Surrrreee Islam is peaceful.

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    Surrrreee Islam is peaceful.


    <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">I know this will be controversial. I also want it to be made clear that I am not talking about individuals but rather about an ideology. It is blatant, willing, ignorance to pretend like Islam does not promote violence. With that said, look at the following picture. This is the ideology that is the fuel behind the enemies of the United States. They start the indoctrination from childhood…..very scary!</SPAN>

    Here is the link so that no one thinks I am making this up.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...170/3i5ek.html

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    stupid ****ing kids.
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    Kid's emulate what they are taught. That mother should be hung in the streets for acutally helping her kid bloody himself why he chants death to America and Israel.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    Kid's emulate what they are taught. That mother should be hung in the streets for acutally helping her kid bloody himself why he chants death to America and Israel.

    I couldn't agree with you more.&nbsp; **** hanging, stone her to death.

    &nbsp;

    h19
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    Let me also say, preemptively, that I know that not ALL Muslims act like this, at least not here. But in the Middle East it is not the exception but the rule.
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    Islam is, at it's core, a peacewful religion. The zealots have twisted and interpreted it to mean what they think it means. Death to Jews and non-believers has become the common belief. All this sentiment revolves around land. Land that was promised the Jews from the bible. This has gone back now 2000 years, with Islam being slightly younger than this. So, the fanatics have taken this proverbial ball and run with it. The Jew have been persecuted since Moses led them throught the Red Sea, muslims have just done it longer.
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    Here are the pics:

    "Shiite Muslim men cut their heads with swords during the annual ritual to mark Ashoura Day in the southern Lebanese town of Nabatiyeh, on Thursday March 13, 2003. Hundreds of Shiites in south Lebanon marked the 7th century killing of their most revered saint Imam Hussein, by slashing their heads with blades on the occasion known as Ashoura. Al Hussein was a grandson of Islam's Prophet Mohammed and is a symbol of martydrom for Shiite Muslims. (AP Photo/Mohammed Zaatari) "
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    Another....

    "A Lebanese Shi'ite Muslim mother helps her son beat himself with a sword during a ceremony of Ashoura held in Nabatiyeh, March 13, 2003. Shiites in Lebanon commemorate the killing of Imam Hussein, grandson of the Prophet Mohammed, by his ***** over 1,400 years ago. More than 150,000 Lebanese packed the streets of Beirut's southern suburbs on Thursday, chanting 'Death to America,death to Israel,' in a mass rally called by Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group. REUTERS/Jamal Saidi "
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    I have read enough passages from the Koran to agree with Jake. I believe however, that 90% of the world's muslims are peaceful, but there still exist passages in the Koran that state that infidels should die, and killers of said infidels receive merit in the next life. These passages are all a shi'ite muslim needs to vindicate a holy jihad.

    Of course, a westerner using the hardcore shi'ite muslims as a standard, would be comparable to the rest of the world thinking all Christians are like the snake-handling, cyanide-drinking Mountain Assembly Pentachostals found only in the rural Appalachia. A perfect example is the muslim who owns the BP gas station one block from my house. His store sold a $20,000,000 winning lottery ticket 2 years ago, and his commision was over $100,000. He said he was blessed by Allah with a wonderful wife and family, and great prosperity, and donated just about all of his winnings to 6 local Christian elementary schools.

    Then when the 9-11 disaster struck, the local rednecks broke out his windows, defaced his property, and threatened his family.
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    Originally posted by John Benz
    I have read enough passages from the Koran to agree with Jake. I believe however, that 90% of the world's muslims are peaceful, but there still exist passages in the Koran that state that infidels should die, and killers of said infidels receive merit in the next life. These passages are all a shi'ite muslim needs to vindicate a holy jihad.

    Of course, a westerner using the hardcore shi'ite muslims as a standard, would be comparable to the rest of the world thinking all Christians are like the snake-handling, cyanide-drinking Mountain Assembly Pentachostals found only in the rural Appalachia. A perfect example is the muslim who owns the BP gas station one block from my house. His store sold a $20,000,000 winning lottery ticket 2 years ago, and his commision was over $100,000. He said he was blessed by Allah with a wonderful wife and family, and great prosperity, and donated just about all of his winnings to 6 local Christian elementary schools.

    Then when the 9-11 disaster struck, the local rednecks broke out his windows, defaced his property, and threatened his family.
    it is a disgrace that those folks were treated that way in the wake of 9/11. Poor guy had nothing to do with it and apparently was just trying to do good. When I look at how the more Orthodox Muslim countries are being governed, supposedly in accordance with the Koran, where there's no tolerance and women are treated worse than cattle, that suggests to me that they think anyone who does not embrace Islam should be killed....
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    those are shiites. Most muslims would say they dont even practice islam properly.
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    Islam ain't so bad. Christianity ain't so bad either. Before getting too worked up about Islam give a thought to the Crusades or the radical anti-abortionist movement. Personally, I think it kinda stupid to follow any dogma. Were there a God that cared about man do you really think he'd let alot of the things that have happened happen?
    Just my thoughts.

    Hal
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    Guy's, nothing personal at all. But I don't believe that Islam, fundamentally, is a peaceful religion.&nbsp;The Koran and&nbsp;the Old and&nbsp;New Testaments though similar in history are very different at their core.&nbsp;Anytime ANY human is degraded or mistreated with no just cause it is deep injustice. But there are not just a few hundred or even just a few thousand&nbsp;(which would classify the&nbsp;extreme anti-abortion groups numbers, which BTW is no more similar to Christianity than the Ku Klux Klan is) but there are tens of thousands of Muslims who follow militant Muslim practices.

    They are the largest militant group (non-military/religious based)&nbsp;of any kind in the world. Their Clerics teach the most violent, anti-anythingnotmuslim doctrines that have ever been heard. Not to just a few kooks (like Benz's snake handlers) but to tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands(it's hard to gauge at this point). There is NO comparison and this is not about one religion vs. another. This&nbsp;is about what Islam&nbsp;IS and what it is BECOMING.&nbsp;

    Obviously there are&nbsp;many&nbsp;muslim today who don't practice Islam&nbsp;with violence but there is coming a day when they will be the minority in their own religion and, like other religions before them, if the old school will not comply with the new school, then the new will ostracize the old until they are but a memory what was, not what is.
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    I disagree, Muslim is essentially a peaceful religion. However there are admittedly provisions in to Koran that can be interpreted violently. Sadly, there are those that have chosen to interpret the Koran as calling for violence and so there are such problems as we see today. With a little creative interpretation the bible can be read the same way.
    I really doubt that if there is a God that he/she/it would condone allot of what is done is his/her/it's name.
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    All religions essentially have the same goal of spiritual enlightenment and eternal life. As with any religion, fundamentalists take things in their literal sense, instead of a spiritual or symbolic sense and get carried away with things.

    It has more to do with the environment they are brought up in than the religion in question.
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    Hal, for the sake of a healthy discussion (not personal in any way ) Can you show me factually how Islam is a peaceful religion and how the New Testament of the Bible is in any way, shape or form, truly "similiar" to the Koran. I'm not talking about people who blatantly take things out of context (in theology this is called the Falacy of Collapsed Context or an F.C.C. violation ) but that looking at what the text says litteraly, that you can not honestly see violence and hatred for the infidel in the Koran with out the contextual gymnastics that it would take to see that in the&nbsp;New Testament&nbsp;or for that matter&nbsp;any other major religions holy book.
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    A Shiite Muslim man holds his son as another man in the left slashes his head with a razor during the annual ritual to mark Ashoura Day in the southern Lebanese town of Nabatiyeh, on Thursday, March 13, 2003. Thousands of Shiites in south Lebanon marked the 7th century death of their most revered saint Imam Hussein, by slashing their heads with blades on the occasion known as Ashoura. Al Hussein was a grandson of Islam's Prophet Mohammed and is a symbol of martydrom for Shiite Muslims. People take their children to hairdresser who ritually slashes the children's forehead with a razor, and after the blood is spread by hitting the wound. (AP Photo/Mohammed Zaatari)
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    honestly....................

    &nbsp;

    THE POWER OF ALLAH COMPELS YOU THE POWER OF ALLAH COMPELS YOU....

    &nbsp;

    &nbsp;

    Allah say HIT YOURSELF!!! WITH A SWORD!!! ON THE HEAD!!!

    &nbsp;
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    Great Article. Take a few moments to read.

    By Chuck Morse

    As Americans we are steeped in republican values such as limited government, individual rights, and a separation of church and state. We traditionally view our neighbor with a live and let live attitude and, while we may not always approve, more often than not we tolerate our differences. This is why, with all our imperfections, and God knows we have many, we somehow hold together as the most genuinely diverse society ever known to man.

    As a result, we seem to have this almost myopic view of the rest of the world. We assume that all faiths, political as well as religious, are like ours, which tends to involve a personal relationship with a God whom we look to as the creator of our natural sovereign rights. We have trouble imagining a nation under the direct rule of clerics, or commissars, who interpret the will of God, or science, and use the muscular force of the state to carry out their interpretations.

    Our nation was born after a bloody revolution against a tyrannical British monarch, King George III. This experience imbued our founding generation with a respect for the sovereign rights of nations. America has often championed the cause of independence from Latin America in the nineteenth century to Europe during the World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, and Kuwait. We instinctively loathed European colonialism with its attempt to physically dominate the world. Likewise, we as a people rejected the maniacal new world order visions of both Nazism and Communism.

    While we've certainly had our share of imperialists operating in the inner reaches of our government and amongst a small segment of our most wealthy establishment, the American people have been notoriously opposed to world dominating schemes. It has never been an element of our religious or political faith. Our idea of utopia has always been to live in peace, under our proverbial fig tree, and leave our neighbor alone to peruse the same. Jefferson expressed this best when he noted in the Declaration of Independence that the truths we hold to be self-evident are "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

    The vast majority of Muslims who have settled in America have, thank God, adopted the same peaceful American faith that most of the rest of us have regardless of individual means of worshiping God or not worshiping as the case may be. The same cannot be said of the nations of the world which are presently dominated by religious Muslims. The religious Muslim movement, like Nazism and left-wing Communism before it, has seized the reigns of power in several sovereign states. Like the Nazi's and Communists, they are using that power to spread terror across the planet.

    The citizens of these Islamic states chafe under the same type of brutal authoritarianism and one party religious dictatorship as Europeans suffered under Nazism or that Chinese, Cubans or North Koreans under the brutal jackboot of left-wing Communism. The mobs coursing through the streets of Islamic cities chanting anti-American slogans are the same as the Nazi brown shirts looting Jewish businesses during Kristalnacht or Communists burning and looting American inner cities during the summer of love.

    Even though we may be loath to admit it, religious Islam clearly does contain seeds of violence of a type similar to that of its Nazi and Communist counterparts. Like their counterparts, Islam advocates war, or Jihad, as a means of conquering the non-Islamic world. Moderate Muslims have westernized the meaning of Jihad to mean peaceful personal struggle and this is a genuinely progressive development. Like the Nazis and Communists, however, the religious Muslims believe that world peace and happiness will be obtained under what they maintain is the only true faith. Like the Nazis and Communists, they believe that anything is permissible in the pursuit of this glorious goal including total subjugation of peoples and mass murder.

    Chuck Morse
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    That child above look like he understands that his religion is non-violent.....NOT!!!
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    Though I do not agree with all he says below as I do believe that Koran teaches at it's core hatred and destruction of the infidel, his grasp on the reality if Islam today is honest and sensible.

    A quote from Muhammad Farrukh Rafiq:

    "The aphorism "every muslim is a potential terrorist", in my opinion, contains a certain amount of truth. Islam written in the books is entirely different from Islam practiced in the street. The concepts and understandings of an ordinary muslim talking and walking in the streets of Karachi or Peshawar are same as that of a mis-guided missile. So, I think, controversy should not be over the nature of Written Islam it should be on the nature of Practiced Islam.

    Written Islam or Christianity or Judaism or any other faith is always humane and mild but the way these scripts filter down through the minds of ordinary people with the help of Mullahs is a point to ponder."
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    Quote from Metwalli:

    "Everyone is taught about Islam in a different way. There are those who are convinced that it's a religion of peace. Been there, made the same mistake. The more you learn, the clearer the picture becomes. The most common argument I've heard from my then fellow Muslims (Woke up and saw the light) is that Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. So was Malaria at some point in time. That's the thing about Islam, it's well written to suck people in, and then you're so deeply involved that you are blinded and shutout from the outside world. . . The problem ladies and gentlemen lies right here among us, not in the Mid-East. They're using our own resources and making wads of cash to send to the mid East for the "cause" right under our noses, and we still look the other way and continue to lie to ourselves about how they just wish to live among us like everyone else. Everyone else is not blowing us up from the inside out. Wake up and smell the explosives, people."
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    I love healthy discussion, and as long as I don't see any personal attacks I won't take anything personal. In fact, personally, I don't ascribe to any religion.
    Anyway, prior to posting specific quotations from either text I'll have to review each...it's been a while since I've either one (gimme some time). Although as you have alluded to...many quotation from the texts can be read to mean just about anything the reader wants.

    If I may read too much into either....
    I doubt Christ would support what is too often done in his name...and I doubt Mohammed would support what is too often done in his name.

    The curious thing with religious fanantism is that it is best fermented in those that have little or no hope of achieving success on Earth.
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    Originally posted by Hal

    If I may read too much into either....
    I doubt Christ would support what is too often done in his name...and I doubt Mohammed would support what is too often done in his name.&nbsp;
    Agreed Hal.
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    Although, I'm not entirely sure Mohammed would not privately support at least some of the things. He did pen the words that are at times very violent in nature.
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    Now if only we could get everyone else to agree.
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    Windwords....while I can easily see the American viewpoint that Islam is a violent religion I have to disagree. I have done a lot of studying and research on Islamic history (contemporary and ancient) as well as religious history in general and see Islam as very similar to Christianity and Judaism. Look at Christian history for example. Most people will agree that Christianity is a peaceful, pacifistic religion, yet the episodes of Christian violence: the Crusades, the Wars of Religion, the Inquisition, Northern Ireland show that despite one's belief, practice might be very different. Secondly, like someone already mentioned, those pictures were of Shi'ite muslims. Outside of Iran, they are a small minority. Thirdly, similar (though not to the same extent) Islam is not an entirely unified religion. In fact, there are five major schools of Islam based on the teachings of five different doctors of the faith. Unfortunately, due to increased American and European Imperialism as well as other factors the Hanbalism school developed by Ibn-Hanbal and Ibn-Taymiyya became increasingly popular. This was further increased by Abdalwahhâb, creating Hanbalite Wahhabism which is the major cause of religious aggression against the United States. Yet up until the last fifty years or so, Hanbalism was the extreme minority or fringe of traditional Islamic belief. Anyways...just a thought, sorry for the ramblings.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    Even though we may be loath to admit it, religious Islam clearly does contain seeds of violence of a type similar to that of its Nazi and Communist counterparts.
    This is like comparing apples to oranges. Political theology and religion have no comparison.
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    Originally posted by pogue


    This is like comparing apples to oranges. Political theology and religion have no comparison.
    They do when one is used to influnce the other. That's basic history. This has been so prominent in history that the founding fathers of this nation wrote the permanant seperation of church and state into the constitution. Remeber the Dark Ages and the Catholic Church?
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    Thanks for the contributions Scotty.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    They do when one is used to influnce the other. That's basic history. This has been so prominent in history that the founding fathers of this nation wrote the permanant seperation of church and state into the constitution. Remeber the Dark Ages and the Catholic Church?
    Regardless, both Communism and Nazism have strict anti-religious doctirines. Their potential towards violence has no specifics towards Islam. Political theory does not define religion, even though religion might sometimes shape governments.

    It still says "In God we Trust" on our money.

    All I'm saying is that its a poor comparision.
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    The reason why some muslims are extreme is because they are behind the times. We should really call all Christians "moderate" Christians, because they don't lop off eachothers limbs like was done during the black plague. All of this type of stuff was done with Christians up until 100 years ago.. which leads me to believe that the countries where this Islamic extremism is coming from must be modernized if you want to see any change in the way they intrepret their religions
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    Religious fanatisism seems to be corellated to education.
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    which is perhaps the main reason the medieval world was utterly controlled and manipulated by the church... I agree Hal

    if you are pre-emtively forbidden to individually investigate the truth, then the middle men (clergy) obviously have distinct control and can distort/extort as they see fit
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    Right, if you're life sucks...and there is no way you can escape your life...you buy into a religion
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    I like to start threads like this, as they generally stimulate intellgent conversation, and we've had some good convo so far. That said, I'm a little dissapointed by the lack of willingness of people here to concede that there are more than just a small minority of Muslims who embody the mentality that we saw grossly demonstrated on Sept. 11th. I even posted other Muslims comments who agree with me more than any of you have! Interesting to say the least.
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    BTW, Hal I do not think that that is why most people pursue a spiritual life. There is a big difference between a religiousl system and the acknoweldgement of a spiritual side of our being.
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    "More than 150,000 Lebanese packed the streets of Beirut's southern suburbs on Thursday, chanting 'Death to America,death to Israel,' in a mass rally called by Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group." From the article above. That's 150,000 in just one town. More than just a small minority.
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    Don't mention it WW...always am reading posts on this site but usually post mainly on other boards.


    Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
    The reason why some muslims are extreme is because they are behind the times. We should really call all Christians &quot;moderate&quot; Christians, because they don't lop off eachothers limbs like was done during the black plague. All of this type of stuff was done with Christians up until 100 years ago.. which leads me to believe that the countries where this Islamic extremism is coming from must be modernized if you want to see any change in the way they intrepret their religions
    I'd say this is pretty accurate yet your approaching this with a strong modernist bias. Muslim extremists are "acting out" because their traditional way of life is being challenged (whether rightly or wrongly) and in extremist movements they have found a means to influence these changes. A good read is Jihad vs. McWorld, however it only briefly glosses the surface of the entire Christian/Muslim worldviews. For modern analysis Thomas Friedman is unparalleled.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    &quot;More than 150,000 Lebanese packed the streets of Beirut's southern suburbs on Thursday, chanting 'Death to America,death to Israel,' in a mass rally called by Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group.&quot; From the article above. That's 150,000 in just one town. More than just a small minority.
    Also, you are right. What began as a small minority movement has gained tremendous popular support among the common people. In Saudi Arabia alone, where the government is one of the most strongly pro-American forces in the Middle East, the common people are becoming more and more anti-American. This is primarily due to the violent rhetoric taught in the common religious schools, yet also from the way America (especially W) has handled itself in recent Middle Eastern affairs.
  

  
 

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