Lifting for size??????
- 10-29-2002, 06:11 PM
Lifting for size??????
Ok there is so many different ways of lifting. So many different opinions... From what I have always read and always though is that for SIZE you usually go around 5-8 reps.... Is this way off... Sometmes I will go 8-10 for 2 weeks and 4-6 for a little or 6-8 for a little. Which is the best for size.
To be honest I really care more about size than strength....
Let me know what you guys think. Am I wrong or just stupid... Talk to ya... Now watchout that question was loade. Watch where you shoot...hehehehe. talk to ya
- 10-29-2002, 06:14 PM
Lifting for mass requires you to put as much stress on the muscle tissue as possible. In order to do this youm ust lift enough weight where you can only do better 6-8 reps. 10 reps probably isnt that bad. I prefer 6 for mass myself. The key is stressing the muscles as far as you can, and then "babying" the muscle with protein, much needed carbs and rest for it to grow, hence size.
- 10-29-2002, 06:17 PM
What about failure?????? Talk to ya
10-29-2002, 06:26 PM
I personally do not lift to failure because of the dangers involved, especially if you lift alone like I do. Lifting to failure requires the muscle to be stressed until it can not handle it anymore (duh) so then other muscles kick in, muscles that arent used to such stress and thats dangerous, as well as the momentum that is involved with getting the weight back where you want it....
Most large muscles we train are considered slow twitch muscle fibers or red fibers. These muscles in order to stress to the point of growth require slow, controlled reps to shock them into growing. Take your calves for example, any where you walk, run, bike, hell even drive requires constant use of that muscle. Now when training it, you do not want to slap 200lbs on your shoulders and do speed calves raises, this is not as much stress on your calves and doing relaxed, heavy slow reps. You have to sort of play mind games with your muscles, if it used frequently (abs also) you must come up with a new variation to force them into growth. These muscles are prefer oxidation metabolism and have a high endurance and low fatigue factor. Other muscles such as say the soleus (under the calf) uses glycolysis to metabolize and has a HUGE capability of hypertrophy. Although fatigued easily doesnt take much for this muscle to grow and having a large, well rounded soleus gives the appearance of great, thick calves. So dont neglect them!
10-29-2002, 06:29 PM
I have always lifted to failure. I have also always had a patner. Basically when I go to failure it is maybe the spotter helping me 10% on the last rep... Is that ok or should I try a no failure for awhile? Talk to ya..
10-29-2002, 06:33 PM
If that method works for you, ny all means continue...I dont know everything nor claim to, Im just making suggestions based on experience and science...everyone's body is different, I never liked going to failure, doesnt mean it doesnt work...if you gains become slow or almost seems they stopped, switch it up, the hey is to not let your muscles become used to the say stress over and over.
10-29-2002, 06:35 PM
Gotcha.. Cool thanx YJ.. Talk to ya..
10-29-2002, 09:32 PM
for overall developement, i strongly believe that a variety of ranges used is best. (thats mostly from personal experience) for shear size and less focus on strength...well, i think thats impossible. when working a muscle group for size (which i believe you got right with the 5-8 reps), your strength has to go up. endurance is sacrificed when going low to mid reps but strength and size i think goes together. the best gains ive gotten for shear size, definetely has been keeping my weights high, reps low (5-6)
10-29-2002, 10:36 PM
Good question Curt
This question has always been on the back of my mind - and it's one of those things in my workout regime, that I'm never too sure about.
I train every set to failure, aiming to fail in the 5 - 8 rep range. I keep my form as strict as possible, using a 2-1-2-0 motion. (2 seconds up, 1 second hold, 2 seconds down, 0 seconds wait). If I fail on the 9th or 10th rep for a particular set, I up the weights for the same set next week... that's how I do the whole "progressive overload" principle.
However, with the lower rep range I wonder if the actual volume of stress on the muscle is optimal for growth. I mean is 200lbs x 6, better than 180lbs x 9, for muscle hypertrophy ? Not sure, but my current regime seems to be working well. Perhaps once it stops giving me gains, I'll change up to the higher rep scheme to break plateau.
10-29-2002, 10:53 PM
Purely for SIZE, with no regard to strength, I follow a personally modified version of HST. I believe strongly in the principles of progressive overload, and that failure is not necessary, though it will play a useful role in keeping the weight progressing, as well as a little shock value.
I think a balanced training system, involving varied numbers of reps, exercises, and ending intensities(several reps short of failure vs right at failure, vs maybe an extra set w/ negatives) is the best way to go. I can't seem to find the article, but I do remember reading on www.cyberpump.com awhile back, a fantastic article on deciding which rep schemes work best for an individual.
Of course, my decision on how I modify the workout regime is based on a number of factors, but mostly what type of workout I did previously, and whether I'm "on" or not. For example, I'm currently following a half-hardgainer/super squat routine, with a little more frequency and other changes, which I will continue through my next "on" cycle while only altering my volume.
10-29-2002, 11:49 PM
I too, have started using HST style training. So far, I like it. I am on my 2nd cycle but modified it (more 2 week microcycles; 15, 12, 10, 8, 5, Neg) to allow for a cutting cycle to end right before I hit the beach in Jamaica.
10-30-2002, 10:52 PM
- 5'7" 202 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
aww curt if you work out with a partner (or get one every other or 3 weeks) and do the PUSH workout. you take your max, say 200. you do 5 reps of 175, 4 reps with 185, 3 on 195 and 1 rep of 205 (5lbs more than max). each rep your partner helps you lift. do these every few weeks and you can modify this a little if you want. its awsome for building mass man i love it.
but ya i usually do 5-7 reps for mass, 7-10 reps for cutting.
talk to ya (curt is thinking... ... my saying)
10-30-2002, 11:29 PM
I stick with 6-8 reps, but I train to failure with each set, 2-3 per exercise.
But, I train extremely slow when doing reps, paused at the bottom for a second, slowly up, contracted for a few, slowly down.
I emphasize the motion of the exercise picturing each muscle i'm working contracting and Growing...haha
then I come home and don't feel like doing any homework, so I hang out on the boards.
11-04-2002, 02:08 AM
I have been lifting 15, 12, 10 and 8 on lower body with the 15 as a warmup and 12, 10, 8 and 6 on upper with the 12 as a warmup. I try to make the last two sets almost impossible to finish. I only have a spotter sometimes so I have to time my workout accordingly. In other words, I make sure I am working out with someone on bench or squat. Later.
11-04-2002, 02:11 AM
Forgot to mention that, with this lifting cadence, I have been seeing some pretty amazing growth but I'm sure alot of that is because I have been lifting for only six months so far. In that time my arms have increased 3" to 17", my chest has gone from 39 to 42.5" and my thighd have gone from 22 to 25. I'm looking forward to what this cycle, my first, will do for my growth.
11-04-2002, 04:56 PM
- 5'9" 200 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
I always feel I grow better(size) when I do higher reps..... I feel more blood flowing in the muscle and I get better pumps. Like some have already said, I think low and high reps go together. Mix them up at different times. Each person will respond different and you have to find out what works best for you!
11-06-2002, 01:28 AM
One thing about going to failure, when you do, you are using every possible muscle fiber you got. You are getting the maximum stimulation and by doing that, you will grow. When bulking, I try to have my set fail between 3 and 6. I take every set to failure as possible with slow and controlled movements to avoid any injury. Six years of lifting, but still no injuries for me. Works for me.
11-06-2002, 02:48 AM
it would be beneficial to see some pics so we can tell you how to train better
11-06-2002, 11:20 AM
here is something if you really like that lactic acid burn
try never to take tension aff the muscle ie in curls let the muscle relax. I see this every day so it is not a bad thing just in my opinion a waste of time. Anyway try to never let the muscle rest what so ever in the proper range of motion now this might look shorter than you are used to ie bicep might only nove a foot or less in order to keep tension. But the key is tension on the muscle that is what a true repvs set is. so if you rest no tension on the muscle which i see a lot of big guys do you are actually doing 30 sets of 1 rep understand. Ok now here is a physiology lesson in most exersises there are 4 parts some only three but not to worry. there is a positive, negative and an isometric peak and isometric stretch. here is one of those places were i feel most people because of gym science screw up. you see people alll the time squeezing the isometric peak because usually that is the posing position in the exersise and yes some blood rushes in but it is very negledgeable s far as quality. you need to flex were the actins and myocins are at there strongest point guess what it is at the longest point of the muscle ie the isometric stretch. this sounds a lttle like science sorry but you have to understand what the muscle is doing in order to understand how to shock it as YJ said earlier.so just try this today grab 2 dumbells like you are doing curls use about 75% of what you normally would use this is important you will see if you are doing it right. do double movements ie both arms at the same time. start the exersise were you feel the muscle start feeling the weight this is usually about a little bend in the elbow that is your bottom point remember you have to feel the weight in the bicep and not just hanging around your waist. go up until the tension starts going away in the motion about 90 degrees is usually it could be a little more could be a little less. that is the stopping point at the top or the ispometric flex postion. now go back down and when you get to the first position were the weight stays on the biceps but there is no movement that is the isometric stretch try flexing there now on bis it is a little easyier but on some exersises it is hard to figure it out it takes some mind work. ie at the top of the tri pushdown no thte bottom or the bottom of a squat not the top. by the way if you plan to do this on squats your rnge of motion should be till were your lordadic curve is released have someon stand behind you it could be parrel or b4 or after it has nothing to do with muscle it is safty there and flex there **** son use less weight or you will be fried in 2 reps trust me. now when you get through with this set you should feel intence burning in the muscles that is lactic acid not to worry your body has defence systems that will stop this burning after a couple of weeks but you have to build it up. also your rep range should be in the 5-7 range in this you wont be able to bear it after that the muscle just cant handle the pain.
side note there is no way to build muscle in a gym it is only to fatigue it. lbs dont matter at all the whole concept of short rep range versus high does not really matter except in heart rate but after doing it this way your heart should be racing because the muscle gets absolutly no rest in the set. the only way to increase muscle is in the nutrients that are taken in after the muscle is stressed. The common idiology that you are building muscle cells is scientifically imposable unless you are usiong some sort of dna to do so. so you have a certain amount of fibers that is all and you need to recruit more of them to be used and abused. this in turn will let more of them be blitzedin the session. ah motor units recrrutment is what does this but that is another paper. in short flexing at the isometric stretch does this so give it time it will blow your mind. so through your ego away for a while and just try this out it wont hurt if you do it right it is scientifically the best way to work out now mind you that does not work always but just see if it works for you. feel the burn and you will be writing me going what the hell are you doing to your clients. I abuse them this way you will see lactic acid is your friend.
sorry so long
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