looks like someone finally understands what it means to be a american with no other
04-16-2003 02:32 PM
looks like someone finally understands what it means to be a american with no other
affiliations..looks like andy rooney nailed it this time..i just recieved this in a mass email best damn sound off i have read in a long time..call me whatever u want after u read this no matter what is said im nothing more than just a american
> > More of Andy Rooney's Philosophy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think that if you feel homosexuality is
> wrong, it is not a phobia,
> > > > it is an opinion. I don't think being a
> minority makes you a victim of
> > > > anything except numbers. The only things I can
> think of that are truly
> > > > discriminatory are things like the United
> Negro College Fund, Jet
> > > >Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and
> Miss Black America.
> > > >
> > > > Try to have things like the United Caucasian
> College Fund, Cloud
> > > > Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or
> Miss White America and see what >>>>happens,
> Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door.
> > > >
> > > > When 70% of the people who get arrested are
> black, in cities where
> > > > 70% of the population is black, that is not
> racial profiling, it is the law
> > > > of statistics.
> > > >
> > > > I believe that if you are selling me a milk
> shake, a pack of
> > > > cigarettes, a newspaper, or a hotel room, you
> must do it in English.
> > > > As a matter of fact, if you want to be an
> American citizen you should speak
> > > > English. My father and grandfather shouldn't
> have to die in vain so
> > > > you can leave the countries you were born in
> to come over and
> > > > disrespect ours.
> > > >
> > > > I think the police should have every right to
> shoot your sorry ass
> > > > if you threaten them after they tell you to
> stop. If you can't understand
> > > > the word "freeze" or "stop" in English, see
> the above lines.
> > > >
> > > > I feel much safer letting a machine with no
> political affiliation
> > > > recount votes when needed.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think just because you were not born
> in this country, you
> > > > are qualified for any special loan programs,
> government sponsored bank
> > > > loans or tax breaks etc., so you can open a
> hotel, coffee shop, trinket
> > > > store, or any other business.
> > > >
> > > > I believe a self-righteous liberal or
> conservative with a cause is
> > > > more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an
> > > >
> > > > I think Bill Gates has every right to keep
> every penny he made and
> > > > continue to make more. If it ticks you off, go
> and invent the next
> > > > operating system that's better and put your
> name on the building.
> > > > Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to
> help you.
> > > >
> > > > It doesn't take a whole village to raise a
> child right, but it does
> > > > take a parent to stand up to the kid and smack
> his little ass when
> > > > necessary and say "NO".
> > > >
> > > > I am sick of "Political Correctness" and of
> all the suck ups that go
> > > > along with it. I know a lot of black people,
> and not a single one of
> > > > them was born in Africa, so how can they be
> > > > Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go
> around saying I am a
> > > > European-American because my
> > > > great, great, great, great, great, great
> grandfather was from Europe.
> > > > I am proud to be from America and nowhere
> > > >
> > > > And if you don't like my point of view,
04-16-2003 02:38 PM
04-16-2003 02:42 PM
i like to have fell outta my chair on this one...FINALLY someone uses some common sense......
04-16-2003 05:04 PM
woo! well said on many points.
04-16-2003 05:13 PM
Sheer and utter brilliance. *wipes away tear*
04-16-2003 05:38 PM
right on! I couldn't say it ANY better!
04-16-2003 05:38 PM
The truth is always easy on the eyes. My god that was great. The only reason we still have any type of segregation is because of people like Jesse Jackson. Jesse whats your job again? Why do u drive a mercedes?
04-16-2003 09:51 PM
jesse wouldnt even have a job if he wasnt using people the way he does
04-17-2003 12:24 AM
Finally someone makes sense IMO. People like Jesse Jackson are what's wrong in this country. This bastard has probably never had a job in his life but he's rich 'cause he threatens basically blackmails ( oops I guess the word blackmail is not PC ) rich companies into giving him money. I don't even think he's a good Black leader because he is only looking out for himself.
04-17-2003 02:01 AM
I've been saying that part about African Americans for years. ( not just about african americans, but you get the point) if you were born in America despite your color, culture, or creed, YOU ARE AN AMERICAN simple as that.
04-18-2003 03:16 AM
Whites Swim in Racial Preference by Tim Wise (a white man)
ďAsk a fish what water is and you'll get no answer. Even if fish were capable of speech, they would likely have no explanation for the element they swim in every minute of every day of their lives. Water simply is. Fish take it for granted.
So too with this thing we hear so much about, "racial preference." While many whites seem to think the notion originated with affirmative action programs, intended to expand opportunities for historically marginalized people of color, racial preference has actually had a long and very white history.
Affirmative action for whites was embodied in the abolition of European indentured servitude, which left black (and occasionally indigenous) slaves as the only unfree labor in the colonies that would become the U.S.
Affirmative action for whites was the essence of the 1790 Naturalization Act, which allowed virtually any European immigrant to become a full citizen, even while blacks, Asians and American Indians could not.
Affirmative action for whites was the guiding principle of segregation, Asian exclusion laws, and the theft of half of Mexico for the fulfillment of Manifest Destiny.
In recent history, affirmative action for whites motivated racially restrictive housing policies that helped 15 million white families procure homes with FHA loans from the 1930s to the '60s, while people of color were mostly excluded from the same programs.
In other words, it is hardly an exaggeration to say that white America is the biggest collective recipient of racial preference in the history of the cosmos. It has skewed our laws, shaped our public policy and helped create the glaring inequalities with which we still live.
White families, on average, have a net worth that is 11 times the net worth of black families, according to a recent study; and this gap remains substantial even when only comparing families of like size, composition, education and income status.
A full-time black male worker in 2003 makes less in real dollar terms than similar white men were earning in 1967. Such realities are not merely indicative of the disadvantages faced by blacks, but indeed are evidence of the preferences afforded whites Ė a demarcation of privilege that is the necessary flipside of discrimination.
Indeed, the value of preferences to whites over the years is so enormous that the current baby-boomer generation of whites is currently in the process of inheriting between $7-10 trillion in assets from their parents and grandparents Ė property handed down by those who were able to accumulate assets at a time when people of color by and large could not. To place this in the proper perspective, we should note that this amount of money is more than all the outstanding mortgage debt, all the credit card debt, all the savings account assets, all the money in IRAs and 401k retirement plans, all the annual profits for U.S. manufacturers, and our entire merchandise trade deficit combined.
Yet few whites have ever thought of our position as resulting from racial preferences. Indeed, we pride ourselves on our hard work and ambition, as if somehow we invented the concepts.
As if we have worked harder than the folks who were forced to pick cotton and build levies for free; harder than the Latino immigrants who spend 10 hours a day in fields picking strawberries or tomatoes; harder than the (mostly) women of color who clean hotel rooms or change bedpans in hospitals, or the (mostly) men of color who collect our garbage.
We strike the pose of self-sufficiency while ignoring the advantages we have been afforded in every realm of activity: housing, education, employment, criminal justice, politics, banking and business. We ignore the fact that at almost every turn, our hard work has been met with access to an opportunity structure denied to millions of others. Privilege, to us, is like water to the fish: invisible precisely because we cannot imagine life without it.
It is that context that best explains the duplicity of the President's recent criticisms of affirmative action at the University of Michigan. President Bush, himself a lifelong recipient of affirmative action Ė the kind set aside for the mediocre rich Ė recently proclaimed that the school's policies were examples of unfair racial preference. Yet in doing so he not only showed a profound ignorance of the Michigan policy, but made clear the inability of yet another white person to grasp the magnitude of white privilege still in operation.
The President attacked Michigan's policy of awarding 20 points (on a 150-point evaluation scale) to undergraduate applicants who are members of underrepresented minorities (which at U of M means blacks, Latinos and American Indians). To many whites such a "preference" is blatantly discriminatory.
Bush failed to mention that greater numbers of points are awarded for other things that amount to preferences for whites to the exclusion of people of color.
For example, Michigan awards 20 points to any student from a low-income background, regardless of race. Since these points cannot be combined with those for minority status (in other words poor blacks don't get 40 points), in effect this is a preference for poor whites.
Then Michigan awards 16 points to students who hail from the Upper Peninsula of the state: a rural, largely isolated, and almost completely white area.
Of course both preferences are fair, based as they are on the recognition that economic status and even geography (as with race) can have a profound effect on the quality of K-12 schooling that one receives, and that no one should be punished for things that are beyond their control. But note that such preferences Ė though disproportionately awarded to whites Ė remain uncriticized, while preferences for people of color become the target for reactionary anger. Once again, white preference remains hidden because it is more subtle, more ingrained, and isn't called white preference, even if that's the effect.
But that's not all. Ten points are awarded to students who attended top-notch high schools, and another eight points are given to students who took an especially demanding AP and honors curriculum.
As with points for those from the Upper Peninsula, these preferences may be race-neutral in theory, but in practice they are anything but. Because of intense racial isolation (and Michigan's schools are the most segregated in America for blacks, according to research by the Harvard Civil Rights Project), students of color will rarely attend the "best" schools, and on average, schools serving mostly black and Latino students offer only a third as many AP and honors courses as schools serving mostly whites.
So even truly talented students of color will be unable to access those extra points simply because of where they live, their economic status and ultimately their race, which is intertwined with both.
Four more points are awarded to students who have a parent who attended the U of M: a kind of affirmative action with which the President is intimately familiar, and which almost exclusively goes to whites. Ironically, while alumni preference could work toward the interest of diversity if combined with aggressive race-based affirmative action (by creating a larger number of black and brown alums), the rollback of the latter, combined with the almost guaranteed retention of the former, will only further perpetuate white preference.
So the U of M offers 20 "extra" points to the typical black, Latino or indigenous applicant, while offering various combinations worth up to 58 extra points for students who will almost all be white. But while the first of these are seen as examples of racial preferences, the second are not, hidden as they are behind the structure of social inequities that limit where people live, where they go to school, and the kinds of opportunities they have been afforded. White preferences, the result of the normal workings of a racist society, can remain out of sight and out of mind, while the power of the state is turned against the paltry preferences meant to offset them.
Very telling is the oft-heard comment by whites, "If I had only been black I would have gotten into my first-choice college."
Such a statement not only ignores the fact that whites are more likely than members of any other group Ė even with affirmative action in place Ė to get into their first-choice school, but it also presumes, as anti-racist activist Paul Marcus explains, "that if these whites were black, everything else about their life would have remained the same." In other words, that it would have made no negative difference as to where they went to school, what their family income was, or anything else.
The ability to believe that being black would have made no difference (other than a beneficial one when it came time for college), and that being white has made no positive difference, is rooted in privilege itself: the privilege that allows one to not have to think about race on a daily basis; to not have one's intelligence questioned by best-selling books; to not have to worry about being viewed as a "out of place" when driving, shopping, buying a home, or for that matter, attending the University of Michigan.
So long as those privileges remain firmly in place and the preferential treatment that flows from those privileges continues to work to the benefit of whites, all talk of ending affirmative action is not only premature but a slap in the face to those who have fought, and died, for equal opportunity.Ē
04-18-2003 10:56 AM
Wow...I could have sworn grew up in a single-mother household making $675 a month. All that time I could have been paying polo and eating caviar. Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
[B]Whites Swim in Racial Preference by Tim Wise (a white man)
Indeed, the value of preferences to whites over the years is so enormous that the current baby-boomer generation of whites is currently in the process of inheriting between $7-10 trillion in assets from their parents and grandparents Ė property handed down by those who were able to accumulate assets at a time when people of color by and large could not.
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04-18-2003 11:37 AM
i'm with you dsade...i grew up in a very similar situation. and to think i had all these advantages growing up i missed.... Originally posted by dsade
Wow...I could have sworn&nbsp; grew up in a single-mother household making $675 a month. All&nbsp;that time&nbsp;I could have been paying polo and eating caviar.
04-18-2003 12:50 PM
IMO there are two perspectives. The outside looking in and the inside looking out. As a Black American I have been Profiled, Discriminated against and been subject to racism. Stopped for driving my mothers car cause itís a convertible BMW. Told that the only position available was a truck driving position at an office where the ad said hiring clerical position, Experience required, BTW I had over a years experience. Called all kinds of things when I attended School in Louisiana in Baton Rouge. I also have seen the other perspective also. Remember the sniper. Remember before he was caught. Who were we looking for? Describe your typical sniper suspect. I know many blacks that are just as racist whites. I donít publicly display what I may or may not personally think of other races but I know many who do. "White boys are crazy", "Asians and Indians are rude and they smell".
I go to a HBCU (Historically Black College University) and I Remember after 9/11 we had a discussion in class. I was laughing hard as hell at all the people in my class. "I think those people should go back where they came from." " I donít like their stores." "They should learn English and stop speaking that googly moogley." "We should just round'em all up." I said to the class why donít we dress in white sheets and go get'em. Some got it some didnít. I now see that no matter what is done we can't end racism. Just cant be done.
We always look at others and compare them to ourselves. Even our own subculture (bodybuilding and weight lifters) look at those who donít share our same level of enthusiasm. We criticize how they train and how the look and the fact that we think they take no pride in there selves physically. My point is that itís easy for you consider your self as someone who is not a racist but you are some kind of "ist" on some level. There are those who choose to get along with everyone and those who chose to get along with their group.
I will be completely honest here. When I read the first post I said to myself "there goes some old racist white man opening his mouth and spilling a bunch of his garbage." Then he uses the now popular "I have black friends and they ___." Put in contrast I feel the same way when allot of our (black) leaders speak. "Here comes come Christian/Muslim leader with his blah blah blah. And he has a nice house car and his kids donít go to public school."
We can choose to live together in this world or live against each other. I respect all the guys on the board as well as their opinions. I also know that there is no way I can understand their experiences. I have my inside looking out view. I would know about trying to get into UM and getting turned down cause I was white. I couldnít understand how it would be to be let go from your job because they need to hire more minorities. At the same time I wouldnít expect some one to understand my circumstances. They may relate but you canít understand tem till you walked a mile in my skin.
There is a real root to all evil and it is not money. Itís not the Devil. Its something far more sinister and well disguised. Can you guess what it is? Iím sure someone will understand it if they think hard enough. Here is a hint. It is one other the original forms of separation that exist even within races. Can you guess??   ;
04-18-2003 01:01 PM
Fat headed Pride?
Self pride, and thinking that your better than than the next guy is the real root of all prejudice.
04-18-2003 01:17 PM
Destro19, I read you post and understand what your saying. My beef is with Jesse Jackson. He is a money grubbing mooch. The man talks about rights and equality but wheres the equality when he speaks to millions of men and woman that work ten times as hard as him and live in two bedroom homes while he sits in his mansion. No one can honestly say his motive is soley equality. I understand he must have a house and food, clothes etc. But why not live modest and give the rest of that money to an organization or a fund. He's like the evangelist's on TV, praise the lord jesus and donate ten dollars to be saved, blah blah blah.
04-18-2003 01:20 PM
you've made some really good points and its pretty balanced, imo. the issue i have is showing someone preferential treatment because of whatever.....i recently was denied a job because of that...one that i had prepared for over a long period of time. but thats just the way it was...so i move on. i dont blame the person...and for some its difficult to seperate the two, but if we are to live together we gotta learn to. i think mlk said it well in his speech when he said he wanted his children to be judged by the content of their character not the color of their skin. that is how it should be..he was exactly right. I know in my case its the system that creates the favoritism that i have a problem with. Originally posted by destro19 IMO there are two perspectives.&nbsp; The outside looking in and the inside looking out.&nbsp; As a Black American I have been Profiled, Discriminated against and been subject to racism.&nbsp; Stopped for driving my mothers car cause itís a convertible BMW.&nbsp; Told that the only position available was a truck driving position at an office where the ad said hiring clerical position, Experience required, BTW I had over a years experience.&nbsp; Called all kinds of things when I attended School in Louisiana in Baton Rouge.&nbsp; I also have seen the other perspective also.&nbsp; Remember the sniper.&nbsp; Remember before he was caught. Who were we looking for? Describe your typical sniper suspect.&nbsp; I know many blacks that are just as racist whites.&nbsp; I donít publicly display what I may or may not personally think of other races but I know many who do.&nbsp; "White boys are crazy", "Asians and Indians are rude and they smell".&nbsp;
I go to a HBCU (Historically Black College University) and I Remember after 9/11 we had a discussion in class. I was laughing hard as hell at all the people in my class.&nbsp; "I think those people should go back where they came from."&nbsp; " I donít like their stores."&nbsp; "They should learn English and stop speaking that googly moogley."&nbsp; "We should just round'em all up."&nbsp; I said to the class why donít we dress in white sheets and go get'em.&nbsp; Some got it some didnít.&nbsp; I now see that no matter what is done we can't end racism.&nbsp; Just cant be done.
We always look at others and compare them to ourselves.&nbsp; Even our own subculture (bodybuilding and weight lifters) look at those who donít share our same level of enthusiasm.&nbsp; We criticize how they train and how the look and the fact that we think they take no pride in there selves physically.&nbsp; My point is that itís easy for you consider your self as someone who is not a racist but you are some kind of "ist" on some level.&nbsp; There are those who choose to get along with everyone and those who chose to get along with their group.&nbsp;
I will be completely honest here.&nbsp; When I read the first post I said to myself "there goes some old racist white man opening his mouth and spilling a bunch of his garbage." Then he uses the now popular "I have black friends and they ___."&nbsp; Put in contrast I feel the same way when allot of our (black) leaders speak.&nbsp; "Here comes come Christian/Muslim leader with his blah blah blah. And he has a nice house car and his kids donít go to public school."
We can choose to live together in this world or live against each other.&nbsp; I respect all the guys on the board as well as their opinions.&nbsp;&nbsp; I also know that there is no way I can understand their experiences.&nbsp; I have my inside looking out view.&nbsp; I would know about trying to get into UM and getting turned down cause I was white.&nbsp; I couldnít understand how it would be to be let go from your job because they need to hire more minorities.&nbsp; At the same time I wouldnít expect some one to understand my circumstances.&nbsp; They may relate but you canít understand tem till you walked a mile in my skin.
There is a real root to all evil and it is not money.&nbsp; Itís not the Devil.&nbsp; Its something far more sinister and well disguised. Can you guess what it is?&nbsp; Iím sure someone will understand it if they think hard enough.&nbsp; Here is a hint.&nbsp; It is one other the original forms of separation that exist even within races. Can you guess??&nbsp;&nbsp;&am p;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&am p;nbsp;&nbsp;
as for an individual, their color or gender makes no difference....but if the wanna cop some kinda attitude they can take it somewhere else...i have no time or desire to deal with such. they are jus tryin to cover up something the feel inferior about anyways.
i can understand your classmates making those comments (not saying they were right) and i understand your analogy. in my mind tho there is a big difference in a group who has just tried to destroy our conutry vs a group of people who were brought here against their will and then some saw fit to make their lives a living hell. i dont think those responsible for 9/11 should be lynched or hung or anythingt like that...that's why there are courts of law. it is hard to look at someone who is apparently of middle eastern descent these days and not have some bad thought in the back of your mind. most of 'em i think jus wanna have a decent life like the rest of us.
anyways, thanks for having a good, balanced view...and this is just my .02
04-18-2003 01:23 PM
Not to mention he has NO integrity whatsoever. Other politcal leaders who are worthless? Let's not forget Al Sharpton and Bill Clinton and Louie Farakhan and Rev. Fred Phelps. They all should be "rounded up" and shipped off to a desert island, never to return. Originally posted by jminis Destro19, I read you post and understand what your saying. My beef is with Jesse Jackson. He is a money grubbing mooch
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04-18-2003 01:27 PM
Amen ww7. They steal from the poor to give to the rich.
04-18-2003 01:33 PM
Sharpton for Pres.............
LMAO! Just kidding guys.
What a joke.
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