changed my opinions on several things over time, b/c of my personal experiences with them. This isn't an exact science by any means and I believe Mulletsoldier hit all of the reasons for that. I might suggest certain things, but I'm no expert by any means. I just hate when people throw up studies to contradict my personal experiences with certain products. I have had this happen with certain company reps and I even had studies to support my stance on the issue. There's too many variables for someone to make conclusions about supplement science IMO. Just because something is naturally occurring or even found in the body does not make it safe to take in large or altered amounts for an extended period of time.

 

[methodice]

No need to waste time talking about a vague criticism of certain "experts". Chicken and others, when you notice some advice (in any thread or post) that would benefit from substantiation via sources, or to point out that you don't agree with the post info as you have read differently, then raise it in that particular thread. Even if you are unsure about such and such due to lack of evidence, raise that uncertainty too.

We will all benefit when you do this Chicken. Thanks for raising the issue.

 

[Marshall]

I think people usually just come here to get ideas, and then mould them into their own style. I know I use this place as a reference, not a guide... If you come here and expect to learn exactly how you should do something, you'll be disappointed. Nothing works exactly the same for everyone, you gotta remember your body is different from everybody elses, so find what works for you.

I couldn't agree more. This board is a good resource when used as part of an overall research approach using many sources. I've been given really good advice by people on the board (actually by some on this thread) in the past. I do agree that it would be nice to see more claims appropriately referenced to the original source. Still, overall we can probably agree this forum is a valuable tool. :thumbsup:

 

[thesinner]

There is absolutely no need to start a thread about me (while trying to keep it anonymous) behind my back. The form of transportation I take to school, the blue Cooper SK2000 hockey helmet I wear whenever in public, and my score on the WAIS are nothing for debate.

 

[warnerve]

Which is why I usually add "in my opinion or in my experience" to my statements/advice.

agreed, i try to do the same. i would say i agree with the OP too, a lot of times we tell people things as if it were gospel and in reality different things work for different people in some aspects, i.e. what is overtraining? What method of training/split is best? Different diets work for different people too. A lot of times these debates get personal and people get upset, and I just think it's unnecessary, we are all just here to improve ourselves. That said, there are a lot of good guidelines to follow and there is still a lot of good advice given as well

 

[Chicken]

Its good to see the feedback here is actually thought out. I too think mullet basically restated my opinion in a more comprehensive way. I tend to be illiterate and dislexic when here on my phone. I too will back up my opinion more with links and/or emphasize my stated "opinion" .

 

[B5150]

Where's Anye? :rofl:

 

[neoborn]

It's an elemental truth known throughout the ages that Squats n Deads pump T to about 10,000% above normal ranges. Please disprove

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[skull]

ok lets get this started --Not one prohormone,d-steroid--will ever stand up to real gear--agreed?

 

[bpmartyr]

ok lets get this started --Not one prohormone,d-steroid--will ever stand up to real gear--agreed?

Can you clarify what you mean by prohormone and d-steroid?

 

[Jayhawkk]

designer? Plus you have to clarify "stand up" because with your vague statement I will have to politely disagree.

 

[skull]

Can you clarify what you mean by prohormone and d-steroid?

View Poll Results: Best prohormone/designer of all time?
4AD 20 5.76%
1AD 35 10.09%
1,4ADD 8 2.31%
M1T 52 14.99%
Nordiol 1 0.29%
M4OHN 12 3.46%
Superdrol & Knockoffs 134 38.62%
Pheraplex 42 12.10%
Halodrol 36 10.37%
MegaTRN 7 2.02%
MegaTST---------------------------------------------------------------------with the exception of M1t--thats real

 

[thesinner]

Depeding on who you ask. Someone might put such things as M1T, 1-Testosterone, and Stenbolone Base (usually with little bits and chunks of oxymetholone in it) in with the designer/pH crowd.

We might also add that the term "designer steroid" doesn't mean active steroid someone was able to market as a supplement, but rather any sort of loophole. At a certain point a lot of what you're referring to as "real gear" was in fact a "designer steroid".

And now you're saying "stand up against", and I don't quite know what that might mean. Anabolic Ratio? If that's your implications, then I am sorry, but you are sadly mistaken.
Designer steroids with a higher anabolic ratio that test (off the top of my head):
-desoxymethyltestosterone
-methyldrostanolone
-methylepithiostanol
-methyldehydroboldenone
-dehydroboldenone

Of course, the quality of said "designers" is debatable.

 

[skull]

designer? Plus you have to clarify "stand up" because with your vague statement I will have to politely disagree.

STAND UP --meaning gains that stay with you long after cycle is done

 

[T-Bone]

View Poll Results: Best prohormone/designer of all time?
4AD 20 5.76%
1AD 35 10.09%
1,4ADD 8 2.31%
M1T 52 14.99%
Nordiol 1 0.29%
M4OHN 12 3.46%
Superdrol & Knockoffs 134 38.62%
Pheraplex 42 12.10%
Halodrol 36 10.37%
MegaTRN 7 2.02%
MegaTST---------------------------------------------------------------------with the exception of M1t--thats real

Thats from mostly punks that chose SD and knockoffs, they were not old enough to ever try 1test/4ad. SD is the worst "In my opinion".

 

[skull]

Depeding on who you ask. Someone might put such things as M1T, 1-Testosterone, and Stenbolone Base (usually with little bits and chunks of oxymetholone in it) in with the designer/pH crowd.

We might also add that the term "designer steroid" doesn't mean active steroid someone was able to market as a supplement, but rather any sort of loophole. At a certain point a lot of what you're referring to as "real gear" was in fact a "designer steroid".
And now you're saying "stand up against", and I don't quite know what that might mean. Anabolic Ratio? If that's your implications, then I am sorry, but you are sadly mistaken.
Designer steroids with a higher anabolic ratio that test (off the top of my head):
-desoxymethyltestosterone
-methyldrostanolone
-methylepithiostanol
-methyldehydroboldenone
-dehydroboldenone

Of course, the quality of said "designers" is debatable.

The term d-steriod is misleading because im mostly refering to what the averge person can get--things [for example B BONDS took REAL]

 

[thesinner]

STAND UP --meaning gains that stay with you long after cycle is done

Whoa, now you're really generalizing things.

To 4 weeks of straight Drol, and see if you still want to stand by you definition of "stand up". You're missing a very important clause with your original post.

Now you're comparing Esterified injectables to oral designers. One has a half life (depending on the ester) ranging from 2-18 DAYS, the other has a half life ranging about 4-10 HOURS.

You don't suppose that plays an integral role in sustainability, do ya ? :think:

 

[skull]

Whoa, now you're really generalizing things.

To 4 weeks of straight Drol, and see if you still want to stand by you definition of "stand up". You're missing a very important clause with your original post.

Now you're comparing Esterified injectables to oral designers. One has a half life (depending on the ester) ranging from 2-18 DAYS, the other has a half life ranging about 4-10 HOURS.

You don't suppose that plays an integral role in sustainability, do ya ? :think:

OK Ill clarify --after the drug has completly cleared the system [active life ,halflife] real gear wins

 

[T-Bone]

All these designers is when the PH market died. People seem not to know the difference between a PH and an active steroid anymore. It started with M1T and then everyone had to come out with Methylated toxic steroids with total dis-regard and blindness to the health problems these products can cause. It is just "add support supplements". Then people think if they add these support supplements into the mix they are fine. No just trying to "cover up" or "mask" the toxic effects of one substance with another "support supplement" isn't going to help you, its just that much more your liver has to break down(if it can)......Believe it or not people used to take their health seriously. People used to never stack two methyl products. People on this board seem to just do one cycle after another after another of Toxic Steroids.....


IN MY OPINION

 

[rhunt000]

Is it ... "Evil drama?"


View attachment 19509

Now that was frickin' funny!

 

[thesinner]

The term d-steriod is misleading because im mostly refering to what the averge person can get--things [for example B BONDS took REAL]

Now you're comparing apples to oranges you ain't ever tried.

tetrahydrogestrinone is nothing more than a reduced form of women's birth control. ZERO UGL's have bothered to even think of producing this. Not because they can't figure out how, but because no one with half a brain would buy it. The only reason Bonds and Jones bothered to take THG is because that was the only steroid they could get away with taking.

jeezuz, I see this on every steroid board. The media has this stuff drawn way out of proportion.

 

[skull]

All these designers is when the PH market died. People seem not to know the difference between a PH and an active steroid anymore. It started with M1T and then everyone had to come out with Methylated toxic steroids with total dis-regard and blindness to the health problems these products can cause. It is just "add support supplements". Then people think if they add these support supplements into the mix they are fine. No just trying to "cover up" or "mask" the toxic effects of one substance with another "support supplement" isn't going to help you, its just that much more your liver has to break down(if it can)......Believe it or not people used to take their health seriously. People used to never stack two methyl products. People on this board seem to just do one cycle after another after another of Toxic Steroids.....

IN MY OPINION

well the sides are included in my estimation that real gear will always win

 

[skull]

Now you're comparing apples to oranges you ain't ever tried.

tetrahydrogestrinone is nothing more than a reduced form of women's birth control. ZERO UGL's have bothered to even think of producing this. Not because they can't figure out how, but because no one with half a brain would buy it. The only reason Bonds and Jones bothered to take THG is because that was the only steroid they could get away with taking.

jeezuz, I see this on every steroid board. The media has this stuff drawn way out of proportion.

Their was a lot more componds BALCO was involved with then that --the way I understood it was they started with real gear and found a way to make it undetectable

 

[thesinner]

Their was a lot more componds BALCO was involved with then that --the way I understood it was they started with real gear and found a way to make it undetectable

One of which is a very popular designer steroid you'll find on the market today. Perhaps you've heard of Pheraplex?

 

[skull]

One of which is a very popular designer steroid you'll find on the market today. Perhaps you've heard of Pheraplex?

Yea--a good example very good at enlarging the heart to dangerous levels more that anything else out there---look up the sides of DMT

 

[T-Bone]

Yea--a good example very good at enlarging the heart to dangerous levels more that anything else out there---look up the sides of DMT

Yes, like I pointed out before, it started with M1T and went downhill from there....

 

[thesinner]

OK Ill clarify --after the drug has completly cleared the system [active life ,halflife] real gear wins

Results are also VERY skewed by the typical people who use said designers versus those who use injectables.

 

[B5150]

Believe it or not people used to take their health seriously. People used to never stack two methyl products. People on this board seem to just do one cycle after another after another of Toxic Steroids.....


IN MY OPINION

Believe it or not people still do. The irresponsible, reckless and ignorant may be a majority but they do not in any way represent what the responsible, safe, and well informed minority practice. These boards and the posters contained within are a sample of our society. Have you seen the society we live in lately? The curve drops off very sharply down both sides.

 

[Chicken]

B5150,

You really need to watch the movie "Idiocracy", it explains the future of humanity very well in my opinion. Sad part is the movie is a comedy, but I think there is real truth to it
Society has prevented evolutions "survival of the fittest" to weed out the idiots, and stop them from breeding like rabbits. Look at our friend twitch, he has 4 kids all from different mothers.
Seriously though that is one of the funniest movies Ive ever seen.

 

[Chicken]

Here is the link to the trailer for Idiocracy

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LWBSDU/empiremoviescom"]Amazon.com: Idiocracy: Luke Wilson, Maya Rudolph, Dax Shepard, Eric Anderson: Video On Demand[/ame]

 

[ReaperX]

All these designers is when the PH market died. People seem not to know the difference between a PH and an active steroid anymore. It started with M1T and then everyone had to come out with Methylated toxic steroids with total dis-regard and blindness to the health problems these products can cause. It is just "add support supplements". Then people think if they add these support supplements into the mix they are fine. No just trying to "cover up" or "mask" the toxic effects of one substance with another "support supplement" isn't going to help you, its just that much more your liver has to break down(if it can)......Believe it or not people used to take their health seriously. People used to never stack two methyl products. People on this board seem to just do one cycle after another after another of Toxic Steroids.....


IN MY OPINION

Liver Support supps like Milk Thistle/NAC are worthless and are theoretical in nature. I think there may be a few scrappy studies that compare milk thistle's liver regeneration rate with anabolic steroids, but of course the liver will repair itself even without these.

I don't think people like to face the reality that the methyls they take do a number on their liver and that's just something you gotta man up to.

Any scientific data that does NOT include a comparison of AAS+milk thistle are irrelevant due to the chemical pathways involved. I know it makes ppl feel better tho, using this stuff so i suppose that's what's most important.

 

[bpmartyr]

Liver Support supps like Milk Thistle/NAC are worthless and are theoretical in nature.

If something is theoretical it is not by necessity worthless. Why do you suppose NAC is used to treat Acetaminophen overdose?

 

[ReaperX]

If something is theoretical it is not by necessity worthless. Why do you suppose NAC is used to treat Acetaminophen overdose?

I think I should have specified my relation of liver support supps strictly to anabolic usage.

NAC is useful for acetaminophen, but acetaminophen is a vastly different compound vs. all the orals out there so that same relationship cannot be applied to anabolic steroids.

 

[bpmartyr]

I think I should have specified my relation of liver support supps strictly to anabolic usage.

NAC is useful for acetaminophen, but acetaminophen is a vastly different compound vs. all the orals out there so that same relationship cannot be applied to anabolic steroids.

Thanks for the clarification. I still stand behind my first point regarding theory and usefulness.