got my first handgun today

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    agreed, excellent post CDB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moyer
    The gun problem certainly isn't anything any one or two of us is going to solve. If it were that easy, there wouldn't be a problem.

    I'll be the first to admit, there are some idiots in this country that I really wish didn't have the right to own guns. But I don't think that my rights should be taken away because of their mistakes. Besides, even if we ban guns, there will still be some idiots that have them.
    Of course there are some people that "shouldn't" have the right...like, IMHO some people "shouldn't" have the right to procreate!

    But, the problem is....those people who "shouldn't" have the right are usually criminals....and uh...criminals don't obey the law....so, uh....when we say "guns are illegal" they dont care.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GREENFEATHER
    I don't have an issue with the background checks, I do have an issue with the waiting periods. With all of todays technology you can't convince me that they can't do instant checks for everything?
    Actually they CAN do instant checks - but thats not the point.

    The reason (in most states) that they make you wait a couple of days is so you can "cool down". For example, if you come home and find some dude balls deep in your wife, you can't go to the local sports store, pick up a hand cannon, and go back to blast them. They make you wait a couple of days to really think it through

    BP
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigP0ppa3
    Actually they CAN do instant checks - but thats not the point.

    The reason (in most states) that they make you wait a couple of days is so you can "cool down". For example, if you come home and find some dude balls deep in your wife, you can't go to the local sports store, pick up a hand cannon, and go back to blast them. They make you wait a couple of days to really think it through

    BP
    The funny thing in N.Y. is that you can walk in to a gun shop and buy a shotgun or rifle via an instant background check that day, but it takes 6 months (thats right kids 6 months) to get a hand gun permit. Whats the logic in that? You probably have a better chance of killing someone with a shot gun then a hand gun anyway. So much for cooling off.
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    I live in D.C. and handguns havee been banned here sinced the lates seventies.

    If one purports the proposition that in area without handguns there will consquently be less violent crimes, then D.C. proves that proposition false.

    D.C. has always had a high murder rate. It has gone down recently, but it has nothing to with handguns and everything to do with yuppies moving back into city.
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    Yeah, DC completely destroys the proposition that outlawing firearms will result in any kind of a decrease in crime whatsoever. On a similar note, the expiration of the assault weapon ban failed to cajole the streets into running with blood. There is no shortage of empirical evidence defeating the proposition that anti-gun legislation will positively affect the safety of society, and a true dearth of support for the opposition. The argument is that making guns legal will result in rampant crime, but the evidence provided is that an 8 year played with Daddy's blaster and traded his sentience for the priviledge.

    I just don't get it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maccabee
    The funny thing in N.Y. is that you can walk in to a gun shop and buy a shotgun or rifle via an instant background check that day, but it takes 6 months (thats right kids 6 months) to get a hand gun permit. Whats the logic in that? You probably have a better chance of killing someone with a shot gun then a hand gun anyway. So much for cooling off.
    The logic is that a handgun is considered a concealed weapon, whereas you'd have a hard time "concealing" a rifle or shotgun.

    BP
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    i agree with cdb 100% i would rather go to jail for life as long as i protect my loved ones, even if i kill them with a gun or my bare hands. Life would be safer without guns, but most people in USA have em, so i have to level the playing field by carrying one too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigP0ppa3
    Actually they CAN do instant checks - but thats not the point.

    The reason (in most states) that they make you wait a couple of days is so you can "cool down". For example, if you come home and find some dude balls deep in your wife, you can't go to the local sports store, pick up a hand cannon, and go back to blast them. They make you wait a couple of days to really think it through

    BP
    And a women who is dealing with a stalker who she thinks poses an iminent threat, how would the waiting period affect her? A person whose family is, he believes, under imminent threat, what will a waiting period do for them? It will deprive them of access to a weapon when the could possibly need it the most.

    How you deal with people who find an unpleasant situation, go to a gun store, buy a weapon and then go home and shoot someone is you put them in jail for a long time, and make it clear any amount of time beyond the ten to twenty minutes it took to get a gun negates the act of passion defense and leaves you locked up for life. I don't care what someone walks into. The act of going out, buying a gun and then going back to the situation and killing someone is premedidation in my book.
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    Plus, what are you gonna do when the zombies come? Always be prepared, I say.
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    Here is some interesting information I found, its comparing doctors and guns:

    Doctors:

    A) The number of doctors in the U.S. is 700,000
    B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000
    C) Accidental deaths per physician is 17.14%

    Statistics courtesy of the U.S. Dept of Health and Human Services

    Guns:

    A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000
    B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500
    C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.001875%

    Statistics courtesy of the FBI

    So statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Something to think about when people think we should ban guns lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Dawg
    Here is some interesting information I found, its comparing doctors and guns:

    Doctors:

    A) The number of doctors in the U.S. is 700,000
    B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000
    C) Accidental deaths per physician is 17.14%

    Statistics courtesy of the U.S. Dept of Health and Human Services

    Guns:

    A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000
    B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500
    C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.001875%

    Statistics courtesy of the FBI

    So statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Something to think about when people think we should ban guns lol.
    I always like throwing fun numbers like that at people. Don't sound familiar to me though, how recent are these? I remember a while ago the FBI Uniform Crime Stats being used to basically destroy the myth of 'kids being killed by guns,' where liberals wanted people to believe around 20 kids a day were dying from accidental shootings, and it actually turned out the vast majority of their statistics were made up of 19-22 year old 'kids' involved in gang drug wars, which didn't quite fit the picture of a little boy or girl finding daddy's .45 and accidentally blowing their head off. I believe most people except the die hard antigun nuts stopped using that stat rather quickly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Dawg
    Here is some interesting information I found, its comparing doctors and guns:

    Doctors:

    A) The number of doctors in the U.S. is 700,000
    B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000
    C) Accidental deaths per physician is 17.14%

    Statistics courtesy of the U.S. Dept of Health and Human Services

    Guns:

    A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000
    B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500
    C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.001875%

    Statistics courtesy of the FBI

    So statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Something to think about when people think we should ban guns lol.
    I'm pretty sure that anti-gun fanatics aren't concerned with just the accidental gun deaths but the total gun deaths. **** most of us guns owners got guns because we were concerned with the non-accidental number of gun deaths and becoming one of those numbers.
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    here's another fun statistic: complications from immunizations kill upwards of 3000 children per year (that shuts up the 'think of the children' crowd pretty fast).
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    Those stats are worthless. Majority of time,said guns are not being handled, so of course they are not going to be cause of death. I wonder how many gun related deaths there would be if everyone who owned a gun carried it w/them every where they went w/their finger on the trigger.
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    Yes if everyone carried them there would probably be more accidents. The stats are just there to show that guns dont cause near as many deaths as other everyday things that people go through.
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    My favorite stats are the ones from states where its legal to carry firearms--they ALWAYS have much lower crime rates than their so-called "progressive" counterparts.

    Its simple, too. If Gangsta "G" is gonna rob Mr. A in somewhere like Cali, he knows that its 'almost certain' that he is the only one with a weapon or that the other guy doesn't have a weapon. Take that scanario to Texas or Arizona and Gangsta "G" is gonna get his head blown off by good 'ol Mr. A, and maybe his gun-totin' grandma, too
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    ah a man ur size needs a man sized guna get a 357 magnum or a .44 dirty hairy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    cali is a horse of a different color with guns. like a 10 day background check, credit check, hemorroid check, etc.
    LMAO
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    One thing I think a lot of people tend to forget when discussing firearms, is the very basis this country was founded upon. The Second Amendment is the right to bear arms. In my opinion, the right for citizens to posess firearms is crucial for a number of reasons

    -Personal safety from other individuals of society (obviously)

    -Personal defense and protection from our own government - and I think this is what the founding fathers had in mind when they put this in the constitution. That, if at any point, the government becomes to restraining on its citizens, the citizens can voice their concerns, and if those concerns aren't answered and living conditions become unsuitable, they can defend themselves against an opressive government

    -Personal defense in a situation where we are attacked by another country - God forbid this would happen, especially with the strength of our military, but if it ever came down to this, you goddamn bet your ass I'm going to be sitting inside my house with the gas mask on, 12 guage on my lap, and the beretta on my hip. I'd rather get blown to pieces while firing rounds to defend myself and my family than submit, unarmed, to someone else and live the life of a piss ant.
  22. Ron Paul... phuck yeah!
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    I've owned a lot of glocks, .45 is the shiz caliber. Only caveat is the unsupported chamber on glocks... do NOT use reloads of any sort.

    My collection:
    H&K SOCOM Mk 23 with the OEM Insight pulsed laser
    H&K Tactical
    H&K SP89
    H&K P7M13

    Have an MP5 with Knight suppressor, uhh... no I don't[sorry ATF]
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    I'm looking into my first home defense weapon, and all I know is that it will be a shotgun at this point, either a Mossberg or a Stoeger, 12 or 20 gauge depending on what the girlfriend can handle. The statistics I've read say that a 20 guage will deliver about 75% of the lead of the 12 gague but with about 50% the recoil. A 20 guage also has about the same muzzle energy as two .44 mag rounds. So I'm not worried about that. I seriously think that if you are getting a weapon to defend your house (not carry out into public), then nothing beats a shotgun, pistols are harder to aim (I'm not saying that you can't miss with a shotgun, it is easy to, especially in closer quarters where the shot won't spread much) and deliver only one projectile at a time compared to the 8 or more projectiles delivered by a shotgun.
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    I have a mossber 500, glock 19 and a a sig p226 in a .40. I think shotguns are good for home defense, but not as maneuverable as a hand gun. Also you need two hands for a shotgun while I can shoot my sig with one hand and have a flashlight in the other. You need to be careful when talking about muzzle velocity with a shotgun, because it all depends on the type of load you use. Birdshot may not even penetrate someone with a heavy leather jacket on. I load my shotgun with #1 buck, from what I've researched it penetrates well without over penetrating.
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    I understand that point, which is why I like the loading idea a good friend of mine gave me. I will use a 20 guage Mossberg special purpose with a 6 shot capacity and speed-feed with 5 shots on the weak side of the reciver/stock. You should have the first 4 shots to come out be birdshot, the next two buckshot, the easiest two shots on the speed-feed be buckshot as well, and the last three be rifled slugs. This allows for a lot of options when it comes to ammo. I'm planning on loading all six as birdshot, with three buck and two slugs carried externally since I live in an apartment with thin walls.

    ManBeast
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