Kramer says racist remarks and then apologizes.

[B4n3 0n3]

"kramer" on letterman - Google Video

At first I was like, fvck Kramer but now after seeing the apology I believe the apology and I forgive him. I think what happened is that deep down inside we all know the words but we don't say these words because we know they are wrong but in the heat of the moment we can just say anything that comes to mind. So that is what I believe had happened here and I think Kramer is a good guy that just made an error in judgement.

Here is the tape of the incident. [nomedia]www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgHj_YxyhGc&eurl=[/nomedia]

 

[BigVrunga]

He must have been on something to flip out like that...I saw that rant, and it was really, REALLY bad. I saw his apology too and he did look genuinely broken up about what he said, still though - there was such hate in his voice it was crazy.

 

[B4n3 0n3]

The comments did look pretty bad but I think part of his act is to speak without thinking first as he did so much on Seinfeld so all this stuff just came out of him.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Everyone has a deep down dark part that can be unleashed if the right buttons are pushed. Whether or not he was speaking out of being cornered and scared(he's an actor not a stand up comedian) or if he truely feels that way only he will truely know.

I don't know him and he didn't direct em at me at the club so I really don't care one way or another. I also don't get surprised when people let out on racial or prejudices.

 

[cable626]

I think its part of his act but he took it too far.
As a comedian you have to be prepared for interruptions like that and plan accordingly, not just flip out and say stuff that will offend others.

 

[B4n3 0n3]

Right, he definatley took it too far. But I really believe his apology. I am about as far from a racist as you can get but things have come out of my mouth before that I am not proud of so I can understand a little bit of where he is comming from. He did the right thing and made an apology.

 

[papa G]

He really did F up!!! Even though I have heard minority comedians use words like honkey, cracker etc, he just made himself look racist as f*ck! It is about how you say it in comedy! He just started speaking out in frustration and anger! As a word of thumb, it is not cool for white guys to say the N word!! I know it is a double standard but it is soo true in todays society.

I honestly think it would be abetter world if people were not offended so easily! Hell, no matter what you say someone is going to be pissed! I think that his timing was way off!

 

[meowmeow]

He didn't just say the N word. He went ballistic and implied that blacks should be strung up! He was intending to demean and he did it in a hostile way. He went on to say that is what happens when you interupt a white man.

I think that this probably puts a nail in the coffin that was his failing career. Nobody will hire him now.

 

[bioman]

Yeah, he's done. A friend of mine said he saw Richards' act at the Laugh Factory a few weeks back and said it was terrible beyond belief.

I think in lieu of his failing career and probably a lot of other factors..he just snapped. He does not seem like himself anymore, he seems disturbed both with the tirade and the apology. That in no way excuses his actions as those were some pretty ugly words, but I still hope he finds the help he needs.

 

[glenihan]

there is simply no excuse for what he did at all .. i think its absolutely disgraceful .. i've always loved him for what he did on seinfeld (i'm beyond borderline obsessed with that show) but he's a complete ass in my eyes now and no amount of apologizing can cover up what he must believe deep down .... when people start firing off like that its usually true feelings that come out

 

[BigVrunga]

He even said it in the middle of his outbust..."It shocks you, It shocks you, what lies beneath the surface...."

Just imagine seeing one of your buddies do that, even if you harbor negative feelings about another race for whatever reason, you dont bring that **** up in public.

 

[RenegadeRows]

Temporary insanity...

 

[CDB]

He could do a comedy duo routine with Mel Gibson though.

Think of the possibilities.

 

[magnate]

The question I have is...........did he decide to apologize BEFORE or AFTER he found out the whole thing had been videotaped? I believe the video showed up on TMZ, and that's what threw him into total "damage control" mode.

I know this much. I'm not of minority race so I can't begin to understand what its like to have that kind of racism directed at me, but if I was at that show with my wife and he went off on me like that, I would want to kill that son-of-a#@%#

 

[Rocky82]

Whatever happened to good old amendment number 1?? I dont agree with what Mike Richards said, but it seems that in this wonderful country of ours you can only speak your mind if you're Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or...dare i say, Louis Faracan, one of the greatest and most notorious hate mongers around. I know this thread will be locked soon as it's just a time bomb waiting to explode with loaded racial implicaitons, but I just wanted to be the voice of reason here. Mike Richards may be manic, he might have been on coke, or both. Neither is an excuse. But in this country there are many double standards that I feel are way more absurd than anything he said.

Personally, I will still watch Seinfeld as I always did. What he said was how he felt at that time, and he has every right to do so. He shouldnt have said it at a comedy club in public, but that's part of the way our country and it's freedoms are set up. You take the good with the bad, or get the hell out.

There are greater tragedies in our world today. I think people need to get their heads out of their asses and put things in perspective.

 

[CDB]

Whatever happened to good old amendment number 1?? I dont agree with what Mike Richards said, but it seems that in this wonderful country of ours you can only speak your mind if you're Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or...dare i say, Louis Faracan, one of the greatest and most notorious hate mongers around. I know this thread will be locked soon as it's just a time bomb waiting to explode with loaded racial implicaitons, but I just wanted to be the voice of reason here. Mike Richards may be manic, he might have been on coke, or both. Neither is an excuse. But in this country there are many double standards that I feel are way more absurd than anything he said.

Personally, I will still watch Seinfeld as I always did. What he said was how he felt at that time, and he has every right to do so. He shouldnt have said it at a comedy club in public, but that's part of the way our country and it's freedoms are set up. You take the good with the bad, or get the hell out.

There are greater tragedies in our world today. I think people need to get their heads out of their asses and put things in perspective.

I don't recall anyone saying he didn't have the right to say what he said. He's an ******* for saying it, but then so are Farakan, Sharpton, etc. Everyone has the right to speak their mind, and everyone else has the right to judge them on what they say.

 

[Rocky82]

I don't recall anyone saying he didn't have the right to say what he said. He's an ******* for saying it, but then so are Farakan, Sharpton, etc. Everyone has the right to speak their mind, and everyone else has the right to judge them on what they say.

Touche...I agree, I just wanted to make sure everyone kept that in mind. It's easy to cross over to the side of "How dare he say that, he has no right to" from "He's an ass for saying that". Either way, it's a sad state of affairs. I watched it again and it's painfully obvious that this was not part of the routine although as it got worse and worse he tried to make it seem like it was. I guess maybe he thought that the more absurd he made it the more people would think its funny?? But this was just ugly.

 

[CDB]

Touche...I agree, I just wanted to make sure everyone kept that in mind. It's easy to cross over to the side of "How dare he say that, he has no right to" from "He's an ass for saying that". Either way, it's a sad state of affairs. I watched it again and it's painfully obvious that this was not part of the routine although as it got worse and worse he tried to make it seem like it was. I guess maybe he thought that the more absurd he made it the more people would think its funny?? But this was just ugly.

Oh it was part of a routine. A bad one by an actor trying to be a comedian, an actor with some major issues and this is how it came out. See his apology? He needs to go to a nice quiet place and eat waffles with spoon for a while.

 

[Big Matt]

He should ave given them the "Life is Like a Mop" Speech!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgTgWSrNVdk"]YouTube - UHF: Life is like a mop[/ame]

 

[papa G]

I must say that his anger, frustration and insecurities came out at the wrong time and he flipped! I do agree that in the right situation that ANYONE can lose it! Maybe he was not getting any ass at the time. I myself have been called many things by many different races, but I have never lost it!

I think at first he tried to make it funny (alot like chappell or carlos) but his anger at the world just came out!! No matter what race you are you do have a little bit of PREJUDICE in you!
Hell, many times its not about race but about your up-bringing, lifestyle, religion or economic class! You don't have to be black to be discriminated against nowadays. I have experienced this type of **** for being an ARMY veteran! This girl in class a few years ago found out I served in the army and said "I think you are stupid for ever being in the army!" and got on a anti-war kick! Looking back, I'm glad I never lost my composure b/c I almost did!

We live in a world with MUCH anxiety! I believe that those hecklers pushed him over the edge and his underlying prejudice came out. I really do think he is a little prejudice but he is more than likely no RACIST, there is a difference!

 

[sicnarf]

Whatever happened to good old amendment number 1?? I dont agree with what Mike Richards said, but it seems that in this wonderful country of ours you can only speak your mind if you're Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or...dare i say, Louis Faracan, one of the greatest and most notorious hate mongers around. I know this thread will be locked soon as it's just a time bomb waiting to explode with loaded racial implicaitons, but I just wanted to be the voice of reason here. Mike Richards may be manic, he might have been on coke, or both. Neither is an excuse. But in this country there are many double standards that I feel are way more absurd than anything he said.

Personally, I will still watch Seinfeld as I always did. What he said was how he felt at that time, and he has every right to do so. He shouldnt have said it at a comedy club in public, but that's part of the way our country and it's freedoms are set up. You take the good with the bad, or get the hell out.

There are greater tragedies in our world today. I think people need to get their heads out of their asses and put things in perspective.

Michael Richards did not have a First Amendment right to angrily utter the N word toward the black audience members. His speech constituted "fighting words," and this category of speech along with obscenity, libel, and lewd and profane speech was held to be undeserving of constitutional protection by the Supreme Court in the 1942 case of Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. The rationale in Chaplinsky as to why "fighting words" are undeserving of First Amendment protection is that this particular speech communicates vitriol, not coherent ideas, and the social harm that can be brought about by fighting words is high. The social harm at issue would be a potential breach of the peace, and Michael Richards is lucky that audience members did not storm the stage and cause him physical harm.

Since the government has a legitimate interest in preventing breaches of the peace, and fighting words are low value speech void of coherent ideas, the use of the N word can be constitutionally prohibited. Further support for this contention can be found in the 1992 Supreme Court of RAV v. City of St. Paul. In RAV, Justice Scalia held that the government can make a content based distinction within a category of unprotected speech based on intensity in prohibiting unprotected speech. Thus, the government could constitutionally proscribe racist fighting words based on their virulence, and there is no doubt that the N word is possibly the most virulent fighting word currently in existence.

In summation, Michael Richard's tirade at the Laugh Factory was not protected by the First Amendment.

 

[BigVrunga]

Since the government has a legitimate interest in preventing breaches of the peace, and fighting words are low value speech void of coherent ideas, the use of the N word can be constitutionally prohibited.

Then every black person in America would be facing criminal charges...

 

[MegaCalf]

I have more respect for Mel Gibson than Richards. Gibson attacked a religion which any race or ethicity is SUPPOSED to be allowed to convert to. Richards attacked a race, something you're born with.

 

[thesinner]

In an attempt to get back at someone who has gotten under our skin, we try to get under theirs. When the person being gotten back at is of a different race, the infamous racial slur becomes the trump.

This issue here, IMO, is not whether or not Kramer is a racist, but the power that we give to certain words. The N word is (or at least should be) nothing more than six letters that make up for two syllables, with several non-offensive synonyms. The fact of the matter is that some people take it as more than just a word.

It's one word. One word that gets people shot, gets people sued, makes people mad, makes people cry, and gets people ejected from their own comedy act. Why? Because we give it the power to do so.

 

[Rocky82]

Michael Richards did not have a First Amendment right to angrily utter the N word toward the black audience members. His speech constituted "fighting words," and this category of speech along with obscenity, libel, and lewd and profane speech was held to be undeserving of constitutional protection by the Supreme Court in the 1942 case of Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. The rationale in Chaplinsky as to why "fighting words" are undeserving of First Amendment protection is that this particular speech communicates vitriol, not coherent ideas, and the social harm that can be brought about by fighting words is high. The social harm at issue would be a potential breach of the peace, and Michael Richards is lucky that audience members did not storm the stage and cause him physical harm.

Since the government has a legitimate interest in preventing breaches of the peace, and fighting words are low value speech void of coherent ideas, the use of the N word can be constitutionally prohibited. Further support for this contention can be found in the 1992 Supreme Court of RAV v. City of St. Paul. In RAV, Justice Scalia held that the government can make a content based distinction within a category of unprotected speech based on intensity in prohibiting unprotected speech. Thus, the government could constitutionally proscribe racist fighting words based on their virulence, and there is no doubt that the N word is possibly the most virulent fighting word currently in existence.

In summation, Michael Richard's tirade at the Laugh Factory was not protected by the First Amendment.

Thank you for this well thought out, eloquent response. I was not aware of these legal precendents. I just don't understand why men like David Duke, Faracan, and other extremists are alowed to preach their hate on the steps of major courts around the country without any legal repercussions?? There's no sense in getting into a legal semantics battle, the fact is what he said was uncalled for.

 

[sicnarf]

Then every black person in America would be facing criminal charges...

Not so. When black people utter the N word to each other, this speech does not constitute fighting words. In other words, the N word could be constitutionally proscribed when a white person utters it in a face to face encounter with a black person (due to the high probability of a fight breaking out), but would be protected when black people utter the word amongst themselves (the N word would not be a verbal barb in this scenario).

There is precedent for expression/speech being unprotected in one context and protected in another. In the 2003 Supreme Court case of Virginia v. Black, the Court dealt with the issue of cross burning. The Court held that cross burning was unprotected speech when it constituted conduct designed to intimidate. Thus, burning a cross on the front lawn of a black family would not be protected speech. On the other hand, the Court held that the Virginia statute prohibiting cross burning went too far because it deemed all cross burning to be prima facie evidence of an intent to intimidate. Thus, the statute reached protected political speech because burning a cross at a KKK rally (which is detestable) would not constitute an intent to intimidate, but would instead symbolize the ideology of white supremacy.

Thus, the N word, like cross burning, can be proscribed in one context and protected in another.

 

[BigVrunga]

Thus, the N word, like cross burning, can be proscribed in one context and protected in another.

That would be a very sticky situation to enforce then. What if a black person yelled the N-word and shot a white person? What if a white person yelled it out and the black person was offended, but the white guy claimed he was just kidding?

I understand what you're saying, just think that would create quite a mess if actually put into law.

BV

 

[CDB]

Far be it from me to suggest the supreme court is wrong...

 

[aspire210]

I think everyone over reacted. Sorry, everyone hates someone else, no matter what people like to think about our politically correct society. If it was a black comedian and he yelled out "honky", "cracker", etc it would have been perfectly acceptable. This is a pathetic double standard. We can not be forced to feel guilty about what out ancestors did on this continent long before we were conceived. Sorry, black people were enslaved. Get over it. My ancestors didn't even come over until the early 1900s, so I can say with certainty that my family had nothing to do with it.

Today the playing field is tipped in women/minorities favor, but everyone keeps complaining. You can call me racist, but if everyone loves to give so much power to a word, thats your problem not mine. Also, this black people can say "nigger" or a variation and other races can not, why is this? Would if fly if white people suddenly went into an uproar when anyone else said "cracker" of course not, because it is utterly ridiculous. I think everyone is just afriad to just admit the stupidity of this convention for the use of a word. Wouldn't want to be deemed a "horrible" racist.

Also, one can say "Well i was born this race, I can't help it", well what if he made fun of someone for being ugly? Well, people are born ugly too, not much they can do about it. This would have been okay though, he might have been called "mean" at the absolute worst. This sickens me, the hypocrisy that we endure just because we are afraid to offend anyone.

The part of the video that I could see (it keeps freezing half way through), he mostly stated facts. Something along the line of they'd be dragged out if this was 50 years ago. I'm pretty sure that is a reality, 50 years ago, I doubt black people would have even been allowed to be seated in there, let alone anyone hesitating to drag them out. Everyone can sit here on their high horses and say how it was wrong to be racist, but wait until the day that a minority gets a promotion over you, despite you being more qualified and having senority. I will bet that you go home and say racist remarks to your friends or family, or at the very least, you would think them. Everyone is all warm and fuzzy with other races until it affects theire life or their money. Our society is grossly tipped in the favor of non-white males right now and I don't feel I should apologize for using any word, or words, that I think describe the situation. I'm waiting for the day "black" is determined unconscionable, because it hurts people feelings that everyone is thought of as perfecetly equal and the same.

EDIT: It finally played all the way through. Why does no one say anything about "****ing cracker-ass mother ****er"? and "****ing white boy?" I forgot, thats perfectly fine as long as its not directed at a minority. Also the amazing mastery of the english language "Never had no shows" and "never had no movies." He should have forgone the racist remarks and just called them out on the grounds of being totally ignorant. I think this is an example of the bad part of both races, black and white. However, no one seems to care about that.

 

[BigVrunga]

No one also really knows what happened to throw Kramer into such a fit, either. The video starts after his flipout.

 

[meowmeow]

...he mostly stated facts. Something along the line of they'd be dragged out if this was 50 years ago. I'm pretty sure that is a reality, 50 years ago, I doubt black people would have even been allowed to be seated in there, let alone anyone hesitating to drag them out...

He wasn't giving a history lesson. He didn't describe lynching matter of factly. He was not pointing out the facts.

He was angry and he implied through his actions and words that blacks were previously treated as inferior and that they should still be treated that way today.

He did not simply use the N word. It was much more than that. Listen to the way he says these things...you're a N (word dragged out) and repeated in such a way as to imply inferiority. This coupled with his own description of himself as the "superior" white man.

...Our society is grossly tipped in the favor of non-white males right now and I don't feel I should apologize for using any word, or words, that I think describe the situation....

This isn't about you or your feelings of discontent. It is simply a very ugly incident carried out in public and talked about for what it is...ugly.

 

[cable626]

I agree with meow. It all depends on how you say it and in what context.

Take, for example, this teacher:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY16_nKORb8"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]

 

[aspire210]

He wasn't giving a history lesson. He didn't describe lynching matter of factly. He was not pointing out the facts.

He was angry and he implied through his actions and words that blacks were previously treated as inferior and that they should still be treated that way today.

He did not simply use the N word. It was much more than that. Listen to the way he says these things...you're a N (word dragged out) and repeated in such a way as to imply inferiority. This coupled with his own description of himself as the "superior" white man.

This isn't about you or your feelings of discontent. It is simply a very ugly incident carried out in public and talked about for what it is...ugly.

So we should treat white males as though they were inferior? Should minorities get special treatment just because they are minorities?

Why is it perfectly acceptable for a black comedian to make fun of white people, but if a white comedian did the same he would be a "racist"? I'm not talking about this particular incedent, I am speaking in broader terms.

"Not about my feelings of discontent" huh? Well, my "feelings of discontent" address the issue at heart. We can look at this as an isolated incident, but why not disucuss the reason it happened and the reaction as well? Should be just turn a blind eye to the hypocrisy and the total double standard placed upon white males due merely to the fact that they are born as such. To attack him for having the same feelings at the members of the audience that called him a "cracker" and "white boy" is totally ignorant. Far more ignorant than hating people based soley on the fact that they are not of the same race or gender as you. In a society where we allow double stanards, the end will be hate. It starts as anger due to the fact of unfair treatment, then moves and grows as time goes on. If we keep the idea of these double stanards in place, racism will never go away. It will feed on the division that we ourselves setup and it will grow until there is another civil war. Not based on social-economic and geographic differences, but based soley on the fact that everyone is not the same color.

The simple fact that hes being treated differently because he is white IS RACISM. Just because he is not a minority does not make him unseceptible to this. I don't recall Richard Pryor or Chris Rock having to issue a public apology for making racist comments. Why, just because they said it with a smile on their face? Don't forget that often the truth is told in jest.

I'm not defending what he did, all I am saying is that if the tables were turned, there would not be such an uproar, nor would there have been a public apology. Thats the real problem, IMHO, not this incident.

 

[Nullifidian]

I have more respect for Mel Gibson than Richards. Gibson attacked a religion which any race or ethicity is SUPPOSED to be allowed to convert to. Richards attacked a race, something you're born with.

Actually thats not true.

In order to become an orthodox Jew you have to have Jewish heritage otherwise you won't be accepted. Judaism is a religion, but being Jewish is an ethnicity. This is a source of major confusion for many people.

Mel Gibson has a problem with those who are ethnically Jewish not the religion.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Hmmm, So many points being brought up it's hard to adress them all. Both sides have good cases/arguments but they aren't really as solid when the opposing side gets thrown in. There's a lot of history with the word Nigger and context and intent play a huge role in its meaning.

Cracker doesn't hold as high of a status, so to speak due to the lack of history surrounding it.

As far as Using Dave Chapelle or Carlos Mencia etc. They surround their humor in ways that even a ordinary black or hispanic man would not do in regular society. Comics much like poets have a much more open and accepted vocabulary. This guy let his personal feelings act like cornered dog.

When we are pushed we usually act in a couple ways. One being to attack those in ways we know would hurt them regardless of how we felt. If you knew a women was very concerned with her weight even though she wasn't fat that would probably be slung out there by a person that knew this and was angry. Another way is just taking any hidden repressed feelings and letting them loose. Then there's a nice combination which is what this guy seemed to have a field day with.

At the end of the day all you need to do is make sure you don't let yourself fall into that same scenerio.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

It looked to me like he was really pissed off and used exactly what he thought would equally piss off the people in the audience who were disrespecting him. To stand-up comedians, it's very disrespectful to be talking in the audience - and who knows? Maybe this particular group of people - or person - was laughing and yapping loudly enough to make the disrespect that much worse.

If somebody makes me angry enough that I want to rile them up enough to possibly take a swing at me - I'll call them whatever it is that pisses them off the most. If the (whoa is me) "N" word is going to do the job, then I'm going to use it. However, it doesn't make me a racist. I don't hate a whole race because I call somebody a word that pisses them off more than anything else.

I seriously doubt this guy is a racist. It would really, really surprise me if he didn't have black friends and had at least a few black people that he looked up to and respected. In that event, he could not possibly be a racist.

 

[Jayhawkk]

People confuse racism and predjudices a good bit of the time as well as stereotypes. Racism isn't an easy topic to begin with.

 

[GREENFEATHER]

 

[Jayhawkk]

wow they didn't hesitate.

 

[psycho]

everyone over reacted.. He said the wrong thing and then they came back with their own racial remarks... 2 wrongs dont make a right here.. Both Michael Richards and the guys he outed were in the wrong.. Its over and done with.

 

[MegaCalf]

Kramer in black face. This is real: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVt6eoKB9sw"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]

 

[BigVrunga]

What movie is that from?

 

[MegaCalf]

What movie is that from?

I don't know, it may be from a sketch comedy SNL knockoff called 'Fridays' that was on tv about 20 years ago.

 

[ITHURTZ]

I thought it was funny. Words are words and in my opinion if you have a problem with a word you got serious problems. Iv said every name in the book, been called alot of names myself. Cracker, white trash doesnt bother me there WORDS. Since when does a word conflict injury? Oh he said the n word I am scared for life, I need theropy (sp?). Pansies gotta grow up and stop being scared of WORDS

 

[BigVrunga]

I don't know, it may be from a sketch comedy SNL knockoff called 'Fridays' that was on tv about 20 years ago.

A lot of people put blackface on back then - Id hardly say he was being a racist in that video. Probably a young actor happy to be getting paid work...

 

[MegaCalf]

I agree, but the more this plays out the more people will get tired of it and develop and immunity to being 'shocked' by words.

I am confused why Richards had to meet with Jesse Jackson. The people in the audience who used the words 'white boy' and 'cracker' didn't feel obligated to meet with David Duke.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Michael's career is over. that's fine, he deserves it.

This nonsense about sending him to be 're-educated' at a tolerance diversity camp is completely ridiculous.

all rappers that promote killing 'white' cops should be sent to tolerance work camp as well if we are going to fully committed to this Maoist vision of society.

tolerance summer camp for everyone who might be a racist!

the government's effort to eliminate stereotypes is completely absurd

 

[ITHURTZ]

just another way for them to control us

 

[baxter32]

The guy is a really funny guy, but even with the apology his career is for all intents and purposes over. No one will ever let it go.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

^ haha, come on, tell us what you really think