Genetics versus everything else
09-10-2007 01:00 PM
Genetics versus everything else
I wonder what percentage genetics would account for when determining how quickly and efficiently one can accumulate LMB? Someone with superior genetics could be producing more test and have more receptors, but not that much more test, and there has got to be limits to their size.
I like to contemplate the scenario with 2 guys. 1 with superior genetics for LBM, and the other with average or less than average genetics. Assume Guy A (superior) has a ****ty diet and sleep habbits, knows **** about nutrition and lifting, and doesn't take supplements. Guy B (inferior) has a perfect clean diet, is very knowledgable about nutrition (diet), does regular cardio, does responsible AAS cycles, etc. At what point could Guy B surpass Guy A? Very generalized question, I know. How big of a factor are genetics? Are they more than 50%?
09-10-2007 01:07 PM
I used to train with Sergio Oliva's son before I switched gyms. His workouts were not nearly as intense as mine, he trained naturally, his diet wasn't great but it way pretty good, he drank quite a bit, other party stuff, etc. He grew like a weed; he wouldn't even train his arms because they grew too quickly and were out of proportion with the rest of his body.
I train extremely intense, my diet is very solid, I don't ever drink, I ran some hard anabolic cycles that didn't really get me anywhere good. Genetics are such a huge factor. I have to work my butt off to be where I'm at (5'8, 200 lbs, roughly 12% bf). I pretty much think that if your genetics don't allow for it, it's not going to happen. Doesn't matter if it's natural or not. The way I see these pros is that training naturally, they would never look how they do; however, that doesn't mean that their genetics don't allow for them to be that big. On the other hand, someone like me, my genetics seem to limit my size quite a lot, and even off of 1g of TP a week, and 75mg Tren ed, I hardly budged in size. Some of us just weren't meant to be big people, sadly. But, I hope I'm wrong, and I'm trying to prove myself wrong by training harder and harder every week, and shoving more food in my mouth every day.
09-10-2007 01:32 PM
Genetics obviously plays a huge part in bodybuilding, but not as huge as most people try to make it seem.
99.9% of the time somebody complains about their genetics, its actually everything else thats the problem. I have so many lazy buddies that say "dude I wish I could get as big as you are, but my genetics just don't let me" as they shove a slice of pizza down their throat.
Insertion points, % of different types of muscle fibers - now THAT is genetics.
"Genetics" just seems to have become the biggest cop-out
09-10-2007 01:45 PM
I agree that people do use it as a cop-out, but for some people, it really is the biggest problem.
Originally Posted by Wedgylx
09-10-2007 03:34 PM
i hear that some people no matter what will never have nice abs or big calfs.
09-10-2007 03:42 PM
when I reread that, it didn't come out exactly as I meant it to.
Originally Posted by Irish Cannon
I'm not saying that genetics doesn't play a big role, just than more often than not it seems that "bad genetics" is actually bad dieting, poor training etc.
09-10-2007 04:31 PM
I would say that 80%+ is a genetic factor when deciding how much training and diet can be deviated from and still keep LBF while gaining muscle and strength, compared to another with everything dead on.
I know a guy who has always been the size of a house and ALWAYS ripped and eats like what you would expect from someone with 30%+ body fat.
09-11-2007 04:11 AM
genetics play a big part, over 50% id say. EX: Can a vietnamese guy with his biggest family member/relative being 150lbs get to 200lbs with awesome diet and training? I doubt it without some added anabolic help it would take over 10years for that guy to get up there with the big boys. Genetics are real. My dad has good genetic legs with not so big arms and shoulder width he does have a good back and a decent chest. Alot of this has to do with what he has worked out more etc in his life but it still holds true with me as well. Look at your fathers side and your mothers and look at body types most likely you have the same and anything other than that would be from hard work. Get what im saying?
09-12-2007 01:09 AM
IMO, genetics are a limiting factor for what we can do naturally. They're also used as a cop-out by people who don't put forth the effort. If you're trying to get huge and ripped naturally then you better be blessed with genetics. If not then fix your diet, training, and perhaps use anabolic steroids to get you where you want to be once you know what you're doing.
I've seen people with undesirable genetics make incredible progress so it's not a far fetched possibility to get your desired physique even if your genetics aren't great.
09-12-2007 01:51 AM
Genetics all the way.... theres only so much altering you can do, beofre the negatives outweigh the change and you either die or quit trying to change yourself. Youd be surprised how much your benefit from dropping all sups, eating vegetables and only eating when your hungry... ive made huuuge gains from a few months ago and need to post pics so i dont sound like a total idiot, as i myslef would have once proclaimed. back to the basics, i mean if some guys can get away with not eating well drinking and poor training and grow... doesnt that directly contradict everything weve struggled to align to provide optimal growth.... what if we bog ourselves down with too much food and supps and less amy be more in some cases. hmm id better post some pics and my diet before i sound more dumb.
09-12-2007 08:22 AM
I bet you are.... you rep whore.
Originally Posted by Gixxer82
09-12-2007 11:24 AM
I agree with many of the statements here although I think it's important to keep things in perspective. In the scenario CE offered, a lot of us are pretty much assuming guy A and B are equal in height and overall pysiognomy...they might not be though due to genetics.
Guy B could have very short arms and a large abdomen/thorax...ie a terrible specimen for BBing. So there, genetics are actually everything and as a predominantly BBing community we kinda get jaded by the fact that so many of us that gravitate towards this lifestyle are the genetic types who can see good results from it (ie tall-ish, with some kind of propensity to form a V-taper). A short, genetically fat kid with very narrow shoulders is not going to gravitate as much (ie a pear type phenotype).
If the latter guy eats perfectly, trains perfectly, and even cycles perfectly...he's still going to be at a huge disadvantage aesthetically compared to some tall lanky guy who trains half ass and eats just enough protein to fill out a little. A's overall skeletal structure will highlight his physique better even if it has marginal LBM compared to B's. There's no way to get around it if his (B) skeletal structure is lacking...so there, genetics are king.
If you are talking about two structurally similar guys, then B has a great chance of winning out if A is truly half azzing it.
09-12-2007 11:41 AM
09-12-2007 12:30 PM
Oh quite true, but there are limits and that's what CE's scenario is drawing on. IF you put it into the context of "who's going to look better?" (subjective, I know) or put the two people on the stage for a competition, then you are forced by default to look at the extremes.
I'm not disparaging those with less than perfect genetics, lord knows I am not particularly gifted with anything except small joint structure, but the context of the thread and indeed the context of the BBing lifestyle is based on subjective aesthetics.
Outside of that, anyone can strive to look 1000% percent better. Watch the Biggest Loser sometime. It's pretty amazing what some of these people accomplish and I have to admit..I get sucked into watching it.
09-12-2007 12:43 PM
I think probably within two or three years guy B passes guy A. I've never seen anyone who is 8% bodyfat and big who doesn't workout hard and has a crappy diet. No matter how spectacular your genetics are, big + ripped don't happen without work. Abercrombie + Fitch boy sized and ripped sure, but not 300 extra size and ripped. But even with less than optimal genetics, IMO that is something reachable over time if you maintain intensity, and use supplements / cycles to do it.
Originally Posted by CryingEmo
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